How do you make it work?

[emcd]

7 hours ago, Xayah said:

I'm on the asexual side of a marriage. Firstly, try to keep in mind that our media has convinced everyone that a proper relationship includes the perfect blend of romance, support, and sex between two (usually attractive) (usually hetero) sexuals. This steamy romance obviously culminates in a family, and a beautiful home, and a functional automobile, and great careers, etc. And it's supposed to stay perfect like this forever. There's so much focus by media on the courtship aspect of marriage, not the struggles that come after a couple is married (loss of libido, finding out one person is asexual, etc). Instead, the only relationship problem ever portrayed on TV is cheating between two sexual partners. Its overdone and replayed again and again.

I never felt like an underrepresented minority until I realized I was not exactly sexual. Now I realize why everyone in LGBT is outraged. Because not being represented (ever) makes you feel like a freak. Like you don't belong in society. Like there is something wrong with, and deficient, about you. I immediately assumed something was wrong with me and went to therapy and physio to try and figure out what was wrong with my sex drive when everyone else around me appeared to have perfect sexual relationships. You're on the opposite end, trying to figure out why your relationship is flawed, because the media doesn't represent your particular situation either. And you have no idea how to deal with your situation because you've never been exposed to a relatable marriage story - in person or in media - because people who have the same problem are too afraid and embarrassed to talk about it because they think their problem is one of a kind, because, again, media only portrays sexual relationships.

But obviously your husband does love you and finds you attractive because he's trying to make it work. I have the same issue as your husband. I have to shower and schedule. Not because I find my partner unattractive or appalling, but because I don't feel comfortable with my physical body and bodily fluids, and I don't want to get him dirty and gross. I know it sounds childish, but I find all bodily fluids gross despite numerous attempts to accept them. I just can't get used to it. It's not attrative to me. I like feeling clean. And feeling unclean is a massive romantic turnoff, which frustrates the problem even more. 

You need to accept that he probably has an aversion to bodily fluids (yours and his), but he needs to accept that you have sexual needs. You should work together to find a way that he can pleasure you that's more in his comfort zone. It's not going to be the picture-perfect Hollywood way. Would you be okay if he used devices sometimes? You could buy sex toys and vibrators that you find adventurous and exciting and he can use them to make you feel good. As for the skin contact and touch aspect, would you settle for a massage that wasn't TOO sexual (ie. back and foot massage, maybe calves and thighs, but not anywhere... too adventurous?) If intimate body contact is important, which it probably is, decide on occasional special times each month where you can have body contact as well. 

He's allowing you to find a sexual partner on the side, not because he wants to break up, but because he really loves you and feels extremely guilty for not fulfilling your needs. It's the desperate compromise he's trying to make to keep your relationship together. You asked if he doesn't want to have sex ever again and he hasn't responded yet. If that's the case, he's probably leaning towards yes. For some reason, he's become very adverse to the idea of sex even though he loves you and probably wants to find a fair compromise. Maybe there's too much frequency, or maybe he feels uncomfortable with the language used, or certain actions. But he's petrified to tell you because he knows it will break your heart and make you feel undesirable. You are NOT undesirable. That he tried to make all these sacrifices and compromises to make your relationship work shows how much he loves you. That he's afraid to answer shows that he's desperately trying to find the right wording, or right compromise in hopes that, if he does, you will realize how much he loves you despite being adverse to sex and agree to stay with him. I think that's really romantic. 

I think you need to talk openly with him. Ask him what makes him uncomfortable about sex. Is it the fluids? Is it sexualized language or foreplay? Maybe there's a certain area of his body he doesn't like being touched. Try to cut out or reduce whatever aspect bothers him most.  Then ask what he doesn't mind as much, what he would be willing to do. Does he like any aspect of sex? Maybe he likes feeling the warmth of your body. Then take a step back, and start from square one. Don't pressure him into anything too intimate. First find a way to stimulate your body, together, while keeping intimate contact with him to a minimum. Slowly reintroduce comfortable contact, by reciprocating with a backrub or foot massage that will make him feel good but not uncomfortable. If he grew up hearing that sex is dirty, ask him to read a few books that help people see sex in a positive light. (I had one in mind but cant remember the title off hand - I'll post if I remember.) 

How is it different that sharing a room with siblings? Well I don't kiss my siblings, or share a house with siblings, or a bed, or unconditional constant support. I don't go out of my way to make my siblings dinner despite hating cooking because I want to show how much I love them. I don't want to snuggle with my siblings or go on romantic dates with them. I still love and enjoy romance.

So the questions are: should we stay together? Yes. You sound like an almost perfect couple to me ;P

How long do I wait for him to decide if he's ever willing to touch me again? Try to take it slowly and figure out what bothers him about sex. 

