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I don't understand romantic relationships, but I feel like I might be being disrespectful


Beaver Boy

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I have recently been coming to accept that I am aro. One thing that made me realize this is that I had a friend who I used to hug but now she says it's probably not a good idea because her boyfriend does not like it when other people give her long hugs and I guess I just really don't understand that exclusivity aspect to romantic relationships. I don't know her boyfriend at all, but I think he doesn't understand the situation. I don't think he's necessarily being over controlling because I feel like wanting a touch exclusive romantic relationship is a legitimate thing. But he doesn't know me or that I'm aro, so I feel like it shouldn't matter if we hug.

 

I'm just worried that I may be pushing boundaries too far just by trying to explain to my friend and her boyfriend why it should not be a problem. But then I feel guilty about telling them what they should be okay with. I don't get to decide what they're ok with - that's up to them. At the same time, I really want to explain it to them because I just want them to understand. I'm kind of afraid of trying to explain myself to her boyfriend since I don't know him at all and I'm not going to assume he'd understand.

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You really can't control what people will understand, or what they will accept.  Even though you didn't intend the hug to be romantic, It would probably be best if you just don't try to hug your friend anymore, since she was the one to make that request.  

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31 minutes ago, Beaver Boy said:

I have recently been coming to accept that I am aro. One thing that made me realize this is that I had a friend who I used to hug but now she says it's probably not a good idea because her boyfriend does not like it when other people give her long hugs and I guess I just really don't understand that exclusivity aspect to romantic relationships. I don't know her boyfriend at all, but I think he doesn't understand the situation. I don't think he's necessarily being over controlling because I feel like wanting a touch exclusive romantic relationship is a legitimate thing. But he doesn't know me or that I'm aro, so I feel like it shouldn't matter if we hug.

 

I'm just worried that I may be pushing boundaries too far just by trying to explain to my friend and her boyfriend why it should not be a problem. But then I feel guilty about telling them what they should be okay with. I don't get to decide what they're ok with - that's up to them. At the same time, I really want to explain it to them because I just want them to understand. I'm kind of afraid of trying to explain myself to her boyfriend since I don't know him at all and I'm not going to assume he'd understand.

I can totally understand where your friend and her boyfriend are coming from, I don't let my partner hug ANY females at all outside of his immediate family, though I don't mind if he hugs other males. And I would never hug a male while I'm in a relationship with my partner. The thing about hetero people hugging (and your friend is obviously hetero or at least bi) is that hugging is quite an intimate act and many monogamous couples like reserving all intimacy for each other, and also, hugging between a male and female involves her breasts being pushed against you in some way, and that's waaaaay bordering on inappropriate. That's why I won't let my partner hug girls (because of the intimacy and the idea of someone else's breasts being pushed against him) and why I won't hug other men. It doesn't really make a difference if you're aromantic or not, it's still an intimate act that many couples desire to reserve for each other.

 

Obviously not all romantic couples are like this though, some have no issue with their partner hugging other people :)

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1 hour ago, Beaver Boy said:

I had a friend who I used to hug but now she says it's probably not a good idea because her boyfriend does not like it when other people give her long hugs and I guess I just really don't understand that exclusivity aspect to romantic relationships.

This really varies from person to person and I doubt it is about your asexuality. Some people have these very jealous/possessive vampire romance style relationships where they have dramatic tantrums over the slightest access to their loved one by other people, like their loved one is either so stupid or ill treated that they'd walk off with the first person to show them affection or something - they probably think it is romantic. Others don't. I see it as complete lack of trust in a partner.

 

I wouldn't appreciate this sort of a thing in a relationship I am in at all. I would not feel comfortable if my ace (or other sexual partners) avoided hugging other women he liked because of some exclusivity, because I would see it as them portraying me as a controlling jerk! Good luck to anyone who tries to tell me who I can hug and who I can't - or for that matter "allows" or "disallows" any of my autonomous behavior other than with themselves. I am actually not a physical person about affection other than with my partner, but if/when I feel affection and want to hug, I hug. Period. It has everything to do with how I feel with that person in the moment and absolutely nothing to do with my relationship status.

 

In the sense, that it is a mindset. You'd be able to argue an exception if his objection was strictly sexual jealousy - so she can hug gays or non-lesbians or asexuals, for example. Personally, I would NEVER apply to a third person for permission to be myself with someone. If they don't have that freedom, they don't have that freedom.I don't believe in people owning other people or rights or access to their bodies. People are people. They relate and interact. Not things to be allowed or forbidden access to. I would not be close to them.

