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Moonchaser

Interesting article about seeking sex outside one's marriage

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Moonchaser

I found this interesting as an ace married to a sexual, and in light of the discussions here that I see sometimes around seeking sex outside of one's marriage. It's just an interesting perspective that people here might want to discuss or at least read:

 

What Sleeping With Married Men Taught Me About Infidelity
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/style/modern-love-sleeping-with-married-men-infidelity.html

 

 

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vega57
6 hours ago, Moonchaser said:

I found this interesting as an ace married to a sexual, and in light of the discussions here that I see sometimes around seeking sex outside of one's marriage. It's just an interesting perspective that people here might want to discuss or at least read:

 

What Sleeping With Married Men Taught Me About Infidelity
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/style/modern-love-sleeping-with-married-men-infidelity.html

 

 

Wow.  Umm...I have a 'few' (understatement) points I want to address about this article.

 

Quote

I dated married men for companionship 

No.  She dated married men for an entitled ego boost.  A few months in therapy might clear her head.  

 

Quote

In a couple of cases, the men I met were married to women who had become disabled and could no longer be sexual, but the husbands remained devoted to them.

 Devoted?  What does "devoted" mean to these people?  I knew of a man whose wife was dying of breast cancer.  He would go to work, come home, and carry her to the bathroom.  Meanwhile, he was also cheating on her because "he had his 'needs'".  I also knew another man whose wife also died of breast cancer.  He was with her every step of the way.  He never cheated, never strayed.  Which man was more "devoted" to his wife and his vows?  

 

Quote

It’s also a tall order to have sex with the same person for more years than our ancestors ever hoped to live. Then, at menopause, a woman’s hormones suddenly drop and her desire can wane.

If it's such a tall order, then why get married in the first place?  

 

And yes, a woman's hormones can drop at menopause, but they can also spike.  Besides, here at AVEN, it's well known that having a libido doesn't mean there's an automatic desire for partnered sex (that is, sex with someone)  


 

Quote

 

At 49, I was just about there myself, and terrified of losing my desire for sex. Men don’t have this drastic change

 

The author speaks as if ALL men don't have this change, which is nothing short of the truth.  SOME men do.  Others don't.  We have no REAL way of telling how many.  


I

Quote

 

If you read the work of Esther Perel, the author of the recently published book “State of Affairs,” you’ll learn that, for many wives, sex outside of marriage is their way of breaking free from being the responsible spouses and mothers they have to be at home. Married sex, for them, often feels obligatory. An affair is adventure.

Meanwhile, the husbands I spent time with would have been fine with obligatory sex. For them, adventure wasn’t the main reason for their adultery.

 

Ugh.  I should have known by the context of the article that the author would be a fan of Esther Perel's.  

 

Married sex can feel obligatory for both men and women.  I mean, who wants to be told that you MUST have sex...or else?  

 

Plus, if the husband's would be "fine" with obligatory sex, doesn't that shoot the I-have-to-have-sex-to-feel-loved script right out of the cannon?  If your spouse is having sex with you out of obligation, HOW are you feeling "loved", OR...do you even CARE?  

 

Quote

“It’s not necessarily a lie if you don’t confess the truth,” he said. “It’s kinder to stay silent.”

Typical if-a-tree-falls-in-the-forest-does-it-make-a-sound cheater-speak.  


 

Quote

 

Physical intimacy with other human beings is essential to our health and well-being

 

Tell that to all of the asexuals who HAVEN'T had sex!  It's been noted in other studies that being sexless and single is preferable for them and they're not 'suffering' because of it.  In fact, they're actually happier than their married counterparts! 

 

Quote

After our second night together, though, I could tell this was about more than sex for him; he was desperate for affection. He said he wanted to be close to his wife but couldn’t because they were unable to get past their fundamental disconnect: lack of sex, which led to a lack of closeness, which made sex even less likely and then turned into resentment and blame.

Or maybe the lack of 'closeness' was due to the 'closeness' ALWAYS leading to sex...?  There are plenty of asexuals and sexuals who wouldn't have a problem showing their partner physical affection...IF, it didn't lead to a sexual encounter.  