How can I make him more comfortable about it? He may never be completely comfortable with genitals and fluids, but you can have him read a few books to help him see sex in a more positive light. Having him participate and ask questions on this forum would be a good idea too. Peoples success stories can be really encouraging. Both of you will need to make compromises, but its always worth it if you really love each other.

I would love to hear from some of you mixed couples who ARE figuring out a way to make it work. How do you do it? Same as you. Struggling, talking things through, making compromises, trying different ideas, constantly reminding each other that we love each other, going on romantic outings, trying to understand the other person's perspective, going out of our comfort zone on occasion when it's really required. 

Is everyone totally happy? No one is ever totally happy all the time in their relationship. There is always a struggle: too much working and not spending enough time together, money issues, libido issues, differing life goals. 

Thank you for this advice. I appreciate it very much!

[uhtred]

On 4/8/2018 at 1:49 AM, Lara Black said:

Hello, Emcd.

SNIP

My partner doesn’t have sex, but he gives me sexual pleasure. With this he is comfortable enough to initiate things himself – he just knows that he makes me very happy this way and does it every time he wants to “make me a gift”. He is happy to see me satisfied. And he helps me feel attractive because he often compliments me as an aesthetic object – he doesn’t have to want me to know I’m pretty.

Actually, he notices much more about me than men who only look at lips-hips-tits.

So, would I like for my partner to want sex with me? You bet! But its absence doesn’t stop me from being happy in our relationship because I’m physically satisfied, and he is simply amazing as a partner.

I think that there is a lot of variation in these mixed relationships.  A partner who doesn't enjoy sex themselves, but enjoys pleasing you as a "gift", and where you do other nice things for them can work out well.    Its not as nice as being desired, but a partner who desires to please can still feel like love. 

 

For some of us our asexual or near- asexual partners really don't enjoy pleasing us - and there is no joy in having your partner do something that they find unpleasant / disgusting. 

 

Lots of variation in these situations, some things work for some couples but not for others. 

[uhtred]

2 hours ago, emcd said:

Can you please clarify? I didn’t see your response as snarky at all, I appreciate the bluntness. I guess my real question/concern to this is: if we separate (and I don’t want to) and he moves on to someone else, I will always wonder why it DOES work for them and be hurt that he wasn’t willing to figure out how to make it work with me. Does that make sense? I know it’s completely illogical, but I have learned that logic and emotions are two competing entities.

He might find a happy relationship with another asexual, You might find one with another sexual.    Its really no different than discovering that your partner is gay (assuming a straight relationship), and that they would be happier with someone else.  Nothing you (or they) did wrong, just a mismatch. 

 

Some things simply cannot be made to work. 

[ryn2]

12 hours ago, Xayah said:

How is it different that sharing a room with siblings? Well I don't kiss my siblings, or share a house with siblings, or a bed, or unconditional constant support. I don't go out of my way to make my siblings dinner despite hating cooking because I want to show how much I love them. I don't want to snuggle with my siblings or go on romantic dates with them. I still love and enjoy romance.

This seems like such a hard thing to come to ace/allo common terms on.

 

As another married ace, I feel exactly this same way; my loving feelings towards my spouse are little or nothing like my feelings for even my closest friends and other family... but yet from my spouse’s perspective we are evidently “just friends” now.

 

I wonder if for (at least some) allosexuals it’s not just difficult but impossible to separate romantic and sexual feelings, so with the loss of one comes the loss of the other.

 

Not trying to judge or offend anyone... just genuinely curious, as this (is a problem for me, yes, but also) seems to come up with some regularity.  It’s also likely at least part of why the approach of “break it off but stay friends” seems reasonable from one direction and simultaneously intensely painful from the other.

[anisotrophic]

4 hours ago, uhtred said:

Its really no different than discovering that your partner is gay (assuming a straight relationship)

Oh how I wish this were the case! 

 

1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

I wonder if for (at least some) allosexuals it’s not just difficult but impossible to separate romantic and sexual feelings, so with the loss of one comes the loss of the other.

I'm allo, I feel able to separate these. They are by default entangled, but I guess it feels a bit like learning an inversion of FWB?

But I'm an odd one, this can't be true for all allos. (Just as not everyone is happy with FWB.)

[uhtred]

1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

This seems like such a hard thing to come to ace/allo common terms on.

 

As another married ace, I feel exactly this same way; my loving feelings towards my spouse are little or nothing like my feelings for even my closest friends and other family... but yet from my spouse’s perspective we are evidently “just friends” now.

 

I wonder if for (at least some) allosexuals it’s not just difficult but impossible to separate romantic and sexual feelings, so with the loss of one comes the loss of the other.

