Thoughts on Incel

[Telecaster68]

Vasectomies are disconnecting/tying the tubes supplying sperm to the urethra. Castration is having your balls cut off. 

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

The Anabolic Steroid Testosterone is implicated in rising levels of aggression in human males, predominantly when competing with/for females and is linked to alcoholism /criminal behaviours.

 

See:

 

Alexander, G.M., Swerdloff, R.S., Wang, C. et al. (1997). Androgen-behavior correlations in hypogonadal men and eugonadal men. Hormones and Behavior, 31, 110–119.

Archer, J. (1991). The influence of testosterone on human aggression. British Journal of Psychology, 82, 1–28.

Bagatell, C.J., Heiman, J.R., Rivier, J.E. & Bremner, W.J. (1994). Effects of endogenous testosterone and estradiol on sexual behavior in normal young men. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 78, 711–716.

Bailey, A.A. & Hurd, P.L. (2005). Finger length ratio (2D:4D) correlates with physical aggression in men but not in women. Biological Psychology, 68, 215–222.

Berenbaum, S.A. & Hines, M. (1992). Early androgens are related to childhood sex-typed toy preferences. Psychological Science, 3, 203–206.

Brookes, H., Neave, N., Hamilton, C. & Fink, B. (2007). Digit ratio (2D:4D) and lateralization for basic numerical quantification. Journal of Individual Differences, 28, 55–63.

Brosnan, M.J. (2008). Digit ratio as an indicator of numeracy relative to literacy in 7-year-old British schoolchildren. British Journal of Psychology, 99, 75–85. 
Cherrier, M.M., Matsumoto, A.M., Amory, J.K. et al.

(2007). Characterization of verbal and spatial memory changes from moderate to supraphysiological increases in serum testosterone in healthy older men. Psychoneuroendocrinology, 32, 72–79.

Collaer, M.L. & Hines, M. (1995). Human behavioral sex differences: A role for gonadal hormones during early development? Psychological Bulletin, 118, 55–107.

Fink, B., Manning, J.T. & Neave, N. (2004a). Second to fourth digit ratio and the ‘big five’ personality factors. Personality and Individual Differences, 37, 495–503. 
Fink, B., Manning, J.T., Neave, N. & Tan, U. (2004b).

Second to fourth digit ratio and hand skill in Austrian children. Biological Psychology, 67, 375–384.

Fink, B., Neave, N., Laughton, K. & Manning, J.T. 
(2006). Second to fourth digit ratio and sensation seeking. Personality and Individual Differences, 41, 1253–1262.

Fink, B., Neave, N. & Manning, J.T. (2003). Second to fourth digit ratio, body mass index, waist-to-hip ratio and waist-to-chest ratio. Annals of Human Biology, 30, 728–738.

Halpern, D.F. (2000). Sex differences in cognitive abilities. Hillsdale, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum.

Hier, D.B. & Crowley, W.F. (1982). Spatial ability in androgen-deficient men. New England Journal of Medicine, 306, 1202–1205.

Manning, J.T. (2002). Digit ratio. Piscataway, NJ: Rutgers University Press.

Manning, J.T., Fink, B., Neave, N. & Szwed, A. (2006). The second to fourth digit ratio and asymmetry. Annals of Human Biology, 33, 480–492.

McIntyre, M.H. (2006). The use of digit ratios as markers for perinatal androgen action. Reproductive Biology and Endocrinology, 4, 1–9.

Neave, N., Laing, S., Fink, B. & Manning, J.T. (2003). Second to fourth digit ratio, testosterone and perceived male dominance. Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, B, 270, 2167–2172.

Neave, N. & Wolfson, S. (2003).  Testosterone, territoriality and the ‘home advantage’. Physiology and Behavior, 78, 269–275.

Neave, N. & Wolfson, S. (2004). The home advantage. In D. Lavallee et al. (Eds.) Coping and emotion in sport. New York: Nova Science.

Nelson, R.J. (2000). An introduction to behavioral endocrinology. Sunderland MA: Sinauer Associates.

O’Connor, D.B. (2007). Effects of testosterone on aggression, anger and mood in men. In E.I. Clausen (Ed.) Psychology of anger (pp.257–270). New York: Nova Science.

O’Connor, D.B., Archer, J., Hair, W.H. & Wu, F.C.W. (2002). Exogenous testosterone, aggression, and mood in eugonadal and hypogonadal men. Physiology and Behavior, 75, 557–566.