 

Also, now that the cheater had sex with the author (twice), was he feeling "close" to the author?  Is sex the ONLY way this guy could feel "close" to anyone?  

 

Quote

 

What these husbands couldn’t do was have the difficult discussion with their wives that would force them to tackle the issues at the root of their cheating. They tried to convince me they were being kind by keeping their affairs secret. They seemed to have convinced themselves. But deception and lying are ultimately corrosive, not kind.

In the end, I had to wonder if what these men couldn’t face was something else altogether: hearing why their wives no longer wanted to have sex with them. It’s much easier, after all, to set up an account on Tinder.

 

Oh, puh-LEEZ.  These guys weren't being "kind" to their wives, and they KNOW that.  After all, how well do you think they would take it if their wives cheated on THEM and offered the SAME excuse?  "Darling, I love you.  I didn't tell you about the cheating because I was being KIND to you".  Do you think the men would say, "Oh, o.k.  Thank you for screwing someone else and not telling me!  I appreciate your 'kindness".  Now, let's order some pizza!"  

 

Cheating comes down to ONE thing and ONE thing alone:  Entitlement.  Cheaters feel entitled to "have" what they don't have, and/or, entitled to have MORE of what they've ALWAYS had.  Their ego is running the show, and they have no problem giving into it.  

 

Ironically, a cheater would NOT like to be cheated on.  But they don't have the morals to apply the Golden Rule to themselves.  

 

 

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smittyw

There are some obvious biases and a lack of knowledge about other lifestyles than the monogamous, straight, romantic/allosexual norm here. But I think it is very interesting to see a shift in thinking, that people should be more open about their feelings specifically about sex and whether or not their married relationships are worth continuing without it. A lot of asexuals in these types of relationships with sexual people might want their partner to be happy, but not want to engage in sex themselves, which is somewhat addressed in the article:

Quote

I met one man whose wife had implicitly consented to her husband having a lover because she was no longer interested in sex, at all.

Quote

He said he wanted to be close to his wife but couldn’t because they were unable to get past their fundamental disconnect: lack of sex, which led to a lack of closeness, which made sex even less likely and then turned into resentment and blame.

The second quote seems more like the wife was misunderstood by her husband, and that the lack of sexual desire in general was equated to her not loving him anymore...which was probably not true (emphasis on probably, given the lack of information). The problem is that most people fail to realize they can seek another solution than these two that are presented. Coming to terms with your a/sexuality sometimes means coming to terms with an incompatibility with your partner, and if that is true, then why shouldn't you look for someone who shares the same values? If, like the first quote, you are okay with your partner seeking sexual encounters with other people, that is fine too – but it may be off-putting for the many romantic asexuals who want their SO to be devoted to them as a romantic partner.

 

With more information and stories like this being spread about relationships, I think it could be beneficial to the ace community. It opens the door to really talk about the existence and validity of asexual people who are already in relationships, and that can lead to some acceptance and understanding that hasn't been very common in the past.

 

P.S. I agree with all the points you made, @vega57, hahah. There were so many issues in the way these people were handling their feelings and lying to their spouses in the guise of "kindness"... please. Just tell them what you want, you are already halfway to destroying your relationship on your own!!

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vega57
3 minutes ago, smittyw said:

The second quote seems more like the wife was misunderstood by her husband, and that the lack of sexual desire in general was equated to her not loving him anymore...

And yet, the author stated that the husbands were seeking ANY sex; not ANY "love".  These men who had the affair with the author...did they "love" the author while having sex with her?  

 

From what she wrote, doesn't seem so.  So, they want to have sex with their wives in order to feel "loved", yet they'll have sex with someone else WITHOUT "love".  

 

Is it any wonder why so many wives may not believe that their husbands "love" them through sex, if their husband's go off and have sex with someone else?  

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smittyw
28 minutes ago, vega57 said:

And yet, the author stated that the husbands were seeking ANY sex; not ANY "love".  These men who had the affair with the author...did they "love" the author while having sex with her?  

 

From what she wrote, doesn't seem so.  So, they want to have sex with their wives in order to feel "loved", yet they'll have sex with someone else WITHOUT "love".  

