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Getting Left Behind


Orianaro

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Okay so this is for aromantics and the like specifically, I guess I just feel like as I get older I'm going to get kinda left in the dust. So the thing is, I want to be emotionally close to someone and essentially have someone with me for life: marry my best friend kinda thing. I want to have someone that I can just say "let's go visit Australia" and we go do that, sorta like a soul mate but not romantically. And I guess I feel like it'll take a veritable miracle for that kinda thing to happen: unless I run into another aromantic who I really hit it off with and we kinda agree to present ourselves as being in a romantic relationship. Or someone likes me romantically and is cool with a weird arrangement. Basically, I want to just have a default partner to do stuff with. (Otherwise I would probably just hide with a book for the rest of my life.) I don't know if that makes sense... it's actually what I always assumed marriage was for, I never really understood that there was anything beyond "best friend of (generally) the opposite gender" which then promptly made me wonder why you didn't just marry your best friend of the same gender and basically got my best friend at the time to agree to live in a house with me when we were older. (We were young, shush.) 

 

I guess I just get a bit of a doomy feeling, knowing that someday all of my friends will end up in relationships or married and suddenly, I won't be near them or probably very high on their priority list. It's just lonely. Does anyone else ever feel this way, or does the solitude not really bother you?

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I can relate to fearing getting left behind. For me, it's when you can't be friends anymore because they have a romantic partner or I can't get much physical contact with someone I'm sensually attracted to because they're in a romantic relationship. I feel like I can only see the "tip of the iceberg" at the moment, since I have only recently considered myself to be aromantic.

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I can relate to being sad or worried about being alone in the future especially as I’m so awkward I typically mess up properly explaining myself to my squishes or crushes when they approach me 😟🤕

Recently though I accepted who I am and the way I can show love - even if most people wouldn’t be up for it or at least most the people I’ve met haven’t been open to it. 

 

 I guess I kept trying to find solid friends here because I was so tired of being alone irl. 

& then one day someone accepted me as their QPR partner and I had many happy tears. 

 

I say all of this to encourage you both not to give up or feel it’s impossible to find a partner to walk through life with. 

 

I think theres someone for each person out there 💚🍀

 

*fist bumps or hugs* :ph34r:

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EmotionalAndroid

This has always been a big fear of mine as well. I'm a highly dependent person and I found that I really need someone with me so I don't get stuck in my own head all the time. I do really want to spend my life with someone, like a best friend. Recently I've been wondering if I'm aromantic or not because I realize I DO want to have a life partner. I just don't understand romance, so I don't know if that means I'm romantic or what.

 

Anyway, I do get really sad about this sometimes because besides being aromantic( quite possibly?) and definitely ace, I am also autistic and don't understand social relationships at all. As such, I haven't had friends outside of my family for over 12 years.

 

I'm trying to stop worrying and keep faith, though. I know God has a plan for me, and I just have to stop hiding away and start interacting with people. My QPP is out there, and I just need to find them.

 

 

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Mezzo Forte

I feel you. :(

 

In some respects, I at least have people like my twin sister who know how to make everyone in a group feel welcomed, even when romantic partners are mixed into the fray. Heck, I've never once felt like a third wheel around my sis and her partner.

 

That said, I've learned just how intense my platonic feelings can get, and it's to the point that I would genuinely want a platonic partner for the kinds of things you described, among other things. In a way, I had that sort of partner in crime, who was always down to do whatever random thing that popped into our heads. He's the only person I've ever met who doesn't drain my social stamina. He's the best roommate I've ever had. He's my dearest friend I've ever had. Only problem is that life is pushing us in different directions and we won't be living near each other again for a long time, if ever. Plus, he's straight, so I can't on a good conscience ask him to even be my platonic partner. I wouldn't want to risk (1) complicating his future romantic endeavors or (2) have him risk becoming a target of homophobia for the sake of my overly-tactile ass. (Don't think he's the sort who'd want to label our bond as anything other than close friendship anyways.) While he was good about maintaining our friendship me last time he was in a romantic relationship, I'm a bit spoiled by our one-on-one dynamic now. I dream of the two of us getting tenured working at the same university, constantly trolling each other and our students as we have a good laugh and scare everyone with our pitch-black humor. :lol:

 

It sucks though, because good luck finding someone who is (1) aro/ace, (2) able to satisfy my intellectual needs, which means they likely need to be a fellow music scholar, (3) able to satisfy my emotional needs, (4) not drain my social stamina, (5) be compatible as roommates, (6) be on the same page about tactile needs, and (7) based on my aesthetic/platonic/sensual attraction patterns, likely need to be a man. That's not the kind of person you just stumble upon by accident. That said, this sort of realization is still somewhat fresh, and I still need to process everything.

 

Part of why I want to work in a university is so I can be constantly surrounded by fellow scholars and people who are super passionate about their craft. Based on what my mentors have told me, that's actually a big reason why many of them enjoy their jobs so much, so I at least know what I'm looking for is reasonable in that regard. I just hope that I can maintain the deep bonds I have now and possibly have a platonic partner in my life too.

