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Shirtless male


Mia R

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I’m in high school and my brother is two years older than me. I have this thing about nudity. Like, I can handle knowing that people do things I their own and I respect their choice to dress the way they want so I don’t say anything about revealing clothing. However I’d like to consider my home my safe place and my brother will constantly walk around with his belt undone and no shirt on. I don’t know if it’s an ace thing. I definitely don’t feel a sexual connotation, however I feel it coincides with my aversion to touch which I would consider an ace thing. I can’t be in the same room as him and I get so mad because I can’t ever feel comfortable, not even at home, but my parents think I’m being dramatic. And no one knows I’m ace. Does anyone else feel the same way? How should I feel comfortable in my home when he’s constantly doing this?

 

thank you.

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NickyTannock

I don't experience this problem as an Asexual, but I know that other Asexuals are sometimes sex-averse.
Do you think you might be sex-averse in addition to being an Asexual?

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I too have this issue. For me personally I believe it stems from a discomfort from sex. All I can recommend is talking to your brother and explaining that it makes you uncomfortable. Also, would it be safe for you to come out? How open is you family? If so and you feel comfortable coming out, maybe you could do so and in doing so explain about asexuality and that it makes you uncomfortable.

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My dad and my brother did do that for a good portion of my life growing up which is probably why shirtless guys at this point are really not so shocking to me. In the recent days my brother has since moved out and my dad doesn't do that anymore as far as I know. Or at least I don't ever see it anymore.

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banana monkey

which part makes you feel uncomfortable. The shirtless part, what happens when you go to the beach out of interest? Shirtless guys have never bothered me because its normal on the beach so I have never associated with sex. I am not sure how I feel about belt undone part though depends what you mean by that. ie. if the trousers were done up by buttons I dont know if I would have issue, although when my ex used to adjust his belt and tuck shirt in public it used to make me uncomfortable but I think thats because everyone knows you do that sort of thing in private. 

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I'm not even asexual but I take a lot of issue with guys walking around shirtless (outside of a private relationship or very close friendship where you're both okay with it of course). Anyway, how would your parents (and your brother) react if YOU started wandering around the house shirtless? They'd all freak out. Your brother would flip his lid and probably run out screaming if your mother started walking around with her breasts out and her pants undone.. yet they expect you to be totally fine with him doing exactly the same thing. I find this double standard in Western society extremely sexist. It should either be just as acceptable for a woman to walk around topless, or a guy should have to cover himself up in the same way a woman does. If your family would just change their perspective and think about how they'd feel (extremely uncomfortable) if you or your mother started walking around topless, then maybe they'd be able to empathize a little with how you feel about your brother walking around like that.

 

*grumble grumble*

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NickyTannock

@FictoVore.

Okay, I admit I couldn't care less about seeing a woman's breasts, even a family member's.
In fact, I've seen my sister's breasts before.

But what's the argument for hiding them?

That it makes people uncomfortable?
It won't make people uncomfortable if they're used to it.

That it will drive men wild?
That's the same reason given for forcing women to cover up completely.

That it exposes children to sex?
Babies see breasts all the time, and I doubt a toddler would care.

I just don't get it.
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33 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

@FictoVore.

Okay, I admit I couldn't care less about seeing a woman's breasts, even a family member's.
In fact, I've seen my sister's breasts before.

But what's the argument for hiding them?

That it makes people uncomfortable?
It won't make people uncomfortable if they're used to it.

That it will drive men wild?
That's the same reason given for forcing women to cover up completely.

That it exposes children to sex?
Babies see breasts all the time, and I doubt a toddler would care.

I just don't get it.

