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Sad Gray Ace

Sexual Husband wants more

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ryn2

Makes sense.  I see people here talking in absolutes but it’s likely what applies to some doesn’t apply equally to all.

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vega57
43 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Does anyone have thoughts on why - assuming no sex repulsion - compromising is workable for some couples and not for others?  Are there characteristics of one or both parties that make it more or less likely to work? 

I think it depends on the individuals and the other qualities and characteristics that they bring into the relationship.   

 

Compromise doesn't exist in a vacuum.  We might be able to compromise with one person more than with another.  Simply depends on the people involved and the situation at hand.  

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Serran
49 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Does anyone have thoughts on why - assuming no sex repulsion - compromising is workable for some couples and not for others?  Are there characteristics of one or both parties that make it more or less likely to work? 

My guess is lots of variable involved. 

 

If the rest of the relationship is super compatible and happy and there is not as much need to compromise in other areas, someone may be more willing to give in this one, as they are not expelling energy on other incompatibilities. 

 

If the sexual isn't that bothered by what they do, then it's easier to find something that works. 

 

If the asexual is not drained by sexual activities much, or can even enjoy them, then it's easier.

 

If both parties are good at communication, then it's easier to figure out how each feels. 

 

Etc, etc, etc.

 

For me, for example, I could not handle a relationship that needed regular PiV, oral or anal sex. However, manual stimulation, sexy photos, etc are all fine and even enjoyable. I don't count myself as asexual, but I also could not be compatible with many sexuals. So, my dating pool is rather limited. Luckily, I'm marrying someone I am compatible with, so we don't have to compromise as much as stop being too scared to ask each other because we both have had unhealthy "compromises" in the past and don't want to make the other feel obligated to anything. 

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Sally
30 minutes ago, Serran said:

If the asexual is not drained by sexual activities much, or can even enjoy them, then it's easier.

 

That's very important.   Sex is unlike other activities because it involves someone else's access to your own body.  For sexuals, that's usually very pleasant (to put it mildly).  For asexuals, since they usually don't find sex pleasant, it can feel extremely invasive.  Also, compromise that works for the asexual for some time can get more unpleasant as time goes on.  Thus, the viability of a relationship that needs compromise generally lessens over time.  It certainly did for me.  

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James121
14 hours ago, Serran said:

People can't just "give the green light" on that if they are not OK with it.

The problem with this statement is that in not giving a green light,  you essentially do give the green light.......to yourself.

I wont entertain this idea and facilitate my partner because I want to facilitate myself.

And that’s what a lot of the problem is here. In many cases it’s about someone wanting it their way with no wriggle room whatsoever.

Most people who refuse the green light don’t even ‘try on the pants’. They simply don’t like the idea so they rule it out as rubbish. I appreciate that may not have been the case in your relationship.

 

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ryn2

Unfortunately it’s the kind of thing you can’t “test drive”; if one party tries it out and either ends up being really not okay with it, there’s no way to go back to a place where it wasn’t yet done.

 

That means you pretty much have to be okay ending the relationship before you try it... and often being okay with ending the relationship means the decision to do so has already been made.

 

Regarding fairness, in a lot of western societies acts of commission are looked upon and punished as worse than acts of omission.  Without taking circumstances into consideration that may very well not be fair but it tends to be the prevailing view in a good number of places.

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Telecaster68
15 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Regarding fairness, in a lot of western societies acts of commission are looked upon and punished as worse than acts of omission.  Without taking circumstances into consideration that may very well not be fair but it tends to be the prevailing view in a good number of places.

Hadn't thought of it like that before. Good point. So whoever is more tolerant of the status quo gets to do nothing without much in the way of consequences. 

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James121
2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Unfortunately it’s the kind of thing you can’t “test drive”; if one party tries it out and either ends up being really not okay with it, there’s no way to go back to a place where it wasn’t yet done.

Why can’t you test drive it? If you don’t address the matter you will end up splitting anyway or is there an expectation that someone will just stay and endure it forever?

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ryn2
1 hour ago, James121 said:

Why can’t you test drive it? If you don’t address the matter you will end up splitting anyway or is there an expectation that someone will just stay and endure it forever?

It’s not something you can try out without actually doing it.  If it turns out either party is not okay with it, you can’t set the clock back to where it never happened.

 

If both parties know it is the last thing to try before splitting and if it doesn’t work for both ending the original relationship is the next step, sure... but that probably means getting in the “breaking up” headspace anyway.

 

The consensus among the poly folks I know (who may not be representative of all poly folks) is that - much like getting pregnant - opening a marriage shouldn’t be done when there are big issues/to “save” it; it should be done when things are going well and both partners agree it will add something.

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uhtred

One of the reasons sex is so important to sexuals is that it creates a close emotional bond.  This makes open relationships very problematic for most people - it would be too easy to for a stronger bond with the other person.   (and of course this indicates that the bond with the non-sexual partner is probably pretty weak).