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On 10/03/2018 at 1:15 AM, Orianaro said:

So the thing is, I want to be emotionally close to someone and essentially have someone with me for life: marry my best friend kinda thing. I want to have someone that I can just say "let's go visit Australia" and we go do that, sorta like a soul mate but not romantically.

Pretty much exactly my ideal scenario too. Having someone who you see often (maybe live with too) who you can do a lot of the things that people in romantic relationships do (going to restaurants, cinema, on holiday with, etc) but just as really good friends. There's probably quite a few people out there who do these things by themselves and are happy but that doesn't work for me, so there's a tonne of stuff I'd like to do but need the right person to do it with. Seems like an almost impossible task, particular since I can probably count the number of female friends I have on one hand without even considering sexuality and such, but who knows, maybe something will happen eventually.

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Galactic Turtle

It's a thought that creeps in the back of my mind. I don't mind being alone. I actually enjoy interacting via call or text with friends/family as it is less stress on me than always meeting face to face. I do fear I might, for whatever reason, become lonely. Still, the thought of a life partner makes me uneasy.

 

I like being around people with ambition and a love for their work or study. Double points if we have fandom in common. I imagine I'll meet all sorts of folks as I go through life and spend meaningful time with them as friends.

 

I don't have a good relationship with my sister. After my parents die I can't say how much a role family will play in my life. To prepare I'm teaching myself to look internally to placate my concerns instead of confiding in people when I'm torn about something.

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On 3/9/2018 at 10:36 PM, Mezzo Forte said:

Plus, he's straight, so I can't on a good conscience ask him to even be my platonic partner. I wouldn't want to risk (1) complicating his future romantic endeavors or (2) have him risk becoming a target of homophobia for the sake of my overly-tactile ass.

I completely agree with that. I've kind of come to a decision myself that if I was going to have this kind of relationship with someone, it would be easiest to present it to the rest of the world as just a classic romantic relationship. At which point, it's a lot easier for it to look heterosexual, because as someone who isn't homosexual (since I'm not even sexual...) I don't really want to get judged and bothered by other people for that just because I don't want to have to explain the complicated situation to every homophobic person I come across. (Though if they're homophobic, they're unlikely to be cool with ace or aro people either...) At the same time, two very close girls are often passed off as adorably good friends, whereas two guys who hang out like that are a lot faster to receive feedback. 

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Mezzo Forte
22 minutes ago, Orianaro said:

I completely agree with that. I've kind of come to a decision myself that if I was going to have this kind of relationship with someone, it would be easiest to present it to the rest of the world as just a classic romantic relationship. At which point, it's a lot easier for it to look heterosexual, because as someone who isn't homosexual (since I'm not even sexual...) I don't really want to get judged and bothered by other people for that just because I don't want to have to explain the complicated situation to every homophobic person I come across. (Though if they're homophobic, they're unlikely to be cool with ace or aro people either...) At the same time, two very close girls are often passed off as adorably good friends, whereas two guys who hang out like that are a lot faster to receive feedback. 

I know how you feel about just letting others assume it's a romantic relationship. I don't think I'd care about the outside perceptions so long as the partner was cool with that too and wasn't expecting me to be romantic/sexual. The most inconspicuous route would be if I found a woman partner, yet I've only felt these deep bonds with other men so far. (There are women in my life who are dear to me, but the bond is just different.)

 

In some ways, transition made my close bonds with straight men more liberating, because I can feel myself freed from the romantic pressures I once faced, which has let me really drop my guard in my deep friendships. On the other hand though, like you've mentioned, the outside eyes are far more skeptical of male intimacy. While I'm generally straight-passing, people only ever ask me if I'm gay (or assume as such) after they hear the way I talk about my male friends. (Wouldn't be surprised if anyone got suspicious about my friendship with my dear friend either.) God forbid if anyone saw how tactile I can get when I'm inebriated. :lol:

 

Platonic touch is typically harder to find when you're read as male. Hugs became handshakes as I transitioned, especially among fellow men. I deeply resent how much male touch is assumed inherently sexual, especially because the only way I was able to get this comfortable with touch was through medical/social transition. What sucks even more is the expectation for men to only find emotional intimacy in romantic relationships, and I refuse to meet that expectation.

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That's probably something I'll have to deal with all throughout life. Even when I was 11, I had a friend ghost me for cute boys. Hopefully I can find friends who value platonic love and won't ditch me forever, lol!

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4 minutes ago, Mezzo Forte said:

I know how you feel about just letting others assume it's a romantic relationship. I don't think I'd care about the outside perceptions so long as the partner was cool with that too and wasn't expecting me to be romantic/sexual. The most inconspicuous route would be if I found a woman partner, yet I've only felt these deep bonds with other men so far. (There are women in my life who are dear to me, but the bond is just different.)

