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Roanch

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8 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Cheating will distress monogamous people as well as poly people.

Yes I should have clarified that I more meant cheating can hurt any asexual as much as it can hurt any sexual. It doesn't make a difference if they're mono or poly because cheating is still cheating. The main point I was trying to make was just that, for an ace, the upset over their partner having sex with someone else can be a lot more than just concern over losing the relationship!

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2 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

I more meant cheating can hurt any asexual as much as it can hurt any sexual.

That went under the "joyful" yes + monogamy. An ace who'd like their partner to have another relationship for the sex or otherwise will consent and feel happy that their partner is in love and being loved. An ace who consents thinking they must, or they lose their partner is consenting from helplessness. Not joy. An ace who is monogamous but consents to poly will be miserable.

 

But these things too are not written in stone. A lot depends on how the poly partners conduct themselves. A grudging, helpless yes can turn into a joyful yes if the poly partner is a considerate person who makes their ace feel loved and desired, regardless of the other relationship and the other relationship results in decreased sexual stress as well as the poly partner's romantic energy bleeds into the original relationship making it vibrant as well (this is a common side-effect).

 

But it will not feel good while the consenting partner is operating from helplessness. My "fix" to ensure this doesn't happen is to wait and check for comfort all through. Ok, so we have agreed. Great. Do nothing. Discuss. Check out a few people. See how your partner feels, discuss any anxieties. It is also a good time to know how much they'd want to know and how much not. My ace is the sort to want to know everything (within reasonable limits of my comfort and other person's confidentiality) - because he gets a kick from the idea of me being satisfied, even if not by him. Others don't want more than the basics - going where and with whom. But still, nothing has happened so far. It is a good time to see adverse reactions before they result in concrete hurt.

 

Then move forward carefully. Meeting casually, discussing if some potential partner feels suitable. Ensuring your partner feels loved and wanted, not forgotten while you are excited..... all these factors matter. I'd say unless your partner encourages you to go explore what you feel, you ideally don't proceed beyond this.

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1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

An ace who is monogamous but consents to poly will be miserable.

Then you get the weirdos like me who consented to polygamy (not just polyamoury, but actually all living together) even though they don't want it. For about two years of our 5 year long relationship my ex lived with me AND his other girlfriend (who also consented even though she didn't want it). It was.. very uncomfortable. When her and I were getting along it wasn't so bad, but there were times that things would get so strained we'd physically attack each other (actually, she attacked me, I don't recall ever hitting her back now that I think about it) :o He also did the whole cheating thing, repeatedly, sometimes even locking me and his other girlfriend outside while he had a girl inside. Yes I was very young, very naive, had literally NO self esteem, and truly believed I was in love with him. Those are the reasons I put up with that (and worse) and didn't even consider it that bad. So yeah, I know how bad it can be on the 'non joyful' side of it, lol. But yeah on the flip-side I've talked a fair few super poly people in my time here, both ace and non-ace (and even had an ace friend from here in NZ for a while, who I met on AVEN, who lived with her two sexual boyfriends who had sex with each other instead of her, she was super happy!) so I know how good a poly situation can be when you're all consenting to it and happy with it! You're right though it's very important that everyone is happy with the situation (not just consenting, but *joyfully* consenting) or else things can go down hill really fast! 

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Well we’re starting to talk a little bit. Busy house with kids around and a lot to take in but she thinks she could be Demi sexual! 

I think we’re both confused and mixed up but I’ve moved forward more in 24 hours on this site than years of gps, relate and sexual counseling!  Thanks for responses.

lots of little strange signs  ....

I was never allowed to use the word sexy (I guess it doesn’t mean anything to asexuals)

Maslows needs - is sex more important for procreation than for other reasons? 

the question(thank you)  would it bother you if you never had sex ever again

her perceived lack of empathy - you know what sexuals would consider rejection at the end of a nice evening together 

her need to enjoy time with friends and family being a higher priority than time with husband. The way our holidays away always require friends and family to be there with us.  (This was the reason we went to relate in the first place)

her Failure to notice her husband getting really ripped (well losing some wobbly bits) at the gym

her failure to believe that her friend has a genuine phoar feeling when a certain famous footballer takes his shirt off

I cant help think that some of this might be nurtured in an upbringing (although it was still a happy upbringing) where parents sleep separately and don’t kiss / touch etc. 

her annoyance at me / failure to understand me (sex maniac) getting turned on so easily by her appearance / clothes / appearance. 

The looking away thing someone mentioned when doing the deed. 

😅 relieved

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

this would trigger the "flight" instinct in the timidest person.

I was a teenager when I met my 32 year old ex and he was my first boyfriend, and at the time (as he was the first person I'd ever been truly close to) I was doggedly loyal and would have stood by him no matter what. BUT I have moved on since leaving him in 2011. The reason I accept that it was a 'choice' was because I could have moved away with police help at any point but chose to stay (for multiple reasons including mental instability which I have mostly recovered from now). Accepting it was a choice gives me power over the situation, and that power has given me the strength I have needed to heal.

