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Can romantic feelings develop over time?


Tarfeather

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I dunno, Tele.. I get what you're saying, but I doubt I'm compatible to be emotionally close with any person who's not into earnest talks anyway. I tried that once and it totally flopped because it makes me feel like I'm not being taken seriously. Also, I don't understand why earnest talks should come across as unromantic, weird and full on? To me it seems the opposite, that during those moments you bare your soul, and if not romantic at least this can be very emotionally touching.

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44 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

I dunno, Tele.. I get what you're saying, but I doubt I'm compatible to be emotionally close with any person who's not into earnest talks anyway. I tried that once and it totally flopped because it makes me feel like I'm not being taken seriously. Also, I don't understand why earnest talks should come across as unromantic, weird and full on? To me it seems the opposite, that during those moments you bare your soul, and if not romantic at least this can be very emotionally touching.

The Iast three guys I've been with (onIine onIy though) aII began with souI baring conversations and if we'd been in person it wouId have been the same (a kiss wouId have pushed me away). I find those conversations where you become  vuInerabIe and bare your souIs to each other to be to most romanticaIIy intimate ways to move a friendship into the 'more than friends' zone.. rejection through words is aIso a Iot easier to take than someone rejecting me physicaIIy (one guy I was crushing on here rejected me and just having my words rejected was awkward enough haha!). There's no guarantee she's anything Iike me of course but being a virgin etc at her age makes me wonder if she's quite different from the average sexuaI woman as I outIined in my previous comment. It's quite common for women  to find words extremeIy romantic anyway so if you think you might be more comfortabIe with words (or something Iike a hand-written Ietter which she'd find very caring and speciaI I'm sure, Iots of women *adore* that kind of thing) then I don't think it wouId do any harm to use words instead of physicaI actions (to begin with I mean!)

 

Just my opinion though and hey I couId be totaIIy wrong about her :o

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1 hour ago, Tarfeather said:

but I doubt I'm compatible to be emotionally close with any person who's not into earnest talks anyway.

Yep that's extremeIy important to me too. If someone I'm becoming cIose to isn't going to activeIy desire and enjoy earnest taIks then there's no way we couId be emotionaIIy or even intimateIy compatible (because taIking is a very important aspect of intimacy for me as weII as being important for ...weII, everything eIse!)

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, Tarfeather said:

I dunno, Tele.. I get what you're saying, but I doubt I'm compatible to be emotionally close with any person who's not into earnest talks anyway. I tried that once and it totally flopped because it makes me feel like I'm not being taken seriously. Also, I don't understand why earnest talks should come across as unromantic, weird and full on? To me it seems the opposite, that during those moments you bare your soul, and if not romantic at least this can be very emotionally touching.

I guess the difference is whether they just emerge because you're both very comfortable with each other, which yes, would be romantic; or if they're done a pre-arranged, almost formal way and you get the impression they might just fire up powerpoint presentation at any moment. In other words, whether it's a natural, spontaneous(ish) interaction, or an earnest infodump. 

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7 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I guess the difference is whether they just emerge because you're both very comfortable with each other, which yes, would be romantic; or if they're done a pre-arranged, almost formal way and you get the impression they might just fire up powerpoint presentation at any moment. In other words, whether it's a natural, spontaneous(ish) interaction, or an earnest infodump. 

My first romantic decIaration to my partner was Iike 2,500 words Iong at Ieast and I carefuIIy thought out every aspect of it ..fortunateIy he finds carefuIIy pIanned infodumps arousing and incredibIy romantic :P (to him, it's a sign that I truIy care and am not just after physicaI stuff and I feeI the same getting infodumps back - someone must reaIIy Iike you if they're going to put that much time and effort into decIaring their feeIings for you!!) ..Most peopIe aren't Iike me and my partner though IoI!! 

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Telecaster68
5 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

My first romantic decIaration to my partner was Iike 2,500 words

So, short for you then.... 😉

 

Whatever works, I guess.

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@FictoVore. I think your intuitions and conclusions are very accurate on this one. They also match with what else I know about her, and didn't divulge yet on this thread.

 

For instance, from what I know, Rapunzel isn't really looking for a romantic fling, she isn't looking to be seduced. Rather, she's looking very specifically for someone to potentially marry and have children with. So what you said is true I think, if she just wanted a guy to come onto her and try to kiss her, she could have that, but I doubt that's what she's looking for.

