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Can romantic feelings develop over time?


Tarfeather

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On 23.4.2018 at 2:10 PM, ryn2 said:

1)  Assuming you ultimately prove compatible, do you see yourself as that someone?  Since you know this about her, if you’re not she will likely be very displeased down the road if you enter into something with her anyway.

 

2)  I get the “not looking for a romantic fling part,” and that could be the whole explanation, but “not wanting to be seduced” and just wanting a man to marry and have children with could be the intro to James’ situation...

Could I see myself as that someone? To say that would be an understatement. In general, I'm very neutral / skeptical about the thought of having children, but with someone like her, I'd definitely want to. She's a very caring, empathic and responsible person, and it's clear that having children is something she really wants. Not just the idea of it, the whole process of caring for a child is something she desires, and even now she takes care of other people's kids whenever she gets the chance. Helps being the oldest of eight siblings, I suppose.

 

As for the possibility of a platonic marriage.. I'm honestly not scared. But the reason is obviously that I'm aware and mentally prepared. Any kind of "sex after marriage" proposal is not going to be something I'd agree to, being fully aware that that's not a promise anyone can make. And giving up sex to be with someone who would make an amazing partner, and an amazing mother for my children, is honestly not too bad a deal from where I'm standing. I don't have high expectations.

 

 

Anyway, recently I asked her for a phone call, because I was feeling down and wanted to explain to her what was going on with me. I didn't end up explaining that, because the phone call itself was so enjoyable, and we ended up just chatting for a while, after which I felt much better, and also clearer on where we stand.

 

I think I've been worrying over nothing. I'm starting to realize that I trust her as a friend. Despite my many bad experiences with other women, I sense that she's different, and that I don't need to be worried. I've also grown a lot more confident, about my own ability to judge and understand things. So I'll be questioning myself a whole lot less from here on out.

 

 

On 23.4.2018 at 12:49 PM, gaogao said:

Man.. All of these non-verbal cues are way too much for me. I would not have understood any of them, and when I was young and naive I may have done some of the things Rapunzel has done with Tar that people are interpreting as "it means she's throwing herself at you" to people that I definitely was not throwing myself at....  but I guess I'm the opposite of an average girl.

 

The more I read this thread the more relieved I feel that I am now in a relationship with someone so I don't have to worry about giving out the wrong vibes or not reading the vibes people are giving me and then getting into a situation that I thought was out of nowhere but everyone else might have thought I was asking for.

 

Blargh.

Agreed. Honestly, going by indicators like that is rather superficial, and doesn't close to account for the depth of humans. And I'm pretty sure that she's not consciously giving any cues, nor consciously avoiding to give any, which means all these indicators don't really mean anything. Except that she likes me (in whichever way), and that she at the very least isn't uncomfortable with my subtle romantic advances on her. But nothing beyond that.

 

This whole debate about whether I should try to kiss her is amusing, really. I don't really think it'd damage anything, to be honest. I think she trusts me enough that even if I tried to go in for a kiss, she would be comfortable just gently rejecting me. But I don't see why I'd do it to begin with? It seems much more uncomplicated to just.. ask, or explain your feelings, or anything. Heck, as @FictoVore. suggested, even a handwritten letter would be so much more romantic than just randomly trying to kiss her, IMO.

 

Maybe people like me, and Rapunzel, and some of the people posting on this thread, are just different from Telecaster and the kind of women he has experience with? I don't know. It's weird to get such differing opinions.

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16 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

Maybe people like me, and Rapunzel, and some of the people posting on this thread, are just different from Telecaster and the kind of women he has experience with? I don't know.

I think that’s exactly it.  People are different, with different preferences, and what sounds great to one might totally put off (or more likely just puzzle) another.  And vice versa, I’m sure.  Matching the approach to what you really want seems to be least likely to lead to disappointment.

 

I’m glad talking with her brightened your day.

