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Mary Lambert

I think, my ACE husband has ruined sex for me?

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vega57
5 minutes ago, uhtred said:

 They have regular sex with the sexual and pretend to enjoy it.  The sexual may be happy, thinking that they have a great relationship.  The asexual is miserable because they feel constantly forced to do things they don't like. 

And...WHY do you think that is?  Both the sexuals and the asexuals have been misled.  *We* are taught that "everyone" wants and LOVES sex.  Never occurred to the 'powers that be' that although people may have sex, it doesn't mean they necessarily want it or love it.  What happens is that some people (we don't know how many) have sex even though they may not like it.  And of course, how many articles are there out there that tell people that they "should" have sex, even if they don't want to?  

 

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Its very  difficult to leave these relationships, because it feels "wrong" to leave someone "just because of sex".    The more you love someone, the more difficult it is to leave because you don't want to hurt them - even though you probably already are.

Yeah.  :( 

 

 

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Mary Lambert
5 hours ago, ripley said:

Neither of them should be sacrificing their happiness for the other, and if that is happening then you have to stop and think ‘okay, what will make me happy that’s realistic for both of us’. If that eventually comes to parting ways so be it, but it sounds to me like there’s still time and room for adjusting and understanding the husbands asexuality a little bit more before going to that extreme.

 

Yes, you are right. I am very happy in my relationship so leaving is not an option. He is wonderful. I just want an open relationship someday. I don't see any other option. 

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Telecaster68
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What happens is that some people (we don't know how many) have sex even though they may not like it.

I just did a quick and dirty search of academic literature. You're right, there doesn't seem to be any study focussing on habitually agreeing to sex you don't want. All the research is along the lines of 'have you ever said yes when you'd have preferred not to?' ie, has it happened even once. And...

 

Quote

More women (97.5%) than men (93.5%) had experienced unwanted sexual activity; more men (62.7%) than women (46.3%) had experienced unwanted intercourse.

(Journal of Sex Research, Volume 24, 1988, Men's self‐reports of unwanted sexual activity, Charlene L. Muehlenhard  & Stephen W. Cook)

 

Clearly, at that level, we're talking about people who do in general want sex, but at some point, had sex when they'd preferred not to. That paper quotes some other surveys that show a similar picture. They tended to go into the reasons, which tended to boil down to keeping the peace with their partner, if it was in a relationship.

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uhtred
55 minutes ago, vega57 said:

And...WHY do you think that is?  Both the sexuals and the asexuals have been misled.  *We* are taught that "everyone" wants and LOVES sex.  Never occurred to the 'powers that be' that although people may have sex, it doesn't mean they necessarily want it or love it.  What happens is that some people (we don't know how many) have sex even though they may not like it.  And of course, how many articles are there out there that tell people that they "should" have sex, even if they don't want to?  

 

Yeah.  :( 

 

 

There are articles that tell people that they "should" have sex with their partners even if they don't feel like it.  There are also articles telling people to "never have sex that you don't want".   People are taught that "everyone loves sex", but they are also taught that sex is oppressive to women, or that desiring too much sex makes you an "old goat", or "[derogatory term for women that I won't use here]".  All sides of this are full.  Interestingly though, there are not a lot of articles that address the idea that people's basic level of sexual interest may vary a lot from individual to individual. 

 

 

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Mary Lambert
1 hour ago, vega57 said:

Are you still in love with your husband?

Are you in love with your friend?

Yes, I do love him and I love our life together. I waited a long time to find someone so easy to be with, I am also attracted sexually to my friend. But he could never be what my husband is. It's like they are both deficient and would be great to have both to make up for the deficiency. I am sure I am deficient too. :) 

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ryn2
2 hours ago, Mary Lambert said:

I feel as if the ACE gets what they want in the relationship but the Allo needs a boyfriend/girlfriend.

Yes and no (that the ace gets what they want; obviously you feel whatever you feel).  Speaking for myself, at least, the ace may want a relationship with a happy partner where the “other shoe” of “you know, I thought I could do it but I actually can’t anymore” isn’t always up there waiting to drop.  Without that not having sex is cold comfort.

