Why sexuality is violent?

[everywhere and nowhere]

I really think that there is a difference between unrealistic positions in porn and violence in porn. The latter is very troublesome because it may lead people to believe that sex should look like this. And, particularly for women - that sex is something degrading. I actually agree with that to a large extent, any sex would be degrading for me because I rebel internally against the idea of someone else having control over my body. (I don't mean violent sex - it's still much, much further from the area of consent. I hope you understand: I wouldn't agree to have sex with anyone anyway, but even more strongly I would never agree to have BDSM sex. I mean just the existential fear of having someone do something to my body.) But for allosexuals it is much more dangerous because it can lead them into dangerous territory.

It reinforces a very harmful idea about gender roles. I remember when I once asked if some people enjoy rough sex because "they just do", or because they are taught that passionate sex should look like this? For me it was a rhetorical question because, to honestly admit, I strongly agree with the latter opinion.

I have recently posted a link to this text while talking about sex positivity and why I refuse to identify with it even though supporting many ideas associated with sex positivity:

UNPOPULAR OPINION: I’m A Sex-Negative Feminist

The text also briefly mentions kinks:

Quote

I call myself sex-negative partially because it's an unsettling term -- one that invokes particular histories that many feminists would rather paper over or erase completely -- and partially because I fundamentally disagree with the assumptions about sex, kink, and consent upon which mainstream sex-positive feminism is based. (...)

Sex is not a realm separate from politics — it is always already political and social and it doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Kinks are not necessarily harmless. Even the notion of consent, considered by so many to be a simple matter, is problematic — in a patriarchal society where women’s agency is circumscribed by male supremacy, how meaningful is consent?

I agree with this. I don't want to be telling people what kind of sex they should or shouldn't have - but still, promoting brutal sex as a highly present image of sex reinforces a gender binary in which women are to be controlled, power and control are sexy, and masculinity is violent. If some people take it as reality or ideal, it actively promotes sexual violence.

[Guest]

Nowheregirl - Many BDSM fantasies revolve around a female dom and a male sub... so the male is submitting to the female. Also, er, if that person thinks consent is impossible what do they suggest? The whole world go celibate for fear that a woman is too weak to say what they want for real? That seems the opposite of promoting female strength or equality to me. I am not some weak willed creature that only gives consent cause a man says I should and to imply it based on my gender as that article seems to be... well if anyone gave me that as a reason to say no I would be highly insulted. I am an adult and my agency is very much not circumscribed by male anything in this matter. 

[Guest]

Also just cause I dont think I made this clear - OP its fine and not abnormal to find porn, especially violent porn, disturbing and scary. Lots of people feel that way. If real sex was anything like porn I would find it scary too. And if you lack any desires, there isnt much reason for you to expose yourself to such stuff. 

 

For fear of sexuals, sexuality is largely about love, trust and respect. Even in casual sex the trust and respect bits are important. It isnt about violence or taking, unless people are jerks. So no reason to fear people. Its just a thing they are into you arent, like roller coasters or other activities people either love or hate. 

[Nila24]

On 4/21/2018 at 4:41 PM, CrownFireDaylily said:

I'm the kind of person who wants to "understand" things. I struggle to mentally let something go if I haven't gotten to a place where I understand the reasons behind it. 

Me too.

 

English isn't my first language, so please excuse any mistakes.

 

Whenever I ask sexual persons about these issues, they respond that the answer is the feeling of morbid. I do not fully grasp the concept of morbid. I suspect that this is because I am not a neurotypical person. But I'm not sure. For me, if an event is horrible, brutal or disgusting, then I simply do not want to observe it and even less do it. The interesting thing is that people give me the same answer, when I ask them why they like to see gore.

My heterosexual friend told me that most human beings see the sexual act as a dirty, violent and obscene act and that is why it seems immoral to them. I do not know if I fully understand the concept of "obscene". I guess obscene applies to a thing that is so unpleasant that it causes fear. But there is something that escapes my logic. Something that others perceive and that I can not perceive. When I tried to see normal porn (without violence), the genitals seem ugly and disgusting, but the copulation does not seem more dirty and violent than seeing someone vomit, giving birth or defecating. Who would be interested to see the foreground of a guy shitting? I can not find the logical link with morality.

