How do you make it work?

[emcd]

This is so hard to ask. First of all, learning about this label "asexual" has been very relieving for both of us.

 

We have been married almost 18 years. When we met 21 yrs ago, we were both virgins and decided to wait until we were married. Our honeymoon was sexually disappointing. Our first year was sexually disappointing. I had hoped that since I waited, sex would be great, and it wasn't. Then we had kids. Then it turned into an ordeal: it had to be scheduled and involved a shower before and a shower after. Maybe it was OCD? I would bury the inadequacy feelings, and every 6-8 months they'd come up, we'd have a fight, we'd try to schedule sex again, and then it would fade away, and then I would feel like shit again and the cycled would start over. I would say that we had a platonic relationship, he didn't hear me. Recently he read something that said "If you could go the rest of your life without fucking her, you have a platonic relationship" and suddenly it made sense to him and he told me so. So then what? Am I just supposed to accept that? He started seeing a therapist, we started seeing a couple's counselor. He refused to see a sex therapist because he didn't see that changing the fact that he didn't want me. I cried and tried to kick him out. He didn't even want to try to keep us together. Finally somebody told me that asexuality isn't a choice, and that clicked with me. So now I feel like a jerk for making him feel bad, but I also feel so stuck and torn.

 

We have a great relationship otherwise. He's an amazing dad to our 3 kids. We get along well. One daughter talked about having to write about "family jokes" in class and I cried because I don't want to lose that. I don't want to lose our family unit. I want to still sit down to dinner together. I want to go on vacations together. I want to know how his aunts and cousins are. I want to keep singing with him. I don't WANT anyone else. I don't want to lose what we have built. We've got kids who need special handling, and we make a great team for that. We are quirky in a way that we are comfortable and happy with. Every time we do something as a family now, I mourn the possibility of losing it and I don't want to lose it. And, what I really want/need is for him to WANT me, but that's not going to happen and it's not because of me. So, how are we any different than siblings who share a room and coparent kids? This isn't a marriage. 

 

We talked about it: except for once or twice in almost 18 years, sex has not been an unpleasant experience for him. He is not totally repulsed by the idea, but it will always be me suggesting it. It will never be "adventurous." It will probably always be in the evening, after a shower, routine, and awkward. I asked him if he's willing to still try, or if he's accepted that he never wants to have sex again. He doesn't know yet. And, I don't want him to rush into that answer. He knows that is a deciding factor (no pressure at all!) But is that even enough for me? How do I know that for sure? 

 

He says he does love me, and I do believe that. He says that he has had romantic and physical love separated in his mind his whole life. He tells me he would be happy if I was happy: if I found someone who could make me happy, he would be okay with that. What does that even mean? For me, the sex was good when it happened. And I don't have any experience otherwise to tell me it's actually better than this. But I honestly don't want anybody else. And I'm honestly terrified of something like Tinder or other ways of meeting people for romantic purposes. (I'm an extreme extrovert, so I don't mind meeting other people at all, just with the idea and intent of there being a romantic relationship). I'm terrified of having sex with someone else: diseases, I'm not good enough, getting my heart broken, thinking I'm ready when I'm not, getting left (and hopefully never pregnancy, because we got that fixed, but I have serious health conditions where pregnancy is NOT an option.) On the other hand, it could be amazing and I could finally see what I've been missing.

 

How do we explain this to the kids and our families? We look like we're totally fine on the outside and we act totally fine. Seriously, everything else about our relationship is wonderful, except for sex. I'd love to be able to say it's not that big of a deal, but it is. My love language is physical touch. My love tank is empty. I feel like an unworthy, incomplete, ugly, mess of human flesh. I'd love to not have to rely on his (someone else's?) touch and affirmation for that, but I'd also love for my husband to want me. I don't know how to navigate any of this.

 

So the questions are: should we stay together? How long do I wait for him to decide if he's ever willing to touch me again? How can I make him more comfortable about it? I would love to hear from some of you mixed couples who ARE figuring out a way to make it work. How do you do it? What are your compromises? Is everyone totally happy? What are your suggestions?

[roland.o]

Hello and welcome to the AVEN forums, @emcd. Have some cake... It's our customary welcome gift. As I cannot speak out of experience, I'll keep it short. There are plenty of regulars here who will post their first-hand advice, and everyone will tell you that it's tough and a hard choice. Nevertheless, I'll share some thoughts I got while reading your story...

 

33 minutes ago, emcd said:

This isn't a marriage.

A marriage is what you make it. Every relationship is what you make it. You have some ideas of what a marriage is supposed to be like... but are these really your ideas, or is it social conditioning? Ponder that, discuss it with your husband. Find out what ties you together, and where you have a misfit. See what you can make of it.

 

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/andie-nordgren-the-short-instructional-manifesto-for-relationship-anarchy

Especially the last section, "Customize your commitments":

freeing them from norms dictating that [...] some commitments like raising children or moving in together have to be driven by certain kinds of feelings.

 

40 minutes ago, emcd said:

He says that he has had romantic and physical love separated in his mind his whole life.

Maybe it would help you to learn that, too?

 

41 minutes ago, emcd said:

(I'm an extreme extrovert, so I don't mind meeting other people at all, just with the idea and intent of there being a romantic relationship)

Does it have to be a romantic relationship? What you're missing in your marriage isn't romance, right?

 

43 minutes ago, emcd said:

How do we explain this to the kids and our families?

Leave the families in the dark, unless there's someone whose advice you seek. But do not underestimate the kids. They will pick up on everything you do. But they will also have noticed the existing tension between you and your husband. If they ask, be honest. If they don't ask, let them know it will be OK when they do ask.

