Weird Question

[Italophile]

It's been a while since I've been on here, and I've done a lot of growing since then.  I just started a new relationship with someone who is ace (he prefers that term over, "asexual," because he's still figuring out where on the spectrum he sits).

 

So, here's my thing: From the start, I've been very clear that it wasn't going to bother me at all if we never had sex.  It's also been more than 15 years since he had a romantic relationship, and I've wanted to be extra careful to make sure he doesn't feel pressured by my having way more relationship experience.  That all being said, he has initiated sex on a couple of occasions, saying that, while he only gets mild enjoyment out of the physical aspect, he enjoys the sensuality, the connection, and the vicarious enjoyment of my pleasure.

 

I've really enjoyed it, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this, and I keep circling back to worrying that I have somehow accidentally pressured him.  He understands that I'm a bit confused, and he insists that he does not feel pressured.

 

Has anyone else been on either side of this kind of sexual dynamic and could maybe explain this to me?  I believe him that he feels no obligation and that he is a willing participant, but I'm having trouble groking his feelings about sex, and it's fueling my Anxiety Brain.  I also feel like understanding better would help me be able to better address what he enjoys.

 

We've talked about all of this, but between the fact that his realization that he's ace is pretty recent and still to a certain extent in process, and his inexperience relationally and sexually, I'm not sure that he has a better way to explain than he already has, and I don't think it's fair or useful to have him tell me the same things repeatedly.  Can anyone help me wrap my brain around this so I can be a better (and less guilty-feeling) partner?  I realize this is the opposite question of what usually happens on this forum.

[Guest]

Hi there, I almost said 'welcome to AVEN', then realized you've been here longer than I have, haha

 

I would wonder if he is maybe confused around some of the reasons sexual people may desire partnered sexual intimacy, if he is actively initiating it for his own pleasure (and the pleasure he gets from your own pleasure of course). I've met a lot of people here now who think something like 'sexual people look at someone hot, get horny, and want sex with that person. I don't get horny when I look at my partner so I'm asexual, even though I do enjoy aspects of sexual intimacy with them and would be unhappy without being able to have that contact at least sometimes'' However obviously the issue here is that they have a misconception about sexual motivation. Yes SOME sexual people 'look at hot people and get horny', but not all people are like that. 'Looks' aren't even all that important for some sexual people, and it's the intimacy and bonding of sex that they enjoy far more than the physical sensations, or they just find sex pleasurable in a way masturbating alone is not, if that makes sense? I've also met people who identify as asexual because it's the emotional aspects of sex they enjoy but they don't care about the physical part as much. Again, there are sexual people (myself included) who are like that. When I worked at a brothel, some men would even pay a lot of money JUST to give the girls oral sex, they had no interest in themselves being stimulated, because it was the EMOTIONAL aspect of it, and of pleasing someone else, that was important to them.

 

So, in cases like your boyfriend's, I often wonder if someone is identifying as asexual based more on a misunderstanding of just how varied 'regular' sexuality and sexual motivations can really be? Asexuals really don't have any desire for partnered sexual intimacy, and have a preference *not* to have partnered sex - if this wasn't the case there obviously wouldn't really be a point in the label. I am not saying your partner isn't asexual if that's how he wants to identify, however, if I was his partner I personally would secretly be of the opinion that he may just be a bit confused about regular sexual motivations and accept him that way, because trying to explain that to him could be upsetting or cause an argument? He may also have a very low libido, or low 'drive' is a better term, meaning he has no desire for that type of intimacy a lot of the time, but when he does get that desire he would prefer to connect sexually with you than NOT connect sexually with you, because when the 'drive' is up, you (you as in him) do start actively desiring that emotional and sensual bonding even if for you, the physical aspects aren't as important.

 

Does this help at all or have I just made things more confusing?

 

[MrDane]

“Adress what he enjoys”. ...perhaps ‘enjoy’ is not the correct term. What is he okay with doing. To me, it helped to make a shift in how I/she focus on the act. I get help with a sexual massage. Sometimes she enjoys giving. Sometimes she is okay with it. Sometimes she is even okay with getting 

[AcornCarvings]

It sounds like he might like some aspects of sex, and that is ok. I'd just make sure you are super consentful, and make sure you explicitly tell him regularly that it is ok not to want to do stuff, and you'll only want to do stuff if he does.

