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anamikanon

A question for asexuals

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Winter Spirit ❅

@Browncoat10, you're a male so you really have no idea what the asexual experience is like as a female and all of the people talking about having these bad experiences with sexual partners are.. Female. Being with a female sexual partner is likely to be very different than being with a male because females generally aren't aggressive.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
17 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

I am sorry you had terrible experiences that you see this as a normal part of a relationship with a sexual person, but this way outside the realm of the discussion. Coercion can get anything done.

Ah okay so it only counts if it isn't something you personally disagree with. Can you understand that many, many asexuals are the ones who give sex to keep their partner happy even though it makes the ace unhappy? Many did it for years despite feeling unhappy themselves as a result (and seriously, how anyone could continue to have sex with someone who feels like that is beyond me, but whatever) but not all experience is going to match yours, or be the perfect idyllic situation you seem to want to hear about. This is life. These things happen. We are speaking from the perspective of aces who gave sex or our partners would have left us (or we could have chosen to leave, just as you have the choice to leave). Some aces can make that choice without it being coercion or rape, they will just often suffer a fair amount as a result (just as you suffer from your choice of celibacy)

 

17 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Coerced sex is basically rape, unlike coerced lack of sex. There is no equivalence when it comes to likelihood of decent people doing one or the other. Though both probably feel equally brutal on the receiving end, one is far more likely to happen as well as far more often than the other.

Stop telling us the sex we had was coerced. We could have CHOSEN to leave (just as you can) but we chose to stay for whatever our own personal reasons were. It's very, very common that an ace gives sex for a long period of time to try to keep their partner happy, even if the sex makes the asexual unhappy (which is most often the case, just as being forced into celibacy will most often make a sexual person unhappy). Many asexuals know their partner will leave if they don't give them sex, but that doesn't mean our sexual partners were/are automatically rapists just because they didn't choose the celibacy route.

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Browncoat10
3 minutes ago, Wish Bear 🌠 said:

@Browncoat10, you're a male so you really have no idea what the asexual experience is like as a female and all of the people talking about having these bad experiences with sexual partners are.. Female. Being with a female sexual partner is likely to be very different than being with a male because females generally aren't aggressive.

Um... I'm a girl. Literally says so just to the left of this post, y'know, below the picture of the Tardis. But ok.

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Winter Spirit ❅
Just now, FictoVore. said:

Can you understand that many, many asexuals are the ones who give sex to keep their partner happy even though it makes them unhappy? Many did it for years despite feeling unhappy themselves as a result (and seriously, how anyone could continue to have sex with someone who feels like that is beyond me, but whatever)

Yeah, it's really messed up and it's driving me crazy that it is seen as acceptable on this forum and no one ever questions it.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
10 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

no asexuals seemed willing to see what seems pretty obvious to me. 

1) not everyone disagreeing with you here is asexual (anymore at least)

 

2) we're trying to explain something that is being repeatedly dismissed and ignored. It only seems 'obvious' to you because you're refusing to look at this from any perspective other than your own.

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Telecaster68

And not everyone agreeing with me is sexual, because it's got nothing to do with sexuality. It's just logic. 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

 it's got nothing to do with sexuality

you specifically said that its asexuals who are  'not seeing your perspective'. Honestly Tele, you can do better than this.

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Browncoat10

@Wish Bear 🌠are you now just ignoring the fact that you said I was male when actually I'm female because me being female doesn't fit with your (hugely flawed) argument?

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squaggly

 I'm tempted to just day both sides are idiots and leave it at that.  This is just silly now

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squaggly
Just now, squaggly said:

 I'm tempted to just day both sides are idiots and leave it at that.  This is just silly now

not that anyone on either side is or is not one, this just isn't anyone's finest moment

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
2 minutes ago, Browncoat10 said:

@Wish Bear 🌠 are you now just ignoring the fact that you said I was male when actually I'm female because me being female doesn't fit with your (hugely flawed) argument?

I imagine Wish Bears comment was aimed at Tele, they just typed the wrong name (I do it all the time here).

