Jump to content
anamikanon

A question for asexuals

Recommended Posts

anamikanon
3 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

Is there any way he could masturbate you without having to engage in sex himself?...

He does that. Usually in response to me initiating sex. On his own, he won't "remember". Even with me initiating, he won't do it most of the time, but he will, on and off.

 

Some PM conversation with @squaggly(who had been in a relationship with a sexual girlfriend) also helped me see that my triggers around pressuring someone for sex may have made me overreact to his refusals by assuming that my initiating always stresses him. He has said it doesn't and to always feel free to ask, but also at other times given major explanations about how he feels unprepared or cornered, which made me back off almost completely. But perhaps it may have been about those specific occasions than always. Or about why he can't get erections rather than not wanting me to initiate at all. I will talk about this with him more.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anamikanon

Another thing @squagglysaid that sort of made sense was that because he isn't thinking about sex, my "hints" may not be reaching him at all "It seems weird for a sexual person, but we really just don't think about sex until it's put blatantly in front of us." I hadn't thought of it like this, but I actually recognize it in a lot of his behavior. He can be totally oblivious.

 

This is a lot of food for thought.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lizzie12
2 hours ago, anamikanon said:

This is not logically sound.


I am sorry you had terrible experiences that you see this as a normal part of a relationship with a sexual person, but this way outside the realm of the discussion. Coercion can get anything done. An asexual can just as well threaten to leave if asked for sex as a converse of your first statement. It is more about who holds the power in the relationship. I'd say the person who is dominant or owns the home or whose partner loves them enough to compromise will win - regardless of sexual or asexual. Particularly if it is a well established relationship that can't easily be broken over one thing. And a sexual person can also leave it to the asexual's choice to stay or leave without imposing for a converse to your second.

 

It is also interesting how you didn't use identical descriptions for "exact" same choice. Would the two statements feel like "exact same amount of choice" if it were the asexual threatening to abandon and the sexual giving the asexual the freedom to stay or leave?

 

The converse for 

"'You have sex with me or I'm leaving you.'' is "You ask me for sex and I'm leaving you"

 

not

 

''I don't want to have sex with you, and you can leave if you're not happy with that''

 

Coerced sex is basically rape, unlike coerced lack of sex. There is no equivalence when it comes to likelihood of decent people doing one or the other. Though both probably feel equally brutal on the receiving end, one is far more likely to happen as well as far more often than the other.

You are speaking as though there is a "right" to sex for sexuals and that "forced celibacy" is the equivalent of being forced to have sex. No one has a right to have sex- you can ask, but even with other sexual people you can be turned down because people do have a right to bodily autonomy, which includes not being violated sexually or otherwise. You cannot be "coerced" into not having sex, because you don't have a right to it in the first place as it requires another person's consent. On the flipside, a right to bodily autonomy dictates that coercion into sex violates the right to bodily autonomy. I literally cannot believe the sexual people in this thread believe that a lack of sex is as bad or worse than having undesired sex. The sexuals on this forum equate not having sex to missing intimacy in the relationship. If that's what sex is for sexuals, then on no level would someone say a "lack of intimacy" is the same as having sex repeatedly when you don't inherently desire it. For heaven's sakes, this sounds like the incel ("involuntary celibacy") subreddit that got shut down a few months ago.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Philip027
Quote

I'm not flipping those quotes to compete. I'm making the point that it works that way for both sides - and asexuals can just say 'no' to avoid the draining boring chore that requires a daunting amount of emotional energy.

 

Sexuals don't get that choice.

You keep bringing this up and I don't know why, but it's not just an asexual/sexual thing.  ANYONE has the right to say no.

 

Quote

As a male Ace, I have to disagree. Some females can be just as 'aggressive' in their demands for sexual contact as some males can.

I think you missed the "generally" in the statement you quoted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chimeric
5 hours ago, anamikanon said:

We UNDERSTAND reluctance, aversion, drain, violation, even if we are sexual.

Which is different from the ace experience. We can understand some components of it, but we can't understand the entire ace experience. There is a fundamental difference in the wiring, as it were.

 

I probably would fall under some categorization of asexual according to a lot of folks on this website (only been sexually attracted to one person, ever, don't really experience attraction in general, super low sex drive, definitely not high on my list of needs, etc...), but the more I talk to my partner about this kind of thing, the more I understand that sex is just such a completely different experience for an asexual person - not even negatively, necessarily (unless it is), just... super different. It's just not a language that shared between sexual and asexual people, or at least that's been my experience. I think that's part of the reason why these conversations so often go the way that they do. We want to understand each other, but we can only ever know what it feels like from our own perspective, and describing the opposite state to someone else is an impossible thing. :lol:

 

(Sorry, convo has progressed a bit, but I feel like this is an important thing to say.)

 

3 hours ago, anamikanon said:

And here I came thinking it could give me ideas useful to make my ace feel more free. The best advice here seems to be there is no hope, it is like this only, because aces have gone through a lot. But mine would be most unhappy to lose me. So would I be. This isn't a place for ideas for that. Aces who can enjoy sex seem to almost be traitors here or something and the "correct" asexual perspective is unwilling, suffering and large hearted to keep those demanding sexuals happy.

There is hope! I'm in a mixed relationship and I am happier in this relationship than I have ever been. The emotional and intellectual fulfillment I get from my partner is an incredibly valuable thing in my life. We probably aren't a typical example, and it is hard work, but it certainly isn't hopeless.

 

Regarding the final sentence - I'm sure this has been addressed (I skimmed a bit), but what "asexuality" comprises is a bit vague and the definition varies somewhat across the community, which can make conversations like this frustrating sometimes.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anamikanon

 

12 minutes ago, Lizzie12 said:

You are speaking as though there is a "right" to sex for sexuals and that "forced celibacy" is the equivalent of being forced to have sex.

You are speaking like people in a sexual relationship have no business to expect sex, because an asexual decided they wanted a sexual relationship. Absolutely everyone has a right to reasonably expect what they agree to when forming a relationship. Refusals for specific reasons are reasonable, but it isn't like you're saying an asexual in a sexual relationship has to ever agree to sex. Then it is just a scam - they would actually be violating the "terms of their agreement" in coming together in a sexual relationship if they don't want sex, but pretended to want in order to enter a relationship involving sex, and then are using refusals to not uphold their part of it.

 

Technically, an asexual in a sexual relationship who does not want sex should seek a relationship where sex is not expected to be part of their role. Have an asexual agreement! Why imply one thing while beginning a relationship and have such hostility toward it being expected in practice?

 

I don't think anyone here has suggested force or unwilling sex at the cost of trauma, though there are stories of aces doing it willingly. This hostility is completely unwarranted. I don't at all think that someone grieving an important loss to their relationship is unreasonable in asking why it isn't offered even by those who aren't traumatized by it when it was promised.