 

Is it any wonder why so many wives may not believe that their husbands "love" them through sex, if their husband's go off and have sex with someone else?  

Good point, it is strange how people can equate sex to love only in their "devoted" relationships but not with a one-night-stand. Is it really necessary to have sex for them to feel loved? No. Is it necessary for them based on their sexuality, or acting on their libido? Probably. But I guess it is hard for some people to differentiate. If it were really just love they wanted to find, they would be trying to connect on a different level with their wives instead - or spending time on a fishing trip with friends as the author suggested, maybe looking for platonic love.

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roland.o

Despite the shortcomings pointed out above, I like this sentence from the article:

 

I believe the answer is honesty and dialogue, no matter how frightening.

 

So she came to the right conclusion, didn't she?

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vega57
2 minutes ago, roland.o said:

Despite the shortcomings pointed out above, I like this sentence from the article:

 

I believe the answer is honesty and dialogue, no matter how frightening.

 

So she came to the right conclusion, didn't she?

What "conclusion"?  

 

Oh wait...sorry...

 

Yes, honesty and dialogue is needed.  But how many people are "honest" about their intentions? 

 

So many people don't want to talk.  How many sexuals do we know of who will actually come out and say, "Hey!  I like your body, and I just want to use it to get off!"  

 

The author is a woman who had NO PROBLEM with screwing someone else's husband.  Was she "honest" with his wife?

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roland.o

about what the key to successful relationships is

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vega57
6 minutes ago, roland.o said:

about what the key to successful relationships is

I'm sorry, roland but...define "successful".  

 

My mother-in-law stayed with an abusive man for over 60 years, until his death.  I witnessed his abuse...and called him on it several times while married to my late husband.  

Does staying legally married until death make a marriage "successful"?  

 

What exactly defines a "successful" relationship?  

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roland.o

I'm not interested in getting into a definition debate. You're free to seek your own question to the answer "42".

 

On my first instinct, I had typed "lasting, happy". I replaced that with "successful", thinking that sometimes honesty and dialogue must also lead to a break-up because an incompatibility of the partners becomes apparent. Short relationships can be successful, if both partners got something out of it. And part of the dialogue would be to find out what each partner considers a successful relationship. They don't even need to have the same views on it, as long as their ideas are not in contradiction. The "success" of a relationship is not something that someone outside of a particular relationship should define for the partners. And an amicable break-up before success turns to failure leaves the relationship a successful one, despite its end in time.

 

If your mother-in-law considered staying married to an abusive man until death a successful relationship, that wouldn't be something I could relate to, but I wouldn't be in a position to call her at fault for it either. Would she have stayed, or would the relationship have remained abusive, if there had been an honest and open dialogue about it between her and that man? I doubt it. And please don't ask what I consider "an honest and open dialogue" next. Certainly not a dialogue in which one participant is afraid of more abuse from the other.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)

I couldn't bring myself to read the article, but got a good idea of the content from @vega57's response to it. People who fuck other people's partners literally make me sick to my stomach - they're the vermin that spread diseases to faithful, loyal spouses who suddenly wake up with genital herpes and have no idea where it came from and are stuck with the disease for life even though they were faithful every day of their relationship. Sick. If they want to fuck anything that walks, they shouldn't have got into a relationship in the first place unless both partners agree beforehand to be poly. Urgh, I think I need a bath now just from reading the quotes from the article in Vega's comment.

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Moonchaser
On 4/8/2018 at 1:17 PM, vega57 said:

I'm sorry, roland but...define "successful".  

 

My mother-in-law stayed with an abusive man for over 60 years, until his death.  I witnessed his abuse...and called him on it several times while married to my late husband.  

Does staying legally married until death make a marriage "successful"?  

 

What exactly defines a "successful" relationship?  

That's a profound question that I'm not sure has anything but a profound, complex answer for anyone, and everyone probably has their own answer.

