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#GenderProblems


PixleyDust✨

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InfiniteNull
1 minute ago, Celyn said:

I thought I was the only person who did this! Except with me it's often forgetting which gender I am, or that I am a gender, or that gender exists. Yeah. I'm one confused noodle.

lol, I've only recently started experiencing it as I am not out at work, but I at least try to present somewhat genderqueer outside of work... even if I can't dress proper and am just in the most frumpy clothes I'll put on something to declare "not entirely a boy here, thx"... be it something pink, or a hair clip, or maybe some sort of accessory, or a cute sweater or shoes... anything... 

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anisotrophic
On 4/28/2018 at 12:02 AM, Pixley said:

This community needs shopping buddies, I swear. My heart aches when I read about this kind of stuff. UGH. 

 

Cis guys for the AFABS, and cis girls for the AMABS. 

 

They would be like our knowledgeable, friendly tour guides to the world of their gender, and our backup/support for awkward situations like this. 

 

*sigh* #friendgoals 

I was lucky to have my spouse help me through starting to buy men's clothes 4-5 years ago. I was so nervous! We went to the store together a couple times before I became confident on my own. In retrospect, I feel like my nervousness was a bit much, because I'm sure the reverse direction is so much harder.

 

On 4/30/2018 at 12:32 AM, Pixley said:

My heart goes out to you. We’ll always be here if and when you need support, some kind words, or just a cute/funny distraction, like this gif here:

 

I love how bizarre the Internet can be sometimes. 😆

Thanks so much for this! I anticipate an irritating time where people are annoyed/confused as I prefer different pronouns, but goals, goals, goals. This would be our last kid, and then I can consider hormones without any worries!

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ElasticPlanet
9 hours ago, InfiniteNull said:

forgetting entirely what gender you're presenting as

For me the situation was more like: not presenting as any gender until the age of 39. Everyone would have looked at me and said I was presenting as male, but that has nothing to do with my own state of mind and my reasons for doing what I was doing, which was basically a coping mechanism, not a gender presentation. I was getting by, only wearing the clothes I was offered, because I thought I was allowed no others.

 

Now that I actually know myself well enough to have a gender to present, I'm not really sure how to do it, and of course I'm surrounded by people who don't know how to read nonbinary anyway.

 

9 hours ago, InfiniteNull said:

I'll put on something to declare "not entirely a boy here, thx"...

That's what I've been doing more and more of the time. It's important for me to do it whether or not people seem to notice... but as they keep not noticing the frustration grows.

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ElasticPlanet
1 hour ago, anisotropic said:

I was lucky to have my spouse help me through starting to buy men's clothes 4-5 years ago. I was so nervous! We went to the store together a couple times before I became confident on my own. In retrospect, I feel like my nervousness was a bit much, because I'm sure the reverse direction is so much harder.

Really glad you had the right help as soon as you needed it! I've been going in the 'reverse direction' to you, as you put it, and I got a mixed bag of plus and minus points with all this. Going to bdsm events has probably helped my confidence a bit, but that was still no magic spell as this is a different situation. And I didn't have a clear idea of what I'd find or what the sizes meant. Here I was being read as male, in a (mostly) women's space. Not wanting to look nervous and conspicuous in their space - for their benefit as well as mine.

 

It's been getting easier quite quickly, but I'm not all the way there yet. When I go wearing the colourful skinny jeans I bought there before, I feel more at home there somehow. Even if that makes them more likely to wonder if I'm buying this stuff for myself.

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InfiniteNull
6 hours ago, ElasticPlanet said:

For me the situation was more like: not presenting as any gender until the age of 39. Everyone would have looked at me and said I was presenting as male, but that has nothing to do with my own state of mind and my reasons for doing what I was doing, which was basically a coping mechanism, not a gender presentation. I was getting by, only wearing the clothes I was offered, because I thought I was allowed no others.

 

Now that I actually know myself well enough to have a gender to present, I'm not really sure how to do it, and of course I'm surrounded by people who don't know how to read nonbinary anyway.

 

That's what I've been doing more and more of the time. It's important for me to do it whether or not people seem to notice... but as they keep not noticing the frustration grows.