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, Tarfeather said:

But I don't see why I'd do it to begin with? It seems much more uncomplicated to just.. ask, or explain your feelings, or anything. Heck, as @FictoVore. suggested, even a handwritten letter would be so much more romantic than just randomly trying to kiss her,

It depends. Kissing her wouldn't be 'random'. It would be after the build up of reciprocal implicit hints and offers and acceptances, and at a moment where it seems like the next obvious step. 

 

Asking, or writing a letter, or planting it all out explicitly could be romantic if it's done right, but the basic difference is that kissing is showing, not telling. There's an emotional tension which gets deliciously resolved with far more impact than just using words. 'Telling' instead, would be like listening to a bit of music and the right at the point where it's just going to start to build to a climax, the orchestra stops, and the conductor turns to the audience, and explains how the composer arranged a set of key changes and crescendos, then everyone goes home. Anticlimactic and mundane.

 

You're clearly right - some of the people on this thread are different to my experience, but I honestly think most people, and as a broad tendency, most women, would hugely prefer action not words.

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This feels a bit more like personality type than orientation... specifically sensing versus thinking.  Broadly speaking sensors would rather do/experience and thinkers would rather, well, think (and discuss).

 

The S personality types are collectively more common.

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12 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

You're clearly right - some of the people on this thread are different to my experience, but I honestly think most people, and as a broad tendency, most women, would hugely prefer action not words.

I would have said women love romantic gestures and words and get tired of men throwing themselves at them - you hear so often about women wanting things to be more emotional without so much importance placed on the merely physical (without anything else behind those actions I mean). I think if we could ask 100 regular women right now whether they would prefer a hand written, well thought out letter confessing feelings of love, or for a guy who likes them to just kiss them randomly, at least half would prefer the letter because it shows true depth of feeling well beyond just a physical action (because any man can do a physical action if he's horny or after sex or whatever, words show far more depth of feeling!!). I think we're both right though for the specific type of women we have in mind, we're just thinking of very different women!! Hah :P Tar seems to have the right idea though and I hope it works out for him regardless of what he does (as long as he doesn't try to grab her boob randomly or something haha - whatever happens don't randomly grab her boob Tar!) :P

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12 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

The S personality types are collectively more common.

I doubted myself and checked... yes, the S types comprise almost 3/4 of people.

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, FictoVore. said:

I would have said women love romantic gestures and words and get tired of men throwing themselves at them - you hear so often about women wanting things to be more emotional without so much importance placed on the merely physical (without anything else behind those actions I mean). I think if we could ask 100 regular women right now whether they would prefer a hand written, well thought out letter confessing feelings of love, or for a guy who likes them to just kiss them randomly, at least half would prefer the letter because it shows true depth of feeling well beyond just a physical action (because any man can do a physical action if he's horny or after sex or whatever, words show far more depth of feeling!!). I think we're both right though for the specific type of women we have in mind, we're just thinking of very different women!! Hah :P Tar seems to have the right idea though and I hope it works out for him regardless of what he does (as long as he doesn't try to grab her boob randomly or something haha - whatever happens don't randomly grab her boob Tar!) :P

I agree. I'd just say that the kissing isn't random, it's the nonverbal culmination of a lot communication.

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1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

This feels a bit more like personality type than orientation... specifically sensing versus thinking.  Broadly speaking sensors would rather do/experience and thinkers would rather, well, think (and discuss).

 

The S personality types are collectively more common.

Is this Myers-Briggs? I thought it was "Sensing vs Intuition" / "Feeling vs Thinking" or are you thinking of something else? :o From your description it sounds like I would be a Thinker because I definitely prefer to think and discuss something before jumping in, but when I did the test I'm pretty sure I got Sensing and Feeling...

 

15 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I agree. I'd just say that the kissing isn't random, it's the nonverbal culmination of a lot communication.

Hmm. I don't doubt that this is true from the way people have responded here, but it definitely looks like this sort of nonverbal communication really wouldn't work for some types of people (like me) and it's hard for me to get my head around the concept;; Now I wonder how many cues I've missed in my life that just went right over my head :lol:  

 

But hey, I learn something new every day I guess. :huh:

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55 minutes ago, gaogao said:

 

Is this Myers-Briggs? I thought it was "Sensing vs Intuition" / "Feeling vs Thinking" or are you thinking of something else? :o From your description it sounds like I would be a Thinker because I definitely prefer to think and discuss something before jumping in, but when I did the test I'm pretty sure I got Sensing and Feeling...