 

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

What freaks me out (and frankly triggers me on the subject of non-consensual sex) is the fact that you are allegedly confident now. Knowledgeable. You know what you want. You no longer believe yourself to be in love with the jerk and you STILL do not see how your choices were influenced by your gullibility and were not in your interest.

 I can bitch and moan and cry about it, and be a victim, and claim the world took advantage of me and damaged and destroyed me when I was helpless and defenseless (which you seem to be saying you'd be more comfortable with) or, I can choose to recover. I have recovered. I found my power, my sense of self-esteem, and I own my past for what it is. I refuse to live in a victim mentality. If that's upsetting for you then you're free to put me on ignore, but I often mention aspects of my past in these conversations where they are relevant. There are things that a lot of people say here (especially in the SPFA section) that I find personally offensive and very frustrating, but I'd never overtly have a go at them personally for making the posts because I understand it's their experience, they're dealing with it (or have dealt with it) and they're free to share whatever they want on discussion forums like this.

 

Again, if you don't like it, or find my lack of victim mentality personally disturbing, you're free to put me on ignore. :)

 

And yeah, the self-punishment was actually because of BPD (which has manifested in many different self-harming behaviors over the decade that I experienced it at its worst) ..it was nice of you to bring it up as a way to have a go at me by claiming I may even enjoy that kind of pain.

 

1 hour ago, Roanch said:

I think we’re both confused and mixed up but I’ve moved forward more in 24 hours on this site than years of gps, relate and sexual counseling!  Thanks for responses.

 

That's great to hear, hopefully you can keep moving forward until you can get to a much more confident place regardless of whether that means living in celibacy, compromising sexually if she is able to get to that point.. or even moving away from each other if it eventually comes to that. I'm glad you're feeling a bit better though :cake: 

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1 hour ago, FictoVore. said:

 ... I can choose to recover. I have recovered. I found my power, my sense of self-esteem, and I own my past for what it is. I refuse to live in a victim mentality...

 “ I can choose to recover”

I agree with that, because that’s what I did too 😊

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On 17/03/2018 at 4:59 PM, anamikanon said:

: On the other hand, pressuring her to identify as asexual or not will be bad process, because:

  • suggesting a solution out of many possible solutions creates a bias and can complicate the problem, if it wrongly gets identified because of the bias.
  • her resistance to being termed as an asexual may make her suspect the whole process as one that puts her in a position of shouldering blame, and she may resist even the more reasonable negotiations such as asking her to state her willingness to negotiate on the sexual front.
  • Even if she were willing to negotiate, if she feels cornered about what she will perceive as an "accusation of being asexual", she may decide not to.

This is counterproductive.

So where do I go now? Not sure if we’re moving on to a new thread. She is definitely on the asexual spectrum but is slower in accepting this than me.  She has asked how much we will need to have sex which says it all really. It’s a chore.  She has herself accepted many similarities with Demi sexuals but then gets angry and says despite this the reason we haven’t had sex for 5 months is purely due to my behavior. I understand this is difficult for her and she doesn’t want to be 100% to blame. What she refers to is my anger sometimes, my controlling behavior and the way I concentrate too much effort on just our family. My original issue with Relate 18 months ago was that she spends too much time with her friends and family, and we never get any intimate time together. I asked if our next holiday could just be our family for a change. That’s the controlling behavior which she ignores anyway.  Incredibly At feb half term I was treated to a holiday away with her and her 2 best friends. She knew I wouldn’t want to go, was too busy building the extension, and we can’t afford it as we’re struggling to pay for building materials at the mo. She took the kids and went anyway. She doesn’t want  or need to change.  She has no unmet needs. Our sex therapist who hasn’t mentioned asexuality asked me to refrain from any touching or compliments as they were too much / suffocating. So I zip myself up in a sleeping bag as we still share same bed, go to bed really late to avoid awkward situations. Yes I wake up and I’m angry. I had to see gp about my sex mania, I had to see another counselor about my polarized thinking (my enthusiasm / perfectionism/ drive that means I put too much effort into things).  The no touching, no compliments flirting rule, separate sleeping has been the easiest thing in the world for an asexexual and the hardest thing in the world for a sexual. This morning before work I asked her a couple of questions about her suspected asexuality and she refused to answer them as it made her upset which seems so unfair to me.  I don’t think she’s answering honestly. She says she does need to have sex! But not as much as me and 5 months abstinence clearly isn’t any big deal. I’m really mixed up about how or what the right thing to do now is??? She really doesn’t understand those compromises that I’ve made as a sexual are BIG.  Going to bed to sleep is normal and easy for her. Not for me. Can you really get to your 40s and not realise these things? Her mum and sisters view is to screw the bastard for everything he’s got. Quite funny because if they weren’t speaking metaphorically this would solve all our problems. 