 

In some ways, transition made my close bonds with straight men more liberating, because I can feel myself freed from the romantic pressures I once faced, which has let me really drop my guard in my deep friendships. On the other hand though, like you've mentioned, the outside eyes are far more skeptical of male intimacy. While I'm generally straight-passing, people only ever ask me if I'm gay (or assume as such) after they hear the way I talk about my male friends. (Wouldn't be surprised if anyone got suspicious about my friendship with my dear friend either.) God forbid if anyone saw how tactile I can get when I'm inebriated. :lol:

 

Platonic touch is typically harder to find when you're read as male. Hugs became handshakes as I transitioned, especially among fellow men. I deeply resent how much male touch is assumed inherently sexual, especially because the only way I was able to get this comfortable with touch was through medical/social transition. What sucks even more is the expectation for men to only find emotional intimacy in romantic relationships, and I refuse to meet that expectation.

To the first bolded section, I've actually slowly started to notice the exact same thing, in that I develop a different bond with guys rather than girls and I find that the hetero bond tends to be stronger/I'm more inclined towards a relationship like I've been describing. I also wonder if that's partly because I can keep a girl around with that kind of bond and no one will ever think twice about it. In fact, it's shockingly common. So it could almost be a case of not being able to have something as easily, as so those bonds inherently become more special, or just that I've had to do more work, care and awareness to reach whatever balanced point we're at and so once again, it feels more unique because more consideration had to get put into the relationship. Even so, it could still simply be a basic preference.

 

To the second bolded point, I hadn't really thought of that yet. But wow, that's so true. You just aren't allowed to be openly emotional, and that's really sad. Girls can easily make huge support networks to cry with and discuss the most intimate topics with, and for a guy that's close to impossible. I'm glad you're doing your own thing though :) It's a stupid expectation to adhere to if it doesn't suit your needs.

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9 minutes ago, Orianaro said:

To the first bolded section, I've actually slowly started to notice the exact same thing, in that I develop a different bond with guys rather than girls and I find that the hetero bond tends to be stronger/I'm more inclined towards a relationship like I've been describing. I also wonder if that's partly because I can keep a girl around with that kind of bond and no one will ever think twice about it. In fact, it's shockingly common. So it could almost be a case of not being able to have something as easily, as so those bonds inherently become more special, or just that I've had to do more work, care and awareness to reach whatever balanced point we're at and so once again, it feels more unique because more consideration had to get put into the relationship. Even so, it could still simply be a basic preference.

 

To the second bolded point, I hadn't really thought of that yet. But wow, that's so true. You just aren't allowed to be openly emotional, and that's really sad. Girls can easily make huge support networks to cry with and discuss the most intimate topics with, and for a guy that's close to impossible. I'm glad you're doing your own thing though :) It's a stupid expectation to adhere to if it doesn't suit your needs.

Now I feel really really bad for telling my guy friend to stop telling me about his relationship drama... maybe he didn't have antone else to complain to! 

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1 minute ago, StormySky said:

Now I feel really really bad for telling my guy friend to stop telling me about his relationship drama... maybe he didn't have antone else to complain to! 

Well people don't normally feel honored by people complaining to them, so its easy to get annoyed at :) Especially if its something that you by default don't understand or have little interest in :P

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Mezzo Forte
1 hour ago, Orianaro said:

To the first bolded section, I've actually slowly started to notice the exact same thing, in that I develop a different bond with guys rather than girls and I find that the hetero bond tends to be stronger/I'm more inclined towards a relationship like I've been describing. I also wonder if that's partly because I can keep a girl around with that kind of bond and no one will ever think twice about it. In fact, it's shockingly common. So it could almost be a case of not being able to have something as easily, as so those bonds inherently become more special, or just that I've had to do more work, care and awareness to reach whatever balanced point we're at and so once again, it feels more unique because more consideration had to get put into the relationship. Even so, it could still simply be a basic preference.

 

To the second bolded point, I hadn't really thought of that yet. But wow, that's so true. You just aren't allowed to be openly emotional, and that's really sad. Girls can easily make huge support networks to cry with and discuss the most intimate topics with, and for a guy that's close to impossible. I'm glad you're doing your own thing though :) It's a stupid expectation to adhere to if it doesn't suit your needs.

I totally get that external aspect to the sort of man/woman social dynamic. Felt it a lot myself before I transitioned actually, and I did date a few straight guy friends back in high school because I didn't want to look like I was "friendzoning" anyone. (Hence why I can let my guard down a lot more around straight men now.) It's weird, because I sometimes wonder if I was "conditioned" to like men during my formative years, and I still feel more pressure to be into men than women, even though the world currently gives me the opposite pressure, especially because everyone assumes I'm straight. (Apparently, a fair amount of people were assuming me a lesbian some time before I came out as trans too. Don't blame them based on my unsuccessful relationships with men and how masculine my appearance started to skew over time. :lol:) Regardless of those pressures, I've experienced firsthand that sensation of knowing that I'm just not attracted to some people in the same way I am others, especially in regards to touch, and I'm very distinctly drawn to men.

 

Toxic masculinity is definitely a thing, and I definitely do what I can to fight against it for my own mental health. There's a lot of pressure for men to be stoic and unemotional, and I internalized those expectations before I even knew I was trans. Testosterone already makes a lot of emotions harder to externalize even when you've been raised with healthier ways to cope with emotion, so the pressure to only reveal emotion to a romantic partner only makes matters worse. I think it makes people equate any emotional intimacy with romance/sex with men, which is why emotional intimacy between men is seen as gay (heck, even the term "bromance" for a platonic bond still implies romantic undertones,) and why men mistake emotional intimacy with women as the green light for a romantic relationship while feeling entitled to said relationship.

