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New Research Attributing Asexuality to Mental Health Issues and Conservative Sexual Beliefs!


Pramana

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Even the small excerpts show that the study has taken into account the cause-or-effect question, the possible bias of the limited recruitment pool, as well as several times repeating that this might be relevant for some cases and subtypes of asexuality - so they're at least trying to do things right. I don't have access to the original text but it seems like they're trying to make a distinction between asexual behaviour caused by said mental health issues and/or beliefs that in turn causes the individual to identify as asexual, and asexuality as innate sexual orientation. Which is a valid question - as someone who's doing the mental digging to understand myself better and finding that yes, my personality traits are most likely a key reason for how I relate to sex, I see nothing wrong in having more studies that might expand the definitions, reasons, and general knowledge about asexuality. Sometimes the questions asked will not be pleasant to hear or think about, but it's still progress and research. 

 

ETA: tbh, I'd be more worried about the introversion correlation. While I can see the logic behind that hypothesis, their asexual group was recruited exclusively through an internet forum and I have yet to see a big niche online community where introverts aren't more represented (personal assumption based on the fact that pretty much everywhere I've been there's an MBTI thread and contrary to expected MBTI distribution, the I-types almost always prevail). I guess that still falls under the recruitment bias clause but as it's one of the major things they seem to analyse, it stands out.

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9 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

It doesn't. It says people attribute their disinclination to have sex to asexuality, and suggests that disinclination may be because of mental health issues or conservative sexual beliefs not orientation. Do you seriously not see this is different?

See this is the type of semantic logic chopping that people resort to when they've lost an argument. The paper isn't concerned with whether the participants attribute sexual disinterest to asexuality. Rather, the paper assumes that, and then asks whether this sexual disinterest/asexuality is attributable to an intrinsic sexuality or to social factors.

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33 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Firstly, by opening up even the possibility that asexuality may sometimes have 'reasons' in way that maybe heterosexuality and homosexuality don't, it potentially opens up arguments about snowflakes and brokenness.

Yeah, this is something I'm concerned about, and I hope there are many more studies on asexuality that show the diversity of asexual people. Though I'll also add that some people can be perceived to identify as heterosexual or (more often) homosexual for mental health and/or ideological reasons - it's just that so much more research has been done on those subjects that we have a more solid foundation of knowledge to dispel outdated assumptions.

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At the very least, reporting this type of research is capable of revealing the amount of insecurity that exists within the community.

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Furthermore, my inclination would be to argue that even if asexuality is caused by mental health issues in some cases, asexuality itself is still a healthy state regardless.

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Sage Raven Domino
22 hours ago, Pramana said:

Regarding the title, of course it was written to grab people's attention. That's how you're supposed to write news headlines. It's difficult to fit much nuance into a one line summation, hence the importance of reading the substantive content below the headline.

AVEN is not the right place to hone copywriting skills. I'd rather you use more neutral titles.

 

You're already so well-known on AVEN that any thread posted by you will get enough readers anyway, no matter how nondescript its title will be.

 

I'm aware that clickbaity article titles are not uncommon in Western scientific journals, particularly medical ones; I'm not used to this fact, though, as the journals of CIS countries are less monetized, and referees prefer unbiased titles that describe the content of the article as accurately as possible.

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1 hour ago, Pramana said:

See this is the type of semantic logic chopping that people resort to when they've lost an argument. The paper isn't concerned with whether the participants attribute sexual disinterest to asexuality. Rather, the paper assume that, and then asks whether this sexual disinterest/asexuality is attributable to an intrinsic sexuality or to social factors.

But I think that is an important distinction to make, because sexual disinterest isn't necessarily the same as asexuality.

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Hey, you know what would be great? A link to this article so that I can index it. I can't index things without links, and I can't archive things at the end of the year if they haven't been indexed... @Pramana

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I don't know about AVEN's thoughts/feelings/policies/etc. about discussions on topics like this, but this thread hasn't been shut down so that might tell us something. :P

 

Anyway, just speaking for myself, I think it's fine and even worthwhile to have discussions like this, but that doesn't mean things will be accepted without question. So we are questioning things. If you don't want people to get their hackles raised though it's usually better not to trick them or lie to them first. <_<

 

My own feelings/thinking is that it seems obvious that some people could be disinterested in sex for reasons other than orientation. That doesn't invalidate asexuality as an orientation for everyone/anyone. If we define asexuality as an orientation then it seems to make sense to me that people who are disinterested in sex for other reasons aren't asexual by some interpretations/definitions of the word. Taking the sample of one that I know well (myself), I do not have anxieties, past traumas, or other psychological or physical reasons, conservative religious beliefs, etc., for not being interested in sex. I am sure I am not alone in that. I take the researchers at their word and I'm not surprised by their findings. I am wary of broad strokes and over-generalizations, like the thread title.

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6 minutes ago, daveb said:

I don't know about AVEN's thoughts/feelings/policies/etc. about discussions on topics like this, but this thread hasn't been shut down so that might tell us something. :P

It tells you I'm a lazy WW mod that usually only looks at the board once a week because it goes SO SLOW 99% of the time.