 

But then I am also poly. So I suppose I am "wired" differently. If my relationship with my partner is good, any intimacy with anyone that brings them joy, I'm happy for them. If my relationship with my partner is bad, that is a problem, but still irrelevant to their relationships with others.

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I agree with anamikanon though I'm def not poly. I also see it as jealousy/controlling thing. I can't see why two good friends wouldn't be able to hug each other just because some jerk told the one party it's inappropriate.

It's all about trust. If you lack trust, then you have a problem.

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2 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

I agree with anamikanon though I'm def not poly. I also see it as jealousy/controlling thing. I can't see why two good friends wouldn't be able to hug each other just because some jerk told the one party it's inappropriate.

It's all about trust. If you lack trust, then you have a problem.

Yeah, that’s exactly the conclusion my mind sort of “jumps” to, but as @FictoVore. said, some people truly need to reserve hugs for a romantic partner. It’s really hard for me to accept and it seems heteronormative and maybe it is. Or maybe it isn’t:

8 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

It doesn't really make a difference if you're aromantic or not, it's still an intimate act that many couples desire to reserve for each other.

I’ll just have to accept that we won’t be hugging anymore

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14 minutes ago, Beaver Boy said:

Yeah, that’s exactly the conclusion my mind sort of “jumps” to, but as @FictoVore. said, some people truly need to reserve hugs for a romantic partner. It’s really hard for me to accept and it seems heteronormative and maybe it is. Or maybe it isn’t:

8 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

It doesn't really make a difference if you're aromantic or not, it's still an intimate act that many couples desire to reserve for each other.

I’ll just have to accept that we won’t be hugging anymore

People hug each other at many conventions. They wander around with a sign "free hugs" and I even saw couples doing that. 

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I find this sexualisiation of pretty much all physical contact between people in the Western world deeply saddening. Touch is NOT exclusively sexual, not even primarily so. And there are many many cultures that prove this. 

 

It has been scientifically proven that physical contact is good for (most of) us and to limit what is a natural and beautiful expression of all the different types of love and affection we can feel for the people in our lives we care about, to this one physiological process (apparently, the height and whole meaning of existence for so many), is deeply sad and, to me at least, makes life a much poorer experience.

 

And that comes from someone who for the longest time didn't want people touching her because I was afraid if people were to come too close, they'd be repulsed (I have my issues ;)). Currently living in Brazil, where people give their friends (of the opposite, too) gender not just hugs, but kisses, and I really like it.

 

Also, were I to be in a relationship, I would find my partner telling me I can't hug my friends utterly unacceptable.

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34 minutes ago, Solovei said:

Also, were I to be in a relationship, I would find my partner telling me I can't hug my friends utterly unacceptable.

Yes that's why this is something you talk about BEFORE getting into a relationship. My partner and I both agreed we desired total touch/intimate monogamy (except for family) before agreeing to be together, and we're on opposite sides of the word so can't even touch each other. That doesn't stop us desiring total monogamy when it comes to any kind of touch or intimacy. If he'd said "no I obviously want to have female friends that I press my body against (hug)" then we would have agreed a relationship isn't for us. No harm done :)

 

34 minutes ago, Solovei said:

I find this sexualisiation of pretty much all physical contact between people in the Western world deeply saddening. Touch is NOT exclusively sexual, not even primarily so. And there are many many cultures that prove this. 

 

Hugs aren't sexual to many people, they're *intimate* though and involve very close physical contact. Many people don't want their partner being intimate with someone who matches their sexual orientation (ie a hetero woman being intimate with a man). Everyone should *always* have their physical boundaries respected, and that includes a couple who have established physical boundaries with other people as a result of a desire for *total* intimate monogamy with each other ^_^

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, anamikanon said:

This really varies from person to person and I doubt it is about your asexuality. Some people have these very jealous/possessive vampire romance style relationships where they have dramatic tantrums over the slightest access to their loved one by other people, like their loved one is either so stupid or ill treated that they'd walk off with the first person to show them affection or something - they probably think it is romantic. Others don't. I see it as complete lack of trust in a partner.