I don't get it either, but in most places people freak out about a woman's naked chest, yet don't really think twice about a man's naked chest. I know in a lot of places (in NZ, Aus, US and UK anyway) a woman can get arrested for public indecency if she is shirtless, whereas a man can be shirtless in the same place without being arrested. Or for example, I was walking through town a while ago and there were lots of billboards showing shirtless men in their underwear, whereas (here anyway) that would count as porn (therefore 18+ and not allowed on a billboard) if it was women who were shirtless wearing only underwear. 150 years ago, the same was true of other parts of women's bodies. For example, women couldn't show their ankles without legal consequences whereas men could wear shorts and no one cared. What's even weirder is that women's breasts actually have a practical (and very important) function, which is keeping a baby alive. Men's breasts don't actually do anything, they're literally ONLY there for appeal, haha - yet it's the women's breasts that are considered taboo by many people. Eventually society will catch up, but I know here for example (as in many homes in the Western world) if a teen daughter started walking around shirtless with her older brother and father in the house (any male relatives really) the family would in many circumstances end up taking her to a therapist if they couldn't get her to cover her breasts. Whereas if the older brother is walking around shirtless it's considered totally fine and normal and the girl would be considered a drama queen for taking issue with her brother behaving that way. I don't get it either, but it's just how it is for many people in the Western world (and it's even more extreme in many other countries!).

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3 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

I'm not even asexual but...

Pardon me for the interruption, I just wanted to clarify something - make sure I was reading this right

You do not identify as asexual? non-sexual/celibate then?

 

I hope you dont mind me asking

 

just looking back at our previous topic you spoke with such conviction and had rallied the opposition on your side through out all of it. It just took me by surprise when I saw your comment here that you were not ace. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Zatarra said:

Pardon me for the interruption, I just wanted to clarify something - make sure I was reading this right

You do not identify as asexual? non-sexual/celibate then?

 

I hope you dont mind me asking

 

just looking back at our previous topic you spoke with such conviction and had rallied the opposition on your side through out all of it. It just took me by surprise when I saw your comment here that you were not ace. 

 

I was 'functionally asexual' for most of my adult life (well, from when I started having sex and relationships at around 2006 in my late teens) though I'd never heard of the 'asexual' label until 2013 after I'd vowed to remain single if sex was the price I had to pay for love. I also joined AVEN in 2013, and have been completely physically celibate since 2011. Anyway, around 2016 (at about age 27-28) I realized I can enjoy some sexually intimate acts enough to actively choose to have them for pleasure, even if they're currently only done online as my partner (who I met on AVEN, he was also IDing as ace when we met) lives 11, 500 miles away and we haven't had the ability to meet yet. Even though I have stopped identifying as asexual, I'm still not really sexually compatible with the vast majority of the sexual population and am happy with total physical celibacy. I still experience all the same isolation etc as I experienced when I was identifying as ace, it's just that now I don't even have the ace label to fall back on as a reason for why I am physically single and totally sexless, lol. I spoke with such conviction because I still hold all the same opinions as I did when I was identifying as fully ace, and the only things I was actually actively disagreeing with was 1) that the entire asexual community would benefit from poly communes which is a statement made in the opening post and 2) I was disagreeing with the comments about people being too young or not experiencing the same isolation etc as some aces. I wasn't disagreeing though that for poly aces who desire physical contact and a lot of support etc, some kind of commune would be great, nor disagreeing with the idea that even for poly and non-poly aces, a physical ace support network would be great where needed (it's just that as many aces are very introverted a poly commune as outlined in the OP would NOT be beneficial for those aces no matter how isolated or lonely said ace is, though yes some kind of support network could be beneficial to them when in need).

 

Oh also, I've actually been part of the commune discussions since 2013 when I joined AVEN. For over half a year a group of people in chat was actively trying to start a kind of 'ace village' thing where people would rent a group of houses and any ace who wanted could come and live there etc. It feil through because most aces live so far apart from each other and can't uproot their lives and move somewhere else without causing more disruption and uncertainty than they were already facing in their daily lives. I obviously wasn't going to join the village as I am not comfortable being around people and also live in NZ, have kids, don't have a passport, etc etc, but I was still part of the discussions along with my asexual ex partner (another guy who I met on AVEN, who I am still friends with now).