 

46 minutes ago, emcd said:

should we stay together?

You have the kids to care about, and you're making a great team for that, as you say. Yes, you should "stay together" for that. But you - the both of you together - can redefine what staying together means. What kind of platonic, romantic, sexual intimacy you require and can offer eachother, and what level of exclusivity is expected in which areas, that should be up for discussion. If you'd split and move out, you would have to negotiate how to share the kids anyway, probably with lawyers. Why not negotiate everything else instead, without splitting, and without lawyers?  That's just my .02€

 

I wish you and your family all the best!

[Traveler40]

Welcome emcd,

 

I hear you, feel for you, understand you and am sorry you’re feeling stuck.  Having been there (still am) it’s complicated and personal.  I love all that @roland.o imparts above and agree.  There are many avenues to consider and none of them are easy.  I’ve somewhat documented my journey here on AVEN.  I don’t advocate it as a solution for all, but it was a choice and a path I’m glad I took and experienced.  You can read my journey under this subforum. It’s entitled:  “Sexual Wife/Asexual Husband - Truce!”

 

It appears you’ve got a great handle on what you want, what you need and what you have.  Figuring out how to happily pave the road for your future will take time, compromise and work from both of you.  It seems to me that your husband loves you very much - he appears to simply want you to be happy.  I’m projecting slightly, but I could see my husband saying something similar to what you imparted.  He’s likely not rejecting you, but understands his limits and feels

the unfairness to you. (If I’m reading him correctly based on what you wrote.)

 

Anyhow, have a look around. If you’d like to connect, I’m here.

[anisotrophic]

@emcd wow, so much of this is an echo of my experience...

• learning about ace was a huge relief
• profoundly important to understand "orientation, not a choice"
• cyclic failures over the years, trying to fix it, failing
• feeling unloved, "never good enough", so much pain
• have kids, great marriage, just this

(One difference is that I know what sex could have been. I'd been adventurous enough, before him. I feel adrift. It's been so long. Another difference is that my gender identity has fallen apart. I wonder if these things relate to each other. Was being attractive part of being female?)
 

Anyway, I'm not very far along, but happy to provide another reference to compare to.

 

I have no desire to leave. You sound like you have a lot of reasons to stay, too?

I focus on feeling loved without sex. It's helped to have all sense of "blame" set aside. I can cry about the pain, and let him hold me, and comfort me. (The strangeness of this feels like a confirmation that we've found some new truth.) We can rest in each other's embrace, at the end of the day, and I feel loved. But when I feel sexual feelings, I ask for distance. I know I could initiate sex - but I've stopped now - I'm sick of asymmetry, it hurts. Instead, I take a private break. I'm open about what I'm doing, but private. I have fantasies that are not him. And I can return, and be loved, and not be judged for it, nor is he hurt by it.

He's given permission to seek elsewhere, but I don't feel urgency in that. Fantasies are far easier, right? I think that makes it a good place to be, for now. (And I have checked out a site for finding sex partners. It's safe to look, and it reminds me there's a lot of opportunity out there, if one is interested in men.)

And I work on being who I want to be! I've lost 30 pounds -- for myself, not for him! I rethink my gender, I no longer worry about being "attractive" to anyone at all (but I do strive to look respectable). These parts feel great, and my self esteem is recovering from over a dozen years of pain.

A hard thing for me is feeling like this was an intensely painful thing to have lived through, but I don't get much validation. (It's too private, too hard to understand, perhaps hard to feel sympathy for.) But maybe we can find it here, with each other...

Your experience was terrible, even if it was no one's fault. I hope your self esteem recovers. The way forward is unclear, but I hope you can "make it work" and find more happiness and peace.

[uhtred]

I"m in a very similar situation with the genders reversed, and no children.    I've been married 30 years, and I love my wife, and she loves me - but I am a sexual person and she is near asexual.   Its extremely difficult. Some people may say  that "its just sex" , but to me it feels like I've been cheated out of an important part of my life.  I want love, romance, passion, sex.  To me these are all tied together. I want to explore the  ancient back streets of Venice, have a delicious candlelit dinner, and then head back to the hotel - a 500 year old palace and engage in passionate love making until we fall asleep in each others arms.  Take away the sex and the experience just seems broken.  It seems worse somehow that my wife simply doesn't understand how I feel. To her, we had a wonderful romantic day together.

 

My usual comment is that you can leave, cheat, or live like a monk / nun.  Those choices suck - but they are the choices.  

 

OP, your husband loves you, just as my wife loves me.  Is just that they are not wired to experience sexuality the way that sexual people do. They cannot change, it is part of their nature.  Usually sexual people also cannot change - many cannot feel real love without sex, so they find themselves trapped in a half-love. Unable to leave, but miserable if they stay.    I suspect that the asexuals in these relationships are similarly miserable - feeling constantly pressured for something that they are unable to provide: sexual desire.  It is simply not part of them. 

 

You have my sympathy and understanding.   All I can suggest is that if you decide to stay, you completely accept. Don't live with hope - that just makes it worse. 

 

 

[TryingWife]

On 4/6/2018 at 10:25 PM, uhtred said:

 

[Zoaea]

1 hour ago, TryingWife said:

I think my husband could have written these same words.  And knowing he feels the same way breaks my heart and hurts me deeply because what I take away from it is that spending time with me isn't worth the bother if there's not major sexual event involved.  That the whole day of togetherness is a waste if my crotch doesn't tingle for him. That the day is not actually enjoyed as time with me but as a prelude to some sort of sexual escapade.  I feel like his thought is "why go on vacation together if it's not going to be a screwfest?". Nevermind the practicality that spending a day touring anywhere is going to leave me exhausted and ready to pass out as soon as I hit horizontal, which has nothing to do with sex but just my limitations as a human being.  