 

(Obviously, shitty masculine social pressures don't undo the shitty feminine social pressures out there, so please don't take my lack of commentary on those matters as an implication that they don't exist or are less important.)

 

That said, I've found that it's healthiest to actively fight those shitty cultural expectations. I'm unapologetic when I speak of my friendships and what they mean to me, even when it makes people suspect me gay. I refuse to make my voice less expressive to make it sound more masculine. I'm also trying to get better about reaching out when I'm genuinely emotionally hurting and not being quite so flighty when people come to me with their pain. Emotional intimacy is important to me, and I really hope I can build the right support network as I grow older. I'm already at the age where friends and peers are getting married left and right. Thankfully, most people who pursue the upper levels of academia tend to be a bit quirky, so I at least don't have to deal with quite as much judgement in that regard because of my line of work. :P

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13 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

I totally get that external aspect to the sort of man/woman social dynamic. Felt it a lot myself before I transitioned actually, and I did date a few straight guy friends back in high school because I didn't want to look like I was "friendzoning" anyone. (Hence why I can let my guard down a lot more around straight men now.) It's weird, because I sometimes wonder if I was "conditioned" to like men during my formative years, and I still feel more pressure to be into men than women, even though the world currently gives me the opposite pressure, especially because everyone assumes I'm straight. (Apparently, a fair amount of people were assuming me a lesbian some time before I came out as trans too. Don't blame them based on my unsuccessful relationships with men and how masculine my appearance started to skew over time. :lol:) Regardless of those pressures, I've experienced firsthand that sensation of knowing that I'm just not attracted to some people in the same way I am others, especially in regards to touch, and I'm very distinctly drawn to men.

 

Toxic masculinity is definitely a thing, and I definitely do what I can to fight against it for my own mental health. There's a lot of pressure for men to be stoic and unemotional, and I internalized those expectations before I even knew I was trans. Testosterone already makes a lot of emotions harder to externalize even when you've been raised with healthier ways to cope with emotion, so the pressure to only reveal emotion to a romantic partner only makes matters worse. I think it makes people equate any emotional intimacy with romance/sex with men, which is why emotional intimacy between men is seen as gay (heck, even the term "bromance" for a platonic bond still implies romantic undertones,) and why men mistake emotional intimacy with women as the green light for a romantic relationship while feeling entitled to said relationship.

 

(Obviously, shitty masculine social pressures don't undo the shitty feminine social pressures out there, so please don't take my lack of commentary on those matters as an implication that they don't exist or are less important.)

 

That said, I've found that it's healthiest to actively fight those shitty cultural expectations. I'm unapologetic when I speak of my friendships and what they mean to me, even when it makes people suspect me gay. I refuse to make my voice less expressive to make it sound more masculine. I'm also trying to get better about reaching out when I'm genuinely emotionally hurting and not being quite so flighty when people come to me with their pain. Emotional intimacy is important to me, and I really hope I can build the right support network as I grow older. I'm already at the age where friends and peers are getting married left and right. Thankfully, most people who pursue the upper levels of academia tend to be a bit quirky, so I at least don't have to deal with quite as much judgement in that regard because of my line of work. :P

(Once again going by bolded sections.) The "conditioning" part is honestly incredibly interesting: you've gotten to experience the pressures of both genders, and so I wonder if that's a common thing for inclinations or expectations to carry over from earlier years. I wonder if that's a shared thing, for other kinds of pressure too, and also for your unique situation. (Though I imagine finding another trans, aro & ace person to get an opinion of this on would be rather difficult...) 

 

I've definitely seen this second one before, where as soon as a girl has an emotional moment with a guy, they immediately feel like that's their cue that there's romance. Which is a little sad, because I feel like those are the people who have such an issue with accepting being friend zoned. To a girl, that guy is just another of many that they've told a couple of things to, and yet to the guy its one of the first times they've ever had anyone confide in them emotionally and it just goes from there. I've always found it interesting how two heterosexual people of the opposite gender (though it would work with anyone who has the possibility of being attracted to each other, but this is particular to this situation) who share a dangerous experience together are more likely to fall in love. However, it's the guy who is even more likely to become romantically attracted to the girl than the other way around, even though that goes against our classic "damsel in distress" look of things. 