 

Some things you and others said in earlier posts on this thread made me realize that there is probably an aromantic/romantic spectrum for sexuals, just as there is for asexuals, and that is at least in part going to determine whether someone with an ace partner (or a disabled partner) is going to want to seek sex outside their marriage. I know that in my own, even though my spouse has my permission he has never carried through. He's a very romantic person and I suspect that's a big part of it. An aromantic might be able to separate sex from love easier than a romantic. This is just supposition, thinking out loud. I don't really know.

 

The thing that bothers me the most about the article is where spouses were doing things behind their spouses' backs. To me if one is going to do that, it's best done with permission, with openness and honesty. Otherwise why be married? Being cheated on would hurt most people much more than having the dreaded conversation about not getting enough sex.

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vega57
9 minutes ago, Moonchaser said:

That's a profound question that I'm not sure has anything but a profound, complex answer for anyone, and everyone probably has their own answer.

One of the reasons I brought it up is because I have seen/read/heard about so many people who claim that their relationship is "successful".  Case in point:

 

Them:  I FOUND him/her!  He/She's "THE ONE!"  

Me:  Wonderful!  How long have you two been together?

Them:  Two months!

Me:  (Blank stare)

 

My mother-in-law would probably see her marriage as "successful" simply because she remained married "until death do us part".  Yet, she was miserable the whole time. Others might stay together in a 'wonderful' relationship for 18 months and part as 'friends', also calling the relationship "successful".   

 

Quote

Some things you and others said in earlier posts on this thread made me realize that there is probably an aromantic/romantic spectrum for sexuals, just as there is for asexuals, and that is at least in part going to determine whether someone with an ace partner (or a disabled partner) is going to want to seek sex outside their marriage. I know that in my own, even though my spouse has my permission he has never carried through. He's a very romantic person and I suspect that's a big part of it. An aromantic might be able to separate sex from love easier than a romantic. This is just supposition, thinking out loud. I don't really know.

O.k.  I can see where  you're coming from.  :)

 

Quote

The thing that bothers me the most about the article is where spouses were doing things behind their spouses' backs. To me if one is going to do that, it's best done with permission, with openness and honesty. Otherwise why be married? Being cheated on would hurt most people much more than having the dreaded conversation about not getting enough sex.

Oh, i dunno.  I think that having permission to cheat is still cheating...just done with knowledge.  

 

But why be married anyway, even if you have permission from your spouse to seek out sex from someone else?  

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James121

What struck me as being particularly relevant and maybe even overwhelming when I read the article was.....

 

What surprised me was that these husbands weren’t looking to have more sex. They were looking to have any sex.”

 

So in a nutshell, a bunch of woman (in this case), married their men, probably had sex with them early on in the relationship, had sex in order to breed (as it suited their motivations) then stopped nearly altogether or completely. Then, when hubby gets disillusioned with rejection after rejection after rejection, he’s been patient with no improvement, has raised the issue only to be accused of being ‘sex obsessed’ and eventually he finds a way to make himself feel happy again instead of feeling repulsive (which is how his wife is making him feel). 

 

Hmmmm, I’m scratching my head on this one. I can’t understand why anyone would do such a terrible thing. 2+2=?

 

Notice how the men are described by this woman as “devoted”. I suppose you could question their devotion based on their cheating but then again we really ought to be questioning the so called pathetic ‘devotion’ from the wives who froze their spouses out long enough for this to happen. 

Clearly if someone is an arse and cheats early on in a relationship or regardless of whether they still have a physical love life then they are an arse. These people are rare though. When someone has been frozen out long enough and turns to cheating, it’s not because they wanted to cheat it’s because their weak and selfish spouses had no further interest and thus made no further effort.

And in the cold light of the day, if the worst happens and the cheating is revealed, they cry on the shoulders of their friends screaming “how could they do this to me, I just didn’t see this coming”. They assume the right to be labelled ‘victim’. Oh no you are not. Not a victim. You are a participant in this. In fact I would say you the primary cause.

You stand on a train track long enough and you expect to be hit by a train.

2+2=4

You freeze your spouse out long enough and....it’s your gamble. Roll your dice... 

🎲 🎲 

 

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Sally
2 hours ago, James121 said:

What struck me as being particularly relevant and maybe even overwhelming when I read the article was.....