 

Not trying to judge or offend anyone... just genuinely curious, as this (is a problem for me, yes, but also) seems to come up with some regularity.  It’s also likely at least part of why the approach of “break it off but stay friends” seems reasonable from one direction and simultaneously intensely painful from the other.

How would you describe the difference between your feelings for a person you love, from your feelings for your closest friend?

 

For me, if you remove the sexual component, I don't think that there really is a difference.   I will go to great lengths to help my friends, and they have done so for me. I enjoy talking to them, spending time with them etc.  

 

For me there is no boundary between "touch" and "sex", so I can't imagine a casually intimate relationship (touches, kisses etc) that didn't include sex.   (in case you are wondering, I do find hugging relatives to be uncomfortable - I do it out of politeness, but it doesn't feel right to me). 

[ryn2]

19 minutes ago, uhtred said:

How would you describe the difference between your feelings for a person you love, from your feelings for your closest friend?

 

For me, if you remove the sexual component, I don't think that there really is a difference.   I will go to great lengths to help my friends, and they have done so for me. I enjoy talking to them, spending time with them etc.  

 

For me there is no boundary between "touch" and "sex", so I can't imagine a casually intimate relationship (touches, kisses etc) that didn't include sex.   (in case you are wondering, I do find hugging relatives to be uncomfortable - I do it out of politeness, but it doesn't feel right to me). 

It’s hard to explain in terms of feelings; I love him more than anyone and consider him my life partner.  I think about him every day and look forward to seeing him every evening.

 

From a more action-focused standpoint, I sleep with (as in, in the same bed, typically not dressed) my SO, see him every day, own a house with him, eat meals with him if we’re both home.  Whenever there’s even tiny news - just a cool thing I saw on the way to work, e.g., he’s the person I want to share it with.  He’s the person I go to first with any successes to celebrate or bad news to endure.  I worry that he’s okay on a bad commute or dangerous job.  I hug and kiss and hold hands with him (and if we are having sex I do that with him too).  I travel with him and can talk with him for hours.  Any potential effect on him factors into all my significant decisions.

 

Most of those things/feelings could conceivably also happen with my closest friend (probably excepting kissing on the lips, sex, and sleeping in the same bed naked... although like you I am not typically affectionate with friends and family unless I’m tolerating something they initiated), but  wouldn’t begin to approach the same frequency, regularity, and degree.

[vega57]

7 hours ago, uhtred said:

How would you describe the difference between your feelings for a person you love, from your feelings for your closest friend?

 

For me, if you remove the sexual component, I don't think that there really is a difference.   I

What would be the difference between sex with a FWB or a casual sex partner or a one-night-stand- or an affair partner and sex with someone you love?  

 

 

[Mary Lambert]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 11:08 AM, emcd said:

How do we explain this to the kids and our families? We look like we're totally fine on the outside and we act totally fine. Seriously, everything else about our relationship is wonderful, except for sex. I'd love to be able to say it's not that big of a deal, but it is. My love language is physical touch. My love tank is empty. I feel like an unworthy, incomplete, ugly, mess of human flesh. I'd love to not have to rely on his (someone else's?) touch and affirmation for that, but I'd also love for my husband to want me. I don't know how to navigate any of this.

 

So the questions are: should we stay together? How long do I wait for him to decide if he's ever willing to touch me again? How can I make him more comfortable about it? I would love to hear from some of you mixed couples who ARE figuring out a way to make it work. How do you do it? What are your compromises? Is everyone totally happy? What are your suggestions?

Ok, I could have written this. I have been married for 14 years and just discovered he is ACE. I never understood that shower thing was an ACE thing. I was also a virgin, so no experience to compare. So good to have this site. My advice and I think it is solid advice, get yourself together. You have to act as if you are single in some ways. You get the best of both worlds. I am not saying start a sexual relationship with someone else, I don't think you are ready. Also, kids do not need to know anything. Not their business. Get your sexy on. I mean, get some serious me time. He will understand and if he really is as cool as you say, he will not stand in your way. Workout, change your diet (protein drinks are a must). Spend some money on you, just like you would if you were single. Go out with the girls (find some girls). Your mission is to see that there is life outside your family again. This is not a slap in the face to your husband in anyway, it is a great new life for you. Get ready, life is going to get exciting! And it has nothing to do with sleeping with someone else. Discover make up like you never have. I mean this is the new you. Get as glam as you can. Discover corsets if you have a thick middle, it will make you feel like a goddess. Lighten you hair (it is flirty and will get you noticed). You are not trying to turn on your husband, here, you are trying to show yourself that you have what it takes to turn heads. As soon as your realize how amazing you are your happiness level will rocket. It's a game changer. You will see miracles, trust me. 