 

Commune stuff aside, I'd say I'm a happily celibate sexual person who falls into the 'grey' area of sexuality where I'm not really sexual enough to fit in (or have relationships with) 99% of the rest of the population, hah. I'm not big on labels though, hence why I just stick with 'happily celibate' for now.

 

Hopefully that helped explain things a bit better, feel free to PM if you have further questions so we don't derail the thread any further (Though my inbox says 99% full so I have no idea when I'll stop receiving messages D: I'm also quite slack at replying sometimes lol). Sorry for the upset in the other thread, pretty sure we were just totally misinterpreting each other's reasons for the comments we were making :cake: 

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butterflydreams
6 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

a woman can get arrested for public indecency if she is shirtless,

It depends. Where I live in the US you can walk around naked as the day you were born and it’s totally fine, as long as you don’t “disrobe in public”. If you walk out of your house or car that way, you’re good to go. It’s happened plenty of times, but most people don’t do it.

 

Also, it comes down to whether or not we consider breasts to be sexual or not. There are definitely conflicting opinions on that. I’m of the opinion that they are. In that case, like other sexual body parts, it’s considered proper to cover them in public. For me personally, I never like walking around topless. To me, my breasts are sexual and I’d cover them just like I cover other sexual parts.

 

On the other hand, other breasts are just breasts. I don’t really get the appeal of them myself, and believe me, I’ve tried. So I guess I wouldn’t be particularly bothered by someone else’s breasts in public. But then, I definitely look down on shirtless guys in public. I don’t think it’s very decent.

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9 hours ago, butterflydreams said:

It depends. Where I live in the US you can walk around naked as the day you were born and it’s totally fine, as long as you don’t “disrobe in public”. If you walk out of your house or car that way, you’re good to go. It’s happened plenty of times, but most people don’t do it.

 

Also, it comes down to whether or not we consider breasts to be sexual or not. There are definitely conflicting opinions on that. I’m of the opinion that they are. In that case, like other sexual body parts, it’s considered proper to cover them in public. For me personally, I never like walking around topless. To me, my breasts are sexual and I’d cover them just like I cover other sexual parts.

 

On the other hand, other breasts are just breasts. I don’t really get the appeal of them myself, and believe me, I’ve tried. So I guess I wouldn’t be particularly bothered by someone else’s breasts in public. But then, I definitely look down on shirtless guys in public. I don’t think it’s very decent.

I personally find it quite upsetting when people (not you personally, more the people who make these rules!) try to say women's breasts are sexual and that's why the should be covered, because the fact is that a man's chest is often just as sexual to a woman and a man's chest is ONLY useful for sexual reasons (stimulating his nipples to give him a stronger orgasm etc) whereas yes, while a woman's tits can be used for the same purpose, their main function is to feed babies which is the most unsexual thing possible and also, the human race wouldn't have survived if it wasn't for breasts having that specific function. People used to say the same thing about women's ankles as well though, they're sexual in a way a man's aren't, so it's indecent for a woman to show them. Same happened for women's legs and thighs at the beach as well.

 

Anyway yes I'm aware that in SOME places people can walk around naked, though completely naked is quite extreme - all movies produced in US, UK, Aus, or NZ legally have to be rated at least an R16 if they show men's or women's genitals... So it would be extremely rare for people to be allowed to wander around with those parts exposed where kids could see - and in the vast majority of Western countries, exposing your genitals where children may see is completely illegal. And men have a hard enough time as it is with sexual harassment cases, let alone the crap they'd deal with if they could walk around with their wangers out.. imagine how many people could accuse a man of flashing their kids even if he was just casually naked outside :o

 

 so anyway yes, while women are allowed their breasts out in public in SOME places in the west, it's extremely rare. My opinion is that either everyone should be allowed their chests out or no one should. I also totally understand why the OP has issues with her brother walking around the house like that, and there's a high chance that if her family is your average Western family, they'd have a completely different opinion if SHE started walking around the house with her tits out. Her brother should have the decency to cover his nakedness around the home if a young female (or anyone) in the house is uncomfortable with it.

