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Mary Lambert

Has anyone in an Ace/Allo Relationship ever cheated?

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SusannaC

It is hard to say what person brings to a conversation like this, from past personal events and experiences.  We are all entitled to our own opinions, too. One reason why I’m here, on this forum, is to learn from others, see other perspectives, and find some comfort in the fact that I’m not alone in this strange relationship.  Prior to marriage, I had no idea that Asexuality existed..so with knowledge comes growth 

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uhtred
6 hours ago, gisiebob said:

 

what would you like to be called then, a saint? calling someone who surreptitiously breaks the trust of a compaionship for their own individual purposes a cheater is factual, fair's got nothing to do with it.

Not so sure. If we accept that it is OK for people to not have sex in a relationship, why is it fundamentally different to accept that people who are denied sex in a marriage can go outside of the marriage.

 

I'm not saying its obviously true, but I don't see it as inconsistent.  Isn't it all part  of recognizing the great variety of human interests and needs with respect to sex?

 

We don't typically tell an asexual person that they must either have sex that they don't want, or divorce.  Is it fair to tell a sexual person that they  must either divorce or go celibate? 

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InariYana

For me cheating is simply being a coward. Sorry, just my opinion. I don't see it as morally wrong or anything, just pure big time cowardice. 

Be brave an openly say to your partner - I need to do this and that's the plan. I'm attracted to this person and I'm going to have sex with them. Then wait for the outcome. Your partner may understand and accept, or may hate you and kick you of their life. Tough call, but this way there are no lies or secrets involved. 

 

Many cheats are just too comfy in their lives to risk them and be open with their partner about it. If my ex husband was open with me he would have been out of my life sooner. I was one of those compromising aces, but still - that wasn't enough. 

 

Then again, many sexual people cheat on their sexual partners and the reasons can be such as "well, she was heavily pregnant and not interested in sex" (how F**ing bad is that?), "neighbour was so sexy and inviting", "I was bored", "he got a bit chubby and I wasn't attracted to him any longer"... all these reasons to me are like a never-ending   facepalm session. At least "I wasn't getting any sex and they didn't want to open the relationship" sounds like a bit of a better excuse.   

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, InariYana said:

"I wasn't getting any sex and they didn't want to open the relationship"

It's not about not 'getting' any sex, as though they weren't getting any ice-cream. It's about the level of intimacy with another person that comes with sex being missing from the relationship, and therefore, their life.

 

I know this wasn't your main point, but it does illustrate a fundamental difference in how sexuals and asexuals understand sex.

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cbc

Unless ice cream becomes a vital part of what the majority of human beings are hardwired to need in order to feel emotionally and psychologically fulfilled in life, yeah, there's no real way to bridge that gap in understanding.

 

I was just having more or less that conversation last night, actually. I described it as "I feel human". It's not about... I don't know, getting off or whatever. It's having that dynamic with someone, a dynamic that's completely exclusive to a reciprocal sexual relationship. Given that I also had minimal relationship experience before making the (fairly poor) decision to get married, I had never properly experienced that dynamic with anyone, and it's... yeah, there just really isn't a way to describe to asexuals the difference that that type of connection and intimacy can make in your life as a whole. I really don't think my "I feel human" is an overstatement. So I'm not inclined to feel too badly about something that greatly improves my emotional and psychological wellbeing. It's invaluable to me.

 

Life is short, and complicated, and we all fuck up somehow anyway; might as well make it worth it.

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Telecaster68
11 minutes ago, CBC said:

we all fuck up somehow anyway; might as well make it worth it

I want that on a t shirt.

 

Including the semicolon.

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SusannaC

So Very true!  That resonates with me in many ways.  Having that intimate connection is unlike any other connection, and does make me feel human!  Can’t get that any other way, Lord knows I’ve tried.   I also had almost no relationship experience too, when I decided to marry. I wonder at how that played into my choice to commit to someone with an asexual nature.  

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Telecaster68
12 minutes ago, CBC said:

there just really isn't a way to describe to asexuals the difference that that type of connection and intimacy can make in your life as a whole. I really don't think my "I feel human" is an overstatement.

Here's one of the things I wonder about, and you might have some insight on.

 

Do you think that 'extra level' (one former asexual described it as having an extra gear) is something that asexuals don't have? Or do they just not know they have it? Or do you think for some, they do actually get that extra level through other means?

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cbc

First off, shit, I want that on a T-shirt now too. Or a mug. I have an obnoxious mug collection haha. And the semicolon is definitely important! 

 

I think if someone is actually asexual, they very likely don't have it, no. Lengthy discussions with my husband and stuff I've read here lead me to believe it simply isn't a thing that exists for asexual folks. Describing it draws a blank. And I haven't seen a single asexual person describe what sounds like the feeling one gets from a reciprocal sexual relationship, like in terms of something they're getting elsewhere. That thread not that long about about... I dunno, euphoria or ecstasy or whatever it was... highlighted that pretty clearly. I know what all sorts of other types of satisfaction and enjoyment feel like, just like asexuals were describing in that thread, and they're still not the same thing, wonderful and fulfilling as they may be.