[Username_2017]

By definition I am sexual. I am capable of experiencing sexual attraction and can enjoy sex (it's still not the best thing ever though in my opinion). 

 

For me I just can't resonate with a 'sexual' point of view for the most part

 

"Suffer through having sex for my happiness". This is sex we are talking about, something that has legalities around it and that people use to abuse people for their own gain.....

 

I would absolutely be able to have a fantastic day out with my partner and whether sex happened at the end of the day or not this has no bearing on how I feel about that person. This seems very sexual to me. 

 

Boundaries between touch and sex are very clear to me. I touch loads of people friends, hugs and kisses with no expectation on either side.

 

[Xayah]

1 hour ago, Username_2017 said:

By definition I am sexual. I am capable of experiencing sexual attraction and can enjoy sex (it's still not the best thing ever though in my opinion). 

 

For me I just can't resonate with a 'sexual' point of view for the most part

 

"Suffer through having sex for my happiness". This is sex we are talking about, something that has legalities around it and that people use to abuse people for their own gain.....

 

I would absolutely be able to have a fantastic day out with my partner and whether sex happened at the end of the day or not this has no bearing on how I feel about that person. This seems very sexual to me. 

 

Boundaries between touch and sex are very clear to me. I touch loads of people friends, hugs and kisses with no expectation on either side.

 

(I'm graya with a sexual partner.) It sounds like you may be gray-a as well.

I think the issue for most sexual people is that they have hard-wiring to share themselves intimately in a sexual way with the person they love or are attracted to. Therefore, it hurts when the partner does not reciprocate that desire to be intimate in a sexual way. They assume it must be something wrong with themselves, because to them sex is naturally desirable in a close relationship. For a sexual person, sex is usually the ultimate closeness and sharing. It makes them feel great, extremely euphoric, and wanted. Their bodies also react negatively when they don't get sex, making them feel unfulfilled, agitated, "hungry," and depressed (as gray-a, I don't ever get this feeling). They want to satisfy this need with someone they love, rather than by themselves or with a device, because it feels way more meaningful and good that way.

Someone may "suffer through sex" even if they don't really want it, because they love their partner and realize that the need and desire for sex is part of their partners programming, just as cuddles and positive affirmation might be one of their own needs and programming. It's the same as why you might cook dinner for your partner even though you don't enjoy cooking. It's an act of love and giving. This is 100% consensual even though it may not always be 100% comfortable or enjoyable. Though even if someone doesn't like sex much, they sometimes at least get pleasure from seeing their partner so happy afterwards. 

If the sexual partner is forcing sex on their partner, or emotionally manipulating/guilting their partner into having sex, that's a different story. That's an abusive relationship and the victim SHOULD leave the relationship because that's not consensual. But that's not the problem in most cases here. Generally the non-sexual partner FEELS guilty of their own volition because they love their partner but realize they aren't meeting their partners needs and don't know how to without feeling uncomfortable. Not because their partner is trying to make them feel that way. Generally the sexual partner is just confused, like "What's wrong? Am I not attractive?" Communication is key in any relationship and both partners need to be able to vocalize when they are uncomfortable with some aspect of the relationship (ie. too much sex, too little sex, etc). Compromise doesn't mean both partners are 100% satisfied, usually it means you're 25-75% satisfied. But not getting 100% the perfect situation is worth it if you really love them. 

[.........................?]

[deleted]

[Username_2017]

28 minutes ago, Xayah said:

(I'm graya with a sexual partner.) It sounds like you may be gray-a as well

Thanks this posts was helpful. However it would appear that me and half my friends would be grey-a as well. Is it not just a case that 'some' people are more sexual than others and place a higher value on sex than others? Why sexual/grey-a/asexual? I'm sexual, I just can't imagine having love and sex intertwined, that massively complicates things for me what happens when there is no longer any sex due to illness etc? We just fall out of love?

 

[Mary Lambert]

On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 11:55 AM, TryingWife said:

So please tell me that you can actually enjoy the day with your wife in Venice and be glad you did it even if there's no major sex party at the end of the day?  I'm looking for some hope that my feelings may be misguided.

I think we are missing the point here. Yes, hopefully many days can be enjoyed together without getting it on, however, for the Allo/ACE couple there is a sadness that follows everywhere. Its not just that one person wasn't into that night or was too tired, that's understandable, it's the rejection of love and attraction. Why not go with a group of buddies, then? At least you won't be rejected. No expectation. Plus if I go with a group of friends I can at least flirt. 

[Xayah]

19 minutes ago, Username_2017 said:

Thanks this posts was helpful. However it would appear that me and half my friends would be grey-a as well. Is it not just a case that 'some' people are more sexual than others and place a higher value on sex than others? Why sexual/grey-a/asexual? I'm sexual, I just can't imagine having love and sex intertwined, that massively complicates things for me what happens when there is no longer any sex due to illness etc? We just fall out of love?