 

So please tell me that you can actually enjoy the day with your wife in Venice and be glad you did it even if there's no major sex party at the end of the day?  I'm looking for some hope that my feelings may be misguided.

For the last few years I keep hearing, "if we have more sex our relationship will be fixed". And I'm like, "if you treated me with respect and tenderness, our relationship would be fixed".  Nevermind that when he is tender, respectful, and actively trying to connect emotionally that sex is then easy for me to indulge in. 

 

Anyway, try sex in the morning instead when you wife is exausted on vacation. Before I found asexuality I was trying to fix my self. What I found is info like, women prioritize sleeping, food, sex, for men it's sex, food, sleep. So if you have an asexual wife that's not adverse to sex, I don't see why you would expect her to behave as more sex interested than a sextual female. (As with all survey information it's generalities and there are exceptions). Sextual x sextual couple's have plenty of sex issues so don't blame a spouses asexuality. Ugh, sorry I think I'm ranting. I think it's cause I hate this attitude when I feel it directed at me, I assume my husband married me for more than sexy time. U.U;;

[anisotrophic]

17 hours ago, uhtred said:

I want to explore the  ancient back streets of Venice, have a delicious candlelit dinner, and then head back to the hotel - a 500 year old palace and engage in passionate love making until we fall asleep in each others arms.

I want all this too, but we don't always get what we want! I don't think we imagine we can exchange our lives for fantasies.

(And @Zoaea - the gendered narrative that women don't prioritize sex? FWIW, I hate that stuff, I think it made it a lot harder to figure ourselves out IMHO.  And then my own crisis: "am I not female?" But no. I don't think I'm less female if I prioritize sex.)

I know people who struggle with severe illness and incurable diseases - in themselves, in spouses, ailing parents and children with serious, permanent conditions. And people struggle with unfulfilling careers, with financial stress. Do I feel cheated of something I wanted? Sure. I grieve for this loss, but also remind myself that others have their own pains. And when I grieve, I'm comforted by my husband - who I am *not* trying to get to have sex with me.

I think, hopefully, @uhtred meant to validate our *grief* in the loss of something we yearned for. Not to create any sense that we expect things to be different. As he wrote: "completely accept".

[vega57]

6 hours ago, TryingWife said:

...what I take away from it is that spending time with me isn't worth the bother if there's not major sexual event involved.  That the whole day of togetherness is a waste if my crotch doesn't tingle for him. That the day is not actually enjoyed as time with me but as a prelude to some sort of sexual escapade.  I feel like his thought is "why go on vacation together if it's not going to be a screwfest?". 

(emphasis added)

 

Unfortunately this doesn't happen only in marriage, but WELL BEFORE marriage.  I've heard so many single heterosexual men (especially) who have come on to these forums complaining about how they spent "so much time"  with a woman (over 2 or 3 dates), so much money on a woman, and that she hasn't "put out" yet.  I mean, is THAT their "plan"?  Is that their "bottom line"?  Do they feign sincere interest in order to 'get to the "good" stuff'?  

 

It all seems to be like some kind of strategy.  Like something very calculated.  Very transactional.  If-I-spend-time-with-him/her-then-he/she- should-give-me-sex. Meanwhile, there *we* are...thinking that this day is WONDERFUL, without the thought of sex in our minds.   It won't be made "better" with sex.  It's perfect, just the way it is.  

 

But they don't see it that way...

 

 

[anisotrophic]

@vega57 I haven't been here long, but this subforum seems to be the only place I see that I can find people to talk to about my experiences, coming to terms with having an ace spouse of over 12 years. These experiences are painful, and private, and where else can we find support? I don't think we're trying to be assholes. We're trying to cope. We're grieving. We are in genuine pain.

I get that some people are shitty -- allo or ace! -- but I guess it feels disappointing to see a thread that started as an allo's cry for help and advice on how to move forward (and which bears such eerie resemblance to my own pain)... diverted into what feels like bitch-about-generic-shitty-allo-behavior.

I'm sure you don't mean to paint all allos with the same brush here, but I guess... I'm finding it troubling. I'd like to think a lot of us are trying to be on the same team, striving to find a way that reduces our pain *and* the pain our partners feel. I'd like to think that's what this subforum strives to be.

[emcd]

23 hours ago, uhtred said:

I"m in a very similar situation with the genders reversed, and no children.    I've been married 30 years, and I love my wife, and she loves me - but I am a sexual person and she is near asexual.   Its extremely difficult. Some people may say  that "its just sex" , but to me it feels like I've been cheated out of an important part of my life.  I want love, romance, passion, sex.  To me these are all tied together. I want to explore the  ancient back streets of Venice, have a delicious candlelit dinner, and then head back to the hotel - a 500 year old palace and engage in passionate love making until we fall asleep in each others arms.  Take away the sex and the experience just seems broken.  It seems worse somehow that my wife simply doesn't understand how I feel. To her, we had a wonderful romantic day together.

 

My usual comment is that you can leave, cheat, or live like a monk / nun.  Those choices suck - but they are the choices.  