I am starting to adopt the label demiagender (yay for a snowflakey gender lol... but it fits so I am happy with it)... and part of why I don't really identify as fully agender is because I have the opposite problem from you... I have spent much of my life from puberty on trying to represent gender characteristics that I know lots of little tricks to fake gender... In both directions... Some of those tricks I actually enjoy... are any of the behaviors sincere and my "true self"... not really... they're kind of performance... but I like the performance it's fun :) I feel like I'm accomplishing things when I pull it off. 

 

I definitely feel you on the not noticing part. Its something I struggle with, how do I make it obvious that I am rebelling and being gender-non-conforming without going so far that the poor non-ally-cishet (NACH?) folks around me have head explosions

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Lirpaderp
On 5/1/2018 at 7:29 AM, Celyn said:

I thought I was the only person who did this! Except with me it's often forgetting which gender I am, or that I am a gender, or that gender exists. Yeah. I'm one confused noodle.

I did that but I forgot my body is female. Which is extremely affirming and then disappointing because I still look like a girl.

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When your parents have helped you explain your identity to your maternal grandmother (technically they outed me, but I had been wanting to come out not knowing how to explain nonbinary to my maternal grandparents, let alone having multiple genders that I switch between, so I didn't really mind.) and then you're talking on the phone with her months later and she calls you a girl. Next time i talk to her I'm going to make a point of referring to myself with neutral language and pronouns.

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Also, when you have a crush on a girl in one of your classes who you barely know and as far as you know she thinks you're a cis girl, and you know she's bi because you had one of your friends at school ask around, but you don't want her to only like you because she doesn't know you're nonbinary, and even if you got up the courage to come out to her next time you managed to talk to her you have no idea how to flirt and/or ask someone out.

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The-world-is-quiet-here

@nelpogrando do you know that the girl you like doesn’t like nonbinary people? Idk how to explain this in a way that’s validating and not, like, patronizing. 

So the gist of what I was going to say is that sometimes bi people like one binary gender and nonbinary genders, or some bi people are technically pan (attracted to all a/genders) but prefer the bi label (two or more genders). 

That might not be how she uses it, I just figured I’d throw it out there.

 

It sounds from your message like you aren’t really friends with her? Maybe you could ask if she wanted to hang out, like as friends, and see how that goes. Or if you’re feeling bold, you could just.... ask her out (I know I didn’t clarify how to do that, I’m still thinking haha). 

 

PM me if you want? I’m trying to think about this, I just don’t quite know how to word it. :P 

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ElasticPlanet
On 02/05/2018 at 4:15 AM, InfiniteNull said:

I have spent much of my life from puberty on trying to represent gender characteristics that I know lots of little tricks to fake gender... In both directions... Some of those tricks I actually enjoy... are any of the behaviors sincere and my "true self"... not really... they're kind of performance...

You're right - this is a bit different from the coping strategies I ended up using. There are things I wanted (eg. clothes) that I avoided so that people wouldn't hassle me about them. I also seem to have taught myself to think about gender presentation issues as unspecifically as possible, as a way to try and bury the unsatisfied feelings. Which has made it much harder to figure out how I want to present myself now that I know I was never actually male. But unlike you I can't think of a single male gendery thing that I didn't naturally have but deliberately staged for other people to see. I can now see that I've done a little bit of that subconsciously, but never consciously.

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Lirpaderp

Lying in my bed about to fall asleep and realizing I'm still in my binder. And that I should probably take it off. But my bed is comfy and so is not having boobs, so idk.

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Celyn: The Lutening
3 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

Lying in my bed about to fall asleep and realizing I'm still in my binder. And that I should probably take it off. But my bed is comfy and so is not having boobs, so idk.

You're probably asleep now but I hope you took it off! For sleeping without feeling boobs so much sports bras are where it's at.

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On 5/3/2018 at 8:32 PM, The-world-is-quiet-here said:

@nelpogrando do you know that the girl you like doesn’t like nonbinary people? Idk how to explain this in a way that’s validating and not, like, patronizing. 

So the gist of what I was going to say is that sometimes bi people like one binary gender and nonbinary genders, or some bi people are technically pan (attracted to all a/genders) but prefer the bi label (two or more genders). 