O’Connor, D.B., Archer, J., Hair, W.M. & Wu, F.C.W. (2001a) Activational effects of testosterone on cognitive function in men. Neuropsychologia. 39, 1385-1394.

O’Connor, D.B., Archer, J. & Wu, F.C.W. (2001b). Measuring aggression. Aggressive Behavior, 27, 79-101.

O’Connor, D.B., Archer, J. & Wu, F.C.W. (2004). Effects of testosterone on mood, aggression and sexual behavior in young men. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 89, 2837–2845.

O’Connor, D.B. Corona, G., Forti, G. et al. (2008). Assessment of sexual health in ageing men in Europe. Journal of Sexual Medicine, 5, 1374–1385.

Pagonis, T.A., Angelopoulos, N.V., Koukoulis, G.N. & Hadjichristodoulou, C.S. (2006). Psychiatric side effects induced by supraphysiological doses of combinations of anabolic steroids correlate to the severity of abuse. European Psychiatry, 21, 551–562.

Putz, D.A., Gaulin, S.J.C., Sporter, R.J. & McBurney, D.H. (2004). Sex hormones and finger length. Evolution and Human Behavior, 25, 182–199.

Rahman, Q. (2005). Fluctuating asymmetry, second to fourth finger length ratios and human sexual orientation. Psychoneuroendocrinology, 30, 382–391.

Rammsayer, T.H. & Troche, S.J. (2007). Sexual dimorphism in second-to-fourth digit ratio and its relation to gender-role orientation in males and females. Personality and Individual Differences, 42, 911–920.

Su, T-P., Pagliaro, M., Schmidt, P.J. et al. (1993). Neuropsychiatric effects of anabolic steroids in male normal volunteers. Journal of the American Medical Association, 269, 2760–2764.

Tester, N. & Campbell, A. (2007). Sporting achievement: What is the contribution of digit ratio? Journal of Personality, 75, 663–678.

van Anders, S.M. & Watson, N.V. (2006). Social neuroendocrinology. Effects of social contexts and behaviors on sex steroids in humans. Human Nature, 17, 212–237.

Wang, C., Swerdloff, R.S., Iranmanesh, A. et al. (2000). Transdermal testosterone gel improves sexual function, mood, muscle strength, and body composition in hypogonadal men. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 85, 2839–2853.

Wingfield, J.C., Hegner, R.E., Dufty, A.M. & Ball, G.F. (1990). The ‘challenge hypothesis’: Theoretical implications for patterns of testosterone secretion, mating systems, and breeding strategies. The American Naturalist, 136, 829–846. 

 

 

 

 

BPS M

[Telecaster68]

Your point? 

[paperbackreader]

Haha, thanks for the 101 on biology lessons, I promise I genuinely didn't know the difference and also not a 15 year old school girl pranking you all!  

 

Tbh, that anyone ever chooses to undergo any non necessary surgical procedure is odd to me. Heck, even going to someone for a hair cut is odd to me, so.. !!! 

[paperbackreader]

!

[Sally]

 

4 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Your point? 

Geez, Tele, her point was contained in her first sentence.  Read it.  

[Telecaster68]

No, that sentence was just saying testosterone had some effects, apropos of... well, what exactly....? 

 

Her previous post strongly implied men should be castrated and quite a lot of misandry. How does a list of literature about the effects of testosterone add to that? 

 

 

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

When I grew up on the farm, we had a lovely belted Galloway bull. As a youngster he was a sweetie and we looked forward to breeding him as he grew older. Unfortunately he turned into a vicious bully, not just mating with the cows but biting kicking and otherwise abusing them. My granddad had him neutered, which softens the beef and makes it more tender. He then , after a few weeks of decreasing testosterone, became his old self.

One of the studies I posted above shows that had my grandfather then reintroduced him to testosterone by injection, he may well have reverted back to his nastier version,but we'll never know, as back then , this wasn't on our farming radar.

 

Personally, I have experience of this (anecdotal of course, although, once again there are studies ). I had Polycystic Ovary disease as a young woman, That means my ovaries were forming cysts instead of eggs. Inside these cysts, testosterone was produced. Not pleasant. I was sent to a specialist Endocrinology unit in Glasgow, where they did loads of tests before re- balancing my chemistry. One of these tests involved a corticosteroid tolerance test, so I was injected with a dose of this. I'll never forget the adrenaline , the clenched fists or the awful roller coaster that gave me. Then they told me what had been given afterwards. I'd not been told what it was beforehand and back then doctors weren't obliged to enlighten patients- just get on with their job. I remember lying in my hospital bed sweating and gritting my teeth in anger until the effects wore off.