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ryn2
2 minutes ago, uhtred said:

One of the reasons sex is so important to sexuals is that it creates a close emotional bond.

...and that’s a hard thing for at least some of us ace folks to understand, because for us it doesn’t (and may even have the opposite effect).  It’s hard not to see the relationship with the secondary partner as “he/she/they loves the new partner more.”

 

It also takes a while (half a year, if things go well) for the new relationship energy/infatuation to wear off and that’s a long time to wait and see how it goes if things are already feeling pretty bad.

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InariYana
1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

The consensus among the poly folks I know (who may not be representative of all poly folks) is that - much like getting pregnant - opening a marriage shouldn’t be done when there are big issues/to “save” it; it should be done when things are going well and both partners agree it will add something.

I cannot agree more. Both partners must be enthusiastic about it. If one agrees half-heartedly or feels some unease about it that will probably just prolong the slow death of original relationship and cause more heartache. You really must be comfortable with the idea (and images in your head) of your partner having sex with other people AND bonding with them emotionally. They will be spending time together, sharing their precious moments together, bonding in a way more "completely" as it will be perceived like that by a sexual person, bonding on all levels. In the end the sexual person may leave you anyway (happened to two polyamorous sexual men I know, their primary female partners just jumped into monogamous relationships with their new men).

 

If you can be fully enthusiastic about it - go for it.

It certainly is something I could not do. 

I'd rather break up and have this chapter closed.    

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Serran
4 hours ago, James121 said:

Why can’t you test drive it? If you don’t address the matter you will end up splitting anyway or is there an expectation that someone will just stay and endure it forever?

Because "test drive" is enough to end the relationship if someone is not ok with it. It's a "I will try but this is likely the nail in the coffin" rather than " I have enthusiasm this will improve our relationship" like opening should be in a healthy relationship. And if you're there it's hardly going to be easy to make it successful. 

 

 

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Telecaster68
3 minutes ago, Serran said:

Because "test drive" is enough to end the relationship if someone is not ok with it. It's a "I will try but this is likely the nail in the coffin" rather than " I have enthusiasm this will improve our relationship" like opening should be in a healthy relationship. And if you're there it's hardly going to be easy to make it successful. 

Which is in turn why cheating becomes a less black and white issue. 

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ryn2

I’m sure opinions differ but to me it’s not the sex that makes cheating an issue... it’s the dishonesty.  Like drinking/doing drugs on the sly when you’ve sworn you’ve quit, or lying about your income and diverting half to a secret account, cheating (by which I mean having an emotionally and/or physically intimate relationship outside your primary relationship without the knowlege of your primary partner) breaks the trust necessary to sustain a relationship.

 

If the primary partner is specifically okay with your having other partners on a “don’t ask, don’t tell” basis, I don’t consider that cheating as you’re not being dishonest.

 

I’m meaning the univeral you and not you, personally throughout.

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Serran
24 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Which is in turn why cheating becomes a less black and white issue. 

Hmm. Agree to disagree there. I still see cheating as very black and white. As in, if you aren't happy and are going outside and don't tell your partner what is up, it's still very wrong imo. For one, it's hurting them and lying and when they find out, it will cause long term harm in future relationships. For two, if you are still having sex at all then you put their health at risk without their consent . 

 

If you go outside and let your partner know and leave it up to them what to do about it, that's fine imo. But the hiding and lying I will always see as a simple "wrong " , no matter how many good reasons the person may have for needing more than what their partner can give. 

 

I let people I date know they can tell me if they need another person and I won't be mad. I won't be able to stay with them , but I will stay their friend and no hard feelings as long as they don't hide it. If they hide it, they are effectively cutting themselves out of my life if I find out and there will be a lot of hard feelings. Dishonesty is never a good idea. 

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MrDane
1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

I’m sure opinions differ but to me it’s not the sex that makes cheating an issue... it’s the dishonesty.  Like drinking/doing drugs on the sly when you’ve sworn you’ve quit, or lying about your income and diverting half to a secret account, cheating (by which I mean having an emotionally and/or physically intimate relationship outside your primary relationship without the knowlege of your primary partner) breaks the trust necessary to sustain a relationship.

 

If the primary partner is specifically okay with your having other partners on a “don’t ask, don’t tell” basis, I don’t consider that cheating as you’re not being dishonest.

 

I’m meaning the univeral you and not you, personally throughout.

You mean like: 

asexual says: “I cannot provide the sex you want, but I want us to stay together. I am okay with you going to get your sex with someone else. Take care. Come back. ...but let us not talk about it. I dont want to be informed, but you have my blessing”

sexual says: “I would prefer to have sex with you, but I also want us to stay together and I dont want you to participate in sex which you do not like. I will go to seek sex elsewhere. I will take care of myself and protect our relationship. I will not tell you about the details. You may ask me sometime and I will tell.”