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Telecaster68
2 minutes ago, Roanch said:

I asked if our next holiday could just be our family for a change. That’s the controlling behavior which she ignores anyway

No, that's not controlling behaviour. Booking a cottage with only enough room for your family after she'd said she wanted to go with friends, then manipulating her or bullying her into accepting it would be controlling behaviour. If she's calling it controlling behaviour, that's pretty much gaslighting, or at least a counterattack/distraction, to deflect your request.

 

4 minutes ago, Roanch said:

Our sex therapist who hasn’t mentioned asexuality asked me to refrain from any touching or compliments as they were too much / suffocating.

Did your therapist also accept this will almost certainly lead to you emotionally withdrawing?

 

5 minutes ago, Roanch said:

I had to see gp about my sex mania, I had to see another counselor about my polarized thinking (my enthusiasm / perfectionism/ drive that means I put too much effort into things).

Do you think these are problems outside of your relationship with her? Or could these be more deflections by her to distract you from the intimacy (in the wider sense of intimacy) issues?

 

7 minutes ago, Roanch said:

Her mum and sisters view is to screw the bastard for everything he’s got.

This doesn't sound like she's coming from a healthy family background...

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Before I knew about asexuality I thought she was developing some Aspergers or something. I’m no expert here but what I mean is her failure to understand how her actions upset me. Unable to read signals, you know let’s have an early night wink wink. She would agree! But then go straight to sleep! But yes I’ve describe myself as no longer loving her. I’ve taken my ring off. What we have is not a marriage.  Not what we vowed all those years ago. This is Just since I was asked to stop suffocating her with compliments and flirting. I need advice about something I don’t know anything about and everyone (except here) might well be giving me even worse advice. How do I know? Yes I do everything for her / our family. Two foreign holidays a year with 3 kids means I have to work bloody hard. And now I think her actions have pushed me to more hard work / perfectionism to get her back. But I’ve always been driven. I Bought my own house when I was 19 before we met. I was ambitious then and I haven’t changed. She knew that then. More recently her actions cause my actions. I thought me getting a gym bod would Fire her up so to speak and get us closer.  That was a waste of a few years. The kids want their own rooms so I thought I’ll build a new extension, a new bedroom for us but I’ll make it really really nice for her. A walk in wardrobe, she’ll like that, a massive sky light over the bed, latest lighting, latest ensuite. I drew it on paper myself, I dug the foundations and did everything. 1500 hours. But she hasn’t even looked at it the colour chart! Her friends are really impressed though. It does look good even if I do say so myself. It’s a line in the sand for me now. It’s a family house I’ve built and we will live in it like a family, there’s no room in this design for 2 single beds just one ‘normal’ bed and there will be no sleeping bags. Being rejected is hard. I don’t like arguing. So lifting weights at midnight works the rejection and anger out of me. And allows me to sleep. It’s not because I’m obsessed that I’m in the gym at night time. It’s cos I’m frustrated as hell. I’ve only ever sought help from her mum once. Wedding was paid for by me, deposit on house paid by me, never asked for a thing, but I ended up seeking advice about asexual behavior (she more interested in her friends than me) from the 2 people (what’s the opposite to misogynists) who might be even further up the spectrum than my wife. Yes she does deflect. Talks about my anger like it’s a big issue ie I sulk of to the gym, go for a run, unload the blocks to work it all out of my system. I don’t even like raising my voice. I have grand mail epilepsy triggered by stress so don’t allow myself to get angry. Some friends she knows suffer domestic violence, other dads go boozing all weekend, spend thousands on golf or season tickets as their release. Me I lift rusty old second hand weights in the garage. This harms no one. In fact it probably produces more dopamine and feel good chemicals which has to be good. It is the chicken and the egg. What came first? But we’re in a viceous circle. No intimacy = me angry, do my thing, she do her thing= less intimacy, repeat. Thank you for having so much interest in my predicament. 

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Telecaster68

I could've written a lot of that myself. 

 

Not sure if you've tried the 'okay I'll back off and live my own life cheerily and amiably, making no demands on you', as per Michelle Wiener, distancing brings back a bit of tension, which many people associate with sexual desire. I did that. My wife just enjoyed the lack of intimacy and subsequently interpreted it as me being fine with no sex...

 

 

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Well yes it’s what we are doing. Separate lives in the same house. We work well together with the kids.  I think our counselor hoped a bit of abstinence would force us to rekindle the old fire. But it’s the absolute best result for an asexual and the absolute worst for a sexual. So it’s backfired. For me anyway. 

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, Roanch said:

Well yes it’s what we are doing. Separate lives in the same house. We work well together with the kids.  I think our counselor hoped a bit of abstinence would force us to rekindle the old fire. But it’s the absolute best result for an asexual and the absolute worst for a sexual. So it’s backfired. For me anyway. 

Does the counsellor know this? Has he/she suggested a different tack?

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The as suspicions  has come about since the last meeting. I’m annoyed it hasn’t been raised by professionals before now. Last monthly meeting was cancelled by them due to weather with no option to reschedule. Pinning hopes on our next one next week. 

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Telecaster68

She probably won't come close to any labels without a formal diagnosis. What about your wife being completely fine with no sex for the foreseeable future?

