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Mary Lambert

I think, my ACE husband has ruined sex for me?

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ryn2
33 minutes ago, James121 said:

Everyone deserves effort, period (especially when you decide to trot up that aisle in front of your friends and family and slip rings on each other’s fingers)

When I got married I fully intended (and still do, really), to make an effort for my life partner.

 

I didn’t see sex as having no place in a relationship (although if I’d found a partner who did see it that way life might be a lot easier; I just didn’t know people like that existed way back then).  What I also didn’t see, though, is that it might be *more* important in a relationship than being compatible in other ways.  So, to me, an issue with sex is on par with many other relationship issues - isolated, anywhere from annoying to really upsetting, not on its own a dealbreaker.

 

It wasn’t until I came on here that I learned at least some sexuals see sex as more key/integral to a relationship than many/most other things.

 

Me:  we’re having an issue around sex but that’s okay because I’m really happy with the rest of my relationship

 

Some sexuals:  because we’re having an issue around sex I can’t be happy in my relationship

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vega57
13 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Why would he feel the need to make it sound better if he didn't expect the truth to be dismissed?

He had been a habitual liar since he was a kid.  Even his mother said that he constantly lied, but it wasn't because he expected the truth to be dismissed.  It was because...

 

He often found the truth to be boring.  He lied (again, by his own admission) in order to get attention.  If he was 'discovered' by his parents, he said that BAD attention is better than NO attention.  

 

The problem is, that he CONSTANTLY wanted to be the center of attention, whether he actually 'deserved' that spot or not.    

 

Quote

I'm not sure you realise how dismissively you can come across quite often.

His lying was not about *me*.  

 

If you met me in real life, you'd probably see me as my late husband saw me:  as a DOORMAT.  

 

That is, until I started standing up for myself...which didn't take that long for me to do.  

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James121
4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Me:  we’re having an issue around sex but that’s okay because I’m really happy with the rest of my relationship

Snap! I sure don’t stick around for all that hot sex! 😂 Sometimes I just have to laugh at my situation but I have to say that sometimes it can feel like such a big deal!

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ryn2
13 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Why would he feel the need to make it sound better if he didn't expect the truth to be dismissed?

I can’t speak for him - maybe he was just an a**hole - but I learned as a child that nothing I said would ever be good enough.  I got in the very early habit of lying about the stupidest things, partly to increase the weight of my argument but more because when my parents shot it down they were attacking my lie, not me.

 

It was ridiculously hard to unlearn.  50 years later I still occasionally catch myself saying three people backed me when two did, or it took me 20 minutes to do something that took 15.

 

Not excusing the dude at all.  I just laughed (sadly) about “the S-factor” because of the above.

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

I can’t speak for him - maybe he was just an a**hole - but I learned as a child that nothing I said would ever be good enough.  I got in the very early habit of lying about the stupidest things, partly to increase the weight of my argument but more because when my parents shot it down they were attacking my lie, not me.

 

It was ridiculously hard to unlearn.  50 years later I still occasionally catch myself saying three people backed me when two did, or it took me 20 minutes to do something that took 15.

 

Not excusing the dude at all.  I just laughed (sadly) about “the S-factor” because of the above.

Similar thing here, but it does sound like @vega57's situation is different.

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ryn2
6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Similar thing here, but it does sound like @vega57's situation is different.

Agreed, especially after reading the post she made while I was typing with my slow old thumbs.

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vega57
4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I can’t speak for him - maybe he was just an a**hole - but I learned as a child that nothing I said would ever be good enough.  

He wasn't  diagnosed as a narcissist, but 2 of our marital therapists, and the last individual therapist I had, told me that they couldn't properly diagnose him, but that he had all of the symptoms of being a narcissist.  

 

Sam Vakin wrote a book called  Malignant Self Love: Narcissism Revisited.  At my last therapist's urging, I read it from cover to cover.  All you had to do is replace the words "he" or "she" with "S----" and it was my late husband to a Tee...even down to his fascination with his bodily functions (farting, burping, pooping, peeing, ejaculating, spitting, blowing his nose, etc.)

 

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Bronztrooper

What in the actual fuck has happened to this thread????????

 

giphy.gif

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Username_2017
2 hours ago, James121 said:

It was a serious answer. Once a month is very infrequent, 10 times per day is ridiculous. Once a week or thereabouts  appears achievable for both to be happy. Does it not?