 

I'm not bothered :P Honestly, while girls are occasionally made fun of for being so emotional, I think everyone is just as emotional and girls are just given more acceptable opportunities to express and publicly cope with that. I've also largely managed to ignore or circumvent a lot of the other female pressures, partly due to my introverted nature that doesn't balance on those around me and also because I've likewise found a little corner of people who are more academically inclined. They tend to be very socially forgiving and often just straight up ignorant. Intelligent friends are honestly wonderful, the only thing that matters is your ability to contribute to their conversation, not your possibility as a barbie doll look-a-like. The musical environment can have a similar effect as well, I've found. (You seem to be musically inclined as well.) If you play well and care about what you're doing, then suddenly the chic french horn and the nerdy clarinet player are bonding over Hamilton. Musicians tend to be somewhat consumed by their work. (Random side note, I love how musicians just become their instrument. You don't tell the trumpet players to be quieter, you just tell the trumpets not to play blasstissimo. It's honestly great :P)

 

To the last paragraph just in general, that's awesome :) I think a lot of people forget how important emotional intimacy is outside of romantic relationships and in some ways, I think aromantic people are clued into that earlier as they slowly realize that no, they're going to have to find friends who will offer to them what romantic relationships are normally reserved for (beyond romance, obviously). Unfortunately I feel like a lot of people learn this the hard way when they break up only to fall apart without that other person in their life to lean on, having invested so much time and energy into that person and let their friends drift away. 

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It does on occasion come to mind that in the future my most devoted friend will have a girlfriend and a family and may not have time for our friendship anymore. 

Who knows maybe I'll meet someone that puts our platonic friendship above all else! Maybe I'm being selfish who the heck knows!

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Mezzo Forte
10 hours ago, Orianaro said:

(Once again going by bolded sections.) The "conditioning" part is honestly incredibly interesting: you've gotten to experience the pressures of both genders, and so I wonder if that's a common thing for inclinations or expectations to carry over from earlier years. I wonder if that's a shared thing, for other kinds of pressure too, and also for your unique situation. (Though I imagine finding another trans, aro & ace person to get an opinion of this on would be rather difficult...) 

If there's anywhere where I'd find fellow trans aro ace people, it's here, and I do know a few. :P Don't think any of them have mentioned the same feeling of being conditioned, but I do know of people who are "theoretically straight" in the same way I'd be "theoretically gay," so I at least know that my experience being drawn to a specific gender in ways other than romantic or sexual attraction isn't that strange. Honestly, it's not like I would be strongly conditioned that way either since my family was always very sincere about the unconditional love thing, and I knew they would accept me no matter my gender/orientation. Apparently, my parents both thought I was into women though, so the only conditioning I might have experienced would have come from outside the family unit.

 

11 hours ago, Orianaro said:

I'm not bothered :P Honestly, while girls are occasionally made fun of for being so emotional, I think everyone is just as emotional and girls are just given more acceptable opportunities to express and publicly cope with that. I've also largely managed to ignore or circumvent a lot of the other female pressures, partly due to my introverted nature that doesn't balance on those around me and also because I've likewise found a little corner of people who are more academically inclined. They tend to be very socially forgiving and often just straight up ignorant. Intelligent friends are honestly wonderful, the only thing that matters is your ability to contribute to their conversation, not your possibility as a barbie doll look-a-like. The musical environment can have a similar effect as well, I've found. (You seem to be musically inclined as well.) If you play well and care about what you're doing, then suddenly the chic french horn and the nerdy clarinet player are bonding over Hamilton. Musicians tend to be somewhat consumed by their work. (Random side note, I love how musicians just become their instrument. You don't tell the trumpet players to be quieter, you just tell the trumpets not to play blasstissimo. It's honestly great :P)

If there is one thing I can try to point out in regards to gender and emotions, hormones impact more than you might think. I used to cry so easily before I started taking testosterone that I had to very consciously avoid situations that could induce tears and/or basically dissociate from the whole situation to stay in control. On testosterone, I've had moments where I wanted to cry, but couldn't. That said, I actually have since had very rare moments of anger that, when expressed correctly, have led to the same exhaustion/catharsis I used to experience after crying. It's rather incredible actually, because before testosterone, my body didn't know how to process anger and just defaulted to crying. Not everyone responds to hormones the same ways, but hormones to impact proclivities more than some people realize.

 

I'm actually an adjunct music professor who is hoping to potentially start my third Master's degree (this time, a Master of Arts) and then start a PhD in the coming years, so my life already does revolve around music. :P My Master of Music was amazing for me socially, as that was when I discovered what it was like to be surrounded by music scholars. I love performers too, but I bond better with the performers who appreciate theory/musicology/etc. than those who don't.

 

At the moment, I'm becoming more and more of an ethnomusicologist, so I could probably ramble quite a bit if I started going off about the nuances of musician identity in the Western art scene. Still, being a percussionist makes that sort of identity even more interesting, especially because there's so many sub-identities that exist within the scene. Concert percussionists are expected to kind of do everything and exist separately from the drum set world. Heck, musical theater is kind of its own subset of drum set and concern percussion. Nonwestern percussion is a whole other world too. :P

 

(You know, I actually attended a seminar where I got to study with the percussionists who play on Broadway. Got to especially work with the guy who played percussion for the revival of Fiddler on the Roof at the time. Considering that the In the Heights percussionist did a masterclass that year, I wonder if that seminar will ever get Hamilton's drummer involved. :P)

 

PS, I love the term "blastissimo" :lol:

 

11 hours ago, Orianaro said:

To the last paragraph just in general, that's awesome :) I think a lot of people forget how important emotional intimacy is outside of romantic relationships and in some ways, I think aromantic people are clued into that earlier as they slowly realize that no, they're going to have to find friends who will offer to them what romantic relationships are normally reserved for (beyond romance, obviously). Unfortunately I feel like a lot of people learn this the hard way when they break up only to fall apart without that other person in their life to lean on, having invested so much time and energy into that person and let their friends drift away. 