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I think no sex would suit her. However she did say she would like sex again with me when I changed my controlling and angry attitude (I asked her if we could go on holiday without her friends / family next time  because we never get any time to ourselves). Maybe she answered like this to keep me hanging on or maybe she means once a year or maybe she says it and doesn’t mean it.  No sex, touching, looking, or flirting for 5 months and it hasn’t bothered her at all!

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Telecaster68

It sounds like a way to stop you complaining about anything ever. 

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If she does not feel comfortable being sexual with you because of your attitude, unless you are able to find an attitude that suits her, she is not going to agree. It is entirely possible that she may simply have stopped finding you attractive and become resentful of your demands, in which case, she may never agree.

 

You need to operate from a position of making your choices rather than manipulating hers. Whether she is ace, whether she seems genuine in her offer of sex, whether her objections are reasonable and so on focuses on something outside your power to change. She is right about one thing. Anger is not going to endear you to her. Nor is a sense of entitlement - even if it isn't fulfilled. Marriage doesn't actually entitle you to sex though I agree it is frustrating to not get laid even after marrying.

 

She may be wrong, but it is her mistake to make. Just as you make yours.

 

You need to figure out your path. You have built a family home and a family it will be appears to be your conclusion. In which case, you may have to live with the fact that hers is not in alignment on the sexual front and pushing her will only force her to separate or dislike you.

 

A relationship that fails in intimate areas is a complex thing. I'd advise you to court her as you would a woman you are interested in rather than one whose body you feel entitled to - regardless of whether you get access or not. The anger is frustrated entitlement. On one hand it is you calling her ace, even as she denies it. On the other, you are angry about her not wanting sex and being critical and suspicious about simple questions like how often would she be expected to have it. It is a fairly common question among mismatched couples. How is she supposed to know? You seem to expect that the question should not arise. Well, she tried that, and operated by her own estimation and that has you miserable too.

 

If a relationship of this sort bothers you, then you will have to seek a relationship that is more sexual rather than try to change her.

 

You seem to be blaming her while giving yourself credit for spending money and effort on things that apparently she did not ask for nor do they seem to be key motivators for her. You seem to have made unilateral decisions that don't account for her preferences. So those were things you did as per your vision. What is hers? So far we know lack of anger is one expectation, which you don't seem to feel able to fulfill.

 

Personally, I'd find it hard to sleep with a man who thought he was doing favors by doing things he wanted to do that were not important to me AND expecting me to be grateful in a sexual manner. And being angry like I was some customer service helpline instead of a person who did not feel comfortable offering sex.

 

How about you focus on what YOU can do? You can accept she doesn't want sex or you can accept that she has specific conditions and try to meet them, even though you are sceptical about being able to, or you can accept that you cannot accept the current situation and her efforts are not adequate and move on from the relationship. That is really all that is actually in your control in a legal manner.

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@Roanch! We only know your side of the story, but it sounds like you have a quite common, sexual approach to being in a relationship. (I see a lot of me in your story) You see her and give her compliments and ‘things’, like a new bedroom, holidays as she likes it. You have a dream about going on a holiday and being intimate with her in “exotic surroundings”. Perfectly normal. You have spend 1500 hours on things which you beleive was a lot about making her happy. Now you would like her to do/want to meet your basic need to be intimate and happy. Perfectly normal. In a normal sexual/sexual couple, it is about finding a good compromise, but the compromise between, say “twice a week” and “never” is not necessary once a week. If her choice would be “never”, then once in a lifetime would be too much for her. I still advocate for finding a solution. Perhaps by seperating these three things. 1. How do you both show/receive love? (Kiss/hug/words?) 2.accept your different approaches to sex. 3. How and how much can sex be a part of both your lives without causing pain or deprression?

 

My feelings towards holidays have always been mixed. It was a good oppurtunity to get things done and be together as couple as well as family. I have always been irritated that the extra time together never turned out to include more sex on the programme, but always way less than usual. I thougth removing stressful job, getting practical things done at home, having quality-time at nice places, no need to get up early next morning, me fullfillng some of her ‘would likes’ like building a new bathroom... could mean more room for nice sex. But perhaps the sex was also part of her stress?  Looking back, I should have made the sex-agreement with her earlier and instead of being the silent sufferer, I should have been open. Not demanding sex, but awareness and solutions and clarity.

me: “Ok, we are going on vacation on our sex nigth. I get a bit stressed out, when I dont know what to expect. Quite often I feel like you forget about our sex deal, but I would rather we made a ‘holiday deal’, whattaya say?”

her: “Do I forget it? I didnt know? ...but I am not sure I will be comfortable with having sex while my parents next door in a small cabin. (Or it is so hot or... insert reason that some sexuals would find a way to get past)”

me:”I would find it extremely satisfying to go for a silent, quickie during the holiday, and otherwise... how about changing our sex date?”

her: “I would stress out about the quickie. Lets aim for day twoafter our return home?”