 

Now, in concentrating on Testosterone, I'm not singling out men in any way-just testosterone. It could be that some men are very sensitive to it and this might cause more extreme behaviours. Indeed , one of the studies above took blood samples at various times and discovered that testosterone levels elevate in the hours before a seduction is planned.

 

Neither am I advocating that all men be neutered, but I think that there is a place for chemical intervention if the person is severely affected (and adversely affecting the lives of others) to the extent of carrying out vicious attacks on innocent others. I see it as a treatment plan, not a punishment.

 

A local news report last week was about a woman who carried out vicious domestic assaults on her husband, thankfully she has been imprisoned and quite rightly too. Perhaps there should have been some blood testing in that case - we need so much more information.

 

In addition to this, a culture that demeans the average 'gentle' man has evolved. The gym culture (complete with anabolic steroid use) has increased the amount of young men choc full of these poisonous chemicals. Raoul Moat, anyone? there's one to google.

 

Two last points. I have nothing at all against all men - I have more male than female friends, loads of people know me from meet ups and can probably attest that I'm a regular ordinary person (as psychologically agendered, I feel more person than male/female). It's just a certain kind of man I avoid- ones like the belted Galloway bull.

 

Apologies for the skew towards Endocrinological Psychology in my references list - my first postgraduate post was in a place called Carstairs (now called The State Hospital) , as a Clinical Psychology trainee.

[Telecaster68]

Fair enough, though I think trying to separate 'men' as a gender from the effects of the main hormone that differentiates men from women is tad disingenuous. 

[Skycaptain]

Only on AVEN could incel turn into clinical endocrinology 101

[Lonemathsytoothbrushthief]

2 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

Only on AVEN could incel turn into clinical endocrinology 101

I actually prefer it...

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

Me too @Lonemathsytoothbrushthief! @Skycaptain, that's why I stick with AVEN....scratch the surface of anyone and you find something interesting!...and , as you say yourself in your signature thingy at the bottom of the posts...

 

 

Life is nothing but a chemical reaction, death is nothing but a chemical reaction, emotions are nothing but chemical reactions, we are all nothing but chemical reactions
 

[Calligraphette_Coe]

For you endocrinology fans out there, this first person account of what hormones or a lack thereof can do.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/opinion/sunday/bringing-back-my-real-self-with-hormones.html

 

This article is by Mary Lou Jepsen, a brilliant electrical engineer who almost died from a pitutiary tumor. Here is the first paragraph from that article, the one most salient to this discussion.....

 

Quote

IN my early 30s, for a few months, I altered my body chemistry and hormones so that I was closer to a man in his early 20s. I was blown away by how dramatically my thoughts changed. I was angry almost all the time, thought about sex constantly, and assumed I was the smartest person in the entire world. Over the years I had met guys rather like this.

I was not experimenting with hormone levels out of idle curiosity or in some kind of quirky science experiment. I was on hormone treatments because I’d had a tumor removed along with part of my pituitary gland, which makes key hormones the body needs to function.

I've been through some of these same things from different causes, only on the other side of the coin. And it isn't any fun, that's for sure. Maybe that's what scares me about the incels, having been a target of rage at times, albeit for different reasons. So be assured, I'm not posting this in their defense. I think some of the people giving me the grief were just plain misogynists, out to 'trample out the vinstage where the grapes of wrath' against feminity are stored.

[Cobie]

On 28/04/2018 at 9:57 PM, chandrakirti said:

...  I've been married, had loads of sex and know just as much about it as any sexual person, because I was masquerading as one at the time! ...

In my experience - compromise sex as an asexual does not give the same experience, as the passion that innate sexuals describe.

[SorryNotSorry]

Sheesh, why can't more people just ignore??? It works for me. I mean, if someone else wants me out of sight, out of mind, I just treat them the same way. Getting angry over it just isn't a productive use of my time.

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

It certainly has worked for me recently, @Woodworker1968 I prefer to choose rather than have ideas thrust upon me.

[InariYana]

I remember reading about the link of excess estrogen and aggression too - in women it was most often a type of competitive aggression, aimed at other women, being short-tempered and irritable, prone to random anger outbursts. It's not just testosterone it seems, but maybe main sex hormones in general.