A lot of people are trained to see friendship as lesser than romantic relationships, so people don't expect the same emotional intimacy out of what they see as "lesser" bonds. That's why I appreciate just how much my own family raised me to value friendship and familial bonds as something not inherently inferior to romance at all. The frustrating thing is finding other people who value platonic bonds the same way. My family constantly advises me to really hold onto my platonic bonds, to maintain friendships even as they become distant, which I appreciate. Maintaining bonds from a distance isn't always easy, but the deepest bonds are definitely worth the effort. :)

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@Mezzo Forte I wouldn't be surprised if my conditioning for the idea that I should live with/have a family in my later life is part of my Christian heritage. I've grown up in a Mennonite church which is thankfully very open to homosexual relationships (as is my immediate family) and the LGBTQ+ community in general. Unfortunately, I know other Christian friends who have been a little bent away from that which has essentially prevented me from explaining aromanticism or asexualism to anyone within my family or Christian circles. Much as my family would probably be accepting, at least some of them wouldn't be able to comprehend how that is a thing and would assume its something more like greyromanticism where "I'll find someone eventually." I see them treating this situation much the same as the extroverted members of my family are unable to grasp the idea of being an introvert, where you get energy from time alone and yes, you might not be talking to me but you are in the same room as me and therefore that is draining just by being aware of you. Alone time is not synonymous with "not talking" time. Some have yet to be able to adjust to that without continuous reminders... The idea of being aromantic would probably get an immediately positive reaction that is followed by continuous displays of not actually understanding it and treating it properly. 

 

I've never had a sense of satisfaction after being angry, really, but I see what you mean. Though I'm not much of a crier, either. I have rarely been in an instance where I have been entirely unable to stop or delay crying. I find the following really interesting though.

On 3/13/2018 at 1:12 AM, Mezzo Forte said:

It's rather incredible actually, because before testosterone, my body didn't know how to process anger and just defaulted to crying.

I guess I've just never felt that, though I've definitely seen it. If I'm angry, I start essentially debating until that runs out and then I just shut down and refuse to talk. Essentially, my initial response to anger is word vomit :P Though I'm very curious how you've dealt with anger since then, since the only other typical response I can think of is feeling an urge to punch things or otherwise cause destruction.

 

Music is amazing. I agree with you that people who actually take some time to appreciate the theory behind it tend to be much more invested in it and a little more interesting, though I've only truly gotten into music recently (well, more like 4 years ago) since I discovered the trumpet. Well, band in general has captured my attention almost obsessively. My best friend is also a percussionist, though she is definitely leaning more towards just the drum kit. She tends to despise anything to do with pitched percussion unless its timpani, mostly because she has very little experience with pitched instruments aside from bass clarinet which is mostly leger lines anyways... 

 

Hamilton, In the Heights and Fiddler on the Roof... all awesome, and aside from Hamilton, I've seen all as live performances (ranging from amateur to Stratford, if you're Canadian) I am now intensely jealous that you've met musicians behind those... :blink:

 

Blastissimo is a very common term in my band (school one, that is, I'm in others). Our theory is every extra letter (ppp, fff) just adds another "iss". Foritissississimo as an example. We also have a funny issue of more french horns then trumpets (4 to 3, which is arguably just two). 

 

Society's narrowing of acceptable places for emotional intimacy is certainly very irritating. And doesn't give me much hope to go off of, unfortunately. I've also found that emotional intimacy is often seen kind of unofficially as an exclusive thing, in that once you have one person to confide in, you don't really need anyone else. And its a thing that a lot of people seem to naturally do: its easy to forget to maintain a previous beneficial relationship when you have this newer, more convenient one, which is really where my issue with friends leaving me behind comes from. Because they have a romantic partner they can be intimately emotional with (and many other things), so they're more of a package deal. No point investing in a person you don't see as frequently and only get emotional comfort from if you have a person who offers you everything and is willing to follow you everywhere and make themselves convenient by living with you. It takes a lot of effort to be a secondary emotional comfort to a person, because they don't really see the connection as necessary anymore. Quite comparable to third wheeling... And it makes some sense: in order for both to be complete relationships, you have to tell both of them the same important things and repeat things that you maybe don't want to, or bring up issues that have just been made void by talking with the other person. And to tell your best friend all these things and not ever talk to your spouse would be a little odd and very lonely feeling for the spouse unless that was natural for that particular couple. (I don't know, that might be a more normal thing, but I can't imagine a relationship without that. But I mean, that's kind of why I'm here :P

 

Aromantics just don't have a comfortable place in society, or not a deep rooted one. If you're okay with removing yourself and having a changing circle of friends and no "romantic" relationships then you're pretty much set. But if you want to redefine a relationship or present a new idea, society just kind of turns you out of their doors and you just have to stumble around and see if you happen upon a niche relationship or understanding with someone. Or you dress in sheep's clothing and join the herd, but from stories I've read here of non-self-identified aros in relationships, those seem to end badly when someone expects something more that they don't understand or their love with the S/O is put into question. QPR relationships sound like lovely things, if only that was as easily recognizable as "BFF", we'd be all set. (That would honestly be very curious: you have your best friends, your boy/girlfriends, and your QPRs where the QPR kind of lands in between and can be a kind of substitute of a romantic relationship where you could marry your QPR. Honestly, that becoming a common term would be my ideal. I wonder how many people across AVEN/aromantics in general have been in QPRs, I've heard very few stories about them in general.)