 

We received various explanations. We will have to absorb them and use the insights in whatever way we can. No one likes hearing something they desire deeply is probably off the table for life. A little insistence to ask out the details or some resentment is natural. An asexual is not blindsided by a lack of desire. They know they don't feel desire even if they don't know why. For most of us, it is a complete shock. There is no equivalent of sexual intimacy in a relationship for those who are capable of feeling it. Cuddling is actually a very pale substitute for the intensity of sex. We don't find it stupid. With someone we love, we find it profound. The idea that we cannot feel that with someone we love dearly is a matter of serious grieving. But we will grieve, we will cope.

 

If we felt we had a right to sex in the sense of our partners owing us sex, we wouldn't be arguing with you here, we'd be busy getting laid or breaking off and finding someone who will get us laid. It is BECAUSE we care about them and their preferences and we treasure their presence in our lives that we try to understand them instead of simply holding them to their word or ending it. We know what we have lost. We are still taking stock of what is left to us. We weren't born asexual. Often we don't KNOW what is on the table and what is not even. The rug has been pulled from under our feet and we obviously are not totally ok with it. We'd pretty much have to not want to be too close to our partners ot be indifferent to something like this.

 

12 minutes ago, Lizzie12 said:

 

No one has a right to have sex- you can ask, but even with other sexual people you can be turned down because people do have a right to bodily autonomy, which includes not being violated sexually or otherwise.

Many would say "Right to have sex" flows from inalienable constitutional and/or fundamental freedoms like freedom of speech and movement and expression and so on. Freedom of sex.

 

What you perhaps meant was no one has an obligation to consent to a request for sex. No one here has claimed that. Pretty sure no court of law, ethics or plain logic would see asking for sex in a sexual relationship to be a violation of anyone's rights. Particularly when the asexual can and often refuses. Which is a normal and correct response when you don't want to have sex, minus throwing a fit at people you led to expect that you'd want it.

 

12 minutes ago, Lizzie12 said:

You cannot be "coerced" into not having sex, because you don't have a right to it in the first place as it requires another person's consent.

Of course you can be coerced into NOT HAVING SEX if you get into a relationship with someone who refuses it and you are no longer single to easily and ethically seek it wherever there is consent. What are your sexual options? Zero. Did you consent to this? NO!

 

Still missing the part that says asexuals can protect themselves from evil sexuals by not getting involved in relationships with people who want sex. Like there is no right to sex, there isn't exactly any right to tell people whatever they want to hear to get into a relationship with them and then simply refuse. Because even if asexuals discover they are asexual after they are in a relationship, they clearly haven't felt a desire for sex to begin with when they got into a sexual relationship implying they wanted it.

 

This is strictly a counterview to your absurdity and not a judgment on asexuals, or sexuals who are both the unwitting victims of a mismatch and not inherently innocent or evil. At least one of whom I adore, regardless of refusals and disinterest.

 

12 minutes ago, Lizzie12 said:

On the flipside, a right to bodily autonomy dictates that coercion into sex violates the right to bodily autonomy.

You may also want to read the law (of ANY country) on agreements under false pretenses. If there is no sexual relationship, there is no sexual expectation. So I ask again, what is a person who has no interest in sex doing implicitly promising someone sex as a part of forming a sexual relationship? As opposed to say cuddle buddies or platonic whatevers?

 

12 minutes ago, Lizzie12 said:

I literally cannot believe the sexual people in this thread believe that a lack of sex is as bad or worse than having undesired sex.

Kindly provide a quote for this false claim. I have not seen a single person who has in any manner wanted to recommend undesired sex even at the cost of their considerable frustration. They are merely talking about their own frustrations at feeling cheated of an important expectation from the relationship. In fact, the expectation that there will be no expectation of sex from a sexual relationship is the absurd one.

 

12 minutes ago, Lizzie12 said:

The sexuals on this forum equate not having sex to missing intimacy in the relationship. If that's what sex is for sexuals, then on no level would someone say a "lack of intimacy" is the same as having sex repeatedly when you don't inherently desire it.

Why not exit a sexual relationship and end the matter instead of grudging people for expecting sex in a sexual relationship? That is like going to a pub and complaining that people want drinks. People get into sexual relationships because they desire sex. I understand asexuals don't, but then they should avoid sexual relationships instead of trying to change the nature of a sexual relationship.

 

It isn't the missing sex that is the lack of intimacy, it is the unnatural barriers to two people coming close. Barriers of disinterest. Barriers of revulsion. Barriers of the sort of hostility you are showing. These have no place in a loving relationship. If you cannot trust your partner to care for you enough that they do not want to cause you distress or make you have sex even if you refuse, you might as well end the relationship. What remains if your most intimate person holds malintent for you? You'd be safer outside it! The problem is a lack of trust. What would you feel if asexuals were accused of deliberately arousing sexuals with cuddling to frustrate them, when they really do it only as an expression of intimacy and affection? An assumption of malintent in an intimate partner is an ugly thing. I'd say you have no idea of love, sexual or otherwise. 

 

If sex as intimacy is an absurd idea, why isn't cuddling as intimacy absurd as well? It is also pretty rubbish meaningless stuff. You just take positions touching each other and be there doing nothing. There is no purpose to it. You can't procreate, it is worthless as exercise, if getting close is a goal, sex gets you closer. It isn't even particularly useful as rest in the way undisturbed sleep is. Sending silly love messages is stupid. What is intimate about sending a bunch of emoticons and very similar messages at random intervals? In fact, once you've told someone you love them, what's the point repeating it over and over? Are they deaf or suffering from memory loss? And don't even get me started what foodies look like to someone who can't figure out the need to go to great extents to just stuff things in your mouth - maybe a bit more elegantly. Like some escapee from famine. Why desire for sex, anything desired can be turned ugly if you just ridicule it enough because you don't like it. You can strip any act between a couple of its beauty if you get crude enough. An ability to uglify something doesn't make you right, it just makes you mean.

 

=================================================

I most certainly respect everyone's right to refuse, and I understand that many aces find sex absurd and unnecessary at the very least, but this sort of an attitude has no place in a mutually loving relationship. Most often, mixed relationships happen because either people didn't realize one of the partners was asexual or there is a compromise negotiated that involves a certain limited expectation of sex. To be so hostile to someone over natural desire for something that holds deep meaning for them is not the foundation of ANY relationship. Sexual, platonic, parental, professional, ANYTHING.

 

Do you have any idea of the courage it takes to let your ace see you climax knowing that something that feels special and profound to you probably looks like you making strange faces, moving your limbs in bizarre jerks and sounding out of breath without having moved a foot from where you started? And we'd still want it rather than lose it. Because it is important. How willing would you be to be seen at your most unguarded, your most vulnerable moment in doing ANYTHING by someone who found it absurd? We're signing on for it for life because it is still better than without the person.

 

I most certainly don't blame aces for refusal or think sexuals have a right to pressure them into sex. IMO aces and sexuals are BOTH simply the victims of an unfortunate mismatch. I think it is important to not lose sight of that. There will be efforts to find a better middle ground. There will be distress. But functional relationships can't happen if there isn't so much as a basic assumption that the other person is at least a decent human being doing their best and worth not humiliating at the very least.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spazzticsoda
5 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I give up.

Telecaster68, i like you being here from what I have seen of you.  I actually appreciate some of the sexuals being on the site, especially in the section for RELATIONSHIPSSS.

