Gazette article on Asexuality (as relating to the LGBT community)

[Avian]

Thought the community here might be interested in the following article if they haven't discovered it for themselves already (apologies if already posted elsewhere)...

 

Questionably queer: Asexuality in the LGBT+ community

 

Do straight asexuals have a place in the gay community? As a gay man myself my opinion is that all Aces do, regardless of orientation.

[Gldlynch]

I think straight asexuals definitely deserve a place in the queer community! It's pure hypocrisy and discrimination if people believe otherwise.

 

The queer community is for people who belong in the sexual minority, and asexuals are 100% a sexual minority therefore do rightfully belong in the queer community (:

[Curi]

I think all Aspec people belong in the LGBT community. Being straight shouldnt automatically disqualify you from being accepted. I wish people knew more about Asexuality, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

[Masterman]

I think we deserve our own place within our own community. Until we don't get out of the shadows of others, we won't be recognized.

 

I believe we're as different from the LGTB community as we are from the heterosexual one. We're a third, differentiated, if probably much smaller, orientation.

 

BUT, there is some intersectionality. Some asexuals do feel romantic or aesthetic attraction, but only for the opposite gender, and might identify both inside the asexual and hetero community to a degree. On the other hand, asexuals who feel any kind of attraction for their same sex (or for both), also should have a place in the LGTB community. And I guess asexuals who've never experienced any type of attraction for anyone, only belong in our own community.

 

I think trying to get inside the "queer" umbrella is being done with the best of intentions, but we're just broadening an already bloated concept instead of trying to find our own, and I think that's a big mistake that's due to make us even less recognized than we already are. Also, it imposes the "queer" label on some asexuals who might not feel identified with it at all.

 

I just wish for a better understanding of the idea of asexuality, and if I just go around saying I'm "queer", I'll just help people getting more confused instead of clearing things up. Don't we deserve a space of our own? I don't think we're exactly a sexual minority. Isn't the point that we are asexual, so we're outside the other classifications?

 

These are just my views, for discussion  Please, I don't want anyone to feel attacked, and please reply in accord.

[NickyTannock]

I found this distressing when I read it:

"many believe that sexual attraction is a key component of the human experience. From this point of view, to be asexual is not merely abnormal but inhuman."

 

Because it's a view I've seen expressed almost everywhere, by very different people, and it makes me think that acceptance might be impossible.
More so than for people of other orientations.

 

@Masterman I hadn't considered that. I don't know if that would make acceptance easier or harder to achieve.

[TheLastOfSheila]

1 hour ago, Masterman said:

I think we deserve our own place within our own community. Until we don't get out of the shadows of others, we won't be recognized.

 

I believe we're as different from the LGTB community as we are from the heterosexual one. We're a third, differentiated, if probably much smaller, orientation.

 

BUT, there is some intersectionality. Some asexuals do feel romantic or aesthetic attraction, but only for the opposite gender, and might identify both inside the asexual and hetero community to a degree. On the other hand, asexuals who feel any kind of attraction for their same sex (or for both), also should have a place in the LGTB community. And I guess asexuals who've never experienced any type of attraction for anyone, only belong in our own community.

 

I think trying to get inside the "queer" umbrella is being done with the best of intentions, but we're just broadening an already bloated concept instead of trying to find our own, and I think that's a big mistake that's due to make us even less recognized than we already are. Also, it imposes the "queer" label on some asexuals who might not feel identified with it at all.

 

I just wish for a better understanding of the idea of asexuality, and if I just go around saying I'm "queer", I'll just help people getting more confused instead of clearing things up. Don't we deserve a space of our own? I don't think we're exactly a sexual minority. Isn't the point that we are asexual, so we're outside the other classifications?

 

These are just my views, for discussion  Please, I don't want anyone to feel attacked, and please reply in accord.

Agree 100%.

[Orianaro]

@Masterman Honestly, I totally agree with you. The aspec community is much different, and I feel like it should have its own mini community, but with the ability to overlap into anything else that they see fit. Can still fit in with the LGBTQ+ umbrella, but if you don't feel like you belong there, that's fine too. I've always had a bit of an aversion to GSA communities, because I feel like they would see my goal (getting people used to the idea of just no sexual or romantic or other types of attraction) seems less important to them while they're seeking understanding for just a different type of attraction. It's a different fight but also very similar, and I can see the two working together easier under the same umbrella when there's more understanding for those minority orientations. Some might see the aspec argument as a secondary argument, kind of like going down the list of things to get acceptance for, but there are more bi/pan/gay people than aspec so it lands higher. Also, it seems more urgent to get people to be okay with a different type of marriage as supposed to "don't judge me for not being married at all". It's harder for people to understand the subtle psychological discrimination we get: we don't often get people straight up slandering us, but lack of understanding is an immensely powerful thing, especially when all of society is unknowingly doing that by promoting sexual advertising, romance/sex-based creations that portray happy endings as always having a significant other, and etc. 