 

it isnt a hot, sexy talk. But it gives me reassurement that sex will happen. It takes away the stress for me. It doesnt put more stress on her. 

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Personally, I'm a great believer in zero budget holidays AT HOME to rejuvenate a relationship. Get rid of the clutter. The work, the outside responsibilities, and create space for the two of you. That way, you don't spend money that she doesn't appreciate, and it is hard for other people to intrude. How will that be done? You both are at home, so they came over to stay and vacation at your home? Far less likely. Besides, you can say that your "Home vacation" is about cutting out external factors, so no, they can't visit on those days.

 

You get to keep the money and spend it on what matters to you, she doesn't have to feel like you are trying to buy her compliance on sex (this can actually make a disinterested person repulsed - to think that an expensive gift comes with strings)

 

Also nothing wrong with taking time out and staying somewhere, but the minute you add travel, itinerary and activities to your day, voila! you have a busy day again with no/less time for each other - relatives or not. If a time off is to improve your relationship, it should provide a supportive environment without cluttering your attention with things not relevant to the relationship.

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I've been following this thread and there's a lot on what's happened so far and what's the current situation. The only reference to some discussion about the future was where you've asked her if she'd ever wants to have sex again. I understand this is a key question and source of frustration for you, but have you tried asking her how she envisions your relationship (as a whole, not the sexual aspect of it) going forward? What does she want from it, from you, what is her ideal view of your life together?

 

Going from your posts, it seems like you've been trying to fix things alone and have been putting to practice your ideas of what the relationship should look like (compliments, presents, you getting ripped, building a house). None of that seems to work for her - and you're frustrated because of it. But it seems to me that you keep doing things and expect her to like them without actually asking her what she wants and likes. Her idea of what a relationship should look like might be very, very different from yours - couples often fall into a routine and forget to check with each other if they're still getting what they need from the relationship and it goes on until something comes up and shakes things up. In your case it was your mounting frustration with lack of intimacy and your sexual needs not being met. What doesn't click for her? If she wants something changed, is she willing to work with you or alone on it to change it? Is she happy to go forward leaving things as they are? I think it's worth to check that out, and to compare notes. Find a good peaceful moment, leave everything that's happened so far behind you for a minute, and try to focus on her expectations and ideas. If she manages to communicate those clearly, do a reality check of how they overlap with yours - sometimes people just have incompatible relationship styles. 

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Points taken. Thank you. But at a certain age with kids I think some of the things that we both want or need do become quite mundane. We need a bigger house so the kids get their own rooms, we need a new bathroom because we have 5 queuing outside it. We need to pay for school trips and ferry kids to their clubs. All quite boring stuff. She wants a cruise, Kids want to go sailing, I thought a 300 year old mill b&b in Pyrenees would be nice surprise for your wife,  she misses her sister. So we combined all of this into one holiday. I try to compromise keeping everyone a bit happy within constraints of time and money. And as breadwinner I have to fit it in with my work and budget. That’s just practical I think, not controlling. My plan was always spend time with the kids and keep them happy = happy wife. But What she wants doesn’t involve me or the kids as much as I’d like and isn’t always feasible financially. I’m communicating this to her but she sees this as controlling. So my idea, going out with your friends one weekend means next night out is with your husband. Go on holiday with your friends means the next holiday will be with your family. I’d call it give and take and of course I’d apply the same to me as well. It’s just my idea of a marriage, a partnership involving 2 equals. Last time she went out with the girls I had to clean her vomit of the bathroom floor. I think most partners would start asserting control once things impact on them like this. The reason I’m on this forum is because I believe her priority preference for spending time with herbfriends is connected with her asexuality. Socializing with her mates seems to becoming her form of release. I’m trying to understand asexuality more and get her back a little bit. 

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I'm not trying to antagonise but this post is again your point of view and your plans, mostly in terms of material things. My prompt was more to determine what she wants as a relationship, as emotions, as types of intimacy she needs. If all she ever expresses to you is that she wants time that doesn't involve you or the kids (the only reference in your post about her needs), then ask about that - is this something she needs to recharge now and then, or does she want to distance herself in general? If it's the former, ask her how much time she needs, and if you're able to, try giving her that without framing it as some kind of a deal. Because frankly, if my partner presented to me things in the shape of "well you went out last night so now you have to spend time with me" I'd also consider it a bit controlling. Not because I don't want to spend time with them but because this phrasing makes it seem like I owe them that time - which is not true. If it's the latter and she's just generally trying to distance herself, why would any of you want to keep a relationship that makes you both unhappy? Also, asking her directly will cut short assumptions - if you believe your partner is doing something because of her asexuality, no forum could ever help you adequately if you're not willing to listen or she isn't willing to talk.  