 

What surprised me was that these husbands weren’t looking to have more sex. They were looking to have any sex.”

 

So in a nutshell, a bunch of woman (in this case), married their men, probably had sex with them early on in the relationship, had sex in order to breed (as it suited their motivations) then stopped nearly altogether or completely. Then, when hubby gets disillusioned with rejection after rejection after rejection, he’s been patient with no improvement, has raised the issue only to be accused of being ‘sex obsessed’ and eventually he finds a way to make himself feel happy again instead of feeling repulsive (which is how his wife is making him feel). 

 

Hmmmm, I’m scratching my head on this one. I can’t understand why anyone would do such a terrible thing. 2+2=?

 

Notice how the men are described by this woman as “devoted”. I suppose you could question their devotion based on their cheating but then again we really ought to be questioning the so called pathetic ‘devotion’ from the wives who froze their spouses out long enough for this to happen. 

Clearly if someone is an arse and cheats early on in a relationship or regardless of whether they still have a physical love life then they are an arse. These people are rare though. When someone has been frozen out long enough and turns to cheating, it’s not because they wanted to cheat it’s because their weak and selfish spouses had no further interest and thus made no further effort.

And in the cold light of the day, if the worst happens and the cheating is revealed, they cry on the shoulders of their friends screaming “how could they do this to me, I just didn’t see this coming”. They assume the right to be labelled ‘victim’. Oh no you are not. Not a victim. You are a participant in this. In fact I would say you the primary cause.

You stand on a train track long enough and you expect to be hit by a train.

2+2=4

You freeze your spouse out long enough and....it’s your gamble. Roll your dice... 

🎲 🎲 

 

But the "hubbies" didn't have the courage to tell their wives that would were going to seek sex outside marriage.  Instead, they cheated.  People who cheat are jerks.  

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James121
2 hours ago, Sally said:

But the "hubbies" didn't have the courage to tell their wives that would were going to seek sex outside marriage.  Instead, they cheated.  People who cheat are jerks.  

No one should ever be made or put in a position where they are having to utter those words.

People who cheat are jerks.

People who pretend that they ‘didn’t realise their partner wanted sex’ are jerks.

And people who simply refuse because they don’t need sex are also jerks.

Theres lots of jerks in the world.

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James121
On 09/04/2018 at 10:02 PM, Moonchaser said:

Otherwise why be married?

I think exactly the same when it comes to spouses who refuse and decline sex and lie for years about being “far too tired” or besieged with the worst headache a human can endure (even though it wasn’t there 5 minutes ago). Why did you get married? Sex is definitely we’ll know to be a part of marriage so why get married and have to make excuses and lies up for the rest of your life? Financial gain?

 

On 09/04/2018 at 10:02 PM, Moonchaser said:

To me if one is going to do that, it's best done with permission, with openness and honesty.

You’re assuming permission is likely to be granted. In 99% of cases where sex has either all but evaporated or gone completely, the person who doesn’t want or isn’t fussed by sex does not permit anything at all. Often (not always) this is because they are selfish people with narcissistic traits who sculpt a relationship in to something that suits their needs alone without consideration for their partner.

 

On 09/04/2018 at 10:02 PM, Moonchaser said:

Being cheated on would hurt most people much more than having the dreaded conversation about not getting enough sex.

But being cheated on, as painful as I’m guessing that would be, doesn’t even begin to compare with being rejected for years, made to feel sexually inadequate or sexually repulsive, physically unappealing, unwanted (I could go on but I’ll stop there) and then when you do say something you are told you are sex obsessed. Again you make a big assumption that all refusing spouses are open to this type of discussion. They are not! Far from it in fact. If you don’t believe me, create a thread in the sexual allies section asking people if they have tried to discuss this with their spouses and what reaction they got. It’s usually to brand the person as the following:

a user (sexually)

sex obsessed 

inconsiderate/selfish

a deviant 

The main ones are sex obsessed and inconsiderate.

“You are just sex obsessed and selfish and you want to use me”.

Would that put you off having the conversation with your spouse?

 

Where did did you find this article by the way?