 

With that said... given that I believe many self-identified asexuals are people dealing with other stuff that's affecting how they connect to and express their sexuality, I assume those people likely possess this "extra gear" and are unaware.

 

 

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Telecaster68

I agree.

 

Glad we've got that issue sorted out then.

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Mary Lambert
12 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Do you think that 'extra level' (one former asexual described it as having an extra gear) is something that asexuals don't have? Or do they just not know they have it? Or do you think for some, they do actually get that extra level through other means?

I don't know, Tele, all I can say, is my husband is so awkward in this area. He seems like such a normal guy everywhere else, but it's obvious something is seriously missing. I mean it's a no brainer, if you cannot feel sexual attraction it is like some sort of blindness. 

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cbc
34 minutes ago, SusannaC said:

 I also had almost no relationship experience too, when I decided to marry. I wonder at how that played into my choice to commit to someone with an asexual nature.  

Same, very much so. I had minimal experience and was very unsure of my sexuality, and I became close with someone who clearly cared about me and wasn't going to put any pressure on me, and it was fairly easy to set up a life together. We joked that we were an "old married couple" within months of living together. I already assumed I wasn't exactly asexual (he was open to sex, but that didn't go very well at all), and figured I was likely bi, but I naively expected that stuff to stop mattering with time. It didn't, it got worse and I just got more confused. The thing about being gay rather than bi... I tried to ignore and hide that, and it made me feel like a crazy person. Someone else completely upended my world a few years ago by expressing interest in me, and it was terrifying and very stressful because it made me face certain truths, but oh my god it was worth it.

 

But yes, I'm sure my lack of experience certainly contributed to me hastily deciding to marry someone who's not only asexual, but also not even my preferred sex/gender. I think I assumed compatible personalities and someone showing me kindness and care were all that mattered.

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cbc
11 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I agree.

 

Glad we've got that issue sorted out then.

Well done us. :D 

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Telecaster68

I wasn't that inexperienced in relationships - I'd had a few short term ones, and one long term one - but I wasn't experienced enough to know that the slight 'offness' with my wife's sexuality wasn't going to get better. I also have some childhood shit that meant I was very bad at understanding what I needed and being okay with asking for it. With a bit more experience and assertiveness, I think I might've bailed early on.

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ryn2
3 minutes ago, CBC said:

But yes, I'm sure my lack of experience certainly contributed to me hastily deciding to marry someone who's not only asexual, but also not even my preferred sex. I think I assumed compatible personalities and someone showing me kindness and care were all that mattered.

I think this is what happened to my husband (less, according to him, the preferred gender part).

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cbc
1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

also have some childhood shit that meant I was very bad at understanding what I needed and being okay with asking for it.

Ohhh yes, familiar theme for me as well. I'm still pretty terrible at that.

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, CBC said:

Ohhh yes, familiar theme for me as well. I'm still pretty terrible at that.

Spoiler: turns out if you ask people nicely, they're generally fine with it. Who knew?

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cbc
2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Spoiler: turns out if you ask people nicely, they're generally fine with it. Who knew?

Indeed. I wish someone had told me that when I was about five; could've saved me a lot of trouble.

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Telecaster68

Based on my experience up to that point, I don't think I'd have believed it.

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cbc

You know, I was thinking exactly that. I don't think you learn that by someone telling you... it's more an experiential thing. Some of us take a while to learn it, I suppose.

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Mary Lambert
2 hours ago, InariYana said:

For me cheating is simply being a coward. Sorry, just my opinion. I don't see it as morally wrong or anything, just pure big time cowardice. 

I used to think this way, until my life changed when I married and Ace. Its amazing how our opinions change when our circumstance change. Seeing life through the eyes of someone else is interesting to say the least. And the reason why, I say this if it is not painfully obvious, is that I am not willing to destroy what I worked so hard to build. I gave my years and my body (gave birth) to build this family. My girls are doing well and that is the most important thing to me. I will not have them die on the vine because of a divorce. And yes, kids are resilient and yes they will get over it. Well will they? My oldest was suicidal and my youngest got into a heap of trouble when I was ready to end it. Since then we reconciled and kids are doing great. So I tried to be honest about wanting something outside the relationship,  he died on the vine and our house  was cold. So if I decide to give up a portion of my happiness for a while, I don't  think it's too much to ask to later have a life outside my marriage and no one needs to know. Just my opinion. 

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cbc

Ok so get on with it then, Mary. Go find someone.

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SusannaC

I agree with the concerns you have Mary... I worry about my boys too. My oldest is bipolar and has thrived with a close supportive family.  He is still emotionally a bit immature, but is doing so well!  How can I rock his world, and my younger son’s, with a selfish need to leave?  They have no clue about this stuff, of course.  When is an appropriate time?  What would I say to them?  Ugh... these are questions for which I have no good answer.  However, life seems to move along WAY too fast- where have all the years gone?!  I just keep thinking I have already spent sooo many years living without....& as some of us have talked about,  “ I want to feel human”!  For me, a sexual relationship is vital towards achieving that goal.

