little_dragon Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, wonk said: In terms of "stronger" and "relationship problems," I just genuinely don't understand what you meant there. For example, when you say "stronger," do you mean longer lasting? More intimate? Happier? All of them? When you say "relationship problems," do you mean "dissolutions," dissatisfaction generally? I want to look the studies up myself, and I can't do so if I don't know what you mean. I realize now that part wasn't clear, and that's my fault. Firstly, thank-you for your apology and your clarification. When I first saw that you'd responded, my heart leapt out of my chest, I was scared I was going to get yelled at or insulted, an oh-too-common trend on the internet that has stopped me from voicing myself in the past. So thank-you for not being that kind of person and for reinforcing my feeling that this forum is a safe place. And for clarification's sake, "generalizations" made me uncomfortable because, at the time, it felt like a passive-aggressive accusation that I was generalizing, when I was not meaning to do so. So thank-you again for your clarification. The reason I didn't use terms less vague than "stronger" or "problems" is because what defines a strong relationship is different for everyone, and what defines a problem is also different for everyone. I mean, we're writing in a forum filled with people who don't feel the need for sex in a relationship... many people, even psychotherapists would tell you, that absence of sex in a relationship is a sign of problems in that relationship... but the existence of these people, many of whom are happily coupled, engaged, or married, shows that that is not always the case. So, it's hard to further define "stronger" or "problems" without suggesting that one thing or the other is absolutely necessary for a relationship. For me, a strong relationship is one that can't be torn apart by silly things such as unjustified jealousy or self-consciousness/doubt or similar things that aren't real problems, but seem to get between couples all the time anyways. Long-lasting doesn't prove strength, many people are in toxic relationships that last decades; other people lose their relationships, despite their strength, because of external factors outside their control. But a strong relationship doesn't end over something that can be resolved. Link to post Share on other sites
BinaryFission Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I kind of have to disagree with you on this subject. I am with someone that is very allosexual, so it's not all about the "sexy" or whatever all the time. Sometimes it is brought up, but he doesn't push me about it. He knows that I am asexual, and that there are some things that I wouldn't find comfortable doing that probably any allosexual couple will feel it is normal to do. There are other things to talk about other than that anyways.. Link to post Share on other sites
GLRDT Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 On 3/18/2018 at 10:50 AM, Georgetown said: The solution is for people to commit to asexual-only dating No thanks. I'd rather not shut down a whole group of people I don't even know because they're different than me. I'd prefer to meet each person individually, have honest open conversations, and go from there and see what's best for both of us and if we can creatively make things work for our specific circumstance. I enjoy learning from others who are different than myself. I wouldn't only want the people closest to me to all be similar to me. The best way to learn and grow is from people who are different than yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, GLRDT said: No thanks. I'd rather not shut down a whole group of people I don't even know because they're different than me. I'd prefer to meet each person individually, have honest open conversations, and go from there and see what's best for both of us and if we can creatively make things work for our specific circumstance. I enjoy learning from others who are different than myself. I wouldn't only want the people closest to me to all be similar to me. The best way to learn and grow is from people who are different than yourself. I see your point, but there's two people in the relationship, and each's happiness should matter to the other. It's not just about providing one if them with personal growth opportunities. Link to post Share on other sites
GLRDT Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: I see your point, but there's two people in the relationship, and each's happiness should matter to the other. It's not just about providing one if them with personal growth opportunities. Well yeah. I never thought differently than that. I agree with you. That's why I was talking about dating each person individually and together seeing if it's what we both want and if it is then creatively thinking of ways to make it work. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I wasn't trying to say I'd just be making all of the decisions for both of us. That would be weird. There would be honest conversations from both sides and then both people would go from there. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Fair enough, and yes all sorts of differences can be worked out. When one of of them is a complete disengagement with the thing that pretty much defines a relationship fir most part, it gets harder than most. Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said: Fair enough, and yes all sorts of differences can be worked out. When one of of them is a complete disengagement with the thing that pretty much defines a relationship fir most part, it gets harder than most. The presence of sex in a relationship may be how that relationship is differentiated from a relationship that doesn't include sex. However, saying that sex defines a relationship -- in the sense that it is the defining element of that particular relationship -- is a bit much. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 It doesn't define that there is a relationship, but to most people, sex is the difference between friendship and any kind of 'marriage-esque' relationship. I know this is a deeply unpopular idea on AVEN, but it's simply the truth about how the vast majority define relationships. Link to post Share on other sites