 

I'm not 100% certain as I just found out about all this, and I probably shouldn't be speaking for a sexual who could answer you better, but there are many variations and spectrums of sexuality from romantic to aromantic, demi sexual, asexual, and sexual. I need more time to understand all the variances myself. Sexual people can have different libidos, as you say. Some people can be hyper-sexual. From what I understand, gray-a's are sexual to some degree but they don't need sex like sexuals do. They may not want or need it very often either. Sexuals experience negative physical symptoms and depression if they don't get sex. (At least, that's what I understand so far.) And sexuals can differentiate between love and sex. My partner would stay with me even if we never had sex again. Our relationship would still be strong, because he loves me, but it wouldn't be as fulfilling for him, and he might even develop a complex in wondering why we can't have a typical relationship like everyone else *appears* to have. Over time, the absence of sex can become a problem for sexuals because they're still aroused by their partner, but can't satisfy their urges (especially in an intimate way, which is important for romantic sexuals). They could relieve themselves, but that might feel awkward and weird for them when their lover is right there. They end up feeling like they are missing out on an important part of their relationship (even if it's not absolutely crucial). It's like not being able to ever eat cake again, assuming you really like cake. You'll survive and still have good days, but you'll be jealous of people who still get to have cake, and you'll miss all the times you had such great cake.  

[uhtred]

6 hours ago, vega57 said:

What would be the difference between sex with a FWB or a casual sex partner or a one-night-stand- or an affair partner and sex with someone you love?  

 

 

I don't personally have any interest in casual sex - don't really object, but just not really very appealing. I suppose if I did have casual sex it would mean that the person was more of an acquaintance than a friend - someone I didn't feel a great deal of attachment to. I could possibly see it as being fun, but I don't think it would work for me.  I couldn't have a FWB.  If I started having sex with a close friend, it would feel like love. 

[uhtred]

1 hour ago, Xayah said:

I'm not 100% certain as I just found out about all this, and I probably shouldn't be speaking for a sexual who could answer you better, but there are many variations and spectrums of sexuality from romantic to aromantic, demi sexual, asexual, and sexual. I need more time to understand all the variances myself. Sexual people can have different libidos, as you say. Some people can be hyper-sexual. From what I understand, gray-a's are sexual to some degree but they don't need sex like sexuals do. They may not want or need it very often either. Sexuals experience negative physical symptoms and depression if they don't get sex. (At least, that's what I understand so far.) And sexuals can differentiate between love and sex. My partner would stay with me even if we never had sex again. Our relationship would still be strong, because he loves me, but it wouldn't be as fulfilling for him, and he might even develop a complex in wondering why we can't have a typical relationship like everyone else *appears* to have. Over time, the absence of sex can become a problem for sexuals because they're still aroused by their partner, but can't satisfy their urges (especially in an intimate way, which is important for romantic sexuals). They could relieve themselves, but that might feel awkward and weird for them when their lover is right there. They end up feeling like they are missing out on an important part of their relationship (even if it's not absolutely crucial). It's like not being able to ever eat cake again, assuming you really like cake. You'll survive and still have good days, but you'll be jealous of people who still get to have cake, and you'll miss all the times you had such great cake.  

Very well described, at least for me. 

[NapoliGirl]

On 4/6/2018 at 2:08 PM, emcd said:

 

How do we explain this to the kids and our families? We look like we're totally fine on the outside and we act totally fine. Seriously, everything else about our relationship is wonderful, except for sex. I'd love to be able to say it's not that big of a deal, but it is. My love language is physical touch. My love tank is empty. I feel like an unworthy, incomplete, ugly, mess of human flesh. I'd love to not have to rely on his (someone else's?) touch and affirmation for that, but I'd also love for my husband to want me. I don't know how to navigate any of this.

 

So the questions are: should we stay together? How long do I wait for him to decide if he's ever willing to touch me again? How can I make him more comfortable about it? I would love to hear from some of you mixed couples who ARE figuring out a way to make it work. How do you do it? What are your compromises? Is everyone totally happy? What are your suggestions?

Your story is pretty much my story.  I too struggle with the fact that everything else is wonderful and sex shouldn't be a big deal, etc.... wanting for my husband to want me.....