 

OP, your husband loves you, just as my wife loves me.  Is just that they are not wired to experience sexuality the way that sexual people do. They cannot change, it is part of their nature.  Usually sexual people also cannot change - many cannot feel real love without sex, so they find themselves trapped in a half-love. Unable to leave, but miserable if they stay.    I suspect that the asexuals in these relationships are similarly miserable - feeling constantly pressured for something that they are unable to provide: sexual desire.  It is simply not part of them. 

 

You have my sympathy and understanding.   All I can suggest is that if you decide to stay, you completely accept. Don't live with hope - that just makes it worse. 

 

 

Exactly this. It’s not that I wouldn’t enjoy the wonderful day with my spouse, it’s that sex at the end of it would make it more special than seeing it with my brother.

 

I appreciate your last sentence- “don’t live with hope.” I just feel like there’s this relief that he has a label for the issue and now the problem is solved. Where I feel so lost, worthless, and hurt. I feel like my whole life is changing and he feels relieved. I can’t find the correct metaphor for all this to get him to understand how I feel. He says he cares, but I don’t feel it. When we had sex, I felt amazing about life, about myself, about our relationship...I would feel totally happy for a week or so. Until we didn’t and I would start to feel ugly, unworthy, miserable, self-conscious, and not happy at all. I HATE that my self-worth is tied to this. I am being denied a basic need because his brain is wired differently. I guess I was hoping he would be able to acknowledge the issue and label, and then out of love and respect for me, be able to suck it up and suffer through having sex for my happiness. But the more we talk, the more I don’t feel like that’s going to happen, which breaks my heart even more. It’s like this label is an excuse to not have sex ever again. 

[TryingWife]

Removed

[Traveler40]

1 hour ago, anisotropic said:

I'm sure you don't mean to paint all allos with the same brush here, but I guess... I'm finding it troubling. I'd like to think a lot of us are trying to be on the same team, striving to find a way that reduces our pain *and* the pain our partners feel. I'd like to think that's what this subforum strives to be.

Thank you anisotropic.  I second that feeling, and therefore am selective about what I read, skim or simply skip - just a thought.

 

The sexuals in support of are drying up around here which has been hard to see as this sub forum was so helpful to me this past year.

[uhtred]

11 hours ago, TryingWife said:

I think my husband could have written these same words.  And knowing he feels the same way breaks my heart and hurts me deeply because what I take away from it is that spending time with me isn't worth the bother if there's not major sexual event involved.  That the whole day of togetherness is a waste if my crotch doesn't tingle for him. That the day is not actually enjoyed as time with me but as a prelude to some sort of sexual escapade.  I feel like his thought is "why go on vacation together if it's not going to be a screwfest?". Nevermind the practicality that spending a day touring anywhere is going to leave me exhausted and ready to pass out as soon as I hit horizontal, which has nothing to do with sex but just my limitations as a human being.  

 

So please tell me that you can actually enjoy the day with your wife in Venice and be glad you did it even if there's no major sex party at the end of the day?  I'm looking for some hope that my feelings may be misguided.

This is so difficult because people react so differently so sex.  Its really hard to find a good way to describe it. 

 

Imagine listening to music, but where it was always cut off before the last few notes.  Does that mean that the only important part is the last notes? No - but they are an important part of the whole, and (at least for some music) their lack leaves you feeling like you've missed something important. 

 

Or trying a different example. Take your favorite romantic movie, lets say Titanic.  Change it to two straight male friends.  Does it still work?  All that has changed is that the sexual interest has been removed.  How does Romeo and Juliette work with two straight women who have no sexual attraction?  

 

If you say that these have "romance" just not sex,  that works for some people, but not others.  There are many people who cannot separate romance and sex, they are the same thing. 

 

That isn't quite right though, maybe something different:  To me,  sex is the difference between close friendship and romantic love. I can and do enjoy exploring places with friends.  I recently spent a weekend in Las Vegas with a couple of friends.  We took in the sights, had good food. Talked and laughed.  It was fun.  But it wan't love.   

 

If my wife and I were just friends it would be fine.  I would enjoy traveling with her. But we are much more than friends in other ways - there is a mutual expectation of support that goes beyond friendship.  There is physical (but non-sexual) intimacy that goes far beyond friendship.  So a day on vacation with here does not feel like a day with a friend, but rather feels like being rejected by a lover. 

 

As far as your "exhaustion" comment - I do agree, and that is often my wife's reason for not wanting sex.  Because of that we planned a number of trips where we wouldn't be exhausted.  The Venice trip (our anniversary BTY) was a return to a city we had been to several times before, and that we both enjoyed. There was nothing we  *needed* to do - the idea was just a romantic week together.  But she insisted on re-visiting places we had seen before,  and any other random things to do to fill up the time.  She wanted us to be too busy so that there would be an excuse not to have sex.   

 

To someone like me, being rejected for sex feels like a rejection of love.  Imagine a partner who refused to ever say "i love you" or express love in any other way, but who still did things for you.  Wouldn't that feel more like some sort of business arrangement than a marriage?

 

I'm not placing blame. I know that my wife isn't wired to associate sex with love - but I am, as are many people.  I expect that she feels as you do, wondering why something as trivial as sex is so important. 

 

So - and I hate to say it, YOU are deeply hurt because it seems that all he cares about is sex, no matter what he says.  HE is deeply hurt because he feels that you do not love him, no matter what you say.   You are hurting each other and what is more tragic, likely neither of you realizes how much  you are hurting the other. If you didn't love each other you would have left long ago, but your mutual love traps  you in this curse.  As  my wife and I have spent our lives trapped.  No one's fault, but that doesn't make the pain any less real. 