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ryn2
On 4/15/2018 at 10:09 AM, James121 said:

Financial gain?

I must have made really poor SO choices because being married has led to significant fiancial loss (all along, not just here at the likely end) for me in comparison to being alone.

 

Alas, I thought that was balanced out by the good things about being together...

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gaogao

Saying that cheating can be acceptable if there isn't enough sex within the relationship without any qualifiers just strikes me as blaming the other partner for not giving "enough" if someone cheats... And who draws the line for when cheating is/isn't acceptable? Like... How little sex is too little? How much is enough? Sure, I can't deny that there must be some correlation between wanting sex, not getting any sex, and then seeking sex somewhere you might get some, but who determines whether someone's cheating is justified when the only reason was "we aren't having enough sex?" and not also "We aren't having enough sex and I can't/don't want/think it's pointless to talk to my partner about it"

 

That second point is a big indicator that the communication in the relationship has already broken down.

 

One person might be okay with having sex only once a month but for other people that might be still be way too little, and for asexuals that already sounds like rather a lot. If you're suffering, no matter how much/how little sex you feel you need, why not have a proper talk with your partner and say outright what is upsetting you, what you plan to do and offer to talk to them about it? If your partner agrees, then go ahead and come to some mutual understanding, whether that's compromise, scheduled sex or opening up the relationship or even breaking up. If they say no and refuse to talk about why they don't care about what is making you sad, then you can either leave or risk cheating if you're sexual (knowing that your partner might be hurt by it, unfortunately), or refuse sex altogether if you're ace (knowing that your partner might be hurt by it and may cheat, unfortunately) - if the relationship falls apart whether it's because of cheating or betrayal or trust or whatever, at least your partner can take some responsibility for your suffering because you genuinely tried to open up a dialogue about the issue. 

 

The other part of this is that I think most people just don't realise how little reference asexuals have for what role sex plays in peoples' lives. Even some self-identifying asexuals seriously underestimate how unnecessary sex is for asexuals (or overestimate this for sexuals). Most asexuals usually do know that sex is culturally important in modern day life, but we just don't know how it works and can't identify with it, so we try to slot ourselves in somewhere, whether it's "i'm weird/broken" "everyone else is just like me and no one else should need sex either, jeeze". It's an intellectual knowing, but not something we have experience with, so we might struggle to believe that our whole world view/understanding of how sexuality works is wrong.*

 

I think one has to realise that we genuinely DO NOT KNOW how much suffering you're going through and if you don't say anything I think it's normal for us to feel betrayed because you didn't trust us with talking about something so fundamental about how you're feeling. We don't know how much sex people need, because we genuinely don't need it,  and often don't realise that our experiences aren't universal because our society also just doesn't talk that much about sex in the first place.

 

*I think it's a bit like.. I've never had a cavity in my life. (Still haven't, and I'm 28) My teeth are really strong - and as I was growing up I just assumed everyone who got cavities was just careless and didn't brush their teeth or ate too many candies even though I knew it was something that could happen to anyone. I had no idea that it's genuinely just that for some reason, my teeth are bloody strong. It's also like how people have been really mean about the acne I had as a teen until my mid-20s and said I was dirty/should wash my face more - but I have acne because of hormonal issues and now that I'm on the pill i've not had a breakout like the ones I had back then. It's just, personal experience... 

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James121
22 hours ago, gaogao said:

why not have a proper talk with your partner and say outright what is upsetting you, what you plan to do and offer to talk to them about it?

You will find (I guarantee this) that all sexual partners HAVE tried to discuss this with their partners and the results are consistently the same......DARVO.

 

Deny the issue exists 

Attack the person who suggests it does

Reverse the 

Victim and

Offender

 

Problem solved.

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gaogao

@James121 Right. I'm the asexual partner in my relationship and I totally DARVO'd my girlfriend when she tried to talk to me, and that's why I'm here sharing my experiences of how i made my relationship work. 

 

Sure.

 

OK.

 

Thanks for that. 

 

*edit, this is super sarcastic, just in case anyone was wondering.