I certainly had very bad experiences with the contraceptive pill - some made me into an emotionally unstable, aggressive maniac, some into a perpetually hungry, crying zombie. A lot of that might have been due to synthetic progestin, but who knows... 

Additional sex hormones? No thank you

 

I also remember a study showing that men who recently became fathers to babies and actively care for their little ones experience a drop in testosterone and that makes them more cooperative, nurturing and emotionally in-tune with others.        

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

Yes @InariYana, one of the references I posted above includes that finding about new fathers. Sex hormone disruption and elevation may explain the female perpetrators of domestic violence/PMS etc . Sex hormones? A minefield. 

 

[Skycaptain]

On 28/04/2018 at 8:57 PM, chandrakirti said:

PS: as for the idea of testosterone being a poison, well, anyone who's had a poorly behaved dog/cat/(insert other species) can attest that the first thing that is asked in the vet is 'has he been neutered?'......if only we could generalise that to the human species, perhaps we wouldn't have the violence....and just to get in front of the accusations that I must be a 'man hater/sexual hater' for posting that, I'll have you know that I've been married, had loads of sex and know just as much about it as any sexual person, because I was masquerading as one at the time!  As a married woman, I saw it as 'part of the job' , so I made sure my other half wasn't kept short of his 'oats' as the saying goes..

 

On 28/04/2018 at 11:52 PM, chandrakirti said:

The Anabolic Steroid Testosterone is implicated in rising levels of aggression in human males, predominantly when competing with/for females and is linked to alcoholism /criminal behaviours.

 

See:

 

Alexander, G.M., Swerdloff, R.S., Wang, C. et al. (1997). Androgen-behavior correlations in hypogonadal men and eugonadal men. Hormones and Behavior, 31, 110–119.

Archer, J. (1991). The influence of testosterone on human aggression. British Journal of Psychology, 82, 1–28.

Bagatell, C.J., Heiman, J.R., Rivier, J.E. & Bremner, W.J. (1994). Effects of endogenous testosterone and estradiol on sexual behavior in normal young men. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 78, 711–716.

Bailey, A.A. & Hurd, P.L. (2005). Finger length ratio (2D:4D) correlates with physical aggression in men but not in women. Biological Psychology, 68, 215–222.

Berenbaum, S.A. & Hines, M. (1992). Early androgens are related to childhood sex-typed toy preferences. Psychological Science, 3, 203–206.

Brookes, H., Neave, N., Hamilton, C. & Fink, B. (2007). Digit ratio (2D:4D) and lateralization for basic numerical quantification. Journal of Individual Differences, 28, 55–63.

Brosnan, M.J. (2008). Digit ratio as an indicator of numeracy relative to literacy in 7-year-old British schoolchildren. British Journal of Psychology, 99, 75–85. 
Cherrier, M.M., Matsumoto, A.M., Amory, J.K. et al.

(2007). Characterization of verbal and spatial memory changes from moderate to supraphysiological increases in serum testosterone in healthy older men. Psychoneuroendocrinology, 32, 72–79.

Collaer, M.L. & Hines, M. (1995). Human behavioral sex differences: A role for gonadal hormones during early development? Psychological Bulletin, 118, 55–107.

Fink, B., Manning, J.T. & Neave, N. (2004a). Second to fourth digit ratio and the ‘big five’ personality factors. Personality and Individual Differences, 37, 495–503. 
Fink, B., Manning, J.T., Neave, N. & Tan, U. (2004b).

Second to fourth digit ratio and hand skill in Austrian children. Biological Psychology, 67, 375–384.

Fink, B., Neave, N., Laughton, K. & Manning, J.T. 
(2006). Second to fourth digit ratio and sensation seeking. Personality and Individual Differences, 41, 1253–1262.

Fink, B., Neave, N. & Manning, J.T. (2003). Second to fourth digit ratio, body mass index, waist-to-hip ratio and waist-to-chest ratio. Annals of Human Biology, 30, 728–738.

Halpern, D.F. (2000). Sex differences in cognitive abilities. Hillsdale, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum.

Hier, D.B. & Crowley, W.F. (1982). Spatial ability in androgen-deficient men. New England Journal of Medicine, 306, 1202–1205.

Manning, J.T. (2002). Digit ratio. Piscataway, NJ: Rutgers University Press.

Manning, J.T., Fink, B., Neave, N. & Szwed, A. (2006). The second to fourth digit ratio and asymmetry. Annals of Human Biology, 33, 480–492.