 

 

[uhtred]

7 hours ago, anisotropic said:

I want all this too, but we don't always get what we want! I don't think we imagine we can exchange our lives for fantasies.

(And @Zoaea - the gendered narrative that women don't prioritize sex? FWIW, I hate that stuff, I think it made it a lot harder to figure ourselves out IMHO.  And then my own crisis: "am I not female?" But no. I don't think I'm less female if I prioritize sex.)

I know people who struggle with severe illness and incurable diseases - in themselves, in spouses, ailing parents and children with serious, permanent conditions. And people struggle with unfulfilling careers, with financial stress. Do I feel cheated of something I wanted? Sure. I grieve for this loss, but also remind myself that others have their own pains. And when I grieve, I'm comforted by my husband - who I am *not* trying to get to have sex with me.

I think, hopefully, @uhtred meant to validate our *grief* in the loss of something we yearned for. Not to create any sense that we expect things to be different. As he wrote: "completely accept".

We can't all have our fantasies.  I think though that what feels strange is when it seems that we *can* but something gets in the way.  It seems so easy to fix - but of course it isn't.  Why can ones partner just (accept a lack of sex / have sex).  

 

It feels like a curse.  I have an *almost* perfect life, everything I dreamed of - but for this.   I should be happy and I think that makes it seem even worse.  

 

Whenever Richard Cory went down town,
We people on the pavement looked at him:
He was a gentleman from sole to crown,
Clean favored, and imperially slim.

And he was always quietly arrayed,
And he was always human when he talked;
But still he fluttered pulses when he said,
"Good-morning," and he glittered when he walked.

And he was rich – yes, richer than a king –
And admirably schooled in every grace:
In fine, we thought that he was everything
To make us wish that we were in his place.

So on we worked, and waited for the light,
And went without the meat, and cursed the bread;
And Richard Cory, one calm summer night,
Went home and put a bullet through his head.

 

 

[uhtred]

4 hours ago, vega57 said:

(emphasis added)

 

Unfortunately this doesn't happen only in marriage, but WELL BEFORE marriage.  I've heard so many single heterosexual men (especially) who have come on to these forums complaining about how they spent "so much time"  with a woman (over 2 or 3 dates), so much money on a woman, and that she hasn't "put out" yet.  I mean, is THAT their "plan"?  Is that their "bottom line"?  Do they feign sincere interest in order to 'get to the "good" stuff'?  

 

It all seems to be like some kind of strategy.  Like something very calculated.  Very transactional.  If-I-spend-time-with-him/her-then-he/she- should-give-me-sex. Meanwhile, there *we* are...thinking that this day is WONDERFUL, without the thought of sex in our minds.   It won't be made "better" with sex.  It's perfect, just the way it is.  

 

But they don't see it that way...

 

 

There are some people who see sex as transnational.  I don't, but I know that from the outside its difficult to see the difference. 

[Sally]

1 hour ago, emcd said:

I am being denied a basic need because his brain is wired differently.

No, sex between the two of you doesn't work because your brains are wired differently.  

 

1 hour ago, emcd said:

I guess I was hoping he would be able to acknowledge the issue and label, and then out of love and respect for me, be able to suck it up and suffer through having sex for my happiness. 

He may be hoping for the same thing -- that out of love and respect for him, you'd be able to suck it up and suffer through the lack of sex for his happiness.

 

I'm not trying to be sarcastic.  I'm trying to show you that the sexual is not necessarily the default in the relationship.  

[smittyw]

There are so many first-hand experiences here in this thread, and I doubt I can help much without any to offer myself; but I hope I can add something useful at least.

 

A lot of the time these mixed relationships seem to take on an us vs. them mentality, sexual vs. asexual, and I can understand why. Each party feels that some core aspect of themselves is being ignored or even denied outright by their partner, and that is a very difficult and painful thing to go through. It's important to focus on open communication about whatever aspects (romantic or sexual in nature) are being mismatched, and how it may be possible to remedy them. @emcd It may be very beneficial that you have already started seeing a counselor to help you with this, but I'm sorry to hear that things are not yet "fixed" in the way you hope them to be.

 

If you really enjoyed sex in the past with your husband and want it to continue, it will be crucial to know exactly how he feels about it. Some asexuals are sex-repulsed, but from your description this doesn't seem to be the case; some are indifferent to sex, and others actually do enjoy it as long as they are in a loving relationship and/or the right mindset, as Zoaea mentioned. You say you are afraid he will never want to have sex now that he has this label to describe him, but that is not necessarily true. And if this would make you so unhappy, I agree it would be rather cruel to use the term as an excuse to suddenly cut sex out of your life (considering he is the only person you are comfortable with having this intimacy). Both of your needs matter, but if it is not a need of his to have absolutely no sex whatsoever, then he could be willing to compromise so that you are both happy.

 

I am glad that you still feel fulfilled in the romantic and platonic parts of your relationship, because that is what truly holds a good relationship together. I think it is also worth considering why so much self-worth and idealization is tied into your feelings toward sex, and confronting that with knowledge about the reality of life instead of theoretical/imagined ideals. Your marriage may not be perfect or the same as the fantasies in your head, but I genuinely hope it will get better soon! You deserve to be happy, and feel loved. I wish you and your family well!

[MrDane]

13 hours ago, TryingWife said:

I think my husband could have written these same words.  And knowing he feels the same way breaks my heart and hurts me deeply because what I take away from it is that spending time with me isn't worth the bother if there's not major sexual event involved.  That the whole day of togetherness is a waste if my crotch doesn't tingle for him. That the day is not actually enjoyed as time with me but as a prelude to some sort of sexual escapade.  I feel like his thought is "why go on vacation together if it's not going to be a screwfest?". Nevermind the practicality that spending a day touring anywhere is going to leave me exhausted and ready to pass out as soon as I hit horizontal, which has nothing to do with sex but just my limitations as a human being.  