That might not be how she uses it, I just figured I’d throw it out there.

 

It sounds from your message like you aren’t really friends with her? Maybe you could ask if she wanted to hang out, like as friends, and see how that goes. Or if you’re feeling bold, you could just.... ask her out (I know I didn’t clarify how to do that, I’m still thinking haha). 

 

PM me if you want? I’m trying to think about this, I just don’t quite know how to word it. :P 

I’m aware of the nuances of bisexuality, I just don’t know this girl’s context for identifying as bi. I’ve been trying to talk to her here and there before class starts, but I barely know her, so I don’t want to ask her out unless I can figure out how to do it in a way that the other kids in my class won’t notice.

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nerdperson777
20 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

Lying in my bed about to fall asleep and realizing I'm still in my binder. And that I should probably take it off. But my bed is comfy and so is not having boobs, so idk.

I've done all the things people have said to be unsafe, sleeping in it, exercising in it, wearing it for 16 hours, etc.  I don't even want to wear it anymore.  I just want to be flat without doing anything.

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Lirpaderp
22 hours ago, nerdperson777 said:

I've done all the things people have said to be unsafe, sleeping in it, exercising in it, wearing it for 16 hours, etc.  I don't even want to wear it anymore.  I just want to be flat without doing anything.

You aren't supposed to exercise in it? Whoops, too bad. I wear it whenever I'm awake. It doesn't make me completely flat, but it does hold them down so I don't feel them moving or sticking out as much. Someone asked if I thought about getting a binder while I was wearing my binder... I wish it made my boobs disappear completely but it doesn't yet I still can't go a day without it.

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scarletlatitude
On 4/22/2018 at 1:59 AM, Celyn said:

Actually really, really liking your birth name but just wishing it wasn't so heavily gendered as female. 

I feel this. I'm genderfluid and when I swing to the male side, I'm like grrr such a female name gahh why. :( 

 

 

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nerdperson777
7 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

You aren't supposed to exercise in it? Whoops, too bad. I wear it whenever I'm awake. It doesn't make me completely flat, but it does hold them down so I don't feel them moving or sticking out as much. Someone asked if I thought about getting a binder while I was wearing my binder... I wish it made my boobs disappear completely but it doesn't yet I still can't go a day without it.

I've started to feel some shortness of breath from wearing it, and I didn't want to really wear one anymore so off it goes. I only wear a light compression tank when I coach so that my chest doesn't give me away. I'm not big, but it's a little too far outward to be a normal "male" chest. 

 

6 hours ago, scarletlatitude said:

I feel this. I'm genderfluid and when I swing to the male side, I'm like grrr such a female name gahh why. :( 

You could have different names for your identities. Like different personalities in one person. 

 

I remembered a problem from a month ago. Our neighbors asked us to watch their dog for a few days while they went on vacation. After they returned, they invited my dad and I into their house to talk. I'm obviously talking in a low pitch and pass as male. But I have no idea what my dad has told them of what my gender was. I found out that my dad has been misgendering me. He really doesn't care. Reputation is more important. 

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scarletlatitude
16 hours ago, nerdperson777 said:

You could have different names for your identities. Like different personalities in one person. 

 

That's why I like "scarlet" because it's just a color... but it also COULD be a name.... :ph34r:

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InfiniteNull

When your career is at a turning point and you consider throwing everything away and starting over again just so that you can be your true self, hoping that your past accomplishments will still count for something in a new company/industry/part of the world. 

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Being amazed at how good your new binder is and wearing it to work to feel more confident.......but then getting referred to as female way more than you usually do because it's really busy and you have to shout over the noise to get people's attention, giving yourself away as a girl before they even see you.

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Celyn: The Lutening
2 hours ago, Zsareph said:

Being amazed at how good your new binder is and wearing it to work to feel more confident.......but then getting referred to as female way more than you usually do because it's really busy and you have to shout over the noise to get people's attention, giving yourself away as a girl before they even see you.

My job involves shouting as well and I feel you, bro (is it OK to use bro? "Sibling" doesn't have quite the same ring to it :P) I try to do a more male-sounding shout and my voice cracks. Even though my voice isn't high-pitched, and in normal conversation or singing it's very androgynous (yay!), if I shout that goes out the window.