McIntyre, M.H. (2006). The use of digit ratios as markers for perinatal androgen action. Reproductive Biology and Endocrinology, 4, 1–9.

Neave, N., Laing, S., Fink, B. & Manning, J.T. (2003). Second to fourth digit ratio, testosterone and perceived male dominance. Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, B, 270, 2167–2172.

Neave, N. & Wolfson, S. (2003).  Testosterone, territoriality and the ‘home advantage’. Physiology and Behavior, 78, 269–275.

Neave, N. & Wolfson, S. (2004). The home advantage. In D. Lavallee et al. (Eds.) Coping and emotion in sport. New York: Nova Science.

Nelson, R.J. (2000). An introduction to behavioral endocrinology. Sunderland MA: Sinauer Associates.

O’Connor, D.B. (2007). Effects of testosterone on aggression, anger and mood in men. In E.I. Clausen (Ed.) Psychology of anger (pp.257–270). New York: Nova Science.

O’Connor, D.B., Archer, J., Hair, W.H. & Wu, F.C.W. (2002). Exogenous testosterone, aggression, and mood in eugonadal and hypogonadal men. Physiology and Behavior, 75, 557–566.

O’Connor, D.B., Archer, J., Hair, W.M. & Wu, F.C.W. (2001a) Activational effects of testosterone on cognitive function in men. Neuropsychologia. 39, 1385-1394.

O’Connor, D.B., Archer, J. & Wu, F.C.W. (2001b). Measuring aggression. Aggressive Behavior, 27, 79-101.

O’Connor, D.B., Archer, J. & Wu, F.C.W. (2004). Effects of testosterone on mood, aggression and sexual behavior in young men. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 89, 2837–2845.

O’Connor, D.B. Corona, G., Forti, G. et al. (2008). Assessment of sexual health in ageing men in Europe. Journal of Sexual Medicine, 5, 1374–1385.

Pagonis, T.A., Angelopoulos, N.V., Koukoulis, G.N. & Hadjichristodoulou, C.S. (2006). Psychiatric side effects induced by supraphysiological doses of combinations of anabolic steroids correlate to the severity of abuse. European Psychiatry, 21, 551–562.

Putz, D.A., Gaulin, S.J.C., Sporter, R.J. & McBurney, D.H. (2004). Sex hormones and finger length. Evolution and Human Behavior, 25, 182–199.

Rahman, Q. (2005). Fluctuating asymmetry, second to fourth finger length ratios and human sexual orientation. Psychoneuroendocrinology, 30, 382–391.

Rammsayer, T.H. & Troche, S.J. (2007). Sexual dimorphism in second-to-fourth digit ratio and its relation to gender-role orientation in males and females. Personality and Individual Differences, 42, 911–920.

Su, T-P., Pagliaro, M., Schmidt, P.J. et al. (1993). Neuropsychiatric effects of anabolic steroids in male normal volunteers. Journal of the American Medical Association, 269, 2760–2764.

Tester, N. & Campbell, A. (2007). Sporting achievement: What is the contribution of digit ratio? Journal of Personality, 75, 663–678.

van Anders, S.M. & Watson, N.V. (2006). Social neuroendocrinology. Effects of social contexts and behaviors on sex steroids in humans. Human Nature, 17, 212–237.

Wang, C., Swerdloff, R.S., Iranmanesh, A. et al. (2000). Transdermal testosterone gel improves sexual function, mood, muscle strength, and body composition in hypogonadal men. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 85, 2839–2853.

Wingfield, J.C., Hegner, R.E., Dufty, A.M. & Ball, G.F. (1990). The ‘challenge hypothesis’: Theoretical implications for patterns of testosterone secretion, mating systems, and breeding strategies. The American Naturalist, 136, 829–846. 

 

 

 

Can someone please explain where these posts are bigoted, as opposed to factually correct

BPS M

 

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

Only just got back here @Skycaptain, thanks for your support, I really appreciate it. Unfortunately Science is under attack these days, by people with agendas. You can't just edit out what you don't like . If it sticks, it sticks. I'll always be a scientist and if I have to choose....it'll be a no brainer!

[m4rble]

On 4/27/2018 at 2:37 PM, FictoVore. said:

Damn, I need to get me some testosterone  

I don't think you need it. . . 