[AcornCarvings]

Some ace people do enjoy some sex, and that doesn't make them less ace and doesn't mean that they are being coerced by their partner(s). It just means you need to be more cautious to make sure there is no pressure, and it sounds like you are doing that pretty well already! Communication is the essence of ace relationships, in my opinion 

[Italophile]

This is all interesting information, so thank you all.  FictoVore, I get what you're saying and that might be the case.  Your experience from working at a brothel is really interesting!  I also know that he hasn't really been bothered by not having sex for like...17 years I think?  He told me that he's thought of himself as possibly autochorissexual.  Which still leaves me confused.  I think I've been finding myself thinking what you are thinking, and I just really want to find a framework that feels like it isn't in conflict with how he sees himself.

 

AcornCarvings, I'm definitely checking in, to the point that I think it might be getting annoying.  I know I said at least once that I don't want him to think that my feelings for him are contingent upon sex.

 

I'm autistic, and it's really hard for me when I don't understand something, and I keep thinking that if I can figure it out, I'll have a better sense for where boundaries might be.

[anamikanon]

7 hours ago, Italophile said:

It's been a while since I've been on here, and I've done a lot of growing since then.  I just started a new relationship with someone who is ace (he prefers that term over, "asexual," because he's still figuring out where on the spectrum he sits).

Our situation is very similar, except it has been 4 years.

 

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So, here's my thing: From the start, I've been very clear that it wasn't going to bother me at all if we never had sex.  It's also been more than 15 years since he had a romantic relationship, and I've wanted to be extra careful to make sure he doesn't feel pressured by my having way more relationship experience.  That all being said, he has initiated sex on a couple of occasions, saying that, while he only gets mild enjoyment out of the physical aspect, he enjoys the sensuality, the connection, and the vicarious enjoyment of my pleasure.

This is what my partner says and I have seen him enjoy it. There is no faking that. So I believe him.

 

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I've really enjoyed it, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this, and I keep circling back to worrying that I have somehow accidentally pressured him.  He understands that I'm a bit confused, and he insists that he does not feel pressured.

I still can have trouble wrapping my head around it or it suddenly sometimes feels very hard and so on. From my end, the sex has always felt slightly.... off. Like there was some mismatch you can't put your finger on even when things go well. That is because - at least for my partner - the sexual experience isn't actually about a partner much. The best he has described it is "Some people prefer porn, I prefer erotica, when I am with you, I use you for my sexual pleasure" - it doesn't really feel like a connection to him, the way it does to us, so something or the other can keep seeming... odd. Like there is 2 and 2, but it may not always total up to 4. At least it has often made me worry that he may not be into it totally or that I am somehow pressuring him into it, etc and that is why he doesn't seem to be "into" it or fully involved... but it is the nature of the relationship. It is like that only.

 

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Has anyone else been on either side of this kind of sexual dynamic and could maybe explain this to me?  I believe him that he feels no obligation and that he is a willing participant, but I'm having trouble groking his feelings about sex, and it's fueling my Anxiety Brain.  I also feel like understanding better would help me be able to better address what he enjoys.

 

We've talked about all of this, but between the fact that his realization that he's ace is pretty recent and still to a certain extent in process, and his inexperience relationally and sexually, I'm not sure that he has a better way to explain than he already has, and I don't think it's fair or useful to have him tell me the same things repeatedly.  Can anyone help me wrap my brain around this so I can be a better (and less guilty-feeling) partner?  I realize this is the opposite question of what usually happens on this forum.

Over the years, I've come to see it as the nature of the relationship. It is how it is. I have sort of acclimatized to it now and rarely have problems unless he suddenly stops wanting sex altogether, because when he is in such a phase, it can get really ghastly, since he has no real awareness of another person in the sexual relationship, so if he isn't in the mood, he doesn't even think of it and has no awareness that I may want it and I am left frustrated and disoriented.

 

It can be even harder if I try to explain it to him, because logically he understands, but my desire for sex or the mutuality of it never really having been his game, even understanding won't ensure that he remembers it, because unless he wants it sex can slip his mind altogether in ways that seem .... very strange to a sexual. Usually even if we are having a dry spell, we don't lose awareness of the sexual aspects of the relationship altogether.