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Telecaster68
46 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Yes and no (that the ace gets what they want; obviously you feel whatever you feel).  Speaking for myself, at least, the ace may want a relationship with a happy partner where the “other shoe” of “you know, I thought I could do it but I actually can’t anymore” isn’t always up there waiting to drop.  Without that not having sex is cold comfort.

I appreciate that, but the sexual partner has parallel emotional situation, plus no sex, whether that would be cold comfort or not.

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Mary Lambert
22 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Yes and no (that the ace gets what they want; obviously you feel whatever you feel).  Speaking for myself, at least, the ace may want a relationship with a happy partner where the “other shoe” of “you know, I thought I could do it but I actually can’t anymore” isn’t always up there waiting to drop.  Without that not having sex is cold comfort.

Yes, the kids always say, "Dad is so unhappy". I remember him crying to me once saying he did not know how to make me happy. I hurt for him so much that day. But I remember it so vividly. I was so beside myself. (like why can't he see how much he is hurting me). I just dropped it. That was long ago.  So great incite from you, thank you. This site has been amazing. My husband was never able to express himself or talk about this. I think he feels that the less he says and the more he pretends the better. 

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NapoliGirl
5 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

You're eliding two separate things, and yes, you are avoiding my substantive point. Sex itself isn't about 'getting their way', but control of what happens in a relationship is about who gets their way. In a good relationship, both get their way because they both want the same thing, or near enough, most of the time.

 

It takes two people to want sex for it to happen (short of rape, clearly). Both have to want it. The one who doesn't want it, doesn't have it, regardless of the one who does. This doesn't work the other way round: the one who wants it only gets if the other one wants it. So the one who doesn't want it gets their way.


Person A doesn't want it. Person B doesn't want it = No sex.

Person A does want it. Person B doesn't want it = No sex.

Person A doesn't want it. Person B does want it = No sex.

Person A does want it. Person B does want it = Sex.

Because getting their way sexually or not would involve rape, the one who doesn't want sex gets their way. Always. In a healthy relationship between sexuals, each partner is probably going to be fairly equally on the 'yes' or 'no' side, which means in practice, control over when sex  happens is split equally, and feels fair. When one of them never wants something that the other frequently does, and the 'never' person always gets their way, there's an imbalance of control.

 

But anyway, my original point was this. I'll use short, unambiguous numbered points.

  1. The sexual feels conflicted about sex.
  2. The asexual feels conflicted about sex. 
  3. The sexual could leave the relationship to avoid this conflict.
  4. The asexual could leave the relationship to avoid this conflict.
  5. The sexual would prefer their relationship, generally speaking, involves sex. 
  6. The asexual would prefer their relationship, generally speaking, doesn't involve sex.
  7. The asexual can have a relationship without sex by saying 'no'.
  8. The sexual can't have a relationship with sex by saying 'yes'.

Which means:

  1. Both sides are conflicted about sex in the relationship
  2. Both sides could leave, to avoid this conflict

But if they choose not to:

  1. The asexual can say 'no' and not have sex, so they get what they want specifically on that point
  2. The sexual can't say 'yes' and have sex, so they can't get what they want specifically on that point

That's what I mean by an imbalance.

 

Oh boy, this is incredibly perfect for my math-and-logic wired left brain. Thank you!  Absolutely love it!!  

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ryn2
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I appreciate that, but the sexual partner has parallel emotional situation, plus no sex, whether that would be cold comfort or not.

Not disagreeing; just saying that for me the fact my partner and I are not having sex in no way compensates for the other things I’m coping with/losing.  I’m not made happy, or even happier - nor “getting what I want” - by the fact we are not having sex despite being the ace partner.

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Telecaster68

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative but it would be worse if you were having sex as well...

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Homer
6 hours ago, vega57 said:

*We* are taught that "everyone" wants and LOVES sex.

*scratches head*

 

Nope. Never happened here. Never happened in my immediate circle.

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vega57
5 hours ago, uhtred said:

There are articles that tell people that they "should" have sex with their partners even if they don't feel like it.  There are also articles telling people to "never have sex that you don't want".   People are taught that "everyone loves sex", but they are also taught that sex is oppressive to women, or that desiring too much sex makes you an "old goat", or "[derogatory term for women that I won't use here]".  All sides of this are full. 

