Marriage Counseling Questions...

[NapoliGirl]

My husband and I have been in counseling for just about 3 months now.  We  have been married for 25 years, where I have lived in celibacy for most of those years starting from day 1 of our marriage. I found the AVEN website by chance one day a few months ago while researching online, after going nearly 10 years without any physical intimacy at all, sexual AND minimal nonsexual contact; finally, everything made sense to me.  Our situation is so much like the situations I've been reading about here and I am finding great comfort in all of this, so thank you!!  Anyway, he has identified as an asexual and also has found this website to be helpful to him in gaining more understanding about himself.  But all that being said, I still harbor feelings of resentment towards him for not being his true self from the beginning before we were married. ( Before we got married we had some semblance of a sex life; he was inexperienced but took on the role of a "good student"! ) We have discussed this issue at length, ad nauseum, and he says that he wanted to build a life with me so much and that he was terrified I would  "find out the truth" about him, so he did what he needed to do to keep me happy and all that.  It all changed as soon as we tied the knot.  

 

Because of my anger and resentment issues, and because I felt he needed to appreciate and understand his role in it, I suggested counseling.  Also I thought it would be very helpful to me as well to acknowledge and understand my role in contributing to and in essence, endorsing the ongoing acceptance of the lack of intimacy in the marriage by my own actions/lack of actions.  There has been some progress as far as him coming to terms with his asexuality through our discussions between ourselves and with our counselor. We have both had individual sessions with the counselor, and according to him, during those sessions he has been forthright about why/how he has identified as an asexual.   

 

However, I am quite frustrated, because the things the counselor suggests appear to be merely "bandages for my hurts".  Don't get me wrong, they are not without some benefit or merit.  But I think they miss the real point.  Here are a few examples.....

 

1.  learn each other's love languages and use them to communicate/demonstrate your love for each other. I am not dismissing this kind of thing; it actually makes day to day life a bit more bearable in that it provides SOME connection.(ummmm........it is LOVE that has kept me in this marriage for nearly 30 years, I have kept emphasizing this to both him and the counselor; there is no LACK of love here!!  The huge void and true lack for me personally is the fact that my spouse never truly felt that physical need for sexual intimacy with me, he admits that when he looks at me he feels no desire or passion or anything of the sort. and this is not something we can "fix" or "change"). 

 

2.  prime time for husband in terms of random physical arousal is in the morning.....counselor suggests I use that to my advantage and get busy before we go about our day (ummm.....it's not about the physical deed but the desire, which is not how he is wired).  

 

3.  take time out to do special things with one another away from the kids, like dinners, dates, long weekend getaways, etc., in an effort to get in the mood.  (During the early years before kids, that was our primary form of connection, way back in our 20s and early 30s, never resulted in anything sexual, but me beating up myself about my own perceived deficiencies, surely there must be something wrong with me, I thought, if these special times together couldn't get things going between us.)

 

Perhaps I am being impatient, cynical, maybe narrow minded and somewhat jaded; but I feel that the counselor doesn't quite understand and/or accept the validity of the asexual orientation and its entire spectrum.  I believe that the counselor is trying to employ widely used and accepted methods applicable to low libido/disconnectedness of partners over time/staleness/"The Dead Bedroom" aspects of marriage (newsflash:  the bedroom has been dead since the start!!  I have only talked about this fact now with the counselor for THREE MONTHS already!!)   Do "X" to get things juiced up, wife will get the sex she wants, and it will all be ok. 

 

For me personally, what I need is something that can't be changed within him and each day I am getting better at acknowledging that very fact.  I have expressed this during sessions, that I am in counseling to get over the resentment, understand more about my role in all of this, forgive him and myself, accept what I can't change.  A huge part of the counseling is for him, and for him personally to come to terms with whatever he needs to, to understand more about  his role.  Very important goal here as well is for the both of us to come to some sort of mutual agreement as to the future of our marriage.  