 

So please tell me that you can actually enjoy the day with your wife in Venice and be glad you did it even if there's no major sex party at the end of the day?  I'm looking for some hope that my feelings may be misguided.

Well, I do understand both you @TryingWife and @uhtred about that day in Venice. I guess they had a nice day. I think the sexual had a nice day. Felt connected, happy and not stressed-out. The asexual did the same. 

Two sexuals would often feel like this would be the opportunity for amazing sex  with an amazing partner after an amazing day together to leave the day as amazing as possible. (Perhaps a day without boring practicalities). I think the sexual forgot the premises about being asexual and vice versa. The idea about giving sex after that amazing day, could be stressful and actually destroy the day while looking at Venice, for the asexual. I think the sexual have to remember that sex is not a natural follow up on the other good stuff. And it should not destroy the day retrospectively as a lot of that day in Venice was amazing, while happening.

 

Personally I love holidays, but I hate the fact that our agreed-upon schedule is always suspended during those days, where I still feel like we had the better opportunity to be sexually together in ways that would be different and give a sense of variety, because the place where different and we didnt have to get up at 6 o’clock and be fresh at 7. I mean, a sense of variety, for both of us, in a way that both of us could/would enjoy. Me: immensely. Her: somewhat!

[Lara Black]

On 06.04.2018 at 9:08 PM, emcd said:

So the questions are: should we stay together? How long do I wait for him to decide if he's ever willing to touch me again? How can I make him more comfortable about it? I would love to hear from some of you mixed couples who ARE figuring out a way to make it work. How do you do it? What are your compromises? Is everyone totally happy? What are your suggestions?

Hello, Emcd.

First of all, I don’t know a single couple who were totally happy. More than that – many people in non-mixed relationships are outright miserable, and having sex every once in a while doesn’t help much. Otherwise there would be far less divorces. I’d say that most couples have their cornerstone problem, about which they cry, “If we didn’t have that, things would be just perfect!” Yours happens to be sex.

I don’t know how much that helps, but here is how we make it work.

My partner doesn’t have sex, but he gives me sexual pleasure. With this he is comfortable enough to initiate things himself – he just knows that he makes me very happy this way and does it every time he wants to “make me a gift”. He is happy to see me satisfied. And he helps me feel attractive because he often compliments me as an aesthetic object – he doesn’t have to want me to know I’m pretty.

Actually, he notices much more about me than men who only look at lips-hips-tits.

So, would I like for my partner to want sex with me? You bet! But its absence doesn’t stop me from being happy in our relationship because I’m physically satisfied, and he is simply amazing as a partner.

[Marty1962]

I'm really sorry to hear your story as it resonates so greatly with me. I'm sure your husband loves you very much but he clearlt feels no sexual attraction and that is always going to be an issue if that's what you need in a relationship.

I am asexual and my ex husband of 16 years was hypersexual. My asexuality made him feel completely unloved and we got divorced, I loved him more than anything but could just not give him what he wanted as it was repellant to me and he translated this as me finding him disgusting which simply wasn't true. I just had no feelings about sexuality.

In the end it could never have worked.

Is there no possibility you could call it a day but remain very close friends? I can't see how this can ever be resolved.

[Marty1962]

Also I have to say that making myself go through with it for his sake didn't work, I felt like I'd been sexually abused and began to resent and hate him. I remember when we went on holiday and he expected sex every day and I just wished he was dead. It isn't fair on either of you.

[roland.o]

14 hours ago, emcd said:

I guess I was hoping he would be able to acknowledge the issue and label, and then out of love and respect for me, be able to suck it up and suffer through having sex for my happiness.

It's most understandable that you were hoping. But you're already coming to the realization that it's not going to happen that way. And if you try to see the situation from the outside, you'll probably agree that it isn't fair to expect him to "suffer through having sex".

 

If he acknowledges your need for partnered sex, the conclusion isn't that he has to actively participate. In search for a compromise, have you discussed the possibility of him using toys on you, or of him holding you while you pleasure yourself? That way, you could share some physical intimacy, without him being under pressure to perform.

[.........................?]

[deleted]

[Xayah]

I'm on the asexual side of a marriage. Firstly, try to keep in mind that our media has convinced everyone that a proper relationship includes the perfect blend of romance, support, and sex between two (usually attractive) (usually hetero) sexuals. This steamy romance obviously culminates in a family, and a beautiful home, and a functional automobile, and great careers, etc. And it's supposed to stay perfect like this forever. There's so much focus by media on the courtship aspect of marriage, not the struggles that come after a couple is married (loss of libido, finding out one person is asexual, etc). Instead, the only relationship problem ever portrayed on TV is cheating between two sexual partners. Its overdone and replayed again and again.

I never felt like an underrepresented minority until I realized I was not exactly sexual. Now I realize why everyone in LGBT is outraged. Because not being represented (ever) makes you feel like a freak. Like you don't belong in society. Like there is something wrong with, and deficient, about you. I immediately assumed something was wrong with me and went to therapy and physio to try and figure out what was wrong with my sex drive when everyone else around me appeared to have perfect sexual relationships. You're on the opposite end, trying to figure out why your relationship is flawed, because the media doesn't represent your particular situation either. And you have no idea how to deal with your situation because you've never been exposed to a relatable marriage story - in person or in media - because people who have the same problem are too afraid and embarrassed to talk about it because they think their problem is one of a kind, because, again, media only portrays sexual relationships.