 

More importantly, if I just asked her to kiss, she would almost certainly refuse. Even if she desired to kiss me, she would decline, because she would be worried about damaging the relationship between me and C. That's the kind of amazing person she is. So an earnest talk needs to happen regardless, as without that, it'd be impossible to tell whether she's interested in me in isolation of the C. thing.

 

This is a difficult topic, but somehow it strikes me as wrong to assume that Rapunzel couldn't decide for herself that she's interested in a relationship with me, without me making a physical move. Yes, physical attraction matters I suppose, but it's not the only thing that matters. She's a person, she can think for herself, you know? So I figure if I'm someone who'd be a suitable partner for her, she will figure that out on her own, and we will be able to decide together on how to proceed with regards to physical intimacy.

 

Also, as an aside, I personally really wouldn't start with kissing. From what I've gathered, the most important aspect of physical intimacy is literally being able to stand each other's stench. The best way to figure that out is hugging / cuddling, not kissing, and those are also much less risky things to do if you're still in the "figuring each other out" phase.

 

12 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I guess the difference is whether they just emerge because you're both very comfortable with each other, which yes, would be romantic; or if they're done a pre-arranged, almost formal way and you get the impression they might just fire up powerpoint presentation at any moment. In other words, whether it's a natural, spontaneous(ish) interaction, or an earnest infodump. 

You know, I've started some conversations with C. with basically a powerpoint infodump in my mind, and it didn't stop the conversation from evolving naturally, and both of us ending up totally emotional and dissolving in tears. There's nothing I find intrinsically wrong with this approach, although I do know that it doesn't work with some people (particularly those who don't actually care about me).

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Telecaster68
5 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

@FictoVore.You know, I've started some conversations with C. with basically a powerpoint infodump in my mind, and it didn't stop the conversation from evolving naturally, and both of us ending up totally emotional and dissolving in tears. There's nothing I find intrinsically wrong with this approach, although I do know that it doesn't work with some people (particularly those who don't actually care about me).

Well, whatever works. For me the PowerPoint option is monologuing and not listening to their point of view, but clearly others are fine with it.

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Can I level with you? During one of our difficult phases, C. once wrote me a rather long mail in which she expressed her hurt feelings over how things went wrong between us. It was very selfish, it disregarded my feelings and my needs, and the way she was trying to get me back with it bordered on emotional blackmail. It's also probably the most romantic thing she's ever done for me.

 

Good old Mysti would probably condemn this sort of thing as toxic romanticism, but honestly, to me someone expressing how much they need you, especially if it's done in a very selfish way, is touching. That's because I have empathy, and I can relate to what that person is going through. I can relate to how much courage it takes to show yourself from your worst side and make yourself vulnerable.

 

My experience is that empathic people who actually care about you, can at least tolerate such monologues. Does that mean I shouldn't try to listen to the other person's point of view and shouldn't strive for balance? No, of course I should do those things. But sometimes it's necessary to express yourself, and in those cases an attempt to appear as "balanced" and "independent" and "mindful of the other person's needs" (when in reality you're none of those things) can do more harm than good.

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Telecaster68
29 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

It was very selfish, it disregarded my feelings and my needs, and the way she was trying to get me back with it bordered on emotional blackmail. It's also probably the most romantic thing she's ever done for me.

I really have problems with seeing a selfish action as a romantic act. It speaks of a deeply dysfunctional relationship to me. And for once, I might've agreed with Mysti.

 

30 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

someone expressing how much they need you, especially if it's done in a very selfish way, is touching.

I can see that, but there's a thin line between expressing a reasonable human need, and being unreasonably selfish. You seem an almost dysfunctionally unselfish person, Tar - do you think what you're calling selfish, someone else might see as a perfectly normal, reasonable, human need?

 

32 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

I can relate to how much courage it takes to show yourself from your worst side and make yourself vulnerable.

Was she doing that, consciously? Or was she just being selfish and not seeing it as her worst side? I agree, it makes all the difference.

 

33 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

empathic people who actually care about you, can at least tolerate such monologue

I'd say empathic people who care about their partners don't require them to tolerate a monologue, substantially because they're as interested in their partner's position as their own.

 

35 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

But sometimes it's necessary to express yourself, and in those cases an attempt to appear as "balanced" and "independent" and "mindful of the other person's needs" (when in reality you're none of those things) can do more harm than good.

You're talking about being assertive (which is different from controlling or aggressive). Spelling out your own needs isn't selfish; dominating a conversation so the other person doesn't get to spell out theirs, is.

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5 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'd say empathic people who care about their partners don't require them to tolerate a monologue, substantially because they're as interested in their partner's position as their own.