 

This whole thread is a bit of a mess. But I find myself reading and scratching my head...I think it's easy to forget just how important sex is to some people, but I find myself just as confused about the people who need cuddles.  I can see how in a sexual/asexual realtionship the other might either not realize the extent of the disinterest in sex, or the need for it....especially if they don't communicate well.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
6 hours ago, anamikanon said:

If sex as intimacy is an absurd idea, why isn't cuddling as intimacy absurd as well? It is also pretty rubbish meaningless stuff. You just take positions touching each other and be there doing nothing. There is no purpose to it. You can't procreate, it is worthless as exercise, if getting close is a goal, sex gets you closer. It isn't even particularly useful as rest in the way undisturbed sleep is. Sending silly love messages is stupid. What is intimate about sending a bunch of emoticons and very similar messages at random intervals? In fact, once you've told someone you love them, what's the point repeating it over and over? Are they deaf or suffering from memory loss?

There are plenty of posters on AVEN who would take your ironic position as, in fact, the case. What you're describing is pretty much how aromantics feel. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Browncoat10

 

9 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Why not exit a sexual relationship and end the matter instead of grudging people for expecting sex in a sexual relationship?

Presumably the same reason you don't exit your asexual relationship despite grudging your partner for not initiating sex. 

 

3 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

There are plenty of posters on AVEN who would take your ironic position as, in fact, the case. What you're describing is pretty much how aromantics feel. 

I'm aro, and I personally don't see the point in cuddling, love messages blah blah blah. But I get that the majority of people do. I'm not saying that because I'm in the minority, me and other aros are wrong, but the fact that the majority of people do like that stuff suggests that there must be a point to it - they must get something out of it. The same therefore probably applies to sex. I don't want to have sex, I don't want to want to have sex, I am very happy in my asexuality. Buy being in a mixed relationship sucks (not all of the time but a lot of the time) for aces. So the same applies that a mixed relationship sucks for sexuals too. I'm pretty sure no one here is denying that.

 

I've now totally lost track of what I was going to say, but the point is - there is something fundamentally different about us and our attitudes to sex (and sometimes relationships in general.) There just is. But we all can feel pressured, coerced, lonely, disillusioned, rejected etc etc as a result of being in a mixed relationship. Unwanted sex is a lot worse than unwanted celibacy, but both suck and all know that. This shouldn't be a competition of "my life is harder than your life."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anamikanon
2 hours ago, Browncoat10 said:

 

Presumably the same reason you don't exit your asexual relationship despite grudging your partner for not initiating sex. 

I am not hostile to asexuals. Any asexuals and specially my partner. I am not assuming any malintent on their part. or discrediting their views unlike the post I was commenting on.

 

I understand that a lot of aces have resentment for sexuals over pressure or they don't understand our preferences and so on. But I don't even see the point discussing aces and sexuals in a relationship if something as basic as respect for the needs of both or the pain of both and so on isn't there. If respect for sexuals is not possible, where is even the point aiming to nurture a relationship with something you don't respect?

 

For example "you do not have a right to have sex" "you cannot be coerced to not have sex" "sexuals believe lack of sex is worse than bad sex" and so on.... what is the point having a relationship with a sexual if they aren't worthy of respect to begin with. What does not having a right to have sex even mean a moment before bodily autonomy? Asexual has bodily autonomy and sexual doesn't? That whole post amounts to sexual people having no right to expect that the relationship they agreed to will be as it is, their pain is fiction, they believe in having sex whether you desire it or not, blah blah blah. If sexuals are this terrible, why stay in a relationship with them. There is no argument possible even for other reasons - if your intimate partner does not care that you are violated, there is no relationship.

 

Where is all this hostility coming from?

 

If we believed in getting sex by hook or by crook at the cost of the well being of our aces, why would we even waste time here trying to understand?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
squaggly
1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

I am not hostile to asexuals. Any asexuals and specially my partner. I am not assuming any malintent on their part. or discrediting their views unlike the post I was commenting on.

 

I understand that a lot of aces have resentment for sexuals over pressure or they don't understand our preferences and so on. But I don't even see the point discussing aces and sexuals in a relationship if something as basic as respect for the needs of both or the pain of both and so on isn't there. If respect for sexuals is not possible, where is even the point aiming to nurture a relationship with something you don't respect?

 

For example "you do not have a right to have sex" "you cannot be coerced to not have sex" "sexuals believe lack of sex is worse than bad sex" and so on.... what is the point having a relationship with a sexual if they aren't worthy of respect to begin with. What does not having a right to have sex even mean a moment before bodily autonomy? Asexual has bodily autonomy and sexual doesn't? That whole post amounts to sexual people having no right to expect that the relationship they agreed to will be as it is, their pain is fiction, they believe in having sex whether you desire it or not, blah blah blah. If sexuals are this terrible, why stay in a relationship with them. There is no argument possible even for other reasons - if your intimate partner does not care that you are violated, there is no relationship.

 

Where is all this hostility coming from?

 

If we believed in getting sex by hook or by crook at the cost of the well being of our aces, why would we even waste time here trying to understand?

From my time talking with you, I've come to believe you really are a pretty great person. I have a lot of respect for you

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Browncoat10
1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

I am not hostile to asexuals. Any asexuals and specially my partner. I am not assuming any malintent on their part. or discrediting their views unlike the post I was commenting on.

 

I understand that a lot of aces have resentment for sexuals over pressure or they don't understand our preferences and so on. But I don't even see the point discussing aces and sexuals in a relationship if something as basic as respect for the needs of both or the pain of both and so on isn't there. If respect for sexuals is not possible, where is even the point aiming to nurture a relationship with something you don't respect?

 

For example "you do not have a right to have sex" "you cannot be coerced to not have sex" "sexuals believe lack of sex is worse than bad sex" and so on.... what is the point having a relationship with a sexual if they aren't worthy of respect to begin with. What does not having a right to have sex even mean a moment before bodily autonomy? Asexual has bodily autonomy and sexual doesn't? That whole post amounts to sexual people having no right to expect that the relationship they agreed to will be as it is, their pain is fiction, they believe in having sex whether you desire it or not, blah blah blah. If sexuals are this terrible, why stay in a relationship with them. There is no argument possible even for other reasons - if your intimate partner does not care that you are violated, there is no relationship.

 

Where is all this hostility coming from?

 

If we believed in getting sex by hook or by crook at the cost of the well being of our aces, why would we even waste time here trying to understand?

I am not for a second saying you're hostile towards aces. You make super cogent and reasonable arguments, and I've agreed with 90% of what you've said in this thread. I'm only saying that you can't ask aces why they stay in unhappy mixed relationships when the same can be said of some sexuals.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anamikanon
41 minutes ago, Browncoat10 said:

I am not for a second saying you're hostile towards aces. You make super cogent and reasonable arguments, and I've agreed with 90% of what you've said in this thread. I'm only saying that you can't ask aces why they stay in unhappy mixed relationships when the same can be said of some sexuals.

That was specifically in the reply to that poster.