 

But otherwise, there's nothing wrong with this thread (yet). It's just a simple clash of ideas from two people that have a different way of looking at things. I don't mind that.

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30 minutes ago, sea-lemon said:

But I think that is an important distinction to make, because sexual disinterest isn't necessarily the same as asexuality.

Here we're into debates about essentialism versus social constructivism. This study recruited participants on the basis of self-identification, and then assessed a number of factors suggesting that some people are likely identifying as asexual because they lack interest in sex for reasons other than an innate orientation, and then they call those subtypes of asexuality because all the participants self-identify as asexual. It's worth keeping in mind that Anthony Bogaert speculates at some length about potential social factors that might cause asexuality in his 2004 paper. So these ideas aren't really new, although this new paper provides some evidentiary support for them.

Anecdotally, I've heard from a number of long-term AVEN members who think that it's relatively common for people to self-identify as asexual because they are experiencing various forms of mental distress that mimic a lack of sexual attraction. For example:

 

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's behind a paywall - but since it's academic, AVEN's educational, and it used AVEN posters as participants, they'd probably let you have a copy. 

 

Shall I PM you the researcher's email?

I assume it's accessible to students and university staff? Most academic articles are depending which sites host the paper. 

 

I'd have to talk with admods about emailing the researchers.

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9 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yep, that's how I have access to it. Just search the library for the title.

 

It's pretty standard for participants etc. to get copies of research on request.

Well, I was asking because there's a few articles that Pramana posted that don't have links, not just this one. I think I link to the research articles anyways because most of the people on AVEN are either college students or younger (so they'd have access to the articles). 

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11 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

You're seriously saying it's likely they've entirely made up their data?

No, I wasn't saying that.  You don't usually put words in others' mouths, Tele; please don't do  it with me.

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3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

In that case I don't understand what point you're making. 

You could have said that to begin with. The point I was making is that researchers are human, as are the editors of peer-reviewed journals, and mistakes due to misunderstanding or mooshing (technical term) of data happen.  

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4 hours ago, FaerieFate said:

Well, I was asking because there's a few articles that Pramana posted that don't have links, not just this one. I think I link to the research articles anyways because most of the people on AVEN are either college students or younger (so they'd have access to the articles). 

Still leaves a good few of us without access. :P

 

But I agree that it would still be worthwhile to have the link posted for anyone who can access it.

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6 minutes ago, daveb said:

Still leaves a good few of us without access. :P

 

But I agree that it would still be worthwhile to have the link posted for anyone who can access it.

Well, for the other two Prama gave links to open access sites. Not trying to exclude anyone so much as I'm trying to properly index the information for later archives so future asexuals can look back at the history of asexuality.

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2 minutes ago, FaerieFate said:

Well, for the other two Prama gave links to open access sites. Not trying to exclude anyone so much as I'm trying to properly index the information for later archives so future asexuals can look back at the history of asexuality.

Understood. :) 

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Janus the Fox

Sounds like stuff most already know, the study seems... biased and rather too small to determine any relation to Mental Health.  There's probably early studies of LGBT groups with similar connections to the mental health, so to that extent, perhaps the research is going slowly in the right direction.

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On 3/26/2018 at 10:56 AM, daveb said:

And what does it mean? It that sounds like they are arguing that asexuality is not an orientation (for some people), but rather some sort of neuroses or something. That doesn't mean it isn't an orientation for other people. Does that mean for some people it's not really asexuality (in other words, would they want sex if they didn't have these other issues)? If so, then maybe those people can be helped and the rest of us can be ourselves and left alone

Yeah I agree maybe some people identify as asexual because of the reasons listed in the article and find the post to be interesting and may hold some truth behind it for some asexuals, but I identify as a sex neutral gray asexual. I'm as extroverted as I think possible. I'm an atheist and don't have any conservative views and don't find myself to be a neurotic person. I'm pretty much the opposite of everything they listed.

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I agree with a lot of what has been said, but I think at the base of all of this, I'm most excited that something about asexuality was posted. Some study was attempted.

 

With all the talk about LGBT rights and activism surrounding that lately, especially in the USA, I once again feel like the red-headed step-child. Can I jump on board? As an Ace? Am I included in the category of LGBT women? Can I be part of a lesbian conference if I'm romantically/aesthetically attracted to them but not sexually?

 

Back on the article, though...as someone whose career has always been research-oriented, finding participants is the hurdle. The hurdle. I've read numerous threads on here about how hard it is to find like-minded individuals - other aces to befriend or more. Imagine how hard it is for a researcher who has little-to-no understanding of the community. They do a search and AVEN comes up. I have to imagine that's what happens. When I need data, and I don't know where to start, I use my Google-fu.

 

The problem with that is...there are often types of people that are more known for online interaction. I don't want want to overgeneralize, I know there are folks on here that blanket the spectrum of personality types. But, introvert vs extrovert, who is more likely to interact on the forums more often? Who finds it easier to converse online, those with or without social anxiety/depression woes? 

 

I guess I would be okay with all the studies that pull people just from AVEN or largely from AVEN as long as they admitted the group bias. You can't say asexuals are more introverted/prone to mental illness unless you can prove that the pool of forum-dwellers you're pulling from is not prone to that as well.

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