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
2 minutes ago, squaggly said:

 I'm tempted to just day both sides are idiots and leave it at that.  This is just silly now

Well, people here are having their experiences blatantly dismissed and being told they're wrong about what they experienced in their own relationships, it's not really surprising that people are upset. 

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Browncoat10
1 hour ago, FictoVore. said:

I imagine Wish Bears comment was aimed at Tele, they just typed the wrong name (I do it all the time here).

Don't think so, she was referring to being ace. I could be wrong though.

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anamikanon
3 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

Ah okay so it only counts if it isn't something you personally disagree with. Can you understand that many, many asexuals are the ones who give sex to keep their partner happy even though it makes them unhappy? Many did it for years despite feeling unhappy themselves as a result (and seriously, how anyone could continue to have sex with someone who feels like that is beyond me, but whatever) but not all experience is going to match yours, or be the perfect idyllic situation you seem to want to hear about. This is life. These things happen. We are speaking from the perspective of aces who gave sex, or our partners would have left us (or we could have chosen to leave, just as you have the choice to leave).

 

Stop telling us the sex we had was coerced. We could have CHOSEN to leave (just as you can) but we chose to stay for whatever our own person reasons were. It's very, very common that an ace gives sex for a long period of time to try to keep their partner happy, even if the sex makes the asexual unhappy (which is most often the case). Many asexuals know their partner will leave if they don't give them sex, but that doesn't mean our sexual partners were/are automatically rapists just because they didn't choose the celibacy route.

I seriously don't understand what you call "choice". I was responding to what I quoted, which is this

 

1 hour ago, FictoVore. said:

 

Think of it like this (though at this point it's starting to seem like a waste of effort typing because apparently it will never get through?)

 

The choice for the asexual is in the situation we are talking about is: ''You have sex with me or I'm leaving you.'' So the asexual has to have sex with their partner, or the partner will leave. 

 

The choice for the sexual person in the situation anamikanon and Tele are talking about is: ''I don't want to have sex with you, and you can leave if you're not happy with that''. So the sexual person is forced to live in celibacy.. or leave the relationship.

Do this or I will do something you don't want is coercion. If you meant that asexuals chose to offer sex out of love, it isn't coercion, it is choice, but it isn't the example you gave as choice. Your example speaks of having a choice of participating in sex or their partners will leave - this is not a choice. This is "if you want my love, life as a couple as you know it, I want sex in return, or I'm pulling the rug". It is NOT choice, though you've called it that.

 

We've blown past the original question into a war I have no idea why. If aces in relationships are doing it for love, and sexuals in relationships are doing it for love, why is there so much accusation and assumption of malintent? I don't know. 

 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)

 

1 minute ago, Browncoat10 said:

Don't think so, she was referring to be ace. I could be wrong though.

aaah yes, I see, seems like mistaken gender identity (I do that too). I do know that sex can be just as bad for the male asexual as the female. My asexual ex had lost many girlfriends due to his inability to enjoy sex even though he has a relatively high libido. It's just the partnered sexual stuff he couldn't bring himself to enjoy.

 

Most people don't really know what it's like being the ace in a mixed relationship long term (if you're the one doing all the compromising, all the time) unless they've actually been there. If you are saying you personally could enjoy that and not be drained from it or anything, then that's great for you. Most asexuals though have a lot of trouble with it and becomes more difficult the longer you're together. In the same way some sexuals can think they're fine with celibacy, then find it more and more difficult the longer it goes on for. As I've been saying from the start here, it just totally depends on the people involved. 

 

 

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Evil
13 minutes ago, Wish Bear 🌠 said:

Being with a female sexual partner is likely to be very different than being with a male because females generally aren't aggressive.

As a male Ace, I have to disagree. Some females can be just as 'aggressive' in their demands for sexual contact as some males can.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
17 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Do this or I will do something you don't want is coercion. If you meant that asexuals chose to offer sex out of love, it isn't coercion, it is choice, but it isn't the example you gave as choice. Your example speaks of having a choice of participating in sex or their partners will leave - this is not a choice. This is "if you want my love, life as a couple as you know it, I want sex in return, or I'm pulling the rug". It is NOT choice, though you've called it that.