Me and my partner would be, er, 'weird', I guess, in that we get turned on (emotionally and physically) by the act of writing the monologue and reading the other person's, and thinking about how we're going to respond etc. The act itself of compiling the monologue and sending it is so deeply intimate and vulnerable, and always revealing deeply personal aspects of our minds and souls and desires that help make us feel much more closely spiritually even through a medium that to most might seem quite cold and distant. It's a very unique and special way of bonding that I can totally see wouldn't work for most people (because I guess they'd just get bored really fast haha) but for us it's a total turn-on on so many levels. I get really turned on knowing the other person is even more into my mind than they are into my body, and part of being into my mind is being excited by the words that I have to say, no matter how many of them there are :P Yes, totally weird. But we love and actively desire each others monologues, as opposed to just tolerating them for each others sake :wub: Sorry Tar, that was a little off topic, I'm just in a gushy mood tonight haha

 

11 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

You're talking about being assertive (which is different from controlling or aggressive). Spelling out your own needs isn't selfish; dominating a conversation so the other person doesn't get to spell out theirs, is.

@Tarfeather I'd say - be emotionally vulnerable <3

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17 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

... is clearly  not your average sexual woman ...

That does seem worth taking into account, yes.

 

17 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

... serious earnest talks about this stuff ... can easily come across as weird and full on ...

Hm, as far as I know, Dutch people talk an awful lot in these situations. 

 

On balance I am confused and don't have a clue. :ph34r:

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Telecaster68
6 minutes ago, Thea2 said:

That does seem worth taking into account, yes.

 

Hm, as far as I know, Dutch people talk an awful lot in these situations. 

 

On balance I am confused and don't have a clue. :ph34r:

Hmmm. I am, fuck knows, given to talking a lot, so I'm definitely not saying the male should be some pre-verbal Neanderthal. But unless you happen to be Shakespeare or Sappho, there's a point where kissing is more articulate than talking.

 

I guess I was getting the impression that the scenario might unfold like this. Tar and Rapunzel meet and have a fantastic time, talking and laughing, confidences and stories shared, and the time flies. There have been some ambiguous 'accidental' fleeting touches of arms, or the sides of their bodies, each one deniable, but somehow they keep happening, instigated by both of them. And each time a little longer, and a little closer. Then at some point, there's a moment that's undeniably romantic, because they've tacitly agreed that it'll happen - looking up at the stars, or out to sea, or moving close in to each other showing the other something in a book or on a phone. It's an excuse, and they're nearly sure the other one knows it. Nearly. The conversation goes quiet, eye contact is made. The world seems still and quiet.

 

And then Tar pulls out a wad of index cards with talking points on them, and starts to analyse the complexities of his situation for twenty minutes.

 

Really, at this point, they both want to kiss - just once, softly, on the lips, and see what happens next. Twenty minutes of tightly argued, balanced, explanation about the pros and cons of a relationship will make her assume he's avoiding kissing her because he doesn't want to.

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11 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

... The conversation goes quiet, eye contact is made. The world seems still and quiet.

 

And then Tar pulls out a wad of index cards with talking points on them, and starts to analyse the complexities of his situation for twenty minutes ...

Ha, ha, you have me totally convinced now …... that you are a very good writer. :lol: I really don't know re. the advice, people are all different.

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Telecaster68
5 minutes ago, Thea2 said:

Ha, ha, you have me totally convinced now …... that you are a very good writer. :lol: I really don't know re. the advice, people are all different.

Thankyou.

 

People are different. Reading between the lines though, Tar and Rapunzel both seem shy and more inclined to analyse everything to death instead of making a move, so I was trying to compensate for that tendency.

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On 4/21/2018 at 9:33 AM, Tarfeather said:

She has a huge house plant hanging on to the door between her bedroom and the living room where I slept, so she couldn't close the door. When we went to bed, she ended up changing her clothes in plain line of sight of me (I looked away). That's like "really comfortable and simple" and uncomplicated and everything.

Or else she wanted to test your reaction. :D

 

On 4/21/2018 at 12:53 PM, Thea2 said:

:huh: who is 'they' and what 'can' they do?

Read the thread title once more... :cake:

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Telecaster68
8 minutes ago, roland.o said:

Or else she wanted to test your reaction.

How did I miss that one?

 

FFS Tar. She. Took. Her. Clothes. Off. Alone. In. An. Apartment. Where. You. Could. See Her. 

 

She's hurling herself at you.

