Am I The Only One Who Thinks Empty Closets Is Acephobic?

[donttalktomexc]

I'm sure a lot of people heard about the LGBT forum 'Empty Closets'

 

I recently made an account there to try to figure out my sexuality a bit better. Instead I was disappointed to find how acephobic the admins there were (at least from what I've seen). One was insistent that romantic orientation and sexual orientation can't differ and I've also seen someone talk about how asexuality is a result of repressed sexual feelings. They then began comparing asexuals to people to mutilated their genitals to repress their sexuality. I felt pretty disgusted to say the least. I also noticed a fair bit of bisexual erasure as well. It seems as if a lot of the users there view asexuality and bisexuality as stepping stones rather than two actual orientations. 

 

Anyway, that's just my opinion based on what I've seen. Thoughts?

[andreas1033]

Never seen the place.

 

Its why i never want to be part of groups. Groups of people tend to become hate groups in effect, and then use being part of a group, to hate together.

 

Lots of things start out as well meaning, but with human failings, they i mean groups of people, tend to resonate towards hating.

 

Its human group think behaviour. Its why i always say, i understand me, and i do not want to belong to some group, where people want to all think the same. Yep, asexuals share similar things, but that does not mean one asexual speaks for another.

[Pramana]

I can say for sure that you're not the only one, as this issue has been raised before on AVEN:
 

 

[A shard of glass]

I've heard similar stories from other members who have used LGBT sites and have come away with negative experiences. As someone who hasn't experienced this first hand, I can't necessarily confirm the stories or the experiences of our community on these sites.

 

However, I can say that I came out publicly to a society at university (swap the word "society" with "club" if you don't get what I mean)... I ended up being the butt of several jokes when I tried to explain my sexual orientation to them... Wasn't a particularly pleasant experience I must say... But at least I'm still alive and uninjured...

 

Either way, it seems that Ace-phobia exists in both the LGBT community and in communities that aren't based on sexuality. This is worrying to say the least since the LGBT community and the general public make up a large proportion of the human population :/

 

-BW

[donttalktomexc]

3 minutes ago, andreas1033 said:

Never seen the place.

 

Its why i never want to be part of groups. Groups of people tend to become hate groups in effect, and then use being part of a group, to hate together.

 

Lots of things start out as well meaning, but with human failings, they i mean groups of people, tend to resonate towards hating.

 

Its human group think behaviour. Its why i always say, i understand me, and i do not want to belong to some group, where people want to all think the same. Yep, asexuals share similar things, but that does not mean one asexual speaks for another.

That's fair enough and I agree, it's better to be an individual before considering to join a group. It's just that the mindset that the admins there promote is really discouraging for young people who don't really lie on one end of the spectrum (or on the spectrum at all). 

[Masterman]

I don't know the site you mention, but I've been shocked to realize that it seems like an important portion of the LGBT community is quite hostile towards asexuality.

 

A real pity. One would think they understand about discrimination and the importance of self-identity. It's almost as if they felt threatened by us for some reason.

 

Of course, this excludes those who define themselves as both LGBT and asexual, and also a lot of really nice and open-minded LGBT allosexuals.

[donttalktomexc]

I also found that one particular admin (Chip) has been making statements about how asexuality is a disorder than needs treatment because it ‘keeps people from living their lives to their fullest.’ I’m just going to debunk that right here.

 

In order to be diagnosed with a mental illness the problem needs to cause you distress. Asexuality itself does not cause people distress. The lack of acceptance causes people distress. An asexual doesn’t need to be treated and they don’t feel like they’re missing out because they don’t want sex. A full life is a life where you do what makes you happy. Just because sex isn’t one of those things doesn’t mean you’re broken. This is coming from someone who hates the stigma against mental illness and actually has a mental disorder as well (OCD). know the difference between a preference and a an actual condition that negatively impacts my life. My disorder debilitates me, the fact that I don’t want a dick in me does not.

[donttalktomexc]

5 minutes ago, Masterman said:

I don't know the site you mention, but I've been shocked to realize that it seems like an important portion of the LGBT community is quite hostile towards asexuality.

 

A real pity. One would think they understand about discrimination and the importance of self-identity. It's almost as if they felt threatened by us for some reason.

 

Of course, this excludes those who define themselves as both LGBT and asexual, and also a lot of really nice and open-minded LGBT allosexuals.

Yeah, it is sad. It’s a tad ironic because I discovered more about my sexual preference on site dedicated to people who don’t experience sexual attraction than on a website for all LGBT folk. AVEN is by far the most supportive site I’ve been on.