 

I wouldn't appreciate this sort of a thing in a relationship I am in at all. I would not feel comfortable if my ace (or other sexual partners) avoided hugging other women he liked because of some exclusivity, because I would see it as them portraying me as a controlling jerk! Good luck to anyone who tries to tell me who I can hug and who I can't - or for that matter "allows" or "disallows" any of my autonomous behavior other than with themselves. I am actually not a physical person about affection other than with my partner, but if/when I feel affection and want to hug, I hug. Period. It has everything to do with how I feel with that person in the moment and absolutely nothing to do with my relationship status.

 

In the sense, that it is a mindset. You'd be able to argue an exception if his objection was strictly sexual jealousy - so she can hug gays or non-lesbians or asexuals, for example. Personally, I would NEVER apply to a third person for permission to be myself with someone. If they don't have that freedom, they don't have that freedom.I don't believe in people owning other people or rights or access to their bodies. People are people. They relate and interact. Not things to be allowed or forbidden access to. I would not be close to them.

 

But then I am also poly. So I suppose I am "wired" differently. If my relationship with my partner is good, any intimacy with anyone that brings them joy, I'm happy for them. If my relationship with my partner is bad, that is a problem, but still irrelevant to their relationships with others.

I, on the other hand, am what one calls 'hardcore monogamous' and it's not about jealousy or control or anything negative like that for me and my partner. Yes, it's like that for some people (though if they're in a relationship and both agree to it then it's still their choice as long as they mutually want it and no one is being threatened or coerced into it) but for us, it's that we both feed emotionally off that total monogamy with each other. It makes us very content, calm, happy, and invigorated sensually at the same time, knowing our bodies belong so completely to each other. It's not 'painful' or difficult for me knowing I can't touch people, I ACTIVELY want that and love it and it makes our relationship stronger. It's not like we are sad or unhappy about being not able to touch other people, we both actively want that for ourselves as much as each other and I know I for one wouldn't want to be with my partner if he said anything like "please hug and touch other men, I want you to have that kind of intimacy in your life". That would show me we are NOT intimately compatible at all because I don't want that, I don't want to touch anyone, and I want him to want that for me (and for himself). This is all stuff we talked about BEFORE getting together of course, we established what kind of boundaries we desired and realizing how compatible we are on this front was just another sign that we should definitely be together.

 

Not everyone feeds off being able to touch anyone they want any time they want, some people feed off the opposite, and there's nothing bad or wrong or toxic about that as long as both people in the relationship want that. 

 

We both desire *total* intimate monogamy and there is nothing wrong or unhealthy about that in any way :)

 

(Also yes, it's only people who match our sexual orientations that we don't want each other hugging. @Beaver Boy it's not 'heteronormative' because if me and my partner were lesbian women  then it would be other women we didn't want each other touching regardless of the sexual orientation of those other women). :cake:

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7 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

I also see it as jealousy/controlling thing.

It's only a controlling and jealousy thing if she was too *scared* to hug @Beaver Boy. If her and Beaver were alone and knew they could safely hug, and she still didn't want to hug him, then that's actually her choice, she is controlling her own bodily autonamy and also probably thinking "I know I don't want my boyfriend hugging other women, and he feels the same about the idea of me hugging other men, so out of respect for our relationship boundaries I'm not going to hug Beaver anymore". That's generally the thought process going on in a naturally monogamous person's mind. It's only "control" (in a negative and unhealthy sense) if she wanted to hug Beaver and wouldn't mind if her boyfriend hugged another woman, but was too scared to in case her boyfriend found out and hurt her or something as a result of the hug. In that case, it's obviously toxic and unhealthy and she needs to dump his arse.

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6 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

It's only a controlling and jealousy thing if she was too *scared* to hug @Beaver Boy. If her and Beaver were alone and knew they could safely hug, and she still didn't want to hug him, then that's actually her choice, she is controlling her own bodily autonamy and also probably thinking "I know I don't want my boyfriend hugging other women, and he feels the same about the idea of me hugging other men, so out of respect for our relationship boundaries I'm not going to hug Beaver anymore". That's generally the thought process going on in a naturally monogamous person's mind. It's only "control" if she wanted to hug Beaver and wouldn't mind if her boyfriend hugged another woman, but was too scared to in case her boyfriend found out and hurt her or something as a result of the hug. In that case, it's obviously toxic and unhealthy.

But what's the deal about hugging? It's a normal thing friends do, at least in my country. If she wanted to hug her friend, but then her boyfriend said no, it's definitely jealousy.

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7 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

But what's the deal about hugging? It's a normal thing friends do, at least in my country. If she wanted to hug her friend, but then her boyfriend said no, it's definitely jealousy.