 

After 25 years of burying, redirecting me energies, making excuses, and rationalizing that it's just sex and be happy that everything else is just "perfect", it finally caught up with me physically.  Lost 20 lbs in a very short time, sleeping 12 hours a day, looking like hell, feeling like I wanted to die.  Bad stuff.  So if it's just sex, then why all this?  Huge wake-up call for me.  It's all about wanting him to want me.   Two years later here I am.  We have been in couples counseling which has really been effective as opening up the lines of communication and accepting his sexual orientation.  Two years since my wake up call, we have had maybe 3 occasions of partnered sex; for me it's a hollow victory and purely mechanical, and I see for him it is almost an act  of trying to hold on to me and this life we have.  In fact, ironically, I don't want him anymore physically and have told him so (as empathetically as I could express it).  Right now it's "working" as it always has, a bit better now that we can actually talk about it.  In my mind I am staying with him for the time being.  In my mind, though, I have realized that at some point I have to walk away, as in my heart of hearts I truly don't want to continue this relationship ad infinitum.  I am reaching the point of maximum exhaustion of compromising on what I really need.  What keeps me going is my youngest child, who will be off to college in 3 years.  So in my mind's plan I have decided to make it "work" until then, and use this time to repair my self-esteem, to regain my sense of independence,, to appreciate all the blessings of this marriage but really come to terms with the reality of it, to fully embrace the notion of me needing so much more, and to get myself where I really need to be to let it go and move forward.  I am not there yet, but I know I will be.  These are the stages I have been through, if that helps you at all.  I wish you well as you navigate your road ahead.  You may find what works for you today doesn't work for you tomorrow.  And that's fine.  Nothing about this is fixed in stone.  In the end, be true to yourself, honor yourself as worthy, and do what your heart tells you along the bumpy roads ahead.

[roland.o]

15 hours ago, Username_2017 said:

Why sexual/grey-a/asexual? I'm sexual, I just can't imagine having love and sex intertwined, that massively complicates things for me

Of course you are free to choose your own labels. As long as you are comfortable with identifying as sexual, you do that.

 

If you ever get to the point where those complications make you feel separate from "regular" or "fully" sexual people, greysexual or grey-a may be a way to express that.

[Mary Lambert]

5 hours ago, NapoliGirl said:

I am reaching the point of maximum exhaustion of compromising on what I really need.  What keeps me going is my youngest child, who will be off to college in 3 years.  So in my mind's plan I have decided to make it "work" until then, and use this time to repair my self-esteem, to regain my sense of independence,, to appreciate all the blessings of this marriage but really come to terms with the reality of it, to fully embrace the notion of me needing so much more, and to get myself where I really need to be to let it go and move forward.  I am not there yet, but I know I will be.  These are the stages I have been through, if that helps you at all.  I wish you well as you navigate your road ahead.  You may find what works for you today doesn't work for you tomorrow.  And that's fine.  Nothing about this is fixed in stone.  In the end, be true to yourself, honor yourself as worthy, and do what your heart tells you along the bumpy roads ahead.

Yeah, girl, I get you. I mean, I know you love your significant other but when you said you are not wanting him anymore, that rings so true. After wanting him for 14 years, then realizing something was so wrong, I just fell out of physical attraction with him. It is really hard to get back. I never dreamed I would want anyone or anything else, but I still love him, but I do not feel guilt about wanting someone else in that way.  

[Icebearpanda]

1.Well, lots of talking, lots of listening, lots of work on myself to tear down the societal expectations we get ingrained in us of how relationships are "supposed" to be. They pop up in the oddest places, let me tell you.

2. That I can engage in sex with someone else if I feel the need to, with talking about what I need,  what my partner needs and how to do so respectfully to all parties (and it can be done as I know people who have similar relationship styles) . Honestly, it's been over a year now and I feel fine not exploring that option right now. 

3. Yeah. I'm happy and so is she.

4. I admit to not reading all the above replies (tho you have gotten some great advice), but mine is actively work to challenge the assumptions and expectations that society, our social networks and we put on ourselves and our relationships. Figure out what works for you. 

[MrDane]

How do we make it work? Remove the sexy from the equation. Schedule an expected massage. Accept that it is mostly for my sake. Create the ongoing, ever-present awareness that it is okay to both decline and postpone. Remember to appreciate what I have/get. Focus on the fact, that though quite different, we love each other. Say it loud, that there is nothing wrong with her for not needing it. Allow myself to point to our agreement before I get frustrated and lonely. When the agreement is forgotten/broken, then take it and find out if a new plan needs to be made. 

(Figth on)

[Fern1953]

I too know how this feels.  My husband and I have been married for over 30 years.  When we were dating and first together sexually, it was very tender and loving.  Neither of us were virgins when we got married, and had great sex together before we said our vows-it was passionate, sweet, and loving.  Our first child came along after two years of marriage.  Our second, not until 6 years later.  We’ve had our ups and downs throughout our marriage as everybody does.