 

Hmm. I don't doubt that this is true from the way people have responded here, but it definitely looks like this sort of nonverbal communication really wouldn't work for some types of people (like me) and it's hard for me to get my head around the concept;; Now I wonder how many cues I've missed in my life that just went right over my head :lol:  

 

But hey, I learn something new every day I guess. :huh:

You’re totally right.  I should not post on a short night of sleep. :)  I meant sensing v. intuiting (which is an internal-to-the-head function, rather than an external one).

 

No idea how I got “think” out of N.

 

I still think Sensors (whose preferred source of information is their senses) tend to be doers and to prefer nonverbal evidence whereas iNtuitors (whose preferred source of information is their minds) are less likely to prefer starting with a kiss to starting with a letter or talk.

 

I find that sometimes when I read descriptions of sexual condict; writers talk (favorably) a lot about smell, taste, and touch, whereas those are distractors to me.

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2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

I doubted myself and checked... yes, the S types comprise almost 3/4 of people.

I was right to doubt - just wrong on what!:lol:

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12 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

You’re totally right.  I should not post on a short night of sleep. :)  I meant sensing v. intuiting (which is an internal-to-the-head function, rather than an external one).

 

No idea how I got “think” out of N.

 

I still think Sensors (whose preferred source of information is their senses) tend to be doers and to prefer nonverbal evidence whereas iNtuitors (whose preferred source of information is their minds) are less likely to prefer starting with a kiss to starting with a letter or talk.

 

I find that sometimes when I read descriptions of sexual condict; writers talk (favorably) a lot about smell, taste, and touch, whereas those are distractors to me.

Haha it's okay! I was wracking my brain trying to figure out what you were talking about but this definitely makes a bit more sense now.

 

As for S/N... I remember that my scores for S/N were extremely close - I did this test at an office workshop with a supervisor who said that with the scores I had, I could probably be either one and that I should choose which one i thought "suited me more" for my final Type. At the time I remember choosing S because I couldn't figure out the clear line between these two things or what they really meant, but maybe on balance i might actually be a bit more N. 

 

who knows.... a lot of people are pretty skeptical about Myers-Briggs but it can sometimes be fairly useful to think about.

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5 minutes ago, gaogao said:

Haha it's okay! I was wracking my brain trying to figure out what you were talking about but this definitely makes a bit more sense now.

 

As for S/N... I remember that my scores for S/N were extremely close - I did this test at an office workshop with a supervisor who said that with the scores I had, I could probably be either one and that I should choose which one i thought "suited me more" for my final Type. At the time I remember choosing S because I couldn't figure out the clear line between these two things or what they really meant, but maybe on balance i might actually be a bit more N. 

 

who knows.... a lot of people are pretty skeptical about Myers-Briggs but it can sometimes be fairly useful to think about.

Nope, I was just flat-out wrong.

 

I’m not sure I subscribe to everything MBTI is about, or to Jungian thought in general, but it does provide a handy common framework for discussion (e.g., introversion v. extraversion).

 

I always test at or very near the middle for T/F and P/J, but strongly N and I.

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I just know I could get a kiss from almost any straight man probably without much effort (one of the 'perks' of being female I suppose, haha) but only a man who truly cares about me and wants to be close with me emotionally, not just physically, will take the time to write me a love letter :wub: 

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Telecaster68

That seems a bit transactional to me, rather than based on mutual feelings. 

 

The build up to the kiss is all about taking the time and care, on both sides. It's not some random, predatory, opportunistic thing - for one thing, Tar's clearly not like that. 