 

It is absurd to be so hostile to an expectation of a relationship being what it is. If this is such a big problem, then why get into a sexual relationship? No sexual relationship, no demand for sex. Problem solved. If there is no ability to see that there are TWO victims in this situation and not one villain and one victim, where is the relationship in that even?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anamikanon
1 hour ago, squaggly said:

From my time talking with you, I've come to believe you really are a pretty great person. I have a lot of respect for you

Thank you. That really felt good to hear when I was feeling so down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anamikanon
26 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

t is absurd to be so hostile to an expectation of a relationship being what it is. If this is such a big problem, then why get into a sexual relationship? No sexual relationship, no demand for sex. Problem solved. If there is no ability to see that there are TWO victims in this situation and not one villain and one victim, where is the relationship in that even?

In the sense, it would improve things a hell of a lot if there was a simple acknowledgment of the asexuality changing the expectations in the relationship.

 

"We have a problem. We are in a sexual relationship and I know you like sex a lot. I have never liked it and now I'm discovering I'm asexual, which means this is a permanent thing. Now what do we do? How do we handle this?"

 

as opposed to.

 

"We may be in a sexual relationship, but you don't have a right to sex. My refusals don't amount to you being coerced into sexlessness, because you didn't have a right in the first place"

 

This is nonsense. This is like saying "I may have birthed you, but you aren't entitled to nurture if I refuse. I don't have a maternal instinct" Many women don't. But it isn't an answer. You put your kid up for adoption or figure out how you muddle through. Whether you have the ability or not, it is a role you took on by choice, you at least have a responsibility to acknowledge that and participate in a resolution! Resolution may not mean acting contrary to your nature, but blaming the consequences of the role you took on the other person in the relationship is plain childish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
3 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

"We have a problem. We are in a sexual relationship and I know you like sex a lot. I have never liked it and now I'm discovering I'm asexual, which means this is a permanent thing. Now what do we do? How do we handle this?"

There are some asexuals who take that attitude, and the 'you're not being coerced' trope tends to only come out when pointed questions are asked. The whole out of sight, out of mind response seems more common.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anamikanon
On 01/03/2018 at 10:49 PM, Serran said:

 Because you have to be on guard at all times to avoid hurting them even more and you know at all times you're hurting your partner by just existing as you are. It's a constant drain.

Why would you be on guard at all times? If your sexual wasn't around, there was no question of sex. If there was no demand, I've heard asexuals don't even think of sex. At least I have seen it in action in my home. If I get distressed about the lack of sex and have an outburst, he feels really terrible. But other than that, he isn't thinking of sex or refusing or distress at all. He has been perfectly happy and glowing in our relationship for MONTHS. I am living in the same home, sleeping in the same bed. I don't force him at all. I am going crazy. I don't think he sees that as any more than a mild disappointment because I like sex and he doesn't. I don't even think he believes I am distressed other than outbursts, because I'm not someone to sulk all the time. So when I say it is a constant ache, he seems to hear it as it feels like a constant ache while I'm having the outburst and not a permanent fact of my life.

 

So far, nothing I have said has made him understand. I don't think he believes anyone can want sex all that much and thinks it is part of my creative, emotional nature to speak of it melodramatically when I'm feeling bad. He doesn't want me to be sad or distressed, but I don't think he understands how bad it feels at all, and I certainly have not seen him excessively apprehensive about sex EVER. Not once. If he feels pressured, he tells me, I back off, and that is it. Sex is completely out of his mind again. Heck, he's checked his social media on his phone absently while I got up to get the condoms. That is how little it takes to distract him from sex. Even his feeling pressured hasn't happened in more than a year. Perhaps more.

 

Still, I get it with an insensitive partner, pressure would cause distress at hurting them, but I didn't even realize asexuals thought about sex all that much to dread it without a request for it. Mine can go on indefinitely with no awareness that sex is missign/requested/refused. In the sense of stress about sex would probably be limited at best to times when you were alone and together. Unlike the feeling of being deprived, which is pretty much a constant thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68

I think some asexuals do feel a degree of background guilt, kind of a generalised feeling of not quite pulling their weight in the relationship, but like any insoluble problem that isn't having an imminent impact, end up putting it to the back of their minds, because what else can they do? 

 

Meanwhile the sexual is living in a house filled with the smell of a delicious meal they're not allowed to have, and their partner would go mental if they went out to eat. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Serran
1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

Why would you be on guard at all times? If your sexual wasn't around, there was no question of sex. If there was no demand, I've heard asexuals don't even think of sex. At least I have seen it in action in my home. If I get distressed about the lack of sex and have an outburst, he feels really terrible. But other than that, he isn't thinking of sex or refusing or distress at all. He has been perfectly happy and glowing in our relationship for MONTHS. I am living in the same home, sleeping in the same bed. I don't force him at all. I am going crazy. I don't think he sees that as any more than a mild disappointment because I like sex and he doesn't. I don't even think he believes I am distressed other than outbursts, because I'm not someone to sulk all the time. So when I say it is a constant ache, he seems to hear it as it feels like a constant ache while I'm having the outburst and not a permanent fact of my life.

 

So far, nothing I have said has made him understand. I don't think he believes anyone can want sex all that much and thinks it is part of my creative, emotional nature to speak of it melodramatically when I'm feeling bad. He doesn't want me to be sad or distressed, but I don't think he understands how bad it feels at all, and I certainly have not seen him excessively apprehensive about sex EVER. Not once. If he feels pressured, he tells me, I back off, and that is it. Sex is completely out of his mind again. Heck, he's checked his social media on his phone absently while I got up to get the condoms. That is how little it takes to distract him from sex. Even his feeling pressured hasn't happened in more than a year. Perhaps more.

 

Still, I get it with an insensitive partner, pressure would cause distress at hurting them, but I didn't even realize asexuals thought about sex all that much to dread it without a request for it. Mine can go on indefinitely with no awareness that sex is missign/requested/refused. In the sense of stress about sex would probably be limited at best to times when you were alone and together. Unlike the feeling of being deprived, which is pretty much a constant thing.

It will vary by person.

 

For me, it was a dread all the time. When they were at work, I knew they would be home at X time, so I had how ever many precious hours to do whatever I needed to do that might be risky when they're home. Shower and run out in a towel to my room so my hair can dry (curly long hair, towels make it frizzy, blow dryers make it dry and brittle, air dry is best but I don't like my clothes getting soaked by my hair while it dries...), do my laundry real quick cause I have no clean clothes except something they find sexy, do yoga real quick while they're gone since the positions are too sexual for them to do at home, etc, etc. When they were at home, I had to constantly examine every action, word or activity for "Will this turn them on if I do it?" I even had to start getting up early in the mornings, despite still being tired, cause if I would lie in bed too long, the act of sleeping around them turned them on and then they wanted "morning sex" and would come over and start kissing on me to wake me up. 

 

Basically, my entire life started to revolve around avoiding turning them on. Cause then one of three things would happen. 1) They'd ask, I'd feel like I had to say yes, then be miserable. 2) They'd ask, I'd say no, then be miserable. 3) They wouldn't ask, but be frustrated because they couldn't ask and their entire mood would be ruined and then they'd be frustrated until the next time sex happened and arguments were very likely, with the bad mood only to be diffused by sex. Of course, then half the time the bad mood wasn't fully diffused, cause it wasn't passionate sex with a partner that wanted it.