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26 minutes ago, Celyn said:

My job involves shouting as well and I feel you, bro (is it OK to use bro? "Sibling" doesn't have quite the same ring to it :P) I try to do a more male-sounding shout and my voice cracks. Even though my voice isn't high-pitched, and in normal conversation or singing it's very androgynous (yay!), if I shout that goes out the window.

Bro's fine :) now I'm wondering if the gender neutral version would be sibling or just sib XD. Yeah I seem to sound more androgynous when speaking or singing (I say seem because I'm aware it's actually quite a bit higher than it sounds to me) but the minute I try to speak up or shout it's so obviously feminine. I also cringe when I realise I've accidentally slipped into my "polite and friendly" tone of voice when talking to someone because it's noticeably higher than my normal pitch :/

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Celyn: The Lutening

Yep :) Slipping into "girly voice" when trying to be friendly is the worst. Excuse me, brain, please explain why??? I can be friendly just as well with a deep voice, thanks.

Oh, and I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but everybody's voice sounds deeper than they think. We hear the deepest frequencies in our voice because they get transmitted through our skull etc. but they don't make it into the air.

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InfiniteNull

So much voice stuff... I was in my car talking to myself (as I often do lately, for voice reasons) and I found the perfect spot. Everything I said sounded perfect even if I used language that was a little masculine I still had this 60% feminine / 40% androgyne voice that really felt like me... and then... I needed to call someone, I used my typical voice for a moment and I couldn't re-capture the sound... it was gone... and I couldn't get it back... 

 

What I don't know is... was it my voice that was perfect, or was it my perception that was finally accepting the way I sound... it's tough to tell because brains are stupid about perception and such... 

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nerdperson777
1 hour ago, scarletlatitude said:

That's why I like "scarlet" because it's just a color... but it also COULD be a name.... :ph34r:

I met a girl about two years ago named Scarlett.  She wasn't trans but she was an international student, pansexual but mostly gay, with many queer friends.  I briefly lived with her and her two trans dating friends during the summer.  They were nice people, but probably not my kind of friend group.  They were way too open about things compared to my very introverted group.  No one knocked to go to the bathroom, which has a broken lock.  Where's privacy?

 

Well my voice moment was a positive thing.  I had my work presentation on yesterday and people said that my presentation was really good.  Everyone was complimenting me on it despite me being nervous the whole time.  No one even had to tell me to talk louder like what usually happens when I present.  Maybe my lower voice is making me more audible in terms of volume.  My voice is still weird in many places.  I never have a consistent tone.  I could be in baritone pitch level or tenor/kid pitch.  I don't really know if doing that gives me away.  In the car, I sing by myself to retain my range.  I'm practicing on a Youtuber guy who has an insane three octave range so I just follow that to preserve mine.  I'm not really sure what gives people their range.  Is it genetic?  I've been able to talk/sing in tenor and soprano range even before T.  Now I can go down to baritone level and it's just a little more effort to access that higher range but I can still do it pretty easily, as long as I don't have a cough or something.

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Neutral nerd

I don't actually mind the wide hip bones of being a girl, but the fat distribution being unequal is frustrating. Its difficult to find any clothes that fit without hours of shopping, especially since location never seems to correlate with size. And I want the waist a specific way so I don't get embarrassed in public... I don't even try swimming in pools anymore because the fat disgusts me. Most I do is swim at a beach with shorts and rashguard overtop, but its impossible to find any good swimshorts because in women section they're 2 inches long, and men section they're difficult to fit over my hips. Why can't society try to simplify clothes so we can actually know what we want??? :( 

 

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Celyn: The Lutening
1 hour ago, Neutral nerd said:

I don't actually mind the wide hip bones of being a girl, but the fat distribution being unequal is frustrating. Its difficult to find any clothes that fit without hours of shopping, especially since location never seems to correlate with size. And I want the waist a specific way so I don't get embarrassed in public... I don't even try swimming in pools anymore because the fat disgusts me. Most I do is swim at a beach with shorts and rashguard overtop, but its impossible to find any good swimshorts because in women section they're 2 inches long, and men section they're difficult to fit over my hips. Why can't society try to simplify clothes so we can actually know what we want??? :( 

 

I swim in boardies and a rashie. My boardies are almost knee-length, white with blue flower outlines like a hawaiian print. And...I don't know whether they're "men's" or "women's" because I got them from an op shop. All I know is they fit and I have really wide hips. So @Neutral nerd good boardies are out there, you just have to keep looking. My rashie is just a really cheap black men's small from Target.