After thinking a lot about this matter, and even philosophizing, I started looking at interviews with murderers (among them, Tommy Lynn Sells), because they are often described as the epitome of human brutality. I noticed for the first time, that the violent and detailed way in which Tommy described how he stabbed people, reminded me of the sexual comments that men left in the comments box of porn videos. Well, killing is immoral, not because it's an ugly act of seeing, killing is immoral because it ends someone's life. But sex seems completely amoral to me.

In Spanish, my native language, the phrases "I am going to destroy your pelvis" or "I am going to impale you" are used to express the sexual desire of a man towards a woman. But many women like to be given those words. Yes, it is baffling.

Perhaps, most human beings feel the need to express feelings of brutality and destruction, that when they can not be expressed by normal violence (because it is illegal), then they express these feelings through sex.

[Sally]

I'm asexual but I had sex for many decades with my husband and then my partner.  I never experienced it as being violent in the least.  I think that the assumption by people who haven't had sex that the stories of violence they hear is the norm is incorrect, and they should not equate sex with what is an extreme behavior.  

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Nila24 said:

My heterosexual friend told me that most human beings see the sexual act as a dirty, violent and obscene act and that is why it seems immoral to them. 

That right there is the beginning of all the issues for you. Most humans see sex as beautiful, pleasurable, and fun. SOME (usually with extremely repressed backgrounds, or a history of past abuse, or very negative attitudes towards intimacy etc) see sex as dirty, violent, and obscene, but most average people don't see it that way.

 

I don't have time to address the rest of the issues in your comment, but I felt it was important to clarify that part especially for you. Sex is beautiful and loving and special to the majority of humans, especially in the Western world.

[argar]

I think culture has a lot to do with how you view sex.

 

Being part of a more Spanish speaking culture, I know that because of religious indoctrination, there is a lot of people feeling guilty for their sexual appetites.

 

Not to mention the feelings of homosexual people, and other, that don't relate to this sociocultural upbringing.

 

Even in America I would argue that some people feel ashamed about their particular fetishes because some in our current society wouldn't accept them.

 

I don't see anything wrong with sex, but I think you also have to take into account the background of what sex means to that certain person.

 

We all have different feeling and attitudes towards sex because of our particular backgrounds.

 

 

 

 

 

[everywhere and nowhere]

7 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Is it so hard to accept that most sexuals just like fucking each other? 

We aren't, for the most part, questioning it. We just question this fixation on brutal sex.

Btw, I wouldn't say that I don't understand what do sexual people "get" from sex. I understand, I just don't want to go through this process because the idea of doing it personally feels frightening and disgusting to me. I just feel that brutal presentations of sex without any reservations are harmful.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

M'kay I've never watched porn or engaged in coitus but even I know porn is fake. I watch violent films, read and write violent stories and play violent games, but I'm not a violent person in real life - I cried when I accidentally stood on a snail once, a week ago I saved a bee from drowning in a paddling pool and a while ago I rehabilitated a dehydrated worm and released it back into my auntie's garden. What I'm getting at is that people seem to have a natural tendency to be violent, but thankfully nowadays we have harmless ways of expressing that. The fact that porn is violent actually might mean people are less violent in real life because all that energy has been used up in fantasy.

[Sally]

It's puzzling to me why there's such an emphasis on "understanding" why people do something/like something/don't like something.   If you don't want sex, and especially if you've never had it so you haven't had intimate knowledge of people who DO like and want it, there's really no way to understand how those people feel about it.  

 

Just accept that sexuals do want and like sex, and respect their feelings without trying to pry into their psyches.  The same goes for sexuals vis-a-vis asexuals.  

[Karst]

Ladies and gentle-neutrois, can we please stop trying to strangle each other through computer screens over differences in opinions?