[Kai99]

As a straight ace I feel as though I don't deserve to be in the LGBT community. You wanna know why? Because I have straight privilege. If I'm walking around with my ace boyfriend, if I had one, it really doesn't matter if we don't have sex or not. Most people are going to view my relationship like any other. This more so if your a straight ace who compromises with their sexual partner. Despite having little desire for sex, your relationship is still viewed as the norm, and is. Even than, there are plenty of straight aces who like sex enough to participate in it regularly. They really aren't that different from a low libido straight sexual. It doesn't surprise me that some LGBT folks balk at the idea of straight aces in their community. I would only join as an ally. 

[Mermaidy]

11 minutes ago, Kai99 said:

As a straight ace I feel as though I don't deserve to be in the LGBT community. You wanna know why? Because I have straight privilege. If I'm walking around with my ace boyfriend, if I had one, it really doesn't matter if we don't have sex or not. Most people are going to view my relationship like any other. This more so if your a straight ace who compromises with their sexual partner. Despite having little desire for sex, your relationship is still viewed as the norm, and is. Even than, there are plenty of straight aces who like sex enough to participate in it regularly. They really aren't that different from a low libido straight sexual. It doesn't surprise me that some LGBT folks balk at the idea of straight aces in their community. I would only join as an ally. 

A homosexual woman can also have straight privilege if she (for some reason) has a relationship with a man, though. In this case, maybe she wouldn't consider herself a part of the LGBT+ community (this is also a weird, unlikely case in general). Anyway, I understand your point and how you feel. I would have a relationship with any sex or gender, but my asexual spouse is a man. Few people that we know know that we are asexual. To everyone else, we are basically a heterosexual-orientation couple-it's a reasonable and safe assumption.

 

LGBT community "membership" seems like it involves behavior, orientation/state, or both.

[NickyTannock]

@Mermaidy You mean like a woman who experiences heterosexual romantic attraction, but homosexual sexual attraction?
That's an interesting idea, and I can see that causing the same issue of LGBT+ acceptance that we as Asexuals have.
I'm now wondering how common that is, assuming it exists of course.

 

[Kai99]

Quote

A homosexual woman can also have straight privilege if she (for some reason) has a relationship with a man, though. In this case, maybe she wouldn't consider herself a part of the LGBT+ community (this is also a weird, unlikely case in general). Anyway, I understand your point and how you feel. I would have a relationship with any sex or gender, but my asexual spouse is a man. Few people that we know know that we are asexual. To everyone else, we are basically a heterosexual-orientation couple-it's a reasonable and safe assumption.

 

LGBT community "membership" seems like it involves behavior, orientation/state, or both.

Yeah but its more than just first impressions. As a hetero ace, if I get together with an ace man, my relationship will not need to be confronted by my parents, friends, and acquaintances. I wouldn't have to worry about my church finding out about my relationship. I wouldn't have to worry about how the people at work feel about working next to a gay individual. I wouldn't have to worry about how my family will react. I wouldn't have to worry if a pastor will allow my marriage in his church. I wouldn't have to deal with the bad looks if I hold hands with him in public. I've seen the looks of disgust and awkward change in the air when my sister does anything semi-affectionate with her girlfriend in public. Its a completely different ballgame for us and sorry, I don't think lacking sexual attraction is a good reason for us to be a part of the LGBT.

[Masterman]

Just wanted to say that everyone is making REALLY great points. I wish there would be a way to make this into a reality.

 

Sometimes I wish I could be into activism.

[squaggly]

It all comes down to what the person wants to be called. I'm a "straight" ace, and part of me wants to be queer, but part doesn't. It's all down to the person really

[Divide By Zero]

I feel like there is some overlap between the ace community and the LGBT+ community. I think the ace community should be recognized as a community on its own but at the same time recognized as falling under the LGBT+ umbrella. Ditto for the aro community (which seems to be even less known than the ace community).

 

As for myself, since I'm aro I don't consider myself to be straight or gay. To some degree I identify with the LGBT+ community and being queer in that I'm neither straight nor gay and that I'm ace and aro.

 

 

[Yatagarasu]

I don't consider myself a part of the LGBT+, but what about all those transgender aces? Doesn't the T stand for "transgender"? What about bi/pan people in "straight" appearing relationships? Do you have to be 100% homosexual to belong there? That makes no sense whatsoever.

[Guest Deus Ex Infinity]

On 22.3.2018 at 2:12 PM, Curi said:

I think all Aspec people belong in the LGBT community. Being straight shouldnt automatically disqualify you from being accepted. I wish people knew more about Asexuality, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

I totally agree with you.