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PixleyDust✨

I’ve got another one, and it just happens to be the reason I haven’t commented on here in a little while:

 

When you think you have your gender identity figured out, but then you have a mental and emotional breakdown because going back and forth between genders is more emotionally draining than you thought it would be. Then you obsess over why something that’s supposed to be freeing is feeling more like a burden, and you feel like a fraud which makes you feel even worse and now you just feel pressured to present a certain way in order to prove to others and yourself “you’re that identity” because that’s what you told everyone you were because it seemed right at the time. And to top it off, all of those things has triggered your OCD, Anxiety, Depression, and IBS ALL AT ONCE AND YOU STILL HAVE TO GO TO CLASS.

 

Oh yeah, nothing like crying in the bathroom before class because your reality is crumbling.

 

GOOD TIMES. 🙄

 

Thankfully, I’ve gained a little more solid ground since then. Still hesitant to say I’m 100%, but I’m cautiously optimistic I’ll get there eventually. 

 

Contemplating if bigender is a more accurate term for me than actually straight up genderfluid seems to help. Would explain why I seem to oscillate so frequently between male and female, experience very little if any dysphoria, am fine with female pronouns, and why I’ll feel like a girl, a tomboy or like a femme boy, but never completely a “guy” or a “dude”. And also why dressing/going completely male doesn’t seem to feel right. 

 

And identifying as bigender, I feel like it would make figuring out presentation/pronouns so much easier. Blend female/male clothing, go by female pronouns (since boy side is super femme anyways), and just either up, downplay, or forget the makeup entirely. That’s really the only thing I would need to decide, not who I am that day, which I got to say is a TREMENDOUS relief. 

 

Don’t have to figure out if I’m a girl today, or if I’m a boy today. I’m both pretty much all the time, just feel one more strongly than the other sometimes.

 

Also, questioning your gender identity leads to long rants like this. DAMN. 🤣

 

tl;dr When your #genderproblems causes #mentalproblems. Yikes.

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InfiniteNull

I relate to much of what you say regarding the strugle @Pixley. I have a lot going on in my life that has been tearing me down and making things incredibly difficult so what do I do? put gender BACK into the mix. As if I didn't have enough to deal with. There are parts of it that are great. The relief about being able to be honest with people, the gender euphoria feelings you get when you're around people that honor your identity, the fun times when appearance goes well (although I find this is rare for me in any gender presentation)... The problem is, when you're being yourself you can't ignore the fact that being trans is UNCOMFORTABLE... it is stressful, confusing, difficult, and bothersome... that's why it's called "Dysphoria". 

 

Funny that word Dysphoria... when I first started talking to my therapist about gender (I am no longer seeing her) she really wasn't knowledgeable enough about it and she tried to confront my use of the word "Dysphoria"... she's like "it's intense discomfort!" omg!!11!1!1... In my head: "No shit Sherlock"...... I mean really the dictionary defines it as "a state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction with life." which I think lacks the intensity of some of the feelings... but still... 

 

I guess the point I wanted to share... is that I feel the pain too... it drags me down, I cry ALLLL the time but I am already OK with being a crybaby :P I just try to avoid doing it in front of executives at work lol... I find myself pushing to be me and then getting even more insecure due to internalized transphobia. and... meh... I just get depressed AF over stuff... 

 

There is light somewhere in that tunnel though... I know those happy times are in there somewhere and I've seen them and I'll feel them again. Life gets better even when it seems like it'll permanently suck!

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Celyn: The Lutening

I totally understand where you're coming from @Pixley, non-binary genders are way harder to figure out. For me it was people saying "So you like to present androgynously. Why can't you be content with being a tomboy, i.e. a butch girl?" 

 

Because I'm not, I'm a feminine bloke. Which is something different entirely.

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