But obviously your husband does love you and finds you attractive because he's trying to make it work. I have the same issue as your husband. I have to shower and schedule. Not because I find my partner unattractive or appalling, but because I don't feel comfortable with my physical body and bodily fluids, and I don't want to get him dirty and gross. I know it sounds childish, but I find all bodily fluids gross despite numerous attempts to accept them. I just can't get used to it. It's not attrative to me. I like feeling clean. And feeling unclean is a massive romantic turnoff, which frustrates the problem even more. 

You need to accept that he probably has an aversion to bodily fluids (yours and his), but he needs to accept that you have sexual needs. You should work together to find a way that he can pleasure you that's more in his comfort zone. It's not going to be the picture-perfect Hollywood way. Would you be okay if he used devices sometimes? You could buy sex toys and vibrators that you find adventurous and exciting and he can use them to make you feel good. As for the skin contact and touch aspect, would you settle for a massage that wasn't TOO sexual (ie. back and foot massage, maybe calves and thighs, but not anywhere... too adventurous?) If intimate body contact is important, which it probably is, decide on occasional special times each month where you can have body contact as well. 

He's allowing you to find a sexual partner on the side, not because he wants to break up, but because he really loves you and feels extremely guilty for not fulfilling your needs. It's the desperate compromise he's trying to make to keep your relationship together. You asked if he doesn't want to have sex ever again and he hasn't responded yet. If that's the case, he's probably leaning towards yes. For some reason, he's become very adverse to the idea of sex even though he loves you and probably wants to find a fair compromise. Maybe there's too much frequency, or maybe he feels uncomfortable with the language used, or certain actions. But he's petrified to tell you because he knows it will break your heart and make you feel undesirable. You are NOT undesirable. That he tried to make all these sacrifices and compromises to make your relationship work shows how much he loves you. That he's afraid to answer shows that he's desperately trying to find the right wording, or right compromise in hopes that, if he does, you will realize how much he loves you despite being adverse to sex and agree to stay with him. I think that's really romantic. 

I think you need to talk openly with him. Ask him what makes him uncomfortable about sex. Is it the fluids? Is it sexualized language or foreplay? Maybe there's a certain area of his body he doesn't like being touched. Try to cut out or reduce whatever aspect bothers him most.  Then ask what he doesn't mind as much, what he would be willing to do. Does he like any aspect of sex? Maybe he likes feeling the warmth of your body. Then take a step back, and start from square one. Don't pressure him into anything too intimate. First find a way to stimulate your body, together, while keeping intimate contact with him to a minimum. Slowly reintroduce comfortable contact, by reciprocating with a backrub or foot massage that will make him feel good but not uncomfortable. If he grew up hearing that sex is dirty, ask him to read a few books that help people see sex in a positive light. (I had one in mind but cant remember the title off hand - I'll post if I remember.) 

How is it different that sharing a room with siblings? Well I don't kiss my siblings, or share a house with siblings, or a bed, or unconditional constant support. I don't go out of my way to make my siblings dinner despite hating cooking because I want to show how much I love them. I don't want to snuggle with my siblings or go on romantic dates with them. I still love and enjoy romance.

So the questions are: should we stay together? Yes. You sound like an almost perfect couple to me ;P

How long do I wait for him to decide if he's ever willing to touch me again? Try to take it slowly and figure out what bothers him about sex. 

How can I make him more comfortable about it? He may never be completely comfortable with genitals and fluids, but you can have him read a few books to help him see sex in a more positive light. Having him participate and ask questions on this forum would be a good idea too. Peoples success stories can be really encouraging. Both of you will need to make compromises, but its always worth it if you really love each other.

I would love to hear from some of you mixed couples who ARE figuring out a way to make it work. How do you do it? Same as you. Struggling, talking things through, making compromises, trying different ideas, constantly reminding each other that we love each other, going on romantic outings, trying to understand the other person's perspective, going out of our comfort zone on occasion when it's really required. 

Is everyone totally happy? No one is ever totally happy all the time in their relationship. There is always a struggle: too much working and not spending enough time together, money issues, libido issues, differing life goals. 

[emcd]

On 4/8/2018 at 2:51 AM, uhtred said:

I'm not placing blame. I know that my wife isn't wired to associate sex with love - but I am, as are many people.  I expect that she feels as you do, wondering why something as trivial as sex is so important. 

 

So - and I hate to say it, YOU are deeply hurt because it seems that all he cares about is sex, no matter what he says.  HE is deeply hurt because he feels that you do not love him, no matter what you say.   You are hurting each other and what is more tragic, likely neither of you realizes how much  you are hurting the other. If you didn't love each other you would have left long ago, but your mutual love traps  you in this curse.  As  my wife and I have spent our lives trapped.  No one's fault, but that doesn't make the pain any less real. 

ALL OF THIS! I love my cousin, she is my best friend. We could live together and coparent our kids just as my husband and I do. What makes our marriage any different than that of really good friends?

[emcd]

On 4/8/2018 at 2:58 AM, Sally said:

No, sex between the two of you doesn't work because your brains are wired differently.  

Can you please clarify? I didn’t see your response as snarky at all, I appreciate the bluntness. I guess my real question/concern to this is: if we separate (and I don’t want to) and he moves on to someone else, I will always wonder why it DOES work for them and be hurt that he wasn’t willing to figure out how to make it work with me. Does that make sense? I know it’s completely illogical, but I have learned that logic and emotions are two competing entities.