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Serran
3 minutes ago, SusannaC said:

I agree with the concerns you have Mary... I worry about my boys too. My oldest is bipolar and has thrived with a close supportive family.  He is still emotionally a bit immature, but is doing so well!  How can I rock his world, and my younger son’s, with a selfish need to leave?  They have no clue about this stuff, of course.  When is an appropriate time?  What would I say to them?  Ugh... these are questions for which I have no good answer.  However, life seems to move along WAY too fast- where have all the years gone?!  I just keep thinking I have already spent sooo many years living without....& as some of us have talked about,  “ I want to feel human”!  For me, a sexual relationship is vital towards achieving that goal.

There isn't really a need for him to lose the emotional support if you two split amicably. If you and your spouse can remain friendly, at least as far as parenting your kids, then your kids will not lose much. It'll be an adjustment at first, but as someone who has divorced parents, I would rather my parents be happy than staying together miserable because of me, from an emotional well being standpoint. The kind of guilt kids can feel when they learn their parents were miserable and they were the reason isn't good on them either. 

 

Edit: To add, therapists can help a couple split with the least damage to their kids, if it comes to that. 

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SusannaC

Thank you

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uhtred
4 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Here's one of the things I wonder about, and you might have some insight on.

 

Do you think that 'extra level' (one former asexual described it as having an extra gear) is something that asexuals don't have? Or do they just not know they have it? Or do you think for some, they do actually get that extra level through other means?

Its really difficult to tell.  Even the same person's feelings might be very different if say their lack of interest were caused by a hormone imbalance. 

 

My guess from these discussions is that asexuals don't experience anything like what sexuals feel from sex with a loving partner, but its sort of like asking if blue looks the same to them as it does to me. 

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InariYana
1 hour ago, Serran said:

There isn't really a need for him to lose the emotional support if you two split amicably. If you and your spouse can remain friendly, at least as far as parenting your kids, then your kids will not lose much. It'll be an adjustment at first, but as someone who has divorced parents, I would rather my parents be happy than staying together miserable because of me, from an emotional well being standpoint. The kind of guilt kids can feel when they learn their parents were miserable and they were the reason isn't good on them either. 

 

Edit: To add, therapists can help a couple split with the least damage to their kids, if it comes to that. 

This is very true and yes, it can be done in a mature, civilised way, when both sides come to an agreement (ideally some form of co-parenting) and nobody loses contact with their child. When me and my daughter talk about the past she has memories of me and my ex being still married and us both just being totally miserable. Children can feel it very well, but are terrified to ask any questions. Even if there are no hurtful words spoken, no fights, there's unnatural silence and tension. They can sense some kind of deep disconnection between the adults.  

 

I remember my daughter saying twice that she's happy (yes, she used the word 'happy') that me and her dad split up and went our separate ways. She said me and him are so different and we could never be a good match for each other. She has friends whose parents fight, break up, go back together again, fight again, then ignore the other and play all sorts of nasty little games but won't split up and she can't understand why. This really brought me to tears of... relief, the fact that she - just out of the blue - wanted to talk about it and said I made the right decision. 

 

My ex is happier now, I'm happier. My daughter has a close bond with each parent, which is easy to maintain as we live in the same city and maybe a 15min drive apart. Life goes on :)       

 

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Nidwin
19 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Here's one of the things I wonder about, and you might have some insight on.

 

Do you think that 'extra level' (one former asexual described it as having an extra gear) is something that asexuals don't have? Or do they just not know they have it? Or do you think for some, they do actually get that extra level through other means?

 

Don't have is the correct answer here Tele. And in my case you can also add, doesn't have the romantic extra level or gear, too.

I've no idea if I can get that extra level through other means as I've no clue what that extra sexual or romantic level is.

 

On a different subject but it relates in some way to your question. I've no idea if you could even be able to experience the "tingles" and discover, learn to enjoy that astonishing experience or if you have other means to experience something similar. Hot chili peppers or a strong whisky could make your lips tingle but the "tingles" is the ability to fully control at will and provoke those tingles through thought anywhere on your skin. And that's only the beginning of the "tingles" path.

 

I could partake in sex, sort of at least, but it won't or simply can't be the same as for you Tele and all other sexual folks out there.

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SusannaC

I don’t think the “tingles” is a voluntary reaction for sexual people, at least not for me. Does that mean we do have “extra gear” as you call it, hardwired into us?  I am curious about how commonly asexual people feel repulsed by the idea of sex.  Or is it more common for asexuals to just feel disinterest in the idea?  -I’m sure I’ll never get a straight answer from my spouse. Was discussing asexuality with someone yesterday and the issue of hormonal imbalance was brought up..do low testosterone and estrogen play a significant role for this lack of interest in sex in those people who identify as asexual? Any thoughts? 

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SusannaC

I want to add that in theory, hormonal imbalance could play a significant role... and this person, a health care provider, suggested that it did play a large role for many people.  Doesn’t seem like that’s the only factor involved, but could it play a role?  Would be an interesting study.

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