 

And I'd get accused of not thinking about sex too, by my partner. And I'd get "BUT I LEFT YOU ALONE ABOUT SEX FOR A WHOLE WEEK!" ... but to me it always felt like a constant subject cause even on scheduled no-sex times, if I turned him on too much, he'd ask for sex, so I always had to guard "Should I kiss him? Will it turn him on? Will it turn into a fight about sex? Will it turn into me having to give sex?", weigh the risk vs reward of everything. There was never an escape from it. My whole life was one giant ball of anxiety. Even when I went to take care of my grandmother and I was 18 hours drive away from him, he'd want me to help him masturbate, so I couldn't even escape it then. I was 24/7 care for an 81 year old that couldn't even walk to the bathroom alone, the only food I could get time to swallow was 1 minute microwave mac n cheese, I lost weight cause I literally could not care for myself with all the care she took, but he still needed sexual stuff from me. After I got back home from caring for her, is when our marriage really ended. He decided he wanted someone more sexual, I decided I wanted someone far less sexual. He changed his mind and wanted me to move back in with him, I didn't and so we have been separated for... 3 years now, divorced for almost 2. 

 

Also, as for checking social media on the phone, I found distractions were a big help in me being able to tolerate sex. During sex, I'd sneak my earbuds into my ears and hide my tablet or phone under a pillow (this was really easy to do during oral and stuff :P ) so I would have something else to think about. If I couldn't do that, I'd make to-do lists in my head, or focus on a riddle, or something. Anything to not think about the sex part . That was the only way I found it possible to handle. So, that isn't always a sign that sex is out of mind or easy to forget about. Though, it can be, of course.

 

Now, that is me. And Pan has said she has felt the same. And other people have told me they felt the same. But, there are people who don't get sex is a big deal and can forget about it, because it isn't to them. Personally, I can't. That's why when I left my ex, I decided no more dating sexuals, ever.

 

Of course, then I started seeing someone from AVEN, who gave me no pressure to do anything sexual. And, like Chimeric, I've only felt sexual attraction to one person in my life, this person, which developed after getting very close and being accepted for not wanting to do anything sexual. It was weird. :lol: So, I don't dread sexual stuff now, I enjoy it and I do understand it being bonding and all that. But, even now, I know if my partner was "fully sexual", considered it important, would be distressed without it, etc, I couldn't handle it. I absolutely need the freedom of if sexy stuff stops being fun, we stop doing it, no harm to the relationship. So, I still would be unable to date the majority of people... even if I could figure out how to be sexually attracted to anyone else. :P 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)

 

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

Why would you be on guard at all times? If your sexual wasn't around, there was no question of sex. If there was no demand, I've heard asexuals don't even think of sex. At least I have seen it in action in my home. If I get distressed about the lack of sex and have an outburst, he feels really terrible. But other than that, he isn't thinking of sex or refusing or distress at all. He has been perfectly happy and glowing in our relationship for MONTHS. I am living in the same home, sleeping in the same bed. I don't force him at all. I am going crazy. I don't think he sees that as any more than a mild disappointment because I like sex and he doesn't. I don't even think he believes I am distressed other than outbursts, because I'm not someone to sulk all the time. So when I say it is a constant ache, he seems to hear it as it feels like a constant ache while I'm having the outburst and not a permanent fact of my life.

 

So far, nothing I have said has made him understand. I don't think he believes anyone can want sex all that much and thinks it is part of my creative, emotional nature to speak of it melodramatically when I'm feeling bad. He doesn't want me to be sad or distressed, but I don't think he understands how bad it feels at all, and I certainly have not seen him excessively apprehensive about sex EVER. Not once. If he feels pressured, he tells me, I back off, and that is it. Sex is completely out of his mind again. Heck, he's checked his social media on his phone absently while I got up to get the condoms. That is how little it takes to distract him from sex. Even his feeling pressured hasn't happened in more than a year. Perhaps more.

 

Still, I get it with an insensitive partner, pressure would cause distress at hurting them, but I didn't even realize asexuals thought about sex all that much to dread it without a request for it. Mine can go on indefinitely with no awareness that sex is missign/requested/refused. In the sense of stress about sex would probably be limited at best to times when you were alone and together. Unlike the feeling of being deprived, which is pretty much a constant thing.

You constantly know you're not giving your partner what they need, and even when you're giving them sex you know it's not sex in the way they desire it (because they want you to want it as much as they do). So you live with the perpetual guilt of knowing the person you love isn't as happy as they could be because you're just not 'good enough', not able enough, to want what they need. You also know that the only way to try to make them happier is to give them sex and that weight  can really settle on your shoulders and cause a lot  of tension, anxiety, and distress because it's so draining for you but you want them to be happy. On top of that,some asexuals have their own intimate needs that a sexual person cannot meet. Like for example, being able to be kissed passionately without that EVER having to lead to their partner desiring sexual intimacy. Obviously, it would be torture for a sexual partner to be passionately kissing their ace partner knowing their ace partner doesn't want sex so out of respect, the ace goes without those desires being met. 

 

Obviously this isn't true of all asexuals, and your partner sounds very different from how Serran and I were (not all asexuals are oblivious to their sexual partner's need for sex), and he also sounds different to Tele's wife who is again different from how we were, but yeah, I'm just trying to explain that asexuals can all be pretty different. Some care very much about their partner's need for sexual intimacy and really do feel constant pressure, guilt, and a kind of perpetual exhaustion (eventually anyway) knowing the sex is always going to have to happen eventually for your partner to be even slightly happy,while at the same time your own needs are going totally unmet (because you're always giving sex to keep their love and keep the relationship, etc etc). For an ace in this situation, it really is a constant thing (in the same way the pain of celibacy can be constant for a sexual whose partner won't have sex with them).

 

(Edit: oops, I'd left some of my previous reply to Tele in there when I posted this but I deleted that part because I'm trying to keep this relevant!! Anyway I'm on my phone and it's on 7% so I was rushing my reply, but now I see Serrans response - she posted while I was commenting - and yeah she mentioned a lot of stuff I forgot. The constant dread, the avoiding turning them on because you're already giving them as much sex as you can take. It's obviously not like that for all aces but it was for us. And we're not saying we didn't love our partners or they didn't love us. For me, it was *because* of love that I stayed so long and put up with so much, and I'm pretty sure that @Serran would say the same.. you don't want to just throw it all away in the same way a sexual person remains in celibacy because they don't want to throw their love away.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
17 minutes ago, Serran said:

Of course, then I started seeing someone from AVEN, who gave me no pressure to do anything sexual. And, like Chimeric, I've only felt sexual attraction to one person in my life, this person, which developed after getting very close and being accepted for not wanting to do anything sexual. It was weird. :lol: So, I don't dread sexual stuff now, I enjoy it and I do understand it being bonding and all that. But, even now, I know if my partner was "fully sexual", considered it important, would be distressed without it, etc, I couldn't handle it. I absolutely need the freedom of if sexy stuff stops being fun, we stop doing it, no harm to the relationship. So, I still would be unable to date the majority of people... even if I could figure out how to be sexually attracted to anyone else. :P 

This part here was also exactly the same for me. I finally met someone who expected *nothing* sexual from me, and was happy to live in total celibacy, and that made me able to desire certain forms of sexual intimacy with him that I've never desired with anyone before. However, I also could still never be with the average sexual person because it's the *expectation* of sex that stops me wanting it :o as soon as someone expects it and needs it to be happy, I'm unable to want it.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anamikanon
1 hour ago, Serran said:

It will vary by person.