 

Sex became less and less frequent, to the point of the last 10-15 years it’s been nonexistent.  He was building his own business, I worked to support our family, so he could concentrate on his career and growing business enterprise.   Three years ago, we had some marriage challenges, sought counseling and he never brought up his asexuality at all during our sessions.  Instead he told our clergymen at our church that he is asexual, and a bishop called me into his office and told me.  I was devastated, and humiliated.  Why couldn’t he have just told me himself?  How could I not have known?   We are now both in our 60’s.  We’ve built a life together, our kids are raised and have families of their own.  I am now dependent on him financially-and have earned that!  For 20 years I worked to support his dream business!

 

I feel so betrayed on the deepest level possible.  I no longer desire sex at all either-not because I don’t love him or have any sexual feelings of my own, but because I feel so very betrayed.  He claims ‘he didn’t know’.  But I feel like ‘how could he NOT have known’ he had no sexual feelings at all?  That’s not something that is just easily overlooked, of course he knew!  To me, he has known something was different all along during our marriage, he couldn’t possibly NOT have known that he wasn’t enjoying sex!  He just didn’t have a name for it.  Being too busy and exhausted from building his business was just his excuse to avoid sexuality.  I do still love him, and now in our 60’s, I do not want a divorce, he says he doesn’t want divorce either.  

 

The lack of physical sexuality at this time of our lives isn’t the issue.  For me, the issue is that he lied to me for 30 years.  Was that sweet sexual intimacy when we were first together, ‘not real’?  This isn’t about the physical urges of sex anymore, it’s about the secretiveness and outright lying about the deepest intimacies between a married couple.  My trust has been shaken to its core.  Were none of those tender, intimate, emotionally sweet moments actually ‘real’ during sexuality our earlier marriage?  There is nothing ‘loving, honoring, or cherishing’ about not revealing a lack of sexual desire when he asked me to marry him or as we vowed to one another during our marriage ceremony.   I’m now in my senior years, and we have built for our retirement together.  I just cannot start over on my own now in my ‘60’s.  I’ve worked too hard to build a life ‘together’.  I supported our family financially while every penny he earned went back into ‘our’ business-but now I find our even that business wasn’t really ‘ours’-it’s been ‘his’ exclusively all along.  My name isn’t on the business ownership.  When the company started and was growing, he said he didn’t want me to have any liability should anything go wrong. I totally trusted him.  It’s not that we don’t feel love for one another, it’s the broken trust.  What I believed to be tender, genuine, loving sexual intimacy between us, wasn’t real? ?  I can’t help but feel “What else is he hiding?”  His asexuality ‘coming out’ has shaken me to my very core.  What’s honest about my marriage and what isn’t? I no longer have any emotional desire for sexuality at all.  Yes, the physical desire is still there, but my trust is completely shattered.  I think the hardest thing is that I don’t trust myself to know what’s ‘real’ and what’s ‘not real’.  If I didn’t catch on to sexual intimacy in 30 years of marriage as not being ‘real’, what else am I naive about.  Not only is this an incredible betrayal of trust, but now I feel so stupid and foolish for now figuring it out sooner. I feel used.  The feel the man I loved and trusted most in the world, used me.

 

[Thor's Axe]

I've been lurking on these forums for awhile (usually when I'm feeling bad about things), but haven't felt compelled to post before.  I found AVEN shortly after my wife came out as asexual, a designation she had just learned about herself.  Since then we have had ups and downs, with compromises that eventually fail, fights, periods where we both avoid the topic altogether because it just hurts so much to talk about, and occasionally, good times.  Our life together otherwise is great though.  We have been married for almost 15 years, have two kids and as a family, we work.  I don't want to lose that, and I don't want to inflict the pain I know ending us would cause, if there's a way to compromise.  For what it's worth, my wife reports to enjoying sex when we have it, but it would also not bother her at all if sex never happened.  It's hard to wrap my head around that at times, but some of the posts on here have helped with that.

 

We are currently in a  particularly dry (for us) spell right now, with sex maybe once every 3-4 months.  This is as bad as it's been since we've been married, and I can feel myself starting to lose it a bit.  I know we are going to have to sit down and talk again soon, but it's hard to find the time.  We both work and participate in a lot of extracurricular activities, and because of that, we're often exhausted when we finally have a few moments alone together.  It's hard to not want to just use that to enjoy each other's company, rather than talk about the hard stuff.

 

Anyway, I'm not looking for advice right now, as I've read many posts laying out what the options are, and I accept that I need to work towards one of the well-established outcomes.  I try to set my expectations in light of what I've learned on these boards (which has been alot!).  Hopefully I can just use this place to work through my own feelings and help move some of these discussions along, in a helpful way, as we go.  We will see!  Thanks for listening.

[roland.o]

Hello @Fern1953, welcome to the AVEN forums. I'm sorry about the situation in which you find yourself. Please have some cake...