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13 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

Hopefully that helped explain things a bit better, feel free to PM if you have further questions so we don't derail the thread any further 

unfortunately that will not be possible. All that is left is my last post on AVEN

 

wish you all the best,

Zatarra

 

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Shirtless guys are practically a norm around where I am, so I'm desensitized, I guess.

 

Quote

It should either be just as acceptable for a woman to walk around topless, or a guy should have to cover himself up in the same way a woman does.

The thing is, these things are unequal, because men will not be ogled and harassed to the point women would be if they tried the same thing.  Chests are not really the target of sexual objectification for men to the same degree they are for women.  I don't see why they are (an asexual person is probably even less likely to understand this), but the fact is that they are.

 

The only reason such a law exists about women doing such a thing is because the law is not willing (or able) to handle all of the cases of sexual harassment claims that would ensue if women went around here topless as much as the men are.  Men simply don't face the same problem, therefore there is no law against them doing the same thing (at least not where I am; it's probably not like this everywhere).

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Just now, Philip027 said:

Shirtless guys are practically a norm around where I am, so I'm desensitized, I guess.

 

The thing is, these things are unequal, because men will not ogled and harassed to the point women would be if they tried the same thing.  Chests are not really the target of sexual objectification for men to the same degree they are for women.

 

The only reason such a law exists about women doing such a thing is because the law is not willing (or able) to handle all of the cases of sexual harassment claims that would ensue if women went around here topless as much as the men are.

That was one of the excuses used in the case of the ankles, but *gasp* women aren't raped just for walking around with their ankles showing these days.. it's only when it's considered taboo that people think you'll get raped for showing it (whether that's ankles, legs, breasts, whatever). You don't see women getting raped left right and center on beaches in Germany (or other places in Europe where topless females are more the 'norm'), because once seeing topless women is as common as seeing topless men, breasts lose that particularly strong allure. Just like the ankles did.

 

 

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I wasn't really talking about rape specifically, though.

 

And unfortunately, I don't think most of our societies today are ready to try to lift that sort of "taboo" and deal with the consequences, even if some places in foreign countries have managed to pull it off.

 

I never even knew about ankles being a potential target of sexual objectification anyway (unlike with chests where it is very, very obvious), so I can't comment about that in particular.

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6 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

... once seeing topless women is as common as seeing topless men, breasts lose that particularly strong allure. ...

I agree. These things are not inherent, they vary depending on the  culture. E.g. The typical ancient Minoan woman’s outfit ...  "consisting of a four-square shawl that, when folded, in the proper way left the breasts exposed and a skirt" (https://womeninantiquity.wordpress.com/2017/04/03/the-life-of-a-minoan-woman-post-puberty/).

 

 

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1 hour ago, Thea2 said:

I agree. These things are not inherent, they vary depending on the  culture. E.g. The typical ancient Minoan woman’s outfit ...  "consisting of a four-square shawl that, when folded, in the proper way left the breasts exposed and a skirt" (https://womeninantiquity.wordpress.com/2017/04/03/the-life-of-a-minoan-woman-post-puberty/).

I love this comment and couldn't agree more!

 

Off topic, but Minoans are my all-time favorite ancient civilization <3 They had flushing toilets (the earliest ever known), hot and cold running water, sophisticated plumbing and sewage systems and even complex hypocaust (underfloor) heating systems that were built in regular homes as well as palaces, these also are the earliest known underfloor heating systems - I don't even have underfloor heating in my home!! And this was over a thousand years BEFORE the Romans came along :o This is like 3,500-4000 years ago!!!