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On 22/03/2018 at 12:16 AM, Roanch said:

Points taken. Thank you. But at a certain age with kids I think some of the things that we both want or need do become quite mundane. We need a bigger house so the kids get their own rooms, we need a new bathroom because we have 5 queuing outside it. We need to pay for school trips and ferry kids to their clubs. All quite boring stuff. She wants a cruise, Kids want to go sailing, I thought a 300 year old mill b&b in Pyrenees would be nice surprise for your wife,  she misses her sister. So we combined all of this into one holiday. I try to compromise keeping everyone a bit happy within constraints of time and money. And as breadwinner I have to fit it in with my work and budget. That’s just practical I think, not controlling. My plan was always spend time with the kids and keep them happy = happy wife.

This is what you want and see the relationship should be. You see your role as providing. This is fairly common in traditional households, where it is the man's job to provide and the woman's job to serve. Sadly, in the modern world, where women are more empowered, they may not accept a service job as easily. They have their jobs, they have their choices and if those don't get respected, they don't like the person who doesn't respect them.

 

Me, for example... my partner lives in my home. Let's begin from there. He likes to provide for me, but is equally accepting of me taking decisions for us all. We both check with each other and major plans go through ONLY with consent of both. Regardless of how necessary one of us may think it is. And very often, what we think is urgent and necessary is different. It can even address the same problem in completely different ways or see some other problem as more urgent to address than the one the other one thinks.

 

What you are describing is a role of the decisionmaker of the home, not a lover. It isn't my lover's job to figure out how much space I will live in and how. I'm capable of figuring that out for myself or together with him if we live together. This is irrelevant to the love/romance side of things, but if I feel disenfranchised on these fronts, but expected to reciprocate with sex over my own disenfranchisement... welll, good luck with that.

 

I would call my lover's job to find out what makes me happy and deliver in a manner that makes me happy - as I would for him.

 

On 22/03/2018 at 12:16 AM, Roanch said:

But What she wants doesn’t involve me or the kids as much as I’d like and isn’t always feasible financially. I’m communicating this to her but she sees this as controlling.

She is in the same home. She is aware of the finances. If what she wants is not feasible, she could be asked to provide the financial planning for it. Or you could save up. This is sounding more like her preferences being different from yours, so you dismissing them for whatever reason as the decisionmaker - read above AGAIN. A veto has no place in love. She lives in the home you made as you wished. She attends the vacations you organize as you see best. You could try reciprocating gracefully.

 

On 22/03/2018 at 12:16 AM, Roanch said:

So my idea, going out with your friends one weekend means next night out is with your husband. Go on holiday with your friends means the next holiday will be with your family. I’d call it give and take and of course I’d apply the same to me as well.

For her, it could be going out with friends one weekend, going out with other friends next weekend, catching a film with her sister a third weekend and staying home to sleep the fourth. The same with holidays. If she does not find pleasure in spending time with you, you will not be able to control it with rules, though it is tempting to say, ok, this rule and whether you like it or not, you must be with me.

 

And this may not even be about loving you or hating you or finding pleasure spending time with you. My partner, for example has a very active social life of which, sometimes, he invites me to be a part, when he thinks something could be interesting. But largely, it really is his thing. Spending time with me? At home. Sharing the same room while we work, cooking together, spending anxious days and nights when the child is hospitalized, coping through bad times, celebrating the good, looking for a new place to rent, sleeping in same bed, usually tangled up with each other, evening walks - none of which he does with his friends either. So?

 

It would be rather silly if I started expecting him to spend time with me like he does with people he meets occasionally. Or worse, made rules about it. And still worse, started muddling up the whole thing into a bundle that said he now owes me sex. He adores me to bits, but if I started expecting things for me for each time he did things for himself, he'd start wondering whether he is living his life or mine.

 

For that matter, you'd go bonkers if every time you decided to do something for the home, she made a rule that forced you to do something else she said. Like obligation. Whether you wanted to or not. Every time you did something you chose.

 

Do you have your own friends to hang out with? You should leverage those for when she is out with hers, so you feel less tormented by her being with her friends. Or find a hobby. Or something.

 

On 22/03/2018 at 12:16 AM, Roanch said:

It’s just my idea of a marriage, a partnership involving 2 equals. 

A lot of women I know would have a problem with this. When I met my ace, one of the things I made pretty damn clear was that he does not own me. We are together by choice. If he cannot accept me as I am (and who'd blame him, I can be pretty crazy), I would fully support his autonomous choice, including to leave me, but he can't tell me how to live my life and particularly how I spend my time. Your wife does stuff with friends. I do stuff with geeky interests that can really suck me in endlessly. He wasn't even trying to, but this was me setting up a preemptive warning sign. Like don't even go there.

 

Because it matters and as someone who had seen the orthodox mindsets aimed at women in relationships, I knew this was not my game ever.

 

On 22/03/2018 at 12:16 AM, Roanch said:

Last time she went out with the girls I had to clean her vomit of the bathroom floor.

If it is a one off thing, I'd see it as a part of caring for your partner. If she routinely goes with friends and you have to face unpleasant fallout of this sort, you can state YOUR limits. "This is your vomit basket. Use it, clean it when you get sober. I will not be cleaning up after you like this" If she does it regularly in spite of your objections, time to accept that you can't live with that and move on.