While I agree that there are writings to support all sides, the ratio of the writings are heavily slanted toward having sex, even if you don't want to.  For example, you're not going to find nearly as many articles about how sex is oppressive to women than you'll find about how the single "liberated" woman should be out there having lots and lots of sex regardless of what some people may think of her.  You'll be more likely to find articles written about how it's o.k. to say 'no' to sex geared toward teenagers and 'single' women.  How many articles of those articles are geared toward men?  Not nearly as many.  

 

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Interestingly though, there are not a lot of articles that address the idea that people's basic level of sexual interest may vary a lot from individual to individual. 

Yes, I agree.  There also aren't a lot of articles that address the idea that people's basic level of sexual interest may vary in the SAME individual and that it's perfectly normal.  Even if there is an article or two that addresses this, most of those are geared toward trying to find ways to increase one's desire for sex, including to have sex even if you don't want to.   

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ryn2
46 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative but it would be worse if you were having sex as well...

I can’t speak to that because I’ve never been in that particular situation.  If we were having sex because we’d found something that works for my partner and consequently he was once again committed to our relationship rather than planning on leaving, that would be better than not having sex.

 

I’m not trying to be argumentative either.  I’m just having trouble putting myself in the scenario of “everything sucks and is falling apart + sex” to get a sense for whether or not that be markedly different.

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ripley
7 hours ago, Mary Lambert said:

I understand, but hope that either he get someone he loves (I feel he is waiting for me) or he and my husband both decide it is ok. The kids will be gone and hopefully it will be our little secret.

Oh no, secrets are never a good thing, especially not when it comes to hiding from members of your immediate family. Even if you never intend for the children to find out there’s always the chance they will, and then there’s the chance for misunderstanding and a sense of betrayal and resentment on behalf of the other parent. If you ever go down the route of having a guy on the side, that’s something you would absolutely have to bear in mind and think about making sure the children understood - at least to a degree - why. You’ve mentioned above that the children are already noticing and asking you why their Dad is upset sometimes, secrecy would only make it worse.

 

You say you love your husband. You’ve mentioned in past threads that had you known he was ace, you may not have married him. Think about what it was that drew you to him, the things that had you saying yes in the first place. There had to be something or a number of somethings, and if it wasn’t the sex then that obviously shows there’s a lot more at the foundation of what your relationship is built upon. Also think on if you really think another person in the picture would help, considering both your feelings and that of your husbands. I can imagine it would likely be very hard and upsetting for him, what with the emotional and romantic attachments that can come with sex. He might be concerned you’ll eventually leave him for the friend because the friend can provide something that’s important to you that he’s comfortable with giving while your husband isn’t. Although you yourself may know that wouldn’t happen, it doesn’t erase the fear in his own mind.

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vega57
13 minutes ago, Homer said:

*scratches head*

 

Nope. Never happened here. Never happened in my immediate circle.

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a8350375/what-guys-hate-most-about-every-sex-position/

 

The first line of the above article reads:  "To be perfectly clear: virtually everyone loves sex."

 

http://www.gq.com.au/gq+girls/dating/bring+back+your+sex+drive+with+the+science+behind+arousal+,45137

 

The first like of this ^ article reads:  Everyone loves sex, but as a sex educator, author and researcher Dr Emily Nagoski also really loves learning about sex. 

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Homer

I don't know how those are related to my quote, but... okay.

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Telecaster68

Did you miss my response about the control imbalance vega? It often seems to happen when I do a particularly forensic rebuttal of what you're saying with no wiggle room or opportunities for distracting chaff I've noticed...

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ripley
9 hours ago, AussieIsAce said:

i think you should jump. 

go and enjoy your life you shouldn't stay in a relationship this isnt fulfilling to you. 

 

you seem suffocated. 

 

yes its sad but you are going to be alright. 

 

It isn’t just her own happiness though. It’s a whole family.

 

She loves her husband and wants him to be happy, but Mary wants to be happy too. And then there’s the children they have, if they’re already picking up on their father being upset sometimes they’ll certainly wonder why their parents decide to separate. Even the most understanding of children in that scenario can feel confused and anxious over the change in their family dynamic. And even if they did separate, they’d likely still see each other out of either friendship or just because the children would still want a life with both their parents. 