I think you'd be surprised how many couples have sex only once a month.

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James121
Just now, Username_2017 said:

I think you'd be surprised how many couples have sex only once a month.

Oh don’t I know it! However, of those couples who have sex once per month, how many involve one person who is comfortable with once per month and the other being uncomfortable with once per month?

99%

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Username_2017

I'm confused? Do you think that 99% of the sexual population would all be unhappy with sex once a month?

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uhtred
8 hours ago, vega57 said:

You make it sound like, if you DID leave, she'd be miserable forever and ever.  

 

She'd probably be upset for a while, but eventually, she probably WOULD become happy again.  It's not a permanent state of being.  

Maybe, but  maybe not.  She really does love me (need me?), and we've been together for >30 years.   If I had understood better I probably should have ended things long ago, but now? 

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uhtred
8 hours ago, Evren said:

Yeah see in situations like that, I have trouble understanding what options you have left. You divorce she's upset, you stay and your miserable. You cheat and she's upset. I think a lot of asexual people don't understand exactly how important sex is to sexual people. I don't personally understand it either, but I listened to the sexual people on here, and they told me about how important it is to them. And I can respect that. It leaves me in a bit of a crappy situation, because I'm fairly sure that I should never date a sexual person. However, I'm alright being single, I don't really understand relationships either so I wouldn't want to make someone else miserable because of me. 

I think its best for asexuals to be in relationships with other asexuals, otherwise it is likely misery for both.  Mixed might work, but only if both are actually comfortable with an open relationship.  Its hard - the only saving grace is that with online dating it should be possible to find someone compatible. 

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uhtred
6 hours ago, vega57 said:

And what if what she wanted from you that would "make her happy" was unreasonable?  Would you still do it?  

And there is the big question. What is "unreasonable".  Is sex twice a week "unreasonable"? Is Celibacy "unreasonable"?  Sometimes there is just a basic disagreement as to what was understood in the marriage vows. 

 

 

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uhtred
6 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

If marriage is this ultimately religious undertaking as you keep saying it is, wouldn't it be specifically implied then that cheating within a marriage is actually a sin against the marriage and against God?  I don't remember the Bible ever implying you can go and screw other people if you don't get sex from your spouse. 

 

The cheater is still 'at fault' for cheating because they chose to do it and they'll know it's wrong and make excuses for it. They know if their partner finds out they'll probably leave them (and yes, that's happened to quite a few sexual partners on AVEN now) and so they actively hide it to avoid their partner flipping out. So yeah, they know it's wrong and that it will cause immense harm and damage to their relationship no matter what excuses they make for it. 

 

I'm not as hard on cheaters as some would think from my comments here, I actually don't give a fuck if you cheat it's none of my business. But you (general you here) know as well as I do that someone who cheats is deeply hurting their partner and making excuses for it doesn't make it any less wrong to actively choose to hurt them when they themselves are just as stuck as you are. They can't MAKE themselves want to fuck you, so they have the choice to force themselves to suffer through sex with you (which you couldnt enjoy anyway knowing they don't want it) or suffer the pain of having you cheat on them? Because yes it hurts an ace just as much as it hurts anyone else. It's a deeply shitty position for them to be in as well.

 

 

 

Just for clarity since you were responding to my post, neither I or my wife are religious.  I agree that religion adds a whole new layer to the question .

 

The situation sucks for both parties.  Of course the sexual can simply be quiet, and then it only sucks for them. In some ways that is the "best" solution and the one I've pretty much taken - it just seems so unfair. 

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uhtred
5 hours ago, vega57 said:

Again, HOW much and WHAT KIND?  

OK.  Mutual sex, 2X / week. In including intercourse  in a few reasonable positions (if it is comfortable for the female, if not then something like oral instead) oral for both - if they want it.  Combined with romance, cuddling, back rubs, etc. 

 

But not sure why you asked because the asexual will still not be able to enjoy it. 

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uhtred
5 hours ago, vega57 said:

That's fine.  

 

But if you really weren't 'good' with visiting relatives, would you want a steady diet of it for the rest of your life, even though it might make your partner 'happy'?  

 

How about visiting relatives 3 times a week (about as often as a lot of people want sex)?  

Yes, I spent a LOT of time with my wife's parents. Didn't enjoy it, but was happy to do it for her. 