 

One example that really helped my ace understand what his disinterest in sex does to me is asking him what he would feel if he couldn't pull me into his arms and hold me close whenever he wished, because I didn't really like it. That he could be around me all day, love me to bits, need to hold me close over something endearing I did or to comfort me, and it was not my scene, though I didn't mind and he could ask if/when he wanted to hold me - but I didn't remember to do it myself or responded for reasons of my own that were unrelated to him.

 

He really understood that, because he has a tendency to hold me close whenever he feels affectionate. It wasn't at all hard for him to imagine how lonely he'd feel if he could not act on those feelings. He now understands sexual frustration as some version of that. Where it isn't about doing the sex or not, but a loss you feel that your partner can't or doesn't share that level of intimacy with you unless you make them do it - which isn't the same thing at all. He has now consciously tried to think of sexual contact as something he naturally offers as a part of cuddles and intimacy. This is still new, but it already feels just superb.

 

At least in my mind, I accept any desire for me as meaningful. I know he doesn't feel sexual desire, but I'm happy to be desired for sex as his masturbatory resource, so to say. I'm happy if he desires sexual contact between us because he wants me to feel contented, and so on. It isn't exactly the same thing as sexual desire, but that doesn't bother me so much. And I have learned to recognize his willingness as his interest and consent, even thought he lack of sexual desire can still feel "off" on occasion (this basically is the reason why we get anxious that we are pressuring them, because we cannot sense reciprocal sexual desire from them and thus the actions seem to not be their wish).

[GLRDT]

9 hours ago, anamikanon said:

One example that really helped my ace understand what his disinterest in sex does to me is asking him what he would feel if he couldn't pull me into his arms and hold me close whenever he wished, because I didn't really like it. That he could be around me all day, love me to bits, need to hold me close over something endearing I did or to comfort me, and it was not my scene, though I didn't mind and he could ask if/when he wanted to hold me - but I didn't remember to do it myself or responded for reasons of my own that were unrelated to him.

 

He really understood that, because he has a tendency to hold me close whenever he feels affectionate. It wasn't at all hard for him to imagine how lonely he'd feel if he could not act on those feelings. He now understands sexual frustration as some version of that. Where it isn't about doing the sex or not, but a loss you feel that your partner can't or doesn't share that level of intimacy with you unless you make them do it - which isn't the same thing at all. He has now consciously tried to think of sexual contact as something he naturally offers as a part of cuddles and intimacy. This is still new, but it already feels just superb.

Yes! And as a very sensual gray asexual, this makes absolute sense to me as well. One time my boyfriend and I were having some tough conversations and he didn't feel like being touched for a couple days so I gave him his space but I was feeling that desire to touch and cuddle him. When I was allowed back into his cuddle bubble I felt like I needed to suck up all the cuddles as possible and I was actually more open to sex because I had been sensually deprived. 

[Kersenne]

I don't know if I can be of much help to answer your question, but as an ace it doesn't bother to have sex (sometimes). 

I'm sensually attracted to people, in the sense that I want cuddle and caresses and generally want to sleep with them (in a non-sexual way). However, if I know that my partner wants more, and it's really hard for them to hold me but not do anything, I don't mind having sex if it then leads to spooning and cuddling. 

 

So I would have sex for the sake of my partner more than anything else.

 

I can't say for your partner, but it sounds as if he wants to have sex with you for your sake, and that it doesn't seem to bother him to do so - it sounds as if he is happy to make you happy, which sounds great  So I wouldn't worry too much if I were you  

[Robin Hood]

Have you looked into Touch Starvation? Sometimes that can cause situations like this. Especially if a person has a strong desire for platonic touch. It could also be that, although your partner doesn't enjoy sex on a sexual level, he might just enjoy the intimacy of the act. The act of being close to you in such an intimate way might provide him joy. Actually, I do know one ace person who really likes having sex with his partner. As he explained it to me, some people get a lot of endorphins from providing a need or otherwise doing nice things for their partner. So, for some people it's things like getting them flowers, or a back-rub, or making them cute blankets. For others, that can be what I refer to as "non-reciprocated sexual encounters". So basically,, some people like to provide one-sided sexual encounters because they get a form of joy that isn't "completion".