 

(Oh no... these are getting longer and longer... I have a bad habit of making intensely long emails/posts/anything where I'm allowed to fully explain myself via typing :P)

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Mezzo Forte

@Orianaro, no worries about the message length. I tend to get long winded myself, though I can try to make this response smaller to keep things in check. We'll see how successfully my attempts are though. :P 

 

Always interesting how religious background can factor into your relationship with your orientations, especially as the surrounding culture establishes expectations form your future. I had a somewhat weird upbringing with religion, as my family took us to catholic mass on Sundays to appease the grandparents, but my dad's an atheist and my mom is a more generalized theist, and religion didn't really follow us into the household. 

 

In regards to anger, there's two routes it can go: either that anger sits in the pit of my stomach like a poison, or I find a harmless way to express it and get that nice catharsis. The times I got the catharsis, it was basically me cursing loudly or otherwise shit talking about my source of anger with a dear friend. That's actually a key difference between tears and anger for me: I prefer to cry alone, but share my anger. I can't use anger as a tool to hurt people and ever feel good about doing such a thing, so I feel best when I find more harmless ways to get those feelings out of my system.

 

Ah yes, pitched percussion is a bit daunting to percussionists who started on instruments like snare and set. My first instrument was clarinet, so I took to pitched percussion pretty quickly. (Honestly, a lot of people treat timpani more like quads/marching tenors than as an actual melodic instrument nowadays.) Somehow, I'm not shocked that you would be a trumpet yourself as you talk of blastissimo. :lol: I've always added the extra "-issi"s for every extra f or p in the dynamic, even in formal settings, as people pretty much get what you mean, even if a lot of people say "triple f" for example.

 

Can't say I'm from Canada, but I am considering moving up there for my next degree. A lot of the Broadway percussionists are quite chill, and lots of fun to work with. Loved seeing how the Fiddler pit all messed with each other. Got to meet far more Broadway percussionists than them too. We also had masterclasses with the people playing in Beautiful, On Your Feet, An American in Paris, Something Rotten (he was brilliantly hilarious too), plus a full-time Broadway sub, and I forget if there was more. It was a good time. :P I've met a lot of the percussionists I admire, and many of them are really pleasant people. When music consumes like 80% of your life, it's hard to not talk about the subject on a deeper intellectual level too, hence why I surround myself with music scholars as well as performers.

 

Man, support networks are so crucial. I don't believe any one person is supposed to satisfy 100% of your emotional/social/intellectual needs, and that's coming from someone who is often a package deal with my dear friend when we're around each other. There's honestly more safety in investing yourself in multiple bonds too, as you have someone to go to when another bond is strained for some reason. That said, some people struggle maintaining a lot of bonds at once, especially those who handle one-on-one interaction better than group situations.

 

Pretty sure you highlighted why people add the 'Q' to 'QPR' :P It's such a unique concept, and there's been times when I wanted to reject that notion of the QPR because I didn't want to risk devaluing my idea of friendship. The biggest thing I understand now is how valuable the sense of security that comes with commitment can be. I hear far more about people wanting QPRs than finding them, but they're not as unheard of as they may seem, and I hear a lot of talk about people in QPRs in different aro spaces I frequent.

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@Mezzo Forte Religion is definitely odd. I would consider myself Mennonite, so sometimes its almost like I have to do a bit of a double take when I hear or hear of Christians down talking LGBTQ+ anything. I don't hear that many, but it definitely leaves me unsettled when I do.

 