 

Uprooting a whole family isn’t ideal, especially when you’re not even really sure if that’s a solution. Yes it might work out in the long run, but on the chance it doesn’t that’s - in this case - four peoples lives that have changed in one way or another. Which is why I say don’t jump too soon, because while I’m all for living for your own happiness, sometimes you do need to think ‘but is this thing that might make me happy really going to guarantee my happiness, or will it just make all involved miserable?’

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vega57
6 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

(Journal of Sex Research, Volume 24, 1988, Men's self‐reports of unwanted sexual activity, Charlene L. Muehlenhard  & Stephen W. Cook)

 

Clearly, at that level, we're talking about people who do in general want sex, but at some point, had sex when they'd preferred not to. That paper quotes some other surveys that show a similar picture. They tended to go into the reasons, which tended to boil down to keeping the peace with their partner, if it was in a relationship.

Do you have a link to the study?  All I can find online is the abstract.  

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vega57
24 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Did you miss my response about the control imbalance vega? It often seems to happen when I do a particularly forensic rebuttal of what you're saying with no wiggle room or opportunities for distracting chaff I've noticed...

Must have missed it.  Sorry, but my computer seems to have issues with the AVEN site from time to time.  I don't always get notifications when someone posts.  The post I'm quoting above says that you wrote it 24 minutes ago, but I didn't receive any notification that you posted.  I have to constantly re-load the page...

 

Please don't take it personally.  It happens with other's posts, too.  

 

I'll look at your response now....

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James121
7 hours ago, Mary Lambert said:

Yes, you are right. I am very happy in my relationship so leaving is not an option. He is wonderful. I just want an open relationship someday. I don't see any other option. 

Here is the deal as I see it Mary. Your husband doesn’t want to have sex. I assume he doesn’t want to lose you either. By definition he is trying to eat his cake and still have it. 

You have lost sexual interest in him because he hasn’t shown a sexual desire for you but you also don’t want to leave.

Open the marriage up! Right away. If he doesn’t consent to this you will either have to consider leaving him or doing so without his consent. It may well be a very difficult thing for you to do (being deceitful and having an affair) but what options are you being given. 

You have a right to happiness too and assuming your profile picture is actually you, you will have no issues finding a partner to enjoy sex with.

 

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James121
I’ve made some very mild adjustments to the formula that was previously posted. It’s probably not applicable to anyone who is asexual but is to those living relationships where there is a libido mismatch.

1) Person A doesn't want it.
Person B doesn't want it = No sex. Happy days

2) Person A does want it. Person B doesn't want it = No sex. But person B could have had sex and enjoyed having sex if they had actually tried having sex.

3) Person A doesn't want it. Person B does want it = No sex. But person A could have had sex and enjoyed having sex if they had actually tried having sex.

4) Person A does want it. Person B does want it = Sex. Happy days

 

Responsive desire is what makes example 2 and 3 achievable. Response desire being a desire for sex that only kicks in when the sex (or at least the foreplay) has begun. So how do you overcome that someone who could have had sex and could have enjoyed it but wouldn’t/didn’t because ‘that itch’ to have sex wasn’t present beforehand. Well you can’t overcome it so in example 2 and 3 the sentence typically stops at ‘no sex’. Partly this is down to misunderstanding your own body and partly this is down to something beginning with S and ending in elfish.

 

 

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vega57
2 hours ago, James121 said:

Here is the deal as I see it Mary. Your husband doesn’t want to have sex. I assume he doesn’t want to lose you either. By definition he is trying to eat his cake and still have it. 

 

Ohfercryinoutloud.

 

Quote

Open the marriage up! Right away.

Annnnnd...this would ALSO be considered having her cake and eating it too.....

 

Quote

If he doesn’t consent to this you will either have to consider leaving him or doing so without his consent. It may well be a very difficult thing for you to do (being deceitful and having an affair) but what options are you being given. 

No one is "giving" her options.  The options have always existed.  Either you STAY and endure...have an affair...or...leave.  What's the 'right' thing to do?  

 

Quote

You have a right to happiness too and assuming your profile picture is actually you, you will have no issues finding a partner to enjoy sex with.