[Claire1983]

I don't know that "straight" really applies to Aspec people, but I think that depends on how you define "straight".  I agree that anyone on the ace spectrum have a place in the LGBT community.  We have different problems, but we're still at a disadvantage due to our orientation because our views on sex and romance don't line up with the main stream. Admittedly less of a disadvantage, but turning it into a competition of who's more oppressed doesn't help anyone.  The fact that so many people don't hear about this until they're older and spend years thinking that there's something wrong with them is a hardship that can cause significant mental distress for people. I've been in therapy for  a year now trying to deal with anxiety issues that I thought were preventing me from having a "normal" relationship.  I'm fortunate that my therapist was open minded when I told her about asexuality, but so many are not and people can spend years trying to fix things that don't need to be fixed.  Certainly this is not as severe as the struggled faced by other members of the LGBT community, but we still have more in common with that community than the mainstream because our sexuality and the lack of acceptance and understanding can be detrimental to our quality of life.

[NickyTannock]

I don't know if this is related, but I have friends who get annoyed at me when I bring up my Asexuality during conversations about sexual attraction or sexual orientations.
I think they see it as changing the subject, so they treat it like an unwelcome intrusion and an excuse I'm using to talk about myself.
The overall LGBT+ Community seems to have the same perception of Asexuals.

 

[Neutral nerd]

The reason LGBTQ+ exists is to defy the gender binary. Ive seen a lot of people reassuring investigators that there's no such thing as "not ace enough", and that's the way I feel about these terms. There is discrimination against aces, even if it's less visible to non-aces, and lack of acknowledgement is one of the main problems aces face. If asexuality doesn't count as queer enough then it needs some other way to make itself known. 

[Claire1983]

5 hours ago, Neutral nerd said:

There is discrimination against aces, even if it's less visible to non-aces

And that's our problem in a nut shell!

[Ms. Carolynne]

There was a similar conversation recently in another thread. They were questioning whether we belong with the LGBTQ+ community.

 

I would say yes in terms of not fitting the heteronormative, but concede that our struggle is different.

 

To counter the point of how hetero romantic aces appear indistinguishable when in a relationship, I would say asexuality is more about what people don't see, as well as what they assume.

 

Plus, asexuality can still introduce struggles in regards to relationships, as sex is regarded as an important component, and often misconflated with romance.

 

It's also disregarding the broad community we have, that not all aces have sex and date regularly, even among the technically straight ones (as per the subject).

 

People treat you differently if you don't have sex and you don't date, they often think something is wrong with that, and / or assume one is gay. I've been the target of homophobia throughout my life, even though I am technically straight.

 

They merely see that I don't date or have sex. They don't understand my lack of sexual attraction, or that it's rare for me to develop romantic attraction.

 

I find the term "invisible orientation" is pretty accurate overall in describing what the asexual community faces.

[Neutral nerd]

And also, as a biological female who identifies as neutral i don't see any reason that acknowledging us would hurt the lgbtq+ community. We're all seeking a world where other people aren't constantly trying to control what we do with our bodies. Accepting that the labels we take for granted are largely inaccurate will be a huge step towards a less discriminatory way of life. 

[Masterman]

1 hour ago, G1P0 said:

I've been the target of homophobia throughout my life, even though I am technically straight.

 

Exactly. If I'm going to be the victim of a phobia, at least let it be the right one. If we keep trying to get into the LGTB community, people will still assume we're gay instead of trying to understand what we really are.

 

Let's build our own thing, people. For those aces who also identify as gay (and there are many, which goes to show you we're just as normal and diverse as anyone else), there's BOTH communities, since they aren't mutually exclusive. But for the rest of us, there's no need to be parading as "queer", in my view. I know the term is broader, but there's also a clear meaning for MOST people, and we should simply avoid misunderstanding.

 

Yes, the LGTB community is discriminated, and so are we, and that's where our similarities end. But none of us has it "better" or "worse". They're two very different kinds of discrimination, and thus we shouldn't try to mix our defenses.

 

We have two main obstacles to overcome, and they aren't exactly what they are fighting for anymore:

 

1- Visibility: Yes, the LGTB is still trying to get more visibility, but let's be real: our trouble in this regard is so much bigger. Most people literally don't know we exist. The same can't be said for them. Joining their already overpopulated umbrella of terms will only make us even more of an invisible orientation. We need to get out of their shadows and create our own identity.

 

2- Humanity: As MichaelTannock mentioned, this sentence is really scary: "many believe that sexual attraction is a key component of the human experience. From this point of view, to be asexual is not merely abnormal but inhuman."

 

That's quite a struggle, because even when we overcome invisibility by coming out, a lot of people either won't believe we are what we are saying, or will think that we are defective and must be fixed.

 

 

We're not only trying to win over the hetero-normative community. A great part of the LGTB community has also displayed a short understanding of what we are, and shown about the same degree of disdain at times.

 

Thus, we're trying to educate them both. We won't be able to do so by claiming a place in one of them. We need to stand apart and get the same validation they've earned.

[Avian]

I've been reading the responses over the past few days with great interest since initially posting the article. I agree with the asexuals who feel a need to establish a presence all our own, out from under the crowded LGBT rooftop, particularly those who are straight-oriented (or aren't oriented to either sex). I also agree for us gay-identified Aces that we should have a place both inside the gay community (with intent of spreading awareness), as well as outside of it with other asexuals. Thanks for all who are responding!