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8 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

I just know I could get a kiss from almost any straight man probably without much effort (one of the 'perks' of being female I suppose, haha) but only a man who truly cares about me and wants to be close with me emotionally, not just physically, will take the time to write me a love letter :wub: 

This reminds me that a guy once wrote me a romantic poem about fairies (?) and I didn't even get that was a love confession.. so I might actually be quite hopeless. ..... :mellow:

 

15 hours ago, ryn2 said:

I always test at or very near the middle for T/F and P/J, but strongly N and I.

 I tested very near the middle for everything except Introversion... I'm still not 100% certain on how all the other letters work :lol: 

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, gaogao said:

This reminds me that a guy once wrote me a romantic poem about fairies (?)

... and even if you had realised his intention, and not been lesbian, the whole fairy thing might've been a tad offputting.

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7 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

... and even if you had realised his intention, and not been lesbian, the whole fairy thing might've been a tad offputting.

Y'know, I tried to offer some kind criticism about the subject matter being kind of trite but I think he fancied himself the next Edmund Spencer.

 

(He did actually ask my friends how to get through to me on "matters of the heart", which is why I realised later he was probably trying to get at something with the poem, but that's only in retrospect.....)

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On 4/26/2018 at 2:07 AM, FictoVore. said:

I just know I could get a kiss from almost any straight man probably without much effort (one of the 'perks' of being female I suppose, haha) but only a man who truly cares about me and wants to be close with me emotionally, not just physically, will take the time to write me a love letter :wub: 

Cancel all my previous posts on this thread. Ficto is right.

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Tarfeather

Well, uh, update time I guess. This is a nice opportunity to compare speculation with reality.

 

Met Rapunzel today. We had a good time. Also, gave her a letter with some "poetry" (if one can call it that) about my feelings, and also point blank explained that I "wanted to be with her". Her response was that she didn't know what I meant by that, which is fair really, since I don't know myself. Anyway, I essentially realized that in terms of feelings or attraction, there isn't much there on her side. This was confirmed later, when she explained that she hardly knows me yet, and that it's too early for her. She also explained that it was difficult because she doesn't have much time for us to get to know each other. She also said that she was unsure herself, that to some extent she was curious about finding out what a relationship was like, but that also she might just feel pressured to try it by friends and so on.

 

So the upside is that she was very honest, fair, straightforward, and reflective. No beating around the bush. No trying to shut me down, or negate what I was feeling. She actually said that she felt sorry that I had developed feelings so early, and that she didn't return them. Really, she is such an amazing person. There is a lot that could be said about long term compatibility of our personalities, potential for a deep friendship or relationship based in more subtle things than romantic feelings. However..

 

 

None of that seems very relevant to me at the moment. My mind seems to be completely consumed by how much I desire her. You know, it was pretty warm today, and she is a person with the literal mantra of "The less I wear, the better". And yeah, she was wearing a very revealing dress today that also happened to look really good on her. I don't think I ever stopped being amazed just looking at her.

 

And then there was this time I helped her with her school work? Like, literal reversal of the "Pretend to study with someone to hit on them" trope, where instead I hit on her beforehand, and then she was like "Want to help me study instead?" and I was like "Okay". Anyway, that was actually a really nice experience, to be able to sit so close by her, and admire her beauty as she was concentrating. And she didn't seem to mind. In fact, it seemed very.. relaxed, very intimate. There were several moments there when it felt like every cell in my body demanded that I throw myself onto her. Was nice to be able to apply the training of 3+ years with an asexual, and retain a presence of mind and mentally remain with her. She actually really seemed to enjoy that session, and immediately suggested that I could sometime take my own work, and we could study together in the same room.

 

Anyway, my point is.. Whatever I think of my chances with her rationally, my desire for her just kind of drowns out everything else. But she's not currently interested in me. And due to all these years with an asexual, that doesn't even bother me that much. But it's almost like she's trying to talk herself into liking me? And yeah, after several years with an asexual, I also don't want that. I don't want her to talk herself into wanting me, I want her to just want me. If that makes any sense.

 

Please advise.

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Telecaster68

So the whole getting changed in front of you and sending you photos was naivete? Hmmmm.... 