No one has the "right" to happiness.  We all have the right to pursue happiness, but not at another person's expense.  

 

Look James, it's FINE to want to be happy.  What's not fine is expecting someone else to 'make' you happy. Once you drink THAT Kool-Aid, you're doomed.  

 

If you expect to find happiness outside of yourself, you're never going to be happy.  Oh, you might find it for a SHORT time...until it's time to 'make' you 'happy' again.   Just look at how you view sex.  If you have sex TODAY, you're "happy".  But if you want sex again on Friday and you don't get it, you'll be UNHAPPY.  Why?  Because you're depending on forces outside of yourself to 'make you happy!  You're depending on another person to 'make' you happy.  

 

If you think that having sex is the ONLY thing that's going to make you happy.....

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AussieIsAce
3 hours ago, ripley said:

It isn’t just her own happiness though. It’s a whole family.

look im not gonna get into why i did give a rats ass if theres a family to deal with all imma say is, Why are you going to be with a man you arent fucking. You cant change him so therefor you will forever not be fucking. you're a sexual woman you like to fuck. so leave him. 

 

He is a man he will survive. 65% of marriages end in divorce your kids will be fine. 

 

you cant just let your happiness be on the back burner. 

 

if you love him youll walk away and not stay in a relationship this isnt helping you grow as a person.

 

you dont want to stay with him for your kids because in the long run youll just hate your kids. 

 

you need to live for yourself. be happy for you can raise your family happily. he was be fine. you can be friends with him. 

 

but go out there and get some sex girl. 

 

 

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Bronztrooper
3 minutes ago, AussieIsAce said:

look im not gonna get into why i did give a rats ass if theres a family to deal with all imma say is, Why are you going to be with a man you arent fucking. You cant change him so therefor you will forever not be fucking. you're a sexual woman you like to fuck. so leave him. 

 

He is a man he will survive. 65% of marriages end in divorce your kids will be fine. 

 

you cant just let your happiness be on the back burner. 

 

if you love him youll walk away and not stay in a relationship this isnt helping you grow as a person.

 

you dont want to stay with him for your kids because in the long run youll just hate your kids. 

 

you need to live for yourself. be happy for you can raise your family happily. he was be fine. you can be friends with him. 

 

but go out there and get some sex girl. 

 

 

This would all be well and good had people not assumed that being divorced means that you have to stop supporting your children together.  To the kids, there's a good chance that all they'll take away from it is that their family is splitting apart.

 

My parents never got married and have not been in an actual relationship with each other for the past 14-15 years (basically almost as long as I can remember), yet they both raised me and my sister.  It's a huge reason why I don't understand the BS with child custody because when a couple gets divorced they're letting their problems with each other affect the futures of their children.  Why should divorce automatically mean that the parents can't both take part in taking care of their kids?

 

Not that the OP hasn't already thought of this, though.  This isn't a decision that only affects 1 person and your 'advice' (I hesitate to call it that) comes across as insensitive to the situation as a whole.  This has multiple aspects to it and it's not just the OP's happiness that will be affected.  And based on her comments, she's fully aware of this.

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vega57
25 minutes ago, AussieIsAce said:

 

you need to live for yourself.

 

Talk about being selfish....

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AussieIsAce
58 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Talk about being selfish....

so then you are happy. 

 

i live for me so i can be happy for my family. 

 

its not selfish to put your happiness ahead so then you can be happy for everyone you love. its called balance.

 

i joined the army not because my mother wanted me to! i joined so id be happy. she wasnt on board but now that she sees im happy we are both happy. its a balance.  

 

live for yourself so you can be happy for everyone you care about. 

 

you think a mother is going to be a good parent if she isnt happy with her life...

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Telecaster68

Vega, if no one ever spoke to you again, and blanked you for the rest of your life, would you be happy?

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Sally
17 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

It takes two people to want sex for it to happen (short of rape, clearly).

Oh come on, Tele, you've been on AVEN too long to make that statement.  Sex happens often -- in mixed and unmixed relationships -- when only one person wants it.  Generally because the person who doesn't want it (either ever, or just at that particulatr time) wants to please their partner.  

 

You may not want that particular kind of sex, but you really can't intelligently claim that it isn't sex.  

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