[Cobie]

On 7/25/2018 at 1:28 AM, Sally said:

... Just accept that sexuals do want and like sex, and respect their feelings without trying to pry into their psyches.  The same goes for sexuals vis-a-vis asexuals.  

I totally agree with that. 😊

[Guest]

There are many reasons people like sex and many reasons people dislike it. If one is interested in that, then there is a lot of research on the matter. Some of it goes into very triggery content and TMI content. 

 

As for feeling sex is dirty etc ... that may be how many in Spain feel because of the focus on religion within the culture. Catholics especially tend to have a lot of guilt for their sexual appetites. However, I have not met anyone who wasnt indoctrinated by a strict religious code that felt that way. So, it is important to remember the background of who you are discussing it with. 

 

Also, sexual repression can cause issues in itself so might skew your outlook if you are only discussing things with a person who is morally against their own sexuality. 

[Guest]

Don't know to be honest. My masochism is interfering with my life (not to mention I'm just uncomfortable with it), and I'm seeking therapy for it.

[James121]

On 4/21/2018 at 6:46 PM, riekko said:

the woman screamed from pain.

With joy you mean

 

On 4/21/2018 at 6:46 PM, riekko said:

men hit, gag, choke, toss, pull hair, coerce, ejaculate on faces. 

Many woman love this

 

On 4/21/2018 at 6:46 PM, riekko said:

For example, why genintal mutilation is a thing?

Don’t go putting that one on men! Put it on culture! Woman are just as heavily involved in FGM forced marriage, honour killings as men.

 

So as for what I think of porn. If it got completely banned, I would lose any sleep. But I watch for pleasure when I fancy it.

 

 

[James121]

27 minutes ago, CBC said:

Absolutely, but you can bet you ass that such things almost certainly wouldn't exist without patriarchal societies existing in the first place.

Probably right but it’s not “men” that is the issue, it’s men of a certain type. And with every man of a certain type there is a woman of a certain type to match.

[Xstatic]

You just pulled a #notallmen and then went right into denying the existence of the extremely dominant misogyny and toxic masculinity that exists literally everywhere.  

 

Again with the urge to shake you dear James.  Or at least grab your cheeks and turn your face towards reality.  

 

[Fallen Unicorn]

4 minutes ago, CBC said:

Careful, he might actually enjoy that.

😂😂

[uhtred]

4 hours ago, CBC said:

Absolutely, but you can bet you ass that such things almost certainly wouldn't exist without patriarchal societies existing in the first place.

The great majority of societies have been patriarchal, so its difficult to tell what problems are specifically caused by that. 

 

Its not clear why most societies are patriarchal,or why agrarian societies tend to be much more so than are pastoral societies. .

 

 

 

[uhtred]

1 hour ago, ☆ﾟ°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

You just pulled a #notallmen and then went right into denying the existence of the extremely dominant misogyny and toxic masculinity that exists literally everywhere.  

 

Again with the urge to shake you dear James.  Or at least grab your cheeks and turn your face towards reality.  

 

The concept of #notallmen would be a good hotbox discussion. 

[chairdesklamp]

As I often notice since joining, @CBC and @... Star-asterisk... I have no idea how to tag you...

 

Anyway, as always, I like you two's posts best

 

 

[Xstatic]

9 hours ago, chairdesklamp said:

As I often notice since joining, @CBC and @... Star-asterisk... I have no idea how to tag you...

 

Anyway, as always, I like you two's posts best

 

 

😂😂 I know, right? I'm sorry!  It's so cute though!  

 

☆ﾟ°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

 

Highlight it and select copy link text.  That's the easiest way.  🙃

[Pandark]

Without tension between the sexes, humanity ceases to exist. At least, it would, were it not for science. Violence is only a symptom of this tension. I believe it at some point possible for our species to abandon sexuality, but tension would probably remain between individuals. Not necessarily a bad thing, there's much to learn from each other.