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ryn2
1 hour ago, James121 said:

You will find (I guarantee this) that all sexual partners HAVE tried to discuss this with their partners and the results are consistently the same......DARVO.

 

Deny the issue exists 

Attack the person who suggests it does

Reverse the 

Victim and

Offender

 

Problem solved.

I have to agree with @gaogao here.  My sexual husband basically did not raise the issue (and he does agree with this - I specifically asked in counseling a couple of weeks ago if he’d brought it up earlier and I’d missed it but he agreed he had not) until he announced he was planning to divorce me.  When I offered to look into compromising he echoed what several have said here: that there is no compromise because he wants to be genuinely sexually desired, and that knowing I am ace has actually made all the years we did have sex into lies.

 

I say “basically did not” because one time (just one) many years ago he did say something along the lines of “I’m not good at picking up on nonverbal things, so I’m not sure how to know when you want to have sex or not.”  I (perhaps mistakenly) took that at face value and assured him it was fine; we could have it when he wanted to and if I didn’t want to I would say so.

 

Literally the only other time he ever mentioned anything similar was before we were married, when he worried that a coworker had told him “sex is like beans in a jar - you put a bean in every time you have sex before marriage, and every time after marriage you take a bean out.  When the jar is empty you’re done having sex forever.”  We were having sex regularly at that point anyway.

 

While you’re doubtless right in some cases and perhaps even right in many or most, this wouldn’t be the time to bet your mortgage on a guarantee that this is always the case.

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Telecaster68

I'm confused. How did he know you were asexual since you'd never discussed it?

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ryn2
11 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm confused. How did he know you were asexual since you'd never discussed it?

He didn’t, officially, until he told me he wanted to end the marriage.  That’s the first time we discussed it.  He said then, and again in counseling, that he had wondered if I was and had perhaps figured it out before I did (he is about 11 years younger than I am and works at a university so before I got into fandom he had more exposure to younger people and their views on things).

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Telecaster68

Wow, so the whole divorce thing was totally out of the blue? That's pretty bad.

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James121
1 hour ago, gaogao said:

@James121 Right. I'm the asexual partner in my relationship and I totally DARVO'd my girlfriend when she tried to talk to me, and that's why I'm here sharing my experiences of how i made my relationship work. 

 

Sure.

 

OK.

 

Thanks for that. 

 

*edit, this is super sarcastic, just in case anyone was wondering.

If you darvo’d her I’m surprised it still works.

 

*edit, this was also super sarcastic*

Edited by James121

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James121
1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

My sexual husband basically did not raise the issue

Most people don’t feel comfortable raising it as it is socially unacceptable to raise a lack of sex. What people tend to do is call you sex obsessed.

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ryn2
1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Wow, so the whole divorce thing was totally out of the blue? That's pretty bad.

It was out of the blue to me, yes. I explained it - long version - in the compromise thread a while back but this is the shorter version:

 

My husband has always had significant ED (even before we married).  He has always been extremely uncomfortable talking about sex, to the point where he would shut down or become very upset.

 

Several years ago he stopped initiating sex.  He says (and I believe him - I just don’t recall the event) this was because I turned him down while on vacation.  I almost never turned him down but was quite seasick that trip so it’s doubtless true.

 

We had a lot of other things going on - trouble with work and hobbies - so I figured the change was due to that... and then I gradually thought maybe he was ace (or gay) too and that had caused the ED.

 

The first I found out it wasn’t that was late this January.

 

In hindsight not insisting on talking about it was a big mistake.

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Telecaster68
5 minutes ago, James121 said:

Most people don’t feel comfortable raising it as it is socially unacceptable to raise a lack of sex. What people tend to do is call you sex obsessed.

 

A distressingly bad sex life is something that ought to be discussed though, rather than just jumping straight to divorce. It might well have been fixable, if he was able to be live with sex without desire, and ryn was willing to have sex.

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ryn2
5 minutes ago, James121 said:

Most people don’t feel comfortable raising it as it is socially unacceptable to raise a lack of sex. What people tend to do is call you sex obsessed.

You can’t not even have the conversation and then say you were DARVO’d anyway, though.

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