 

So, whew, after all my ranting here, what I really want to get a handle on from anyone out there who is a professional counselor, or from those of you who have gone through or are going through counseling: 

is this the norm/usual approach

is that the lens through which marriage therapists view the dynamics of physical and sexual intimacy,

is there some other counselling option out there for us to explore that's a better fit for asexual/sexual partnerships,

are my expectations unrealistic, is it more productive for us to work on this ourselves? 

 

 AGGHHH!!

 

 

 

 

 

[Sally]

Wlecome to AVEN, Napoli Girl.  It sounds like the counselor simply doesn't understand that as an asexual, your husband does not experience any desire to have sex with any other person, and all the suggestions and practice in the world isn't going to change that.  He won't change his lack of desire for sex just as you won't change you're desire for sex and what it means to you.  Perhaps you need to explain that to your counselor very firmly.  Asexuality is such a new concept publicly that many counselors don't understand that it exists.  Good luck in achieving some understanding and the ability to continue having a loving marriage between you and your husband.  

[anamikanon]

4 hours ago, NapoliGirl said:

I still harbor feelings of resentment towards him for not being his true self from the beginning before we were married. ( Before we got married we had some semblance of a sex life; he was inexperienced but took on the role of a "good student"! ) We have discussed this issue at length, ad nauseum, and he says that he wanted to build a life with me so much and that he was terrified I would  "find out the truth" about him, so he did what he needed to do to keep me happy and all that.  It all changed as soon as we tied the knot.  

If he knew he was asexual and led you to believe otherwise - that he was inexperienced and wanted to learn, this amounts to conning you into the marriage intentionally, though I doubt it was as clear as all that for him then. My story is similar, except my partner really was inexperienced and he kept thinking that it would "work" at some point. He didn't really think he had a "problem" in the sex department, since he was able to have and enjoy sex, though not as intimacy and it was very erratic. He merely thought it was a matter of getting comfortable with a new phase in life.

 

However, you do need to talk this through with him. Explain how you feel and help him see that you are two people in a relationship with different sexual needs and a loving relationship would aim to nurture both to whatever extent possible without self-harm. As in, expecting himself to be traumatized but still offer sex is wrong, but if there are things he doesn't mind doing, he needs to stay in sight of the fact that he effectively promised you that he would be engaging in them with you and to at least attempt to meet you half way.

 

That said, it will never be a full and proper sexual relationship in the manner we experience it, and I think after 25 years, you know this, though you are feeling very bitter right now. I have moments when I rail at this scheme of things myself (see recent thread by me, for example), but at the end of the day, there is really no avoiding coming to terms with it or ending the relationship.

 

 

4 hours ago, NapoliGirl said:

Because of my anger and resentment issues, and because I felt he needed to appreciate and understand his role in it, I suggested counseling. 

I saw your examples and agree that it can be frustrating to have a counsellor who doesn't understand asexuality. I have two other views on this. One, if there is a distance between a couple, individual counselling can sometimes increase that distance by making one person feel validated where they stand and the other person feel dismissed. It may be useful to go together. Two, Regardless of how good the counsellor is at understanding asexuality, it will still serve as an important space for him to come to terms with himself, which is really more of an internal process AND being able to talk to someone about it.

 

Counselling need not all come from the same source and wise people with sensitive perspective and good ideas can serve as counsellors without a formal counselling relationship. For example, places like this forum, or if there is someone mature and wise in your life with whom you can discuss sexuality and relationships openly. Avoid people who think they know everything, but you actually feel like you didn't get a chance to be heard. It may not sound like a very big thing, but it improves your chances of finding someone who understands and who can talk you through what you are going through.

 

4 hours ago, NapoliGirl said:

prime time for husband in terms of random physical arousal is in the morning.....counselor suggests I use that to my advantage and get busy before we go about our day (ummm.....it's not about the physical deed but the desire, which is not how he is wired).  