A generally interesting thing for the rest of this is, as I believe you're aware considering you commented on it, I'm now confirmed in a QPR. Which was one of the most incredible feelings ever. And while we're just the same as we were, having the knowledge of that makes it oddly different anyways. The especially funny part of it is that this topic started with me and a feeling of hopelessness and now with my QPP my feelings have been turned kind of upside down. My QPP is actually a romantic and vaguely questioning asexual (we're in a very non-sexual community of geeks, so it doesn't feel very important. Honestly, I agree with that. If I wasn't aromantic, I wouldn't have ever joined AVEN or considered it all that prominent.) In some ways, them being romantic still leaves "getting left behind" as perfectly relevant because they could end up in a romantic relationship someday. Which is where things get especially funny: my QPP is really more hyper-romantic, and so they have crushes on multiple people at once. (The hilarious part is that I'll often load them with questions about that in an effort to wrap my head around "romantic feelings", and they find it simply hilarious that I didn't see anything wrong with asking "But why do you like me?" to the first person who ever admitted to romantic feelings for me. When they couldn't respond satisfyingly, I decided they didn't really like me and forgot the whole thing.) However, they have a generally very pessimistic point of view on relationships, mostly because of their parents which was pretty much just a bad role model. They've had romantic experiences that have just generally ended weirdly, and they have no motivation to take any initiative for them. They see basically all romantic relationships as impermanent. Of course, they have no such premonitions with QPRs because they have no previous concept of that beyond me. They don't put end dates on platonic relationships, and so this is just a really emotionally intimate friendship. One of our preferred explanations of a QPR is a romantic relationship, just minus the romance. (Since that's what it looks like to everyone ese anyways...) Everything else is pretty much exactly the same: especially since confirmation, we've been kind of absorbed spending a lot of time together, discuss literally everything, and etc. In some ways, I think it's (and some QPRs in general, but I don't know any others personally) more stable than a romantic relationship, because every step in the relationship, like a friendship, has been based on trust and sharing and emotional connection, whereas romance is kind of like a skip card for a lot of that. Not always: I certainly know romantic relationships that have worked out and are perfectly happy and communicate well.

 

Anyways, I guess I mostly find the timing of everything as kind of ironic. QPR, for me, was the perfect answer to this. It doesn't necessarily mean my QPP won't end up in one or multiple relationships, but we've discussed it and they basically said that except in a very, very rare circumstance, QPRs and romantic relationships are somewhat mutually exclusive for most of the rest of the world. Even if the romantic partner understood the QPR, they've been trained by the rest of society that romantic relationships are at the hierarchy of everything, so they would treat it like they still had more of a say than I did. My QPP is generally against this, which is probably largely due to their impermanent view of romantic relationships (thus, why risk a stable QPR for an impermanent relationship?) which I am selfishly happy about... though I would never purposefully prevent them from a romantic relationship if they wanted it.

 

Support networks are awesome. Though perhaps my QPR began as us becoming a main factor of each other's support network, but I don't know where the sweet spot of balance is between the different people involved in your support network. Certainly, a relationship clearly lacks communication if you don't make up a decent portion of that, though what's ideal for everyone would be different.

 

On 3/17/2018 at 3:29 PM, Mezzo Forte said:

That's actually a key difference between tears and anger for me: I prefer to cry alone, but share my anger.

That's incredibly true for me too. Though honestly, if either emotion gets overwhelming to the point where I'm not sure if I trust myself to properly thinking through sharing it, I have a tendency to vent via writing. In general I love writing, so it feels natural.

 

I'm learning clarinet right now :) Honestly, it's been really slow in some aspects. My fourth finger on both hands doesn't bend on the last knuckle. It looks very odd when you look at my hands, though very few people in my life have noticed it without me pointing it out. However this means for the right hand in particular, covering the holes is a little annoying. It took me forever to be able to cover it consistently first try, I spent at least a month having to stop and play over high Ds my walking down to the note. Its the reason I dropped violin as soon as school would let me: because I can't crook that finger, there's a lot of stress on that finger because I'm playing the exact wrong way. Piano was actually my first instrument, and the only issue I had there was fourth finger + black keys. Because you're also not supposed to have flat fingers for piano... such a stupidly small thing, but its been such an annoyance. Honestly, it's probably why I took to trumpet so well: it's not stringed, it doesn't require (though it is preferred) to have perfectly bent fingers, and I don't have to cover holes. (Even recorder sucked.) Maybe I should learn percussion... that's the only other instrument I probably wouldn't face any issues with :P

 

Canada is lovely. As long as you're okay with snow, but I mean, just add maple syrup and its all good :P I was pleasantly amused by the "Is Canada even real" memes. I had a conversation with visiting Americans about our plastic bills, they were under the impression that they were more like credit cards. Broadway anyone would be awesome to meet someday, though I'm unlikely to go into music as a career, so my chances are already reduced...

 

The comment about risking devaluing your friendship is interesting. Before we really confirmed anything, it was very clearly a deeper and much different kind of friendship. My percussionist friend I'm practically attached to the hip with, but she was distinctly my "best friend" and my QPP was distinctly, well, QPP. Almost immediately after confirming it, it was like we had both finally gotten on the same page, and the discussion that has followed that basically opened the floodgates for admitting how much we care. It was a symbolic way to move forward. I'm not sure exactly why the effect (that we're still dealing with now) was so huge, but it's certainly changed a massive amount already. In good ways, if possibly very confusing for the people around us.

 

Its really interesting to look at this conversation having now joined that tiny fraction of people in a QPR. Honestly, I didn't expect the impact o be so huge, or it to feel so wonderful to be a "zucchini" :P It's very validating. It's unfortunate how much society has encouraged the erasure of platonic friendships as being important, and that they constantly promote romantic relationships as the ultimate goal. It's sad to watch, and in many ways, I wish QPR was a household term that was used more frequently by more than just aros and aces. I think people's unawareness of how deep platonic love can be means people can become desperate to not be single and alone, even while surrounded by friends with high potential for a more meaningful connection.

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