 

Also, is the problem the vomit or the friends? I didn't get the connection. If she got high and threw up after a night out with you?

 

On 22/03/2018 at 12:16 AM, Roanch said:

I think most partners would start asserting control once things impact on them like this.

Most partners would. Many of them would also fail. It really depends on how much of a doormat your partner is. Some, you can bully into place. Others, you have to negotiate. Still others, nothing works and you have to suck it up or move on.

 

On 22/03/2018 at 12:16 AM, Roanch said:

The reason I’m on this forum is because I believe her priority preference for spending time with herbfriends is connected with her asexuality. Socializing with her mates seems to becoming her form of release. I’m trying to understand asexuality more and get her back a little bit. 

At this point, I'm not even sure she is asexual or simply does not want to have anything to do with you. I would recommend talking to her more and trying to understand what she wants and how she wants it and seeing if that fits what you are willing to offer. If not, you probably should find a way to separate - either legally, or sharing a home for the kids, but having separate lives, including romantic.

 

The bottom line is, no matter the "guarantee" (like "marriage", "relationship", "friends", etc), you cannot actually "rule" a person into wanting to be with you.

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One advice a friend gave another who was lost as to what his wife wanted was "I do this with my wife. I tell her I have <number> amount of money that I can spare for our enjoyment. You tell me how I should spend it" Occurs to me this could work with vacations for your wife. Instead of you calculating what her vacation would cost and declaring it financially unviable, why not tell her how much you are prepared to spend, and let her decide what would fit in it, or if she wants to put this aside to combine with the next time you have money available for a vacation and go for what she really wanted...

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Points taken on board.  Thank you

 

so after reading lots of stuff she is describing herself as similar to gray sexual. We’re both mixed up because we never knew about these terms a month or so ago. Maybe she is. Or maybe she’s just not into me🙁

 

Some things that may be relevant...

She hates me using the word sexy, she doesn’t really understand what it means  

She accepts she has quite a low libido. It’s only really fired up at one point in her cycle

  She doesn’t ever like kissing on mouth, or neck, ears etc. 

things like massages, candles, bubble baths are big no no’s. 

She’s not too bothered that we haven’t been intimate or even touched in the last 5 months. 

She says there is no way ever that she’d ever have sex in the morning. Even if everything else was lining up. Even if the kids were away and we had a clear schedule. So I’m thinking there’s no impulsiveness there.  

She never ever compliments me or returns compliments. If say I said she looked   Really nice (not sexy lol) in her new dress she’d say thank you but never return the compliment.  If I send her a flirty text saying I’m thinking about her she’d never respond or she’d text me back to say don’t forget to get milk lol. 

 

In all this it might sound like I’m just missing the physical sex And yes this is hard for me.  But this in itself wasn’t destroying the relationship. I now think that it was more a warning sign that we’d moved apart. Without the physical act we now seem to have no connection / no bond in any way other than the children. The physical side of things was essential to the relationship for lots of other reasons. For both of us I think. 

 

Btw we’re far from an old fashioned traditional family. We both went part time and shared looking after the babies when they were little and I loved this (maybe a bit too much). I’d swop roles back to house husband tomorrow. At the moment Yes She cooks mostly and does the housework. But it’s ONLY because Im out at work. You know she does laundry in the day, And i bring it in and iron it in the evening. But I have always spent more time with the kids. I do all their homework with them, do the bedtime reading, make stuff with them,  take them to the park, or out with their friends and to their clubs.

 

just trying to understand the other perspective 

 

 

 

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Telecaster68
23 minutes ago, Roanch said:

She’s not too bothered that we haven’t been intimate or even touched in the last 5 months. 

Does she seem bothered that you're bothered though?

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No. She just doesn’t seem to see this no touching thing as any big deal or my feelings as any big deal. She’s like a robot - no empathy / unable to read others (my) feelings / non verbal communication. Similar to some sort of autism.  It’s so weird. We potter around the house like the other ones not there.  It’s like an unspoken rule that any communication, accidental touching, smile or chatting might fire me up (it won’t take much after 5 months, even the wind changing lol) and we’ll be in that awkward situation and I’ll be dealing with the rejection. It’s quite a sudden change from 6 months ago from sex maybe once or twice a month, a sort of functioning relationship but with a good few difficulties to what we have now which is just nothing. 

Is it me? Is it gray sexuality? Bit of both? Something else? How do i know?

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4 hours ago, Roanch said:

It’s like an unspoken rule that any communication, accidental touching, smile or chatting might fire me up (it won’t take much after 5 months, even the wind changing lol) and we’ll be in that awkward situation and I’ll be dealing with the rejection.

She already knows that.  You've already admitted here as much.  So, she's not 'wrong' in her fears.  It's like faulting her for being afraid that you'll get excited (and consequently rejected), so she avoids doing anything that would put either of you in that uncomfortable position.  She may feel like she's caught between a rock and a hard spot (no pun intended).  

 

She may very well wish that she could hug you without you wanting it to go farther.  