[emcd]

On 4/8/2018 at 4:49 AM, Lara Black said:

My partner doesn’t have sex, but he gives me sexual pleasure. With this he is comfortable enough to initiate things himself – he just knows that he makes me very happy this way and does it every time he wants to “make me a gift”. He is happy to see me satisfied. And he helps me feel attractive because he often compliments me as an aesthetic object – he doesn’t have to want me to know I’m pretty.

Actually, he notices much more about me than men who only look at lips-hips-tits.

So, would I like for my partner to want sex with me? You bet! But its absence doesn’t stop me from being happy in our relationship because I’m physically satisfied, and he is simply amazing as a partner.

Thank you, this makes me so happy for you and is encouraging. This is exactly the kind of thing I want to hear more of! 😍

[emcd]

On 4/8/2018 at 8:28 AM, Marty1962 said:

I'm really sorry to hear your story as it resonates so greatly with me. I'm sure your husband loves you very much but he clearlt feels no sexual attraction and that is always going to be an issue if that's what you need in a relationship.

I am asexual and my ex husband of 16 years was hypersexual. My asexuality made him feel completely unloved and we got divorced, I loved him more than anything but could just not give him what he wanted as it was repellant to me and he translated this as me finding him disgusting which simply wasn't true. I just had no feelings about sexuality.

In the end it could never have worked.

Is there no possibility you could call it a day but remain very close friends? I can't see how this can ever be resolved.

Thank you for this honesty. I am not ready to quit the fight yet, but I do appreciate your honesty. And If we do end up calling it a day, after I deal with all of my hurt, I think we’ll be close friends. We have to for the sake of 3 kids.

 

[emcd]

16 hours ago, GIMMESOMEONIONS said:

I can relate heavily to you from the opposite side. Here's a quote from my own post before we found a solution:

"I feel like there is so much pressure to satisfy this need and I don't want that responsibility. I don't weigh either of our needs more: his need for sex is just as valid as my need to not have it in my mind. But I feel like there is no middle ground in this. I can't have sex without severely hurting my mental health and he can't not have sex and feel satisfied. My question is this: How do we find a compromise? I can't keep up with the amount of sex he needs for the rest of my life and I don't want him to become unhappy. We care about each other so much and this is such a small part of our lives that it seems silly. We laugh all day long and hold each other and go out to hike, but I can't help feeling drained trying to continuously give him this one thing. It's terrifying to think about having to do it forever."

 

I hope you can find the similarities and how both sides feel. Now, I'm going to be really real with you, if you want to stay together, your partner is going to have to do some giving. Discussion with your partner will help you figure out how to accomplish this.

 

In order to keep the relationship between a sexual and an asexual:

1. There has to be the mutual desire to stay together.

2. Figure out what can be changed.

3. Mutual sacrifice.

 

I am more strongly motivated to keep my relationship by giving my partner that last bit of fulfilling happiness and satisfaction through sex than I am strongly motivated to avoid sex because of my own aversion to it. Likewise, he has done something similar which maybe you can attempt to do if it applies to your situation:

"Part of the thing that caused me so much anxiety was that nothing was changing. From there we had to figure out what exactly it was that could be changed. The realization/solution was for him to stop asking for sex as often. Before, he asked many, many times a day (even if we had gone a few rounds already), and each time I said “no” I felt awful for it. Each time I had to say no it was a reminder visually and audibly that I was disappointing him and it felt like he was giving more than I was. The number of times I had to say no to sex was what was causing me to be unhappy with myself. We agreed that asking only once a day (or twice if he really felt it) would help. It felt like 1 “no” was “no big deal” (very obviously my partner would be giving something up and that is huge to me, but I no longer felt bad to make sure my health was okay first - my health felt valid and addressed when “no” was taken as a final answer for the specified time). Since then, almost every time he asks I have been able to say yes! He has also learned to read situations or my stress levels (college is hard haha) and know when NOT asking would really help me! There have been times where I know he wants to but won’t mention it for 2 or 3 days because he understands in entirety what environmental factors may play in my stress and what happens in my head when I have to deny him if I’m already bummed. Without the constant questions and feeling like I don’t have time to recover, I’ve even been able to surprise him and offer it first many times! He seems to enjoy the new situation because now we both have the energy and ability to enjoy it all to the fullest."

Me and my current partner were both determined to work through it, and because my partner was so patient, I can now have sex without going into panic attacks because of my desire not to have it. It is possible as an asexual person to have sex for external reasons despite wanting nothing to do with it from an internal standpoint. Remind your partner that your needs are just as valid as his. There is a stigma surrounding sex - that you are terrible for leaving because you aren't receiving sex, but you're also terrible for asking for it from someone who doesn't want to. It's a lose-lose situation and I believe it has to stop if sexuals and asexuals are going to continue to love each other. There has to be a compromise or it won't work. Those are the two options.

 

For us, our answers were:

1. We both desired to continue being together.

2. What needed to be changed was the number of times I was asked to have sex so that I wasn't feeling overwhelmed by something I was already struggling to do.

3. He didn't ask as often and we had sex less often, and I continued to give sex and even initiated it.

 

I hope you figure out what your partners decision is, so you know what your plan of action is.

This is wonderful advice, thank you! 

 

He asked you several times a day?! I would be okay with twice a month.😊 And now there’s this big stigma over it all: the pressure is nuts and that’s my fault. I’m trying to figure out how to back off without making it seem like I’m okay with celibacy.