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uhtred
5 hours ago, vega57 said:

Because he was also a liar, controlling, verbally abusive, selfish, unwilling to compromise *for me*, unfair, money-hungry, disrespectful, rude, immature, constantly angry at the world...

 

...to name a few.  

Those are all VERY good reasons not to want sex and to end a relationship.   Many of these situations are not like that though. In many cases both people are wonderful loving people  who just have a drastic difference in sex drive. 

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uhtred
4 hours ago, vega57 said:

He wasn't  diagnosed as a narcissist, but 2 of our marital therapists, and the last individual therapist I had, told me that they couldn't properly diagnose him, but that he had all of the symptoms of being a narcissist.  

 

Sam Vakin wrote a book called  Malignant Self Love: Narcissism Revisited.  At my last therapist's urging, I read it from cover to cover.  All you had to do is replace the words "he" or "she" with "S----" and it was my late husband to a Tee...even down to his fascination with his bodily functions (farting, burping, pooping, peeing, ejaculating, spitting, blowing his nose, etc.)

 

I think you were with a terrible person, and I think you did right to leave, and should have left earlier.  Few sexuals would have any interest in all in someone like that.  He sounds horrible.

 

It may have biased your view of these sexual / asexual relationships because his sexuality was coupled him being a terrible person. Most sexuals and asexuals are not terrible people - they are good to their partners. It really is just sex that is the problem in the mixed relationships. 

 

If he had been a good loving man who did everything he could to make you happy, would you have felt regular sex was OK, even if you didn't enjoy it?

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James121
6 hours ago, Username_2017 said:

I'm confused? Do you think that 99% of the sexual population would all be unhappy with sex once a month?

No. My point is that I accept lots of couples have sex once per month. I’m going to use some numbers now to make my point but the numbers are made up and only to illustrate my point.

500 couples consisting of pets A and person B have sex once per month.

Person A likes sex once per month. Person B likes sex 3 times per week. But they only have sex once per month (in line with exactly what person A wants).

There is no compromise. 

There should be a compromise.

The sex life of person A and person B should be a reflection of what they both want. It never is.

 

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James121
7 hours ago, Bronztrooper said:

What in the actual fuck has happened to this thread????????

 

giphy.gif

People have been discussing sex. It’s the theme of the thread.

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vega57
13 hours ago, uhtred said:

It may have biased your view of these sexual / asexual relationships because his sexuality was coupled him being a terrible person. Most sexuals and asexuals are not terrible people - they are good to their partners. It really is just sex that is the problem in the mixed relationships. 

He was the catalyst that got me thinking about ALL of my intimate/romantic relationships (some of them involved sex; some didn't).  I realized that in almost EVERY SINGLE RELATIONSHIP, my partner either lied --big time--or withheld important information from me.  Just a few examples...

 

One was a coke addict, even though he told me that he had 'quit' a year earlier...

Another told me he wasn't married or involved with anyone, when he actually WAS still married.  I didn't find out about that until after we split up...

Another was an alcoholic...

Another told me that when it came to pornography, he would look at it "once in a while".  Turned out that he was addicted to  it...

Another actually had several restraining orders put on him from several of his ex's.  

Another I actually  married...and he didn't bother to tell me that he had Herpes until after we were married and I was pregnant.  

 

Quote

If he had been a good loving man who did everything he could to make you happy, would you have felt regular sex was OK, even if you didn't enjoy it?

I DID have "regular" sex with these men.  Some (like my late husband) wanted it several times a day.  Others didn't seem to be bothered by it if we didn't do it for months at a time.  Since I'm not the kind of person to 'seek it out', I let them call the shots.  

 

Do "good loving men who do everything they can to make their spouse happy" REALLY exist?  Not in *my* world.  As I've mentioned before, I'm pretty independent.  Most of the partner's I had were THRILLED that I was (except for my late husband of course).  In their minds, I wasn't going to 'want' much of anything from them.  

 

It was only after I left my late husband that I really started analyzing the relationships in my life  and I realized that I...really didn't care for sex all that much.  

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frednsa

Wife, in my case................ so loong without true affection.  hate myself for my anger............hiding it pretty good..................trying to understand a person who exudes "no sex please, i'm not interested" then warns "if i ever catch you cheating" .............not a crazy person, just.................i dunno..............after so long i feel so needy and sad

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ryn2

Sorry, @frednsa... being miserable sucks. :(

 

I can’t speak for your wife in particular but some monogamous people are against affairs not so much because of the sex but because they are afraid their partner will become closest to/fall in love with the new person and choose that person over them.  People who aren’t poly usually can’t romantically love multiple people at the same time and hence have trouble envisioning their partners being able to.