[(NotSo)DirtyDiana]

I'm going to chime in here but I might regret it as I don't like confrontation and will often avoid debates. However... I've mentioned incels on another thread (that I now can't find) and how they can be found in some of the mental health communities I've been on in the last 8 years. Now, I'm socially inept and as alien as they come; I'm tense, uncomfortable, I say stupid things and I have very little life experience compared to other people. I have sought like-minded souls in the mental health community, others with anxiety, depression, hearts on their sleeves. This is all good until I start talking to a guy who, after a while, starts sending me unexpected and unwanted dick pictures. Followed by messages of emotional blackmail along the lines of, "accept my dick, tell me it's pretty, tell me it's OK, do you like sex, tell me about your feet." I may be naive but if I'm talking about movies and music I don't suddenly expect to be asked about my body and whether or not I would give him a handjob with my foot. (Footjob?) When I try to cut contact, they message to say they are depressed and suicidal because no woman likes them. Why don't I like them? I have rejected them, as have others, and now they are drinking alcohol and taking late night walks while drunk. All the while I'm wondering what on earth I'm supposed to think and do. This has happened more than once, and it's scary for a woman. One guy that I've actually been friends with for 9 years was very aggressive towards women online who acted friendly and accepting but then didn't seem to want them romantically/sexually. Threats, repeated questions demanding Why, angry emoticons, emotional blackmail and silent treatment. He even did it to me for years but he said he wanted to be friends... I accepted his friendship despite this abhorrent behaviour... I don't really forgive him for scaring other women, and I know he did scare women away from certain websites. 

 

I understand not being able to date, meet potential partners, attract, because I struggle with all the same. However, it is not acceptable to get aggressive or demanding. It is not acceptable to sexually harass or send people unwanted photos, or to ask them sexual questions repeatedly. I will say that most men do not do this. they respect a woman and her boundaries, but some men do engage in this behaviour and as a woman, I can say it's pretty scary. You actually wonder for your safety. From what I've read in these incel communities, they are full of men who not only engage in that behaviour, but they stalk and follow women on the street. They purposely try to seem dangerous because they get a kick out of scaring these nasty women who reject men like them (I wonder why). They talk to nice, sweet, lovely women while out and they imagine murdering them because they wouldn't be interested in him sexually, only for conversation. Again, a lot of men who choose to identify as incel are not like this, but a lot are, and because of this the word "incel" has a VERY negative meaning, and a lot of women are going to run like the wind at the mere hint that a man identifies as "incel." We women are learning this word, reading the news, reading the subreddits and learning that many "incel" men are dangerous. Now women in general are very alert to potentially dangerous men. The words "incel,"  "chad,"  "stacy"  etc are flashing red signs in the minds of many women. And the more these words become common knowledge in the mainstream, the more women are going to run. Ironically, those incel men are going to interpret that running as personal rejection. "She's avoiding me because I'm ugly." No - she's avoiding because you've alerted her that you have/may have these dark thoughts and mentalities. 

 

So I would advise any man that identifies as incel because they struggle to find dates/partners but DO NOT have thoughts/feelings of harm and hatred towards women to seriously reconsider their use of the word "incel." It has come to mean dangerous. If you're offended by the talk of those extremist incels and you don't agree with hating women, scaring them intentionally, sexually harassing them online or on phone, emotionally blackmailing them, raping them, or hurting them, drop the word. 

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

Sheesh @mreidand @(NotSo)DirtyDiana.... it's just so laughable and sad.

[EdInLeeds]

On 8/19/2018 at 7:44 PM, (NotSo)DirtyDiana said:

So I would advise any man that identifies as incel because they struggle to find dates/partners but DO NOT have thoughts/feelings of harm and hatred towards women to seriously reconsider their use of the word "incel." It has come to mean dangerous. If you're offended by the talk of those extremist incels and you don't agree with hating women, scaring them intentionally, sexually harassing them online or on phone, emotionally blackmailing them, raping them, or hurting them, drop the word. 

I would agree.  There used to be a website called simply Incel Support that I was part of.  This no longer exists (at least not with the same name).  The sad thing is that this site tried hard to be a positive site.  They would come down hard on any misogyny or abuse or trolling.  I imagine that the site no longer exists because they didn't want to be associated with the bad name of "incel" any longer.

 

Even despite the moderators' attempts to be open to women, Incel Support was very male-dominated.  I have never understood the maths behind this.  For every single man, there should be a corresponding single woman, shouldn't there?  I would have thought that more men than women would be excluded from the dating pool because of more men than women are taken out through prison, the army, early deaths, etc.  Why do there always seem to be more single men?