 

For me, it was a dread all the time. When they were at work, I knew they would be home at X time, so I had how ever many precious hours to do whatever I needed to do that might be risky when they're home. Shower and run out in a towel to my room so my hair can dry (curly long hair, towels make it frizzy, blow dryers make it dry and brittle, air dry is best but I don't like my clothes getting soaked by my hair while it dries...), do my laundry real quick cause I have no clean clothes except something they find sexy, do yoga real quick while they're gone since the positions are too sexual for them to do at home, etc, etc. When they were at home, I had to constantly examine every action, word or activity for "Will this turn them on if I do it?" I even had to start getting up early in the mornings, despite still being tired, cause if I would lie in bed too long, the act of sleeping around them turned them on and then they wanted "morning sex" and would come over and start kissing on me to wake me up. 

 

Basically, my entire life started to revolve around avoiding turning them on. Cause then one of three things would happen. 1) They'd ask, I'd feel like I had to say yes, then be miserable. 2) They'd ask, I'd say no, then be miserable. 3) They wouldn't ask, but be frustrated because they couldn't ask and their entire mood would be ruined and then they'd be frustrated until the next time sex happened and arguments were very likely, with the bad mood only to be diffused by sex. Of course, then half the time the bad mood wasn't fully diffused, cause it wasn't passionate sex with a partner that wanted it.

 

And I'd get accused of not thinking about sex too, by my partner. And I'd get "BUT I LEFT YOU ALONE ABOUT SEX FOR A WHOLE WEEK!" ... but to me it always felt like a constant subject cause even on scheduled no-sex times, if I turned him on too much, he'd ask for sex, so I always had to guard "Should I kiss him? Will it turn him on? Will it turn into a fight about sex? Will it turn into me having to give sex?", weigh the risk vs reward of everything. There was never an escape from it. My whole life was one giant ball of anxiety. Even when I went to take care of my grandmother and I was 18 hours drive away from him, he'd want me to help him masturbate, so I couldn't even escape it then. I was 24/7 care for an 81 year old that couldn't even walk to the bathroom alone, the only food I could get time to swallow was 1 minute microwave mac n cheese, I lost weight cause I literally could not care for myself with all the care she took, but he still needed sexual stuff from me. After I got back home from caring for her, is when our marriage really ended. He decided he wanted someone more sexual, I decided I wanted someone far less sexual. He changed his mind and wanted me to move back in with him, I didn't and so we have been separated for... 3 years now, divorced for almost 2. 

 

Also, as for checking social media on the phone, I found distractions were a big help in me being able to tolerate sex. During sex, I'd sneak my earbuds into my ears and hide my tablet or phone under a pillow (this was really easy to do during oral and stuff :P ) so I would have something else to think about. If I couldn't do that, I'd make to-do lists in my head, or focus on a riddle, or something. Anything to not think about the sex part . That was the only way I found it possible to handle. So, that isn't always a sign that sex is out of mind or easy to forget about. Though, it can be, of course.

 

Now, that is me. And Pan has said she has felt the same. And other people have told me they felt the same. But, there are people who don't get sex is a big deal and can forget about it, because it isn't to them. Personally, I can't. That's why when I left my ex, I decided no more dating sexuals, ever.

 

Of course, then I started seeing someone from AVEN, who gave me no pressure to do anything sexual. And, like Chimeric, I've only felt sexual attraction to one person in my life, this person, which developed after getting very close and being accepted for not wanting to do anything sexual. It was weird. :lol: So, I don't dread sexual stuff now, I enjoy it and I do understand it being bonding and all that. But, even now, I know if my partner was "fully sexual", considered it important, would be distressed without it, etc, I couldn't handle it. I absolutely need the freedom of if sexy stuff stops being fun, we stop doing it, no harm to the relationship. So, I still would be unable to date the majority of people... even if I could figure out how to be sexually attracted to anyone else. :P 

Holy crap. I recognize some of your description about being wary about sex. But frankly, that was part of my sex repulsed phase, when I was basically suffering from marital abuse and rape. This doesn't compute as consensual sex AT ALL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68

I've said this before, but there's a lot in what both of you are saying that would be a problem for sexuals as too. Other things, like caring for family, are going to be more important than sex at times, and any partner should understand that. Backing off sex at times like that is just part of being supportive, like say taking on more household chores would be. And doing it with good grace too. Similarly, understanding that kissing, cuddling etc doesn't always have to lead to sex - in fact, hardly ever leads to sex. I don't think that the issue here is so much with a mixed relationship as with a sexual partner not compromising sufficiently. 

 

The problem for me comes when backing off means the sexual partners needs being just as ignored as yours were here. It's the two extremes really. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anamikanon
3 hours ago, Serran said:

Also, as for checking social media on the phone, I found distractions were a big help in me being able to tolerate sex. During sex, I'd sneak my earbuds into my ears and hide my tablet or phone under a pillow (this was really easy to do during oral and stuff :P ) so I would have something else to think about. If I couldn't do that, I'd make to-do lists in my head, or focus on a riddle, or something. Anything to not think about the sex part . That was the only way I found it possible to handle. So, that isn't always a sign that sex is out of mind or easy to forget about. Though, it can be, of course.

That sounds awful. Mine checks his phone because it is an extension of his body. He has his nose in the phone all the time, and in the time it takes me to go and get a condom, the idiot can completely forget we are supposed to be in an intimate situation. He has even explicitly promised to not check the phone in the middle of the sex, because even he can see it is totally bad form, but I don't even think he realizes he does it. Incomprehensible to a sexual, but it is how it is. He.... does his default action. He can also check his phone if he wakes in the middle of the night to go to the loo. He has a proper committed relationship with the gadget. I call it his form of poly. lol

 

I know he doesn't intend to hurt me with this, so I am not offended. But I admit to shaking my head in disbelief.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anamikanon
3 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

Obviously this isn't true of all asexuals, and your partner sounds very different from how Serran and I were (not all asexuals are oblivious to their sexual partner's need for sex), and he also sounds different to Tele's wife who is again different from how we were, but yeah, I'm just trying to explain that asexuals can all be pretty different. Some care very much about their partner's need for sexual intimacy and really do feel constant pressure, guilt, and a kind of perpetual exhaustion (eventually anyway) knowing the sex is always going to have to happen eventually for your partner to be even slightly happy,while at the same time your own needs are going totally unmet (because you're always giving sex to keep their love and keep the relationship, etc etc). For an ace in this situation, it really is a constant thing (in the same way the pain of celibacy can be constant for a sexual whose partner won't have sex with them).