 

Sometimes the fear is well-founded.  Sometimes it’s just a fear.

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uhtred
21 hours ago, vega57 said:

He was the catalyst that got me thinking about ALL of my intimate/romantic relationships (some of them involved sex; some didn't).  I realized that in almost EVERY SINGLE RELATIONSHIP, my partner either lied --big time--or withheld important information from me.  Just a few examples...

 

One was a coke addict, even though he told me that he had 'quit' a year earlier...

Another told me he wasn't married or involved with anyone, when he actually WAS still married.  I didn't find out about that until after we split up...

Another was an alcoholic...

Another told me that when it came to pornography, he would look at it "once in a while".  Turned out that he was addicted to  it...

Another actually had several restraining orders put on him from several of his ex's.  

Another I actually  married...and he didn't bother to tell me that he had Herpes until after we were married and I was pregnant.  

 

I DID have "regular" sex with these men.  Some (like my late husband) wanted it several times a day.  Others didn't seem to be bothered by it if we didn't do it for months at a time.  Since I'm not the kind of person to 'seek it out', I let them call the shots.  

 

Do "good loving men who do everything they can to make their spouse happy" REALLY exist?  Not in *my* world.  As I've mentioned before, I'm pretty independent.  Most of the partner's I had were THRILLED that I was (except for my late husband of course).  In their minds, I wasn't going to 'want' much of anything from them.  

 

It was only after I left my late husband that I really started analyzing the relationships in my life  and I realized that I...really didn't care for sex all that much.  

Some people seem to end up with a string of terrible partners - I don't know why.  There *are* good men, and good women to try to make their partners happy every day. Lots of them.  

 

You are not alone in having ended up with a bunch of losers - it seems to happen to a lot of women, but I have never seen a pattern.  

 

I'm curious, how did these relationships start? Did they seek you out, or did you find them?   

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uhtred
3 hours ago, frednsa said:

Wife, in my case................ so loong without true affection.  hate myself for my anger............hiding it pretty good..................trying to understand a person who exudes "no sex please, i'm not interested" then warns "if i ever catch you cheating" .............not a crazy person, just.................i dunno..............after so long i feel so needy and sad

It sucks - being with a partner you don't want to hurt, but who seems unable to even understand why you are unhappy. There is a subset of asexuals  (certainly not all) who think that sex is really not something people *should* do - other than to have children I guess. They see any desire for sex as a weakness, one that you should try to resist. 

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Telecaster68
8 minutes ago, uhtred said:

Some people seem to end up with a string of terrible partners - I don't know why.  There *are* good men, and good women to try to make their partners happy every day. Lots of them.  

 

You are not alone in having ended up with a bunch of losers - it seems to happen to a lot of women, but I have never seen a pattern.  

 

I'm curious, how did these relationships start? Did they seek you out, or did you find them?   

Therapists would suggest it's patterns learned in childhood replaying themselves.

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ryn2
10 minutes ago, uhtred said:

There is a subset of asexuals  (certainly not all) who think that sex is really not something people *should* do - other than to have children I guess. They see any desire for sex as a weakness, one that you should try to resist. 

Even as an ace I was shocked when my therapist, in response to a concern on my part about her views on asexuality (long story, covered elsewhere), trotted out this theory!

 

(edited to clarify that I was shocked that she said having sex is a substitute for developing true intimacy and fully-actualized people no longer need sex, NOT that I was shocked uhtred would say some ace people might feel that way)

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ryn2
7 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Therapists would suggest it's patterns learned in childhood replaying themselves.

I’ve also been told in therapy that we seek our level of emotional development in others, meaning in this case that if we’re not at a place in our lives where we are ready/able for something (to open up and be trusting, e.g.) we will be most drawn to others who are in a similar state.  It was true for me but I haven’t really discussed it with enough people to gauge its overall accuracy.

 

I do think it’s important to identify the draw where there’s a pattern... so as not to leave one relationship only to find similar issues in the next one.

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Telecaster68

I think there's some truth in that. At least, we find people with similar levels of openness and behaviours more comfortable. The mechanisms and reasons that they behave like that might be massively different, and as the relationship develops, that's where the fault lines show.

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