 

Anyway, sorry, off-topic tangent there. I've been obsessed with the Minoans (and their fall) since I was about 10 years old :lol: And yes, Minoan women all wore clothes that exposed their breasts (of all shapes and sizes; in some Minoan art you even see young beautiful women bending down with hanging pendulous breasts, as well as smaller firmer ones - all shapes and sizes were accepted and considered 'normal'!), and the men all had their chests exposed as well. Breasts are only 'taboo' if they're perceived that way by a certain culture (like ours!), but it's the perception that makes them so, not the breasts themselves or male reaction to them as some are suggesting. In cultures where breasts are viewed no differently than bare legs or shoulders, women get no more unwanted attention than in societies where we demand breasts remain covered!

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OP: Personally I am not that comfortable with nudity , so male or female chests are ick to me and I look away generally. Short of discussing it though you can't do much as it's your parents house I assume. You could try looking at a higher level or sideways at him ? I have found ways of kind of avoiding seeing guys chests when I have to be around them. 

 

And I don't think it's an asexual thing, I am not ace and also not a need to get used to it thing ... I live in Florida and guys are topless all the time. Just a personal thing. 

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NickyTannock

The only times I've been topless in public is when I've been at a swimming pool or a beach.
And that's just because a male swimming costume, in general, doesn't cover the chest like a female swimsuit.

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  • 1 year later...

prior to my surgery I was not that crazy going shirtless and rarely did it except at the shore or at a pool. Now after my surgery I was not be caught dead without a top or shirt. After my breast surgery I was in a surgical bra for 6 weeks 24/7 except to shower. Sorta quickly got use to it so really I don't feel comfy without wearing something. But i can certainly relate to what some of you are saying about bras especially in the hot weather

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On 3/30/2018 at 12:46 PM, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

I find this double standard in Western society extremely sexist. It should either be just as acceptable for a woman to walk around topless, or a guy should have to cover himself up in the same way a woman does.

I prefer people with their clothes on but the same time I don't mind if they choose to walk around with half or none. I understand what you are saying about the double standards. How the law is dealing with naked body parts is more important I believe than how others deal with it. And how nudity is being censored differently. Like how women are cover their nipples so their photographs not to be removed from social media. 

As about how other deal with it "if a mother chooses to walk around topless" I think it has to do on how she feels about that. We sometimes feel awkward and make others feel the same. Like in the beach, if a woman chooses to wear a monokini  and she's cool with it, so will others. The same woman can walk around topless in her house l if chooses to do so. She's is the one that has claim that right. 

Unless the law says otherwise. And speaking about the double standards first have in mind that there are places in the world that is forbidden by law for a woman to show her hair. 

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brbdogsonfire
On 3/31/2018 at 4:06 AM, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

I love this comment and couldn't agree more!

 

Off topic, but Minoans are my all-time favorite ancient civilization ❤️ They had flushing toilets (the earliest ever known), hot and cold running water, sophisticated plumbing and sewage systems and even complex hypocaust (underfloor) heating systems that were built in regular homes as well as palaces, these also are the earliest known underfloor heating systems - I don't even have underfloor heating in my home!! And this was over a thousand years BEFORE the Romans came along :o This is like 3,500-4000 years ago!!!

 

Anyway, sorry, off-topic tangent there. I've been obsessed with the Minoans (and their fall) since I was about 10 years old :lol: And yes, Minoan women all wore clothes that exposed their breasts (of all shapes and sizes; in some Minoan art you even see young beautiful women bending down with hanging pendulous breasts, as well as smaller firmer ones - all shapes and sizes were accepted and considered 'normal'!), and the men all had their chests exposed as well. Breasts are only 'taboo' if they're perceived that way by a certain culture (like ours!), but it's the perception that makes them so, not the breasts themselves or male reaction to them as some are suggesting. In cultures where breasts are viewed no differently than bare legs or shoulders, women get no more unwanted attention than in societies where we demand breasts remain covered!

I don't get why people have such a hard time understanding that if we culturally remove the taboo that the situation would improve. You have made solid points that seem to go over people's heads.

 

I do think initially there would be a raise in harassment as people are getting used to the new way, but long term it would probably be better since we'd be freeing women.

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