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12 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

So the whole getting changed in front of you and sending you photos was naivete? Hmmmm.... 

I think we're getting old Tele, too old to be able to get into this kind of behaviour of the Young Ones. <_<

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Telecaster68
48 minutes ago, Nidwin said:

I think we're getting old Tele, too old to be able to get into this kind of behaviour of the Young Ones. <_<

Or possibly too cynical. 

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15 hours ago, Tarfeather said:

Met Rapunzel today. We had a good time. Also, gave her a letter with some "poetry" (if one can call it that) about my feelings, and also point blank explained that I "wanted to be with her". Her response was that she didn't know what I meant by that, which is fair really, since I don't know myself. Anyway, I essentially realized that in terms of feelings or attraction, there isn't much there on her side. This was confirmed later, when she explained that she hardly knows me yet, and that it's too early for her. She also explained that it was difficult because she doesn't have much time for us to get to know each other. She also said that she was unsure herself, that to some extent she was curious about finding out what a relationship was like, but that also she might just feel pressured to try it by friends and so on.

AII I can say is thank God you didn't just go in for a kiss!! It's much better this way as you couId both taIk about things and be as open as possible. If you'd just dove in for a kiss though she may have been reaIIy freaked or upset given her Iack of feelings so I definitely think you did the right thing! I certainIy wasn't getting strong attraction vibes (on her side) from what you were saying, but I think you did the best thing possible given the circumstances as I don't think you couId have gone on pretending you didn't have feelings.

 

13 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

So the whole getting changed in front of you and sending you photos was naivete? Hmmmm.... 

I didn't get 'attraction' out of those actions the way Tar described them. He would have KNOWN if she was trying to send 'fIirty' photos because she would have sucked her fingers, exposed parts of herself, that kind of stuff. It sounded Iike she was just sending regular pics though which a Iot of people do these days if they're friends because apps make it so fun and easy to do. And it sounded more Iike she got changed where Tar might see if he Iooked without realIy thinking about it, her assuming they were friends and having grown up around so many siblings. If she'd wanted that to go further she would have climbed into bed with him or beckoned him into her room or something. It sounds Iike she IegitimateIy thought they were friends and is one of those girIs who isn't uncomfortable with her body. That's what I got from everything he said anyway.

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Tarfeather
1 hour ago, FictoVore. said:

AII I can say is thank God you didn't just go in for a kiss!!

Nah, is fine. I actually subtly brought that topic up with her in a joking manner. Her response was, "That wouldn't have been a problem, I'd just have gotten away, I'm really good at getting away!". Whatever that means. :P

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Telecaster68

It means she confuses the fuck out of men, knows it, and enjoys it, I suspect. 

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Tarfeather

Yeah, because women have to police their actions to ensure nothing they do can be taken to mean that they're coming on to someone..

 

2 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

given her Iack of feelings

That's maybe not an entirely accurate way to describe it. If that were the case, she would simply rebuff all my romantic advances, but she doesn't. There's more nuance to it. Maybe you could say, she's curious, but also very guarded. Maybe she does some things that could be taken as showing interest, just to experiment with how that feels, but it's not actually persistent interest. Something like that? At any rate, I do feel treated a little unfairly. There are some contradictions in what she's saying. Like when she said "It feels like we've already known each other for a long time" the first time we met, and now when I explain my interest in her, she says "We hardly know each other". That doesn't exactly add up. Nothing malicious I'm sure, more like she seems a little confused about it herself, and I don't think she's being entirely honest with herself about that.

 

But for me it's the same, I realize. I just wanted to try this, to show very serious interest in her, and to be completely open about that. She kind of got cold feet at that, which is fine, but now I've also somewhat lost interest in her. In the sense of, now I no longer feel like she's the one and only person I want to be with. That's probably better for the both of us.

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Telecaster68

It's probably not malicious but it does seem thoughtless at the very least. 

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Telecaster68

Although given she said she's good at getting away, she clearly knows something's going on, so not entirely thoughtless, and not in a good way. 

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