I hear you. Frankly, this isn't my idea of a consensual relationship. Nobody should have to live like this.

 

Quote

(Edit: oops, I'd left some of my previous reply to Tele in there when I posted this but I deleted that part because I'm trying to keep this relevant!! Anyway I'm on my phone and it's on 7% so I was rushing my reply, but now I see Serrans response - she posted while I was commenting - and yeah she mentioned a lot of stuff I forgot. The constant dread, the avoiding turning them on because you're already giving them as much sex as you can take. It's obviously not like that for all aces but it was for us. And we're not saying we didn't love our partners or they didn't love us. For me, it was *because* of love that I stayed so long and put up with so much, and I'm pretty sure that @Serran would say the same.. you don't want to just throw it all away in the same way a sexual person remains in celibacy because they don't want to throw their love away.)

Clearly this is also something I don't understand well, but in my view, if an intimate partner doesnt' care for your well being, there is no relationship. An illusion you want to cling to at best. My partner isn't even averse, but the few times he described sex as being exhausting had be backing off from even asking unless he initiated.

 

Today I found out that he doesn't mind masturbating me absolutely any time I want it and he will tell me if he doesn't. He doesn't see it as all that different from giving me a backrub and pointed out that I don't worry about whether he is in the mood for giving a backrub and trust him to refuse if he isn't. And the exhaustion was strictly about his  body being involved (complexity of having and maintaining an erection for long enough etc is not at all pleasurable sex if he isn't feeling ready for sex and it doesn't even work mostly). For me, this makes no sense whatsoever. If you aren't in the mood for sex, how can you be fine with masturbating a partner? But he doesn't see it as sex. Point is, I went through absolute hell rather than ask him to do it and feel stressed. Because I love him and last thing I want is for him to feel violated by me.

 

A sexual stays celibate because they care about intimate partner. An ace offers because they care about their intimate partner. A sexual partner constantly wanting sex to the point their ace dreads the demands is ..... not a loving relationship. That is like "sacrifice" being about throwing someone else under the bus. Sacrificing them.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Serran
1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

Holy crap. I recognize some of your description about being wary about sex. But frankly, that was part of my sex repulsed phase, when I was basically suffering from marital abuse and rape. This doesn't compute as consensual sex AT ALL.

As I said, if sex was too often (which, for me, by the end of the relationship even once a month would have been "too often", but his needs were 4-6 times a week minimum to stop being upset) then it would feel a lot like a disgusting violation - so even if usually you're not repulsed, there is a limit on what you can do / how often you can do it and for people that limit varies. Some could maybe do it once a month, some a few times a year, others once a week, it just depends on the people. If it became less often, it was more boring and chore like, but still something to be avoided and always that constant nagging feeling that the whole situation is hopeless, you'll never be good enough for your partner, they'll never actually want you for you and always wish you could change and always the on guard feeling cause you know being "sexy" (which some people think a lot of things are sexy...) hurts them and you don't want to hurt them.

 

When I say no to sex, even though I am not repulsed (in general), then it's because I know if I force myself to do this thing, it's going to hurt me in many, many ways and cause repulsion. It's not something easy like watching a movie I don't like that they enjoy. Or sitting through a family event I didn't wanna attend. It's something deeply personal, vulnerable and using your own body in a way you have no interest in, at all. 

 

And not all people will feel like that. Some will feel like it's not that big a deal. Some will enjoy it for their partner's enjoyment, etc. But, trying to explain at least one perspective in response to:  "I am not saying this to do "whataboutery" or trigger a war between asexuals and sexuals, but trying to understand what the big deal about sex is when the asexual is not repulsed. Perhaps trying to get a perspective from asexuals about being denied rather than not wanting."

 

After experiencing how bad it can feel to do something I really don't want to do, long-term, I have a firm rule in place with my partner that unless they actively want something for their own enjoyment and not just for me, we don't do it. I don't care what it is. Cuddling, kissing, sexual stuff, whatever. It has to be mutually wanted, or it's not part of it. 

 

1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

I've said this before, but there's a lot in what both of you are saying that would be a problem for sexuals as too. Other things, like caring for family, are going to be more important than sex at times, and any partner should understand that. Backing off sex at times like that is just part of being supportive, like say taking on more household chores would be. And doing it with good grace too. Similarly, understanding that kissing, cuddling etc doesn't always have to lead to sex - in fact, hardly ever leads to sex. I don't think that the issue here is so much with a mixed relationship as with a sexual partner not compromising sufficiently. 

 

The problem for me comes when backing off means the sexual partners needs being just as ignored as yours were here. It's the two extremes really. 

I've been with five people. Four normal sexuals, one no label but is sexually attracted to me, but sex isn't that important.

 

Out of the four sexuals, all of them started to cause the same feelings in me. Because they needed sex. Even the person that was OK with a few times a month. My spouse I dealt with for 10 years and he had a very high libido, so my feelings ended up growing to a point I couldn't take it anymore. But, I think the only way to avoid them honestly would be to never ask me for sex. Otherwise, they might be less than what I felt with my spouse, but they'll still be there to a lesser degree. Just like if the asexual compromises a bit, the sexual is less sexually frustrated, but the posts in this section prove that sometimes getting passionless sex can still leave the person hurt, anxious and feeling neglected in some cases. 

 

If my current partner needed PiV, oral or anal sex from me, I don't honestly know if I could handle it. Even though I'm happy to do some things, having to do that on any frequency is just going to wear out my emotional reserves one day until I'm like "I can't do this anymore". Someone being more understanding and less needy will make it take longer, but within 1-2 years I've always felt tired and "don't wanna do this at all" at some level, which I usually ended the relationship before I had to push myself past that feeling (and people always told me that I just felt that way cause I wasn't in love with them enough...). I stayed the one time past it and it was a very, very bad idea. However, saying "no, that's never happening again" isn't acceptable either, cause it's ignoring your partner's needs. Which, again, is why I don't think I could date most people. And why I would never again get in a relationship with a "normal sexual" - cause I need the freedom to say "Ok, don't wanna do this anymore" and it not hurt the relationship, cause it's not that important to them. I need that to not be ignoring my partner's needs, cause sex isn't part of their needs.

 

But, yes, either side having their needs ignored is a bad thing. And in a case of extreme incompatibility, both sides are hurt, a lot. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

A sexual partner constantly wanting sex to the point their ace dreads the demands is ..... not a loving relationship. 

Without wanting to revive the whataboutery, I would just say that the inverse if this situation exists - a sexual partner can dread sleeping in the same bed as their partner because of the stress and pain of continually, forever, holding back from any kind of physical contact because rejection is so painful. That's presumably why @anamikanon was talking about separate beds and I frequently find it easier not to share a bed.

 

 

I'm honestly not coming back with this stuff to make anyone feel bad or minimise what asexuals go through. I just don't want the sexual side of the equation to get lost by default. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
squaggly
26 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Without wanting to revive the whataboutery, I would just say that the inverse if this situation exists - a sexual partner can dread sleeping in the same bed as their partner because of the stress and pain of continually, forever, holding back from any kind of physical contact because rejection is so painful. That's presumably why @anamikanon was talking about separate beds and I frequently find it easier not to share a bed.