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ryn2

Yes, @MrDane, or even:

 

sexual:  “I want to stay in this relationship but I cannot do so if I cannot get my sexual needs met elsewhere.”

asexual:  “do what you have to do but, please, don’t mention a thing to me about it.”

 

...or any of the many other ways the same basic conversation might go.

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Thea2

.

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uhtred
On 4/29/2018 at 11:37 AM, ryn2 said:

Does anyone have thoughts on why - assuming no sex repulsion - compromising is workable for some couples and not for others?  Are there characteristics of one or both parties that make it more or less likely to work? 

It could just depend on how big the gap is.  Both "sexual" and "asexual" cover a lot of ground. 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
On 4/30/2018 at 8:39 PM, James121 said:

The problem with this statement is that in not giving a green light,  you essentially do give the green light.......to yourself.

I wont entertain this idea and facilitate my partner because I want to facilitate myself.

And that’s what a lot of the problem is here. In many cases it’s about someone wanting it their way with no wriggle room whatsoever.

Most people who refuse the green light don’t even ‘try on the pants’. They simply don’t like the idea so they rule it out as rubbish. I appreciate that may not have been the case in your relationship.

 

The ace can't make themselves want sex and that often causes them pain and distress knowing it's hurting their partner. If the only option given to the ace is something that will cause them even more pain and distress (their partner screwing someone else), then the ace is left with double the pain while the sexual is getting the best of all worlds. They get to keep their ace *and* get their jollies off with whoever they like. On the flip-side, yes the sexual person *not* screwing other people will cause them pain and distress (if they're someone capable of desiring sex with others that is) but exchanging one person's pain for anothers seems like a shitty deal either way! To me, it's not really compromise if one person will end up utterly miserable, regardless of whether that person is the ace or the sexual. If someone is going to end up deeply hurt regardless, then maybe a break up is best for both parties.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
13 hours ago, Thea2 said:

IMHO, if an impossible situation arises in which the only solution for you is to cheat, then carry the burden of guilt on your own. I.e. have the decency not to tell your partner about it, telling about it would just be cruel. And make sure you don’t carry diseases back home.

Not telling the partner can hurt more. At least if you tell them they have the option of ending the relationship with you! I've been cheated on (many times) but the times where it took me longer to find out were much worse because you don't know how many times you sucked your partners dick after it had been in someone else's twat or arse, or how often you kissed their mouth (more applicable to an ace if they're not having sex with their partner) after their partners mouth had been on someone else's body and genitals. Yuck. It could have been hundreds of times and you can't stop thinking about it and stressing about it - it feels like you've been violated on a deeply personal level and i wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!! At least if you know (the sooner the better) you can leave them or at the very least monitor them like a hawk to make sure they're scrubbing their body down etc before they touch you. And diseases are a tricky one because unless you're getting checked after every time you screw the other person, you often don't know if you've picked something up - and during that time you could spread something to your partner. You can also bring home diseases on your mouth (herpes - you can get both the genital and oral kind on your mouth) and most people don't even think to check there. Eeew.

 

If you cheat, you have the responsibility to tell your partner so they can decide if they want to continue to be with you. Now that I'm older and stronger my advice would always be: make the choice to leave. Someone who will cheat is not worth being with because of the danger it's putting you as well as all the other issues associated with cheating!

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Sad Gray Ace

Hi All!

 

An update. We had a horrible weekend, full of talking and screaming about the same topic. Sex. I told him straight that I don't want it, he of course took this personal. It is a verbal and emotionally abusive marriage and he will not leave and I would not be able to easily. So to answer the question he would not go elsewhere even if I was ok with it No. He won't even masturbate.

 

We started couples counselling this week and I made it very clear his sexual drive is very different to mine. I told him that I will not be able to fulfil him sexually but he still wants to stay. I think he might change his mind when it actually sinks it though. I am forever going to live my life with him waiting for the same fight that we have been having for 20 years!

 

I know I need to leave but when it is an abusive relationship, children with emotion issues of their own, I have no family support or finances it is hard to leave but eventually it will be done. I can not live (or have him live) a life of misery and depression. I have goals and dreams and they are different to his, I need to be happy too!

 

Compromise is good for a time, though when the same level of desire (or non desire) returns due to the stress and mental illness because of it, it turns to shit again. Fast!

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ryn2

That sounds really hard.  I’m sorry.

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uhtred
15 hours ago, Sad Gray Ace said:

Hi All!

 

An update. We had a horrible weekend, full of talking and screaming about the same topic. Sex. I told him straight that I don't want it, he of course took this personal. It is a verbal and emotionally abusive marriage and he will not leave and I would not be able to easily. So to answer the question he would not go elsewhere even if I was ok with it No. He won't even masturbate.