Did you read all my comments I just made? I think I explained it quite thoroughly if you read those too! She may be just as uncomfortable about the idea of her boyfriend hugging other women, so is just naturally respecting the intimate boundaries in their relationship.

 

We also need to remember here that Beaver isn't talking about a brief hug, he specifically said *long hugs*, which to many romantic people are much more intimate than your regular 'grab and squeeze' goodbye hug. I don't even count 'long hugs' as hugs, I count them as a snuggle which is veeeeeery intimate (for me, and many other romantic people). I personally feel that some of the hostility (towards this idea) in this thread is a little misplaced just because we are talking about quite a special act that romantic monogamous people often do prefer to reserve for each other out of respect for the intimate boundaries of their relationship.  For me, a 'long hug' is akin to walking in hand in hand (you'd do it with your child or your romantic partner, but not the average friend due to the intimacy levels). I know many romantic monogamous people would see this in the same light as me. :)

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While she was single, she might have been getting her romantic snuggle needs met with Beaver (who maybe didn't place the same 'type' of intimate value on them, being aromantic? - they're obviously very important to him, but they may be a lot less 'romantically intimte' to Beaver than they are to the girl), but now that she's in a monogamous romantic relationship she wants to reserve that for her partner and he wants the same. It could be something as simple as that :)

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50 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

I, on the other hand, am what one calls 'hardcore monogamous' and it's not about jealousy or control or anything negative like that for me and my partner. Yes, it's like that for some people (though if they're in a relationship and both agree to it then it's still their choice) but for us, it's that we both feed emotionally off that total monogamy with each other

Thanks so much for the explanation! My gut feeling jumps to thinking they are just jealous and controlling, but in the back of my head, I knew it was wrong to just assume such things. Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I wouldn’t want to erode someone’s attraction that  inherently “feeds emotionally”of off total monogamy. I think it will be easier to accept that we will no longer be hugging now.

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27 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

Did you read all my comments I just made? I think I explained it quite thoroughly if you read those too! She may be just as uncomfortable about the idea of her boyfriend hugging other women, so is just naturally respecting the intimate boundaries in their relationship.

 

We also need to remember here that Beaver isn't talking about a brief hug, he specifically said *long hugs*, which to many romantic people are much more intimate than your regular 'grab and squeeze' goodbye hug. I don't even count 'long hugs' as hugs, I count them as a snuggle which is veeeeeery intimate (for me, and many other romantic people). I personally feel that some of the hostility (towards this idea) in this thread is a little misplaced just because we are talking about quite a special act that romantic monogamous people often do prefer to reserve for each other out of respect for the intimate boundaries of their relationship.  For me, a 'long hug' is akin to walking in hand in hand (you'd do it with your child or your romantic partner, but not the average friend due to the intimacy levels). I know many romantic monogamous people would see this in the same light as me. :)

I did and I don't understand how is that a thing. Like, touching breasts? Kinda sounds like a stretch to me.

I personally don't see "long hugs" this way. You may "long hug" a friend you haven't seen for a long time. And I'm not by any means poly.

Sorry, as a person in a quite romantic relationship, I don't see the big deal about it.

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57 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

But what's the deal about hugging? It's a normal thing friends do, at least in my country. If she wanted to hug her friend, but then her boyfriend said no, it's definitely jealousy.

She’s okay with hugging me, it’s just that her boyfriend wouldn’t want her to. Based on what @FictoVore. said about monogamy and how the attraction feeds into having the exclusive hugging, me hugging her would erode her boyfriend’s attraction and could strongly hinder their relationship.

 

I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that he is exhibiting any controlling behavior or jealousy. It could just be that he is hardcore monogamous, and I’ll respect that.

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"me hugging her would erode her boyfriend’s attraction" I am sorry but this ludicrous. Beyond ludicrous. Erode her attraction? God give me strength!

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23 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

I did and I don't understand how is that a thing. Like, touching breasts? Kinda sounds like a stretch to me.

I personally don't see "long hugs" this way. You may "long hug" a friend you haven't seen for a long time. And I'm not by any means poly.

Sorry, as a person in a quite romantic relationship, I don't see the big deal about it

I personally agree with how you feel that hugs shouldn’t be that big of a deal, but as @FictoVore. explained, not everyone experiences attraction the same. You and I would both feel happy for a partner enjoying a close hug or cuddle with someone else, but not everyone is like that and so I will respect my friend’s boyfriend’s boundaries. I can always find someone’s else to be a cuddle buddy (although easier said than done).