[Masterman]

Just now, donttalktomexc said:

 AVEN is by far the most supportive site I’ve been on.

Then I'm glad I joined

 

And well said debunking that disgusting view. Enough with ignorant people trying to make this look like an illness. It's not.

[donttalktomexc]

3 minutes ago, Masterman said:

Then I'm glad I joined

 

And well said debunking that disgusting view. Enough with ignorant people trying to make this look like an illness. It's not.

Exactly. Besides, if it was then surely I would have been diagnosed by now considering that my therapist knows I’m asexual. Again, it’s all about whether or not it causes you distress. Yes there are people with hyposexual disorder but again, their lack of sex drive is causing them disfunction in their day to day lives. There’s a reason why they take asexuality into consideration now.

[Masterman]

Since you mention that, I've heard some unread therapists who don't know about asexuality beforehand don't take it seriously either. How had your experience been in that regard? One of the reasons I fret talking to a therapist is because I don't know if I'll get an informed one. I think I'd be hurt if I talk to an ignorant therapist and they say that what I feel isn't real or should be fixed.

[Yeast]

I've heard about asexuals not being accepted by the LGBT community. My personal experiences suggest it may be due in part to how liberal or conservative the environment is. Mine is very conservative and I have made many LGBT friends who know I'm asexual. People who are not heterosexual come together for mutual protection in hostile environments. In environments where the LGBT community is generally accepted I suspect it is often far more selective in terms of sexual orientation.  

[donttalktomexc]

5 minutes ago, Masterman said:

Since you mention that, I've heard some unread therapists who don't know about asexuality beforehand don't take it seriously either. How had your experience been in that regard? One of the reasons I fret talking to a therapist is because I don't know if I'll get an informed one. I think I'd be hurt if I talk to an ignorant therapist and they say that what I feel isn't real or should be fixed.

Well, I go to therapy because of my OCD so right of the bat I’m not going in with expectations to suddenly have my entire sexuality figured out because that’s simply not what I’m there for. My therapist however was very supportive and assured me that I’ll figure out where I land through experimentation. You can rest assured though because the DSM specifically states that the candidate can’t be diagnosed with hypoactive sexual disorder if they identify as asexual. Best bet is to research and try to find the best one for you. They can’t tell you that what you’re feeling is wrong though. If one does, that’s a huge red flag. If you went to talk about your sexuality specifically, they’d likely work with you towards helping you decipher and accept it.

[donttalktomexc]

7 minutes ago, Yeast said:

I've heard about asexuals not being accepted by the LGBT community. My personal experiences suggest it may be due in part to how liberal or conservative the environment is. Mine is very conservative and I have made many LGBT friends who know I'm asexual. People who are not heterosexual come together for mutual protection in hostile environments. In environments where the LGBT community is generally accepted I suspect it is often far more selective in terms of sexual orientation.  

I dunno, I came out as asexual to my friend who’s a lesbian and she was very supportive. It really depends, I can’t say the entire community doesn’t want us. 

[Masterman]

I'm not going specifically to talk about my sexuality or to help me figure it out, since I've known since my childhood that I'm a repulsed asexual beyond doubt.

 

But I'd like to mention my asexuality as one of the factors that make me feel isolated, because I think it's hard for me to thrive in such a sexualized environment. But yes, if they say asexuality doesn't exist, or some of those uninformed notions, I'm leaving it ASAP.

 

And thanks for sharing your experiences.

[donttalktomexc]

1 minute ago, Masterman said:

I'm not going specifically to talk about my sexuality or to help me figure it out, since I've known since my childhood that I'm a repulsed asexual beyond doubt.

 

But I'd like to mention my asexuality as one of the factors that make me feel isolated, because I think it's hard for me to thrive in such a sexualized environment. But yes, if they say asexuality doesn't exist, or some of those uninformed notions, I'm leaving it ASAP.

Most professionals will acknowledge it, at least from my experience. A lot of people feel isolated because of their sexuality. It doesn’t make it a disorder,

[paperbackreader]

I'm cool with whatever they think I am, damaged, needing repair, an in between state, etc, or voicing opinions on how they think I should be living my life,.. the key thing is my state of being is what it is. I exist in the way I do whether you agree to it or not.

 

The big difference I guess is I have no qualms in telling them that I disagree with them, it's my life, I have free will, and free thought,  I don't regret the choices I make, i have a right to dictate whether I change or stay the same and I'm not hurting or affecting their life apart from interesting discussions, so why are they so hell bent on having to be right all the time and force their opinions and lifestyles on other people? Just disagree with them but respect their right to have a different opinion...?