 

I used to be pretty much the same. When I was young and diffident, a really attractive colleague (about whom there were rumours of her being no better than she ought to be, as my grandmother used to say) from the small office where I lived offered to give me a lift somewhere after work, and then said she needed to pop home to change. She insisted I come inside, then that I help her out of her dress, asking whether I had a girlfriend etc (I didn't). I wrote it off, in a Tar-like manner because, you know, that stuff just didn't happen to me...

 

In retrospect, she was so obviously wanting me to make a move. This is one of many, many similar stories of me missing what was right in front of me.

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1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

She's hurling herself at you.

🤔

 

My first thought was, "There goes Telecaster again with his silly leaps to conclusion that never have proven remotely true so far".. Then I tried to brush this hypothesis aside with a swift counter proof.. And couldn't find one.

 

>> wants me to stay at her place the first time we meet

> it's just so we can watch a movie together

>> says she enjoyed the time with me a lot

> obviously in a platonic way

>> tells me that she really likes my present and hugs me

> just doesn't want me to feel like a complete failure

>> inches closer to me while watching a movie

> just wants a better view of the screen

>> sends me a photo of herself after me telling her how much I enjoy looking at her

> OK now I'm finally out of excuses

 

Seriously, I feel like the personification of the socially awkward penguin right now. :D

 

Okay, so let's say given all current information, this is at least a plausible hypothesis..

 

But why?

 

... Oh.

 

Hm. Need to think on that.

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Autumn Season
5 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

How did I miss that one?

 

FFS Tar. She. Took. Her. Clothes. Off. Alone. In. An. Apartment. Where. You. Could. See Her. 

 

She's hurling herself at you.

I also thought so at first. After Tar's description I was like IT'S A SIGN, A HUGE NEON SIGN, OMG OMG OMG OMG.

But then I remembered that she doesn't have any sexual experience. What are the chances then that she wants a one-night stand/ start a relationship by jumping right into bed together? Rather low.

So in the end I decided that this girl could just be very... unique and brave. (I'd never ever trust a guy, who I don't know extremely well, this much.)

BUT even if she didn't want to have sex that night, being so open and showing her body would still mean that she likes him, imo.

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Telecaster68

You can find alternative explanations for each individual thing, but when you put them all together, it would require a vast number of coincidences to avoid the conclusion she fancies him.

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lilgroundhog

And then you have people like me where sex/romance just don't cross our brain.  Maybe it's just my aro aceness, but I'm sure people think I like so and so, even though it's a squish and I really really want to be their friend and someone important to them but don't want an exclusive relationship or anything that's non-platonic.  I wouldn't be surprised if I confused the heck out of a few of my male friends.

 

My recommendation would be if you want something non-platonic, start a conversation about it before you get to the point of do I kiss her or not.

 

Edit: realized I stumbled in here by accident thinking I was elsewhere on the site.

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Am I the only one here finding "starting a conversation for a peck on the lips", awkward?

 

Tar,

From what you wrote it's clear to me that she doesn't only likes you but also trust you already. (you slept at her place and she sent you a picture of her, your eyes only)

She also didn't ran away when you told her that you enjoy watching her, she responded by sending you a picture.

 

And for lights sake, it's only a kiss between two adults. If you go slowly enough, take a break during the approach and look in her eyes for a yes, she'll have plenty of time to say "nay, sorry".

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Well if you're really considering whether you should go in for a kiss, the best way is to: make eye contact with her, look at her lips for a bit and then look away (or bite your lip as you look away - the point is to appear shy which may not have to be an act considering you're shy naturally.. from what I've gathered). Then after doing that, look at her reaction. Basically, it's a subtle way of saying you considered kissing them but you're shy about it and then depending on her reaction to that, you'll have your answer as to whether she is ready/likes you or doesn't like you/not ready. If they look away then it's the latter and if they look a little shy themself or flustered, that's a good sign ahah 

Like for eg with me, I like shy guys which means I don't like it when they move fast. Now one day I was slow dancing with a guy who I thought was shy and then he began staring right into my eyes and I knew from that look he wanted to kiss me, so then I looked away to let him know I wasn't interested. Then after awhile I faced the front again and he gave 'the look' again (nothing wrong with what he did, I assume he was just double checking to see if I really wasn't interested or whether I was simply looking away) and so again I looked away. He defs got the point after that. So yeah, just do something neutral, but that can also come across as you wanting to kiss them, and then read their reaction. Also, not being ready does not equal disinterested, however, you may destroy any potential interest from developing if you rush things. Like I'm not going to lie, I thought he was the shy type which is why he caught my interest in the first place but then from that night, from his behaviour (not the kiss attempt, something else) he seemed like every other guy and I immediately lost interest. So yeah, thought I'd give you a heads up, but I don't think a kiss attempt like his^ will put them off bc he didn't actually go in for one, if anything, it was almost as if he was asking for permission to go in for a kiss, which is pretty attractive 