 

Do you wish the same thing?  

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On 27/03/2018 at 6:19 PM, Roanch said:

No. She just doesn’t seem to see this no touching thing as any big deal or my feelings as any big deal. She’s like a robot - no empathy / unable to read others (my) feelings / non verbal communication. Similar to some sort of autism.  It’s so weird. We potter around the house like the other ones not there.  It’s like an unspoken rule that any communication, accidental touching, smile or chatting might fire me up (it won’t take much after 5 months, even the wind changing lol) and we’ll be in that awkward situation and I’ll be dealing with the rejection. It’s quite a sudden change from 6 months ago from sex maybe once or twice a month, a sort of functioning relationship but with a good few difficulties to what we have now which is just nothing. 

Is it me? Is it gray sexuality? Bit of both? Something else? How do i know?

You may want to google up Alexithymia. It is basically emotional blindness. Again, like asexuality, the "range" may vary and without any evidence whatsoever, I'm hypothesizing that it may be a factor in asexuality for at least some poeple - particularly those with a libido otherwise.

 

Individuals with Alexithymia have difficulty understanding emotions. This can vary. It can be that they feel them, but are unable to put them to words - articulate them. Or they may not be aware of what they feel at all, unless it is something extreme. Similarly, they may have difficulty understanding our emotions, because they don't have a context for them, since they aren't aware of theirs to begin with. Think of it like this "this person seems to be bouncing off walls. They say they are happy, but I don't really get it. Why are they acting in such a bizarre manner and talking all loudly and agitated?". In day to day life, they can get away with purely transactional relationships, but dealing with emotions can be a major pitfall. And not necessarily in intimate relationships. They may not get subtle disapproval in an employer till they get "tolerated" beyond limits and fired or they may make terrible customer service people, because they will not be able to sense and related with concerns well enough and may come across as arrogant or callous.

 

My partner has Alexithymia. You ask him how he is feeling, he'll say "alright" - whether he's returning from a friend's funeral or telling me about a much awaited promotion at work. If I press him to tell me how he is feeling, he will reply with generic bodily sensations - hungry, sleepy... He'll never reply "terrible. I miss him" or "yesss. fantastic. Finally it has happened" - it can all manifest as stress - including the good things, sometimes. On the bright side, when my son fractured his leg, I was trembling so much I couldn't stand and slid down to the floor while they were setting it. He stood there calmly comforting both my son and me. After the crisis was over, he felt "tired". Same as he did about work stress.

 

This, in turn translates into an erratic sex life. He isn't aware of feeling desire at all. Or it can be really wonky. Once he got horny seeing me troubleshoot something on a server, oblivious to him. It would be something he associated mentally with, that only he knows. But needless, to say, it was a pretty good change of scene for me after a troubleshooting nightmare :P

 

Over the years, we have found out that if he seems stressed or closed and replying in monosyllables while looking unhappy, I ask him questions that help me understand. What are you thinking about? What happened? I can understand how that must have hurt.... (I am now guessing the impact on him). If I guess right, he'll become visibly calmer. or he may say "no, I'm not hurt, but I am .... whatever - will usually be thoughts or a sequence of events, not emotions. And so on.

 

But talking does make it easier with time to communicate and that, in turn opens possibilities for other important areas that seem to be choked.

 

That said, it doesn't ever go away completely, but both of you develop skills to cope with it.

 

Edit: I doubt alexithymia would be a factor for aces present on the forum, but possible as one for partners of sexuals here. Someone with emotional blindness is unlikely to be disturbed enough by a sexual mismatch or even their own asexuality to feel any need to find out more or seek solutions to land up on a forum.

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Mary Lambert
On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 7:03 AM, Roanch said:

She did seem to accept that her libido was a bit low a while back and mentioned this to her doctor. They changed her pill. Nothing. wait a year to let chemicals leave body. nothing. tried coming off the pill altogether. nothing, wait a year to get chemicals out of body. still nothing. So she's not on pill and not taking any other medication.

 

I am a medical professional and can attest that any medication can cause issues like what your have discussed and the pill is notorious for this. But it also sounds like she has hang ups beyond that but the pill is a sex killer for many. As a woman it is so hard because we have a lot of fear that is associated with the act. The fear and pain that is associated with pregnancy and the social stigma that women are supposed to be ladies is still a  hard one. So with that said, working on your health will help set an example for her. She will see you all fit and healthy and eventually it may urge her to do the same. As an Allo married to an ACE, I had to get fit and sexy for me. It makes a difference- believe me. You are on the right path. You are turning a painful situation into a good one. There is light at the end of the tunnel. Start juicing and using protein powders. Eat well and drink lots of water. At the very least she will see you slipping away and want to chase after you and at the very best she will start taking better care of herself and feel better about you and her. But you will find that you will be happier too. Don't be afraid to get girl friends who are just friends. Will it make her realize what she stands to loose? Who cares, its your prerogative to live a full life and have women ogle you, just like before you got together. Live your life. :) Yours, Mary

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