 

We started couples counselling this week and I made it very clear his sexual drive is very different to mine. I told him that I will not be able to fulfil him sexually but he still wants to stay. I think he might change his mind when it actually sinks it though. I am forever going to live my life with him waiting for the same fight that we have been having for 20 years!

 

I know I need to leave but when it is an abusive relationship, children with emotion issues of their own, I have no family support or finances it is hard to leave but eventually it will be done. I can not live (or have him live) a life of misery and depression. I have goals and dreams and they are different to his, I need to be happy too!

 

Compromise is good for a time, though when the same level of desire (or non desire) returns due to the stress and mental illness because of it, it turns to shit again. Fast!

I'm very sorry to hear you are in this situation.  Honestly though, I don't think it is good for either of you and likely never will be. 

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Lovelykat
On 4/28/2018 at 12:21 PM, InariYana said:

Compromise is rarely a stable thing - sexual partner may want more, may want to "spice it up", may push and push, expect more enthusiasm, more desire, more variety. You may want to skip scheduled sex sometime and they'll go all huffing and puffing, this may again escalate to fights... I've been there, too many times.

 

This is so true, and it's absolutely huge. I thought I could make a relationship with a past bf who was very hsexual work, because I can have sex from time to time and if it's infrequent and very vanilla I don't mind. What I didn't understand is that even if you're able to have sex on occasion for the sake of the relationship, it's often not enough. Many sexual people desire sex multiple times a week, and they want passion and variety, something asexuals cannot always give them. 

I have been with people all across the spectrum- high sex drive, low sex drive, asexual. I find the only times I'm able to explore my own sexuality and be comfortable with intimacy is with fellow low sex drive people. With a high sex drive partner, I always felt like I was not enough and it severely hurt my self esteem. I hate to be negative, but my vote is that it's nearly impossible to make a relationship with two very mismatched libidos work without someone getting hurt. My heart goes out to both of you, it's a difficult situation all around. 

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Sad Gray Ace
On ‎27‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 11:50 PM, uhtred said:

There is no solution. If he is a typical sexual, then he cannot be happy without an active sex life though he might pretend.  You can’t be happy with an active sex life- though you might pretend.  You will both end up miserable. 

 

Ive tried for over 30 years. Please don’t make my mistake.  

 

You our will not be doing your children a favor. You will just teach them what an unhappy marriage looks like. 

 

Im sorry to be blunt

Don't be sorry I need blunt! I am so depressed and worried for the kids.

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Sad Gray Ace
On ‎3‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 1:09 AM, uhtred said:

I'm very sorry to hear you are in this situation.  Honestly though, I don't think it is good for either of you and likely never will be. 

I agree. But he is holding on so tight to what could be. Compromise is proving difficult. He thinks he can shut down that part of him. I don't know how when it is all consuming a lot of the time. Really stressing me out.

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Sad Gray Ace
On ‎3‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 4:49 AM, Lovelykat said:

This is so true, and it's absolutely huge. I thought I could make a relationship with a past bf who was very hsexual work, because I can have sex from time to time and if it's infrequent and very vanilla I don't mind. What I didn't understand is that even if you're able to have sex on occasion for the sake of the relationship, it's often not enough. Many sexual people desire sex multiple times a week, and they want passion and variety, something asexuals cannot always give them. 

I have been with people all across the spectrum- high sex drive, low sex drive, asexual. I find the only times I'm able to explore my own sexuality and be comfortable with intimacy is with fellow low sex drive people. With a high sex drive partner, I always felt like I was not enough and it severely hurt my self esteem. I hate to be negative, but my vote is that it's nearly impossible to make a relationship with two very mismatched libidos work without someone getting hurt. My heart goes out to both of you, it's a difficult situation all around. 

I agree, compromise has a shelf life so to speak. To my husband it is not the frequency it is my part or lack of. Sex is not enough for him now it is what is done during (by me) and that is what I can not "perform" to his liking and satisfaction. He is not fully getting it yet...

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InariYana

If only this compromise situation could be stable and predictable, let's say - vanilla sex + some little sensual extras, nice lingerie, candles, massage, sex once in 2 weeks (I think I could agree to that and feel comfortable... with exception of horrible tiredness, illness, fighting in relationship etc).

Yes, I could do that, sometimes enjoy it more, sometimes less. Many times I pushed myself past that (and out of what I felt was comfortable, just to please someone) and it was fine for a while... but then pushing and pushing for more started. More frequent, kinkier, this kind of sex, that kind. Then it starts feeling like you're the only one compromising more and more and feeling worse and worse. Because it seems like whatever you do is never enough. 

 

In the end you may get "but I want to do that with someone who actually really WANTS it" and it feels like all that hard work and effort was for... nothing. You feel used, drained and you simply want to walk away from it all. 

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