 

 

I'm honestly not coming back with this stuff to make anyone feel bad or minimise what asexuals go through. I just don't want the sexual side of the equation to get lost by default. 

I don't want it to get lost by default either. I know there are some asexual people who are perfectly willing and able to have sex with their partner, I'm just not one of them. I've accepted this and decided it's not worth it to take offense to someone saying that they don't want one side to always get lost. I wish everyone would think that though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
4 hours ago, anamikanon said:

This doesn't compute as consensual sex AT ALL.

 

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

I hear you. Frankly, this isn't my idea of a consensual relationship. Nobody should have to live like this.

Trigger warning: some of this might be a bit upsetting for some people if you're sex repulsed

 

Not thinking about it while it's happening is really common for aces who compromise. Some read books while their partner does them, some watch TV, I'd count down from 500 in threes or whatever number it was on the day because maths is extremely challenging for me so it was a good distraction. If I got any number wrong I'd have to go back to the start again. I'd also often bite my hands or arms to try to detract from the pain 'down there'. Sometimes those kinds of distractions are the only thing that can make it bearable. I actually have a chronic pain disorder called vestibulodynia that causes excruciating pain upon penetration (or even during oral which my partner always insisted on giving me for ages every day Y_Y).. By the end of it you're raw,  the labia swells up, you're in agonizing pain, and can't even walk properly (feels like having boiling water poured in your hooha), and the pain isn't gone before the next time you have to have sex again. But that's just one of the prices you have to pay to try to keep your partner happy sometimes (just as the sexual person living in total celibacy suffers badly a lot of the time, but they remain in the relationship despite the pain because that's the price of staying). I would NEVER advocate any person, sexual or asexual, having to suffer physically or emotionally as the price for staying in a relationship.. but we do sadly see it a lot of the time from sexuals here having to suffer in celibacy, and it's just a fact that sometimes asexuals are the ones suffering to the same extent.

 

However, people keep saying things like 'that doesn't sound consensual' 'that's not compromise' etc.. and that's part of the point we are making (well, I am making anyway). While for some mixed relationships the sexual person has to do 100% of the compromise and suffer with no sex, there are others where the asexual has to do all the compromise and give as much sex as they are able no matter how much they don't want it. It's not any less valid of a mixed relationship experience just because it sounds a bit 'rapey' though (It's actually not rapey anyway because it's fully consensual, just seems that way maybe in comparison to 'healthy' relationship dynamics). Yes it's painful and awful (as is being forced into celibacy), but this is why some asexuals/people with ace experience get so upset when we see some people (not you specifically, but some on AVEN) saying things like 'the asexual has it easier, they're the one who always has the choice, their suffering only lasts while they have sex at least' etc etc. There's a lot more to it for some aces (both physically AND emotionally, and the emotional stuff often lasts longer and cuts deeper) to the extent that sexuals dismiss the experience in a way by saying 'no, that's not actually really consensual', whereas actually, yes, it's 100% consensual, we were just on the other side of the fence which can most definitely be just as bad (continuously so) as being forced to live in celibacy. Not all mixed relationships are so bad for the ace as ours were, just as not all mixed relationships are so bad for the sexual as yours or Tele's (or IronHamster or any of the other unhappy sexual members here). There are degrees of suffering and everyone's experience is valid, even if from the outside it might sound too 'rapey' (because it's not rape if you're consenting).

 

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

Today I found out that he doesn't mind masturbating me absolutely any time I want it and he will tell me if he doesn't. He doesn't see it as all that different from giving me a backrub and pointed out that I don't worry about whether he is in the mood for giving a backrub and trust him to refuse if he isn't. And the exhaustion was strictly about his  body being involved (complexity of having and maintaining an erection for long enough etc is not at all pleasurable sex if he isn't feeling ready for sex and it doesn't even work mostly). For me, this makes no sense whatsoever. If you aren't in the mood for sex, how can you be fine with masturbating a partner? But he doesn't see it as sex.

Yes this is what I was suggesting the other day just because I know for me, masturbating my ex or even giving him oral at least wouldn't have actively involved my libido needing to be engaged, or my genitals - It's like a mechanical thing you can do that doesn't hurt you mentally or physically so it's easier to do. In my personal opinion what makes it 'not really sexual' for an ace is that an ace isn't getting anything sexual out of the act. You can give your partner manual masturbation without being into it yourself, but it's a lot less physical and emotional effort than anything that your genitals/butthole has to get involved in. Whereas now that I'm on the sexual side of the fence, giving oral would never be a 'mechanical' thing I do with no feeling behind it, I actively want to suck my partners cock and would masturbate myself while I do it because I enjoy it so much, then orgasm when he cums in my mouth. That's the difference, for me anyway. It's good that he can be okay with that though and that you were able to talk about with him, hopefully it will help you both to feel more relaxed and satisfied in the long run?

 

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

An ace offers because they care about their intimate partner. A sexual partner constantly wanting sex to the point their ace dreads the demands is ..... not a loving relationship. That is like "sacrifice" being about throwing someone else under the bus. Sacrificing them.

While I agree with this, it's still the same as a sexual person never, ever getting their needs (emotional or physical) met in any way by their ace partner to the extent the sexual person starts to dread even the touch of their ace partner. I've known quite a few sexual people over the years go from relatively happy with their ace (even if the ace is compromising) to literally dreading getting home in case their ace partner is naked or something. It's like that constant rejection and unmet desire ends up resulting in a 'pulling away' of any touch or suggestion of intimacy, and the sexual will start saying things like 'even if she offers me sex I can't stand the thought of it with her now because the constant rejection has messed me up so badly'. So the sacrifice can be just as bad on either side. However as has been mentioned previously of course, there are also many situations where the ace and the sexual work it out and can be relatively happy together as long as they can find a happy medium that works for them both. @Chimeric for example has expressed often and very vocally how happy she is with her ace partner. So as always, it depends on the people involved and the dynamics in their own relationship. It can work really for some, and for others it can sadly be just a very long, very painful ongoing sacrifice of all personal comfort.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
42 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I just don't want the sexual side of the equation to get lost by default. 
 

14 minutes ago, squaggly said:

I don't want it to get lost by default either

 

 

Well, Serran and I do keep mentioning, repeatedly, how it can be just as bad for the sexual person forced to live in celibacy, we'll often even try to go into detail to explain WHY it can be really painful for a sexual person to be forced into celibacy against their will. This is almost a 'default' disclaimer to every one of our comments as we mention it so often. I wonder if maybe some people just skim our posts and think we're just perpetually moaning about hard it can be for an ace, when we actually both try to constantly remind everyone that a sexual can suffer just as much from being forced to live in celibacy. We're not the only ones who always try to make that clear as well, many aces talking about making sexual sacrifice will often be sure to remind everyone that it can be just as bad for a sexual being forced into celibacy. So it won't get lost unless everyone misses it when they read our posts, because it's definitely almost always there :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...