For what it is worth, if you are actually trying to get your sex life back online, from personal experience I can say this is a pretty useful suggestion. Waking up well rested, a biological inclination to physical arousal and the stresses of the day not yet having reached and occupied the mind is all favorable to sex happening - at least to my partner.

 

To a large extent, the deed will have to replace desire to have a (semi/minimally/barely/majorly/whatever) working sex life. You will have to come to terms with the sexual desire not existing. Because it is what it is. You have to decide whether it is good enough for you and if not, make appropriate arrangements to meet your needs - whether moving out or considering another lover or continuing with celibacy or whatever.

 

In our relationship, I have learned to read his willingness and interest in my pleasure as sex. I have learned to accept the sexual act when he is aroused as something he willingly shares with me - and call it desire. That is how desire works for him. He desires me massively on an emotional level, cuddling level as intimacy, but sex is actually something mostly in his mind and not about a connection with me. He sees sex with me as me being the tool he uses to get off instead of erotica. I take pleasure in giving him a pleasurable experience anyway and see him choosing to share it with me rather than the erotica as him desiring me.

 

It is a choice to interpret things based on what is possible in our circumstances. It is not sexual desire as we feel it and if that is not good enough, I don't think you can make sex work, ever - unless he suddenly finds out he isn't asexual - which is sounding unlikely.

 

 

4 hours ago, NapoliGirl said:

I feel that the counselor doesn't quite understand and/or accept the validity of the asexual orientation and its entire spectrum.

This is possible. But counsellors are usually skilled at working with the perceptions and realities of other people, so if the counsellor is good, them not believing or understanding will not be a big handicap, since they will be working with your beliefs and understanding and not their own (this is actually the sign of someone who works with a very clean process without adding their own clutter). Only place where it may matter some is that not having personal insight, they may not be able to contribute as many ideas to your process.

 

4 hours ago, NapoliGirl said:

For me personally, what I need is something that can't be changed within him and each day I am getting better at acknowledging that very fact.  I have expressed this during sessions, that I am in counseling to get over the resentment, understand more about my role in all of this, forgive him and myself, accept what I can't change.

This won't happen overnight either. You have to accept that you will slip up and move on from when you slip up instead of spending a while flogging yourself for it. It isn't something that will cleanly resolve. There will be up days and down days. For both of you.

 

4 hours ago, NapoliGirl said:

are my expectations unrealistic, is it more productive for us to work on this ourselves? 

I don't know your expectations. I only know the situation as you described it. Developing clear expectations will help.

 

One thing is to have and communicate a clear cut outcome. How would you like this to be resolved? Learning to come to terms with celibacy? Finding some form of a sex life similar to what you had earlier before it stopped? Something else? It will help you take concrete steps towards a goal. Detail it. What is absolutely must? What can you do without? What requires him to participate? and so on.

 

Similarly for him. How would he like this to be resolved? Would he like to live sex free and doesn't want to compromise (it doesn't sound like it, if he spoke with the counsellor enough for them to come up with the idea of using physical arousal for sex as a possibility)? Would he like you to be sexually content, but doesn't know how to go about making it happen? Something else? He was able to have a sexual relationship before. Is he willing to consider it again with an interest toward your sexual needs in the relationship? If not, is he willing to try alternative ways to bring you sexual pleasure? Toys or masturbating you may still be fine (for my ace, it definitely is) even if he doesn't want to be touched sexually. It will get you off, with his involvement. You feel the closeness of climaxing in your partner's arms, he feels the closeness of caring for you. Not the same thing, but a workable hack, so to say.

 

If both of you have outcomes that can coexist, you can work towards them. Or you can start considering unilateral actions that may not include your husband. Like considering another lover if you are interested and he doesn't mind, or separating, if you can't take being left to figure it out for yourself, etc.

[NapoliGirl]

Thank you both for your insightful comments.  It is so very meaningful for me to get others' perspectives, from people who are living through similar situations.  It's going to be a long process I know, with so very much to consider.  Took me nearly 30 years to get to this point, lots of layers to peel off, I need to be patient with the entire process.