 

As long as they're not preventing me from voicing my own opinion or shouting OI YOU CANT BE HERE BECAUSE YOUR CONDITION IS MADE UP... Or some other stupid inexcusable abuse of that nature.... Or actual law makers trying to get asexuals cured against their will... Just meh at them and smile and be thankful about who you are! 

[NickyTannock]

I'm almost tempted to join that forum, just to see if it's as bigoted to Asexuals as it seems.
I'm not going to, of course, because that would be stupid.
But I'm lucky in that I haven't had interactions with anyone who knew I was Asexual and thought I was sick or broken because of it.
So I'm kind of curious, in a weird sort of way.

[J. van Deijck]

no, you're not the only one.

 

I've been having an account there for the past two years (not a frequent user, though). I once mentioned there that I refer to myself as 'asexual gay' (due to being a homoromantic asexual), and I received a long response from the admin himself, trying to point out how it's me who is wrong because there's no such thing as a romantic orientation that is separated from sexual orientation and that people who are able to fall in love with this or that gender aren't true aces.

I think there's no point to comment on it, but such kind of "authority" is not going to receive my respect. everyone should feel comfortable with whatever they choose to identify with. 

[J. van Deijck]

22 hours ago, Pramana said:

I can say for sure that you're not the only one, as this issue has been raised before on AVEN:
 

 

Oh,  it's the same guy. he hasn't changed over years it seems

[E Wildflower]

I've had an account on Empty Closets for the past two years or so. For most of my time there, I've had a good experience, but I've only had much to say about gender until recently. A few weeks ago I tried to give someone who was questioning their sexuality some advice (I suggested that they might be on the aromantic spectrum, but not asexual) and was told by the same moderator that a few others have complained about that the split attraction model is not scientifically supported, and more likely to be confusing than helpful. That kinda scared me away for awhile, but I'm inclined to give it another chance, now that I've seen that many of the people here who have anything negative to say about EC are all talking about this one person. It just makes me sad that the one closed-minded person who made me feel unwelcome is in a position of authority on the site.

[NickyTannock]

Is there a procedure on that site for handling grievances with specific moderators if they turn out to be bigoted to one group or another?

[Ms. Carolynne]

13 hours ago, E Wildflower said:

I've had an account on Empty Closets for the past two years or so. For most of my time there, I've had a good experience, but I've only had much to say about gender until recently. A few weeks ago I tried to give someone who was questioning their sexuality some advice (I suggested that they might be on the aromantic spectrum, but not asexual) and was told by the same moderator that a few others have complained about that the split attraction model is not scientifically supported, and more likely to be confusing than helpful. That kinda scared me away for awhile, but I'm inclined to give it another chance, now that I've seen that many of the people here who have anything negative to say about EC are all talking about this one person. It just makes me sad that the one closed-minded person who made me feel unwelcome is in a position of authority on the site.

Really? That seems so stupid as I am someone who falls under that model.

 

It makes perfect sense to me, and knowing that sexual and romantic attraction are distinct and not always linked is useful information for anyone questioning their orientation.

 

Learning the distinction cleared the air for me.

 

I am aware most people don't fit into that model, and it does seem more common for aces and aros to do so (though that is just my own anecdotal experience); I just don't get how "romantic and sexual feelings are separate things" (which the model implies) is such a mind bender.

[NickyTannock]

I admit I haven't had any interaction with the LGBT+ community, despite being an Asexual.
But I'd have thought an LGBT+ site like that one, would have a rule against invalidating someone else's chosen labels, like AVEN.

[donttalktomexc]

On 21/03/2018 at 11:59 AM, G1P0 said:

Really? That seems so stupid as I am someone who falls under that model.

 

It makes perfect sense to me, and knowing that sexual and romantic attraction are distinct and not always linked is useful information for anyone questioning their orientation.

 

Learning the distinction cleared the air for me.

 

I am aware most people don't fit into that model, and it does seem more common for aces and aros to do so (though that is just my own anecdotal experience); I just don't get how "romantic and sexual feelings are separate things" (which the model implies) is such a mind bender.

Yeah, I know. Why is it so hard to believe that you can love someone without wanting sex? 

[Baam]

43 minutes ago, donttalktomexc said:

Yeah, I know. Why is it so hard to believe that you can love someone without wanting sex? 

Their problem is that they don't think that's deserving of a separate sexuality, I think.