[Pandark]

2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Are you using 'tension' as a synonym for 'sexual attraction'?

Not exactly. It's hard to find a proper word, but 'sexual drift' may be a better synonym. 'Sexual attraction' wasn't always the default premise for sexual interaction.

 

Interestingly, though, it seems both genders have become more like the other gender since the 1950s. Men today have significantly lower testosterone levels, even.

[Pandark]

7 minutes ago, CBC said:

If heterosexual people completely stop fucking without birth control then humanity will be in trouble, but I don't know what sexual tension has to do with that. I've yet to become pregnant from sexual tension, lol. Oftentimes it's barely acknowledged openly, let alone acted upon in a way that creates kiddos.

Hmm.. from what I see most births result from natural urges, not careful planning.

By sexual drift I mean the urge to mate. This is not always a consensual thing, like in mutual sexual attraction. Looking at history, humanity hasn't been civilized for that long.

 

7 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

If you're comparing Madmen-esque USA with #metoo USA then maybe. 

 

Other times, places and cultures exist. 

Sure, but I'm referring specifically to the last 60-70 years. There are some radical changes, more prominent than anything that happened over the last millennia. Could be a side-effect of the tech era, or overpopulation, or something else.

 

4 minutes ago, CBC said:

But also, we're not going to abandon sexuality. People like sex. A lot.

Heh, I'm not telling anyone to give it up. I just think there's a slow natural process by which humans turn into skinny grey androgynous creatures. But hey, I'm more than a little bit crazy. 😄

[James121]

On 4/25/2019 at 4:09 PM, ☆ﾟ°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

You just pulled a #notallmen and then went right into denying the existence of the extremely dominant misogyny and toxic masculinity that exists literally everywhere.  

 

Again with the urge to shake you dear James.  Or at least grab your cheeks and turn your face towards reality.  

 

 

On 4/25/2019 at 5:22 PM, CBC said:

I notice he's not been back to refute this.

Oh I have no doubt that there has been a toxic masculinity in years gone past but it’s certainly not the case so much nowadays. It’s actually just as common if not more from what I have seen for women to gain unfair advantages over men due to an “under representation” of woman in certain roles in the workplace. 

Ive seen countless incompetent women promoted and getting certain roles in my workplace over men who have clearly been stronger candidates but hey, you won’t find many woman complaining about that injustice. Thankfully some do.

 

Lots of woman absolutely love equality. Right up to the point that true equality means choosing the best candidate for certain jobs even if the best candidate is another man. 

 

I’ll give you an example. In the company I work for there was an 3 day open event to try out a certain role. The open day was geared towards allowing people to experience this particular role, get to grips with what you’d be doing, get your face known with that department and lots of other great things. It’s a very popular role and many many people go for it all the time. However, the open event was advertised for woman and ethnic minority’s only. Did that unfair advantage deter people from going? What about true equality? Shouldn’t everyone be allowed to try it out? Nope! Loads of woman and ethnic minorities went along and had their work place experience at the expense of others who continued to manage the daily work demand in the office. 

 

We demand equality people! Right up until inequality is to our advantage. 

 

And then of course you have to consider the woman that play the sexist card role when they don’t get what they want.  

Do me a favour and when you try and turn me towards reality, turn yourself towards it too because far too many of you like crying wolf. 

 

[James121]

2 minutes ago, CBC said:

That's not equality. Wrong term, dude.

 

Chip on your shoulder?

No chip here. I just speak honestly without hiding behind things when it suits me.

[James121]

4 minutes ago, CBC said:

That's not equality. Wrong term, dude.

 

Chip on your shoulder?

How is it not equality?

 

Equality....the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities

[James121]

1 minute ago, CBC said:

You literally just gave me a scenario that's not equality. How is that equality??

Assuming we both understand equality to mean...the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities

 

A woman getting a job or opportunity over a man or several other men who were far better candidates just because she is a woman seems to fit duh?

[James121]

1 minute ago, CBC said:

...no?

Please explain.