 

First of all, you have a right to be upset. This is not something you can just shrug off and accept. It is a serious trust issue between you and your husband. But, as you intend to stay together, you will have to work through this issue and re-build trust, slowly and gradually. If you spend some time reading these forums, you will find many stories of people who are questioning their orientation. Yes, many feel that there's something "different" about them. But many cannot put a name to it. And many feel that "different" implies some kind of "broken", which leads to feeling ashamed and trying to hide the difference, and hoping they are not so different after all if the just act as normal as they can. This might well be the situation in which your husband found himself many years ago. He may have kept up the act, hoping to become "normal", if he just could keep it up long enough. That he needed help from the clergy to come out to you is a sign that he felt too ashamed to admit it to you in person. He is aware that he wasn't honest about his feelings towards you. This might be a starting point for establishing open and painful communication between you. And communication is what you will need to move forward.

 

2 hours ago, Fern1953 said:

What I believed to be tender, genuine, loving sexual intimacy between us, wasn’t real?

It might have been tender, genuine, loving romantic intimacy for him. Or else an act. We don't know. And you probably don't know either. It's something you should ask him. Just keep in mind that for those who never experienced sexual attraction or desire, it is hard to tell the difference between romantic and sexual feelings.

http://wiki.asexuality.org/Attraction

 

I'd rather not push a ton of links for reading to you at this time. It's going to take more than a little while for you to re-adjust your life to the new-found truth. If you continue to hang around here in the AVEN forums, I'm sure you will find relatable stories and people that can give you advice when you seek it.

 

All the best to you!

[Fern1953]

Thank you!  Your empathy is much appreciated!

[ryn2]

@Thor's Hammer I know you said you aren’t soliciting input, so I’m not offering any, but I did want to let you know I found your post comforting.  Thanks!

[NapoliGirl]

3 hours ago, Fern1953 said:

I feel so betrayed on the deepest level possible.  I no longer desire sex at all either-not because I don’t love him or have any sexual feelings of my own, but because I feel so very betrayed.  He claims ‘he didn’t know’.  But I feel like ‘how could he NOT have known’ he had no sexual feelings at all?  That’s not something that is just easily overlooked, of course he knew!  To me, he has known something was different all along during our marriage, he couldn’t possibly not have known that he wasn’t enjoying sex!  He just didn’t have a name for it. 

There's the contradiction of the "I don't know".  Pre-marital vs. post-marital, existence of sexual activities, then non-existent; we are talking sexual activities here, activities being the operative word....not  merely just a change in "thinking" only, but a change in the "doing".   That's got to take some deliberate, conscious, cognitive-based brain function, I believe.  Not necessarily with a deliberate intent to hurt, mind you.  But a consciousness of what isn't happening after marriage.

 

19 minutes ago, roland.o said:

But many cannot put a name to it. And many feel that "different" implies some kind of "broken", which leads to feeling ashamed and trying to hide the difference, and hoping they are not so different after all if the just act as normal as they can. This might well be the situation in which your husband found himself many years ago. He may have kept up the act, hoping to become "normal", if he just could keep it up long enough.

@roland.o,  Spot on!! Absolutely, this is the feedback I get from my asexual spouse as well, right down to "keeping up the act, hoping to become normal".  Emphasis on the phrase "kept up the act".  That implicitly denotes some type of deception; perhaps more of a deceiving of self, rather than (again) a deliberate intent to hurt the sexual spouse.  Hence, you can understand how @Fern1953 and I too feel betrayed.  I will say it again....our spouses may not have been setting out to deliberately hurt us!  But in "acting", they did!!

[MrDane]

Sex is important for me. It is not for my wife. What can be hard to grasp, is how the asexual can seem unaware of the sexuals level of feeling about this certain activity.

sometimes I feel like the one who is broken. I am the weak one with an addiction, who needs to have her perform certain things with me in order to feel truly happy, worth something and ...well...in zen.

[uhtred]

19 hours ago, MrDane said:

Sex is important for me. It is not for my wife. What can be hard to grasp, is how the asexual can seem unaware of the sexuals level of feeling about this certain activity.

sometimes I feel like the one who is broken. I am the weak one with an addiction, who needs to have her perform certain things with me in order to feel truly happy, worth something and ...well...in zen.

This is one of the things that makes it so difficult: having your asexual partner say / imply that your desire for sex is selfish / abnormal. That your are a [word for promiscuous woman], "old goat",  etc.  That "all you care about is sex".  That your sexual interests are perverted, etc etc. 

 

Often it isn't even said, but with someone you know deeply, you can tell how they feel. No matter how much you know logically that it is not unusual for people to have sexual interests - the person's who's opinion matters most seems to be saying the opposite.