Anyway in your case, you can either give them 'the look' like the guy in my story did, but since you already said you like staring at her this might not be the best approach for you since she may not read into it, so instead: (1) look into her eyes for a bit and then (2) lower your gaze towards her lips
- she'll notice your eyes drop,
- the thought of you wanting to kiss her may cross her mind at this point so she'll watch your behaviour right after you stared at her lips,
- depending on your behaviour she'll be able to confirm that you want(ed) to kiss her,
- then from there, you gauge her reaction and voila... your answer lies in her reaction!

But remember, your reaction after staring at her lips is key, you need to appear shy or something like that. Maybe even repeat those steps a second time. If you simply look into her eyes and then lower your gaze with nothing following that, she might not read into it and therefore not react. Also, you'll need to have her maintain eye contact with you for this to work. If she's the type to look around as she talks, this may be harder. Anywho none of this may be helpful, but thought I'd share just in case 

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Man.. All of these non-verbal cues are way too much for me. I would not have understood any of them, and when I was young and naive I may have done some of the things Rapunzel has done with Tar that people are interpreting as "it means she's throwing herself at you" to people that I definitely was not throwing myself at....  but I guess I'm the opposite of an average girl.

 

The more I read this thread the more relieved I feel that I am now in a relationship with someone so I don't have to worry about giving out the wrong vibes or not reading the vibes people are giving me and then getting into a situation that I thought was out of nowhere but everyone else might have thought I was asking for.

 

Blargh.

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On 4/22/2018 at 3:56 AM, Tarfeather said:

For instance, from what I know, Rapunzel isn't really looking for a romantic fling, she isn't looking to be seduced. Rather, she's looking very specifically for someone to potentially marry and have children with.

1)  Assuming you ultimately prove compatible, do you see yourself as that someone?  Since you know this about her, if you’re not she will likely be very displeased down the road if you enter into something with her anyway.

 

2)  I get the “not looking for a romantic fling part,” and that could be the whole explanation, but “not wanting to be seduced” and just wanting a man to marry and have children with could be the intro to James’ situation...

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8 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

1)  Assuming you ultimately prove compatible, do you see yourself as that someone?  Since you know this about her, if you’re not she will likely be very displeased down the road if you enter into something with her anyway.

 

2)  I get the “not looking for a romantic fling part,” and that could be the whole explanation, but “not wanting to be seduced” and just wanting a man to marry and have children with could be the intro to James’ situation...

This.

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Way too much analysis here.

Actually having a power-point presentation type of talk so early in the game would totally turn me off.  Ugh.

She is giving you all the green lights here, dude, in my book.  Pictures, flirtation and the like.  I would bet a ton of money that she is just waiting for you to make your move.  A kiss is hardly a sexual assault.  And if it is in her book, then run!!

Just do it.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, NapoliGirl said:

Way too much analysis here.

Actually having a power-point presentation type of talk so early in the game would totally turn me off.  Ugh.

She is giving you all the green lights here, dude, in my book.  Pictures, flirtation and the like.  I would bet a ton of money that she is just waiting for you to make your move.  A kiss is hardly a sexual assault.  And if it is in her book, then run!!

Just do it.

😂😅😂. Yes, I totally agree!  Although, I’ve read this thread with great amusement as a woman.  In a way, it’s refreshing and insightful.  Tele did make me laugh out loud actually with an earlier post.  Lack of experience sexually does not equal clueless about sex/perceived seduction. I was fully informed in my early teens (avid reader of smut) yet still a virgin in my late teens.  I could see trying some of those moves out myself back in the day.  Now, I simply make the move which is so much easier.  The beauty of age.  

 

She’s trying Tar....help her out!

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Take the leap of faith.  What have you got to lose, really?

If she isn't into you that way, then you have a bit of a bruised ego.

If she is into you that way, then it is the start of something potentially great.

If you don't take the leap, you will never know.

It is really in the initial stages, and you both seem to be dancing around the possibilities.  (From my heterosexual female point of view)  I truly do see her as giving you the go-ahead.  

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