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4 minutes ago, Solovei said:

"me hugging her would erode her boyfriend’s attraction" I am sorry but this ludicrous. Beyond ludicrous. Erode her attraction? God give me strength!

It would make her boyfriend uncomfortable. Therefore it's no longer ludicrous! :)

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3 minutes ago, Solovei said:

"me hugging her would erode her boyfriend’s attraction" I am sorry but this ludicrous. Beyond ludicrous. Erode her attraction? God give me strength!

It could, if he’s “hardcore monogamous”. Go read what @FictoVore. said about her monogamous relationship.

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39 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

I did and I don't understand how is that a thing. Like, touching breasts? Kinda sounds like a stretch to me.

I personally don't see "long hugs" this way. You may "long hug" a friend you haven't seen for a long time. And I'm not by any means poly.

Sorry, as a person in a quite romantic relationship, I don't see the big deal about it.

The breast thing was just an example of why it may be uncomfortable for her boyfriend. Generally, when you hug a woman for a long time (like, snuggles), her breasts squish against your body in some way which can be very arousing and sensual for some people. If it's arousing for her boyfriend and he enjoys that as part of their intimacy together, he may feel very uncomfortable about the idea of her pressing her body against other men for any length of time, because it's 'his' thing. Like, foot massages are arousing for my partner, so he doesn't want anyone else to touch my feet because it's 'his special thing' and it would feel like someone is taking 'his thing that he enjoys intimately with me' if I let someone else touch my feet. He would stop wanting it and may even start becoming a bit repulsed by it, because he would know someone else had been 'down there' and when you're deeply monogamous, that sort of thing can be really, really painful.

 

You don't have to really 'get' it personally to understand why someone might personally feel this way though, I'd think? Just because you don't experience this sort of thing doesn't mean other people don't. I mean, some people are fine with their partner french kissing other people naked (ie a poly person would be okay with that) but you as someone who isn't poly probably are absolutely not okay with that, right? it's just different personal preferences for different people.

 

And if you say 'no I'd be fine with my romantic partner having sexual intimacy and intimate convos etc with other people' then I'd say you possibly are poly without knowing it, and maybe that's why you can't see it from the monogamous perspective? :o 

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7 minutes ago, Beaver Boy said:

It could, if he’s “hardcore monogamous”. Go read what @FictoVore. said about her monogamous relationship.

I would feel less attracted to my partner, well, no, I wouldn't be able to continue a relationship with him, if he actively wanted to be hugging other women for pleasure. I couldn't want to be with him if he wanted ME to hug other people for pleasure either. However, not everyone is as extreme as us, BUT that doesn't change the fact that even people with 'regular monogamy' can be uncomfortable with the idea of their partner having long hugs with other people as I explained in my other posts. You seem to understand what I'm saying though and it's your thread so that's all that's really important here. :)

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Telecaster68

Surely her bodily autonomy to hug who she likes should be respected? 

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2 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

And if you say 'no I'd be fine with my romantic partner having sexual intimacy and intimate convos etc with other people' then I'd say you possibly are poly without knowing it, and maybe that's why you can't see it from the monogamous perspective? :o 

I'm more than 100% monogamous. I don't count hugs as sexual intimacy. 

I reckon, that's because my romantic feelings are somewhat learned.

I never experienced anything you listed even though people tend to give me gorilla grips and even lift me up due to my height.

I see it as trust issues, not monogamous thing

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Just now, Telecaster68 said:

Surely her bodily autonomy to hug who she likes should be respected? 

I was the one who wanted to hug her. She’s okay with hugging me, but she doesn’t have a strong desire to hug me. Her boyfriend’s monogamy/boundaries need respected.

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Telecaster68

Speaking as a straight, sexual male, I'd say he's insecure and possessive and needs to get over himself. 

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Speaking as a straight, sexual male, I'd say he's insecure and possessive and needs to get over himself. 

Couldn't agree more

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Speaking as a straight, sexual male, I'd say he's insecure and possessive and needs to get over himself. 

I don’t know him at all, so I’m not about to jump to that conclusion. Please read what @FictoVore. said about monogamous relationships.

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Telecaster68

I understand monogamy fine thanks. If  he can't understand the difference between hugging a friend and potential infidelity, he has some kind of control issues or cognitive impairment. I know AVEN likes to say everything's fine and valid, but really, some things are just dick moves. 

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