BinaryFission Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 7 hours ago, Telecaster68 said: It doesn't define that there is a relationship, but to most people, sex is the difference between friendship and any kind of 'marriage-esque' relationship. I know this is a deeply unpopular idea on AVEN, but it's simply the truth about how the vast majority define relationships. What a shallow world we live in then. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 2 hours ago, BinaryFission said: What a shallow world we live in then. Wanting sex to be part of your life and relationship isn't shallow. You're edging towards elitism here. Link to post Share on other sites
Baam Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 4 hours ago, BinaryFission said: What a shallow world we live in then. I don't see how desiring to share a deeply intimate activity with your loved one is shallow. Link to post Share on other sites
GLRDT Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 8 hours ago, BinaryFission said: What a shallow world we live in then. I wouldn't say shallow, but I would say restricted view point. I don't blame sexual people for this though. I didn't know a relationship could be romantic without sex until I found this website. Society and our culture don't exactly teach us the different options or how relationships can work in various ways. Link to post Share on other sites
ReyGraves Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 24 minutes ago, GLRDT said: I wouldn't say shallow, but I would say restricted view point. I don't blame sexual people for this though. I didn't know a relationship could be romantic without sex until I found this website. Society and our culture don't exactly teach us the different options or how relationships can work in various ways. Along with not being taught by society. I’ve hear that a lot of allosexuals can’t distinguish between romantic and sexual attraction. Thus a relationship without sex, to those people, isn’t romantic either. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Personally, and I think this is a common reaction to the split attraction model is that we understand it intellectually and there's no reason why it can't be how someone experiences relationships, but it's just not how it is for us. Just as when you watch a film, you can, if you want, split off photography, acting script, soundtrack, etc into separate things. You can look at stills, or listen to the soundtrack, or read the script, and they might be wonderful images, or amazing music, or a satisfying read, but they're not the film. They're not the full experience. They don't pull all the parts together so they integrate and enhance each other. And how much can take away before it's no longer a film? A still doesn't move. The soundtrack has no imagery. The script nails the story but it doesn't have visuals or sound or actors performances. The whole is more than the sum of the parts. So in a relationship, how much can you remove before it ceases to be a relationship? Trust? Conversation? Shared values? Time together? Shared humour? Sex? Because AVEN is about sexuality, it gets the focus here, but all those other things would be just as important. Link to post Share on other sites
gaogao Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 On 3/21/2018 at 6:52 AM, Sally said: I really don't think that's true. Although I hadn't heard about asexuality until I was in my late adulthood, I definitely knew that I was not like my teenage friends, because they were talking about things I wasn't interested in (sex). That continued on until I was old enough to realize that whatever happened to them definitely wasn't going to happen to me. (Although I kept trying to make it happen...) I kinda missed this -- but see, from what you said I think you did believe you were like everyone else to a certain extent, because even though you knew you weren't exactly like your teenage friends when you were a teenager (of course we all know that there are differences between people in terms of development and personality because that is what we can see i.e. people grow at different rates, some people are more talkative than others, etc).. but we generally think that we all are the same underneath those differences, and that the "human experience" is more or less universal. The fact that you kept trying to make what was happening to them happen to you tells me that you believed this too - Would you have tried so hard to make interest in sex happen if you already knew you were fundamentally different from the beginning and that you would never, ever be like them? Cos I would say no. I wouldn't have bothered... and I know this because even though I actually didn't try that hard, I just assumed it would happen eventually, and when it didn't, I figured I was either SUPER SUPER LATE or... maybe... they were just more aware about what was cool to say / what was going on with them and I was actually experiencing the same thing, just that I wasn't talking about it the way they were. I remember in my mid-20s actively going through every person I'd ever thought I Maybe Liked (countable on One Hand) and tried to evaluate whether I'd be okay having sex with them or not and being like "Eh? Maybe? I dunno?" Then I found out about asexuality. And that's when it truly clicked that I was different and it was neither of those two things. Link to post Share on other sites
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