 

We've blown past the original question into a war I have no idea why. If aces in relationships are doing it for love, and sexuals in relationships are doing it for love, why is there so much accusation and assumption of malintent? I don't know. 

But, as the ace, you love your partner which is why you *put up with the suffering and the lack of choice*. You know they'd be miserable and unhappy without the sex, and they have made it clear they'll leave you if they don't get it. That's not automatically coercion just because someone has needs they feel MUST be satisfied or they'll have to leave.  You make the sacrifice because you love them, you want them to be happy, and you don't want the relationship to end which it will if you don't give them sex (not speaking for all mixed couples, just ones like what Serran and I had).

 

You must love your asexual partner, or else how would you put up with the celibacy that's making you miserable? Same with Tele. You have the choice to leave any time, just as we did. No one is holding a gun to any of our heads forcing us to stay, we do it out of love, not out of fear or anything.. no matter how unhappy we are with either having to have sex, or with the total lack of sex. Of course we love/loved our partners though or we'd never put up with this kind of nonsense (either being forced into celibacy or forced into sex).

 

This was never a 'war' until certain people came along and acted like they knew exactly what it's like for all asexuals, claiming the asexual always has total control over the sex etc. People who have actually BEEN in this situation were trying to share their own personal experiences and were being blatantly dismissed and told that they're wrong, because their experience doesn't match that of certain sexual commenters who are in very different kinds of relationships from what was being voiced by some people here (ie myself and Serran). That's a very simple way to start an argument: tell someone they're totally wrong about their own experience and that you know better even though you've never actually been in the situation they were describing.

 

 

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anamikanon
23 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

Can you understand that many, many asexuals are the ones who give sex to keep their partner happy even though it makes the ace unhappy?

Can you understand that neither the question, nor any follow up comments were EVER about averse aces? If your experience was unhappy, seriously, can't other experiences OF ACES be discussed without being invalidated?

 

Myself, every single sexual to comment here has REPEATEDLY said that we are asking about refusals even by aces who claim to enjoy it. Does that even sound remotely like the experiences you are using to dismiss and sneer at our views?

 

Aces who enjoy sex when it happens do exist. You aren't the sole proprietor of the ace experience. This is an attempt to understand them and why the refusals still happen. In spite of enjoying it. I can provide you with about a few GB worth sexual chat transcripts with my ace. Seeking a sexual relationship, talking about a previous experience, discussing sexual fantasies, the works. But not actually wanting sex. Who still would not care if I'm frustrated if he isn't in the mood. Does that sound like him being unhappy giving sex to me?

 

Sex while not willing is actually a traumatic trigger for me, while my ace is more indifferent. He will simply not engage. I am more likely to burst into tears and avoid touching him altogether for fear of him feeling pressured. Does that remotely sound like what is being discussed is him feeling like I'd dump him if he didn't agree?

 

I just don't understand this barging in and taking over of someone trying to find out something specific with your default statements.

 

What being pressured to offer sex? I am asocial and demi and engaging in random dating of strangers in an effort to completely free him of requests for sex unless he wants it. As an asocial person, repeatedly meeting people is stressful for me. As a demisexual, dating people who expect sex whom I feel nothing for feels about as pleasant as an ace facing it. I am WILLINGLY going through that on the offchance my WILLING ACE WHO EVEN ENJOYS SEX GETS COMPLETE CHOICE. Pressured for sex, outraged accusations, random examples ..... this has to be a joke or a complete aversion to any facilitation of relationship between aces and sexuals who treasure them.

 

And here I came thinking it could give me ideas useful to make my ace feel more free. The best advice here seems to be there is no hope, it is like this only, because aces have gone through a lot. But mine would be most unhappy to lose me. So would I be. This isn't a place for ideas for that. Aces who can enjoy sex seem to almost be traitors here or something and the "correct" asexual perspective is unwilling, suffering and large hearted to keep those demanding sexuals happy.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
26 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Myself, every single sexual to comment here has REPEATEDLY said that we are asking about refusals even by aces who claim to enjoy it. Does that even sound remotely like the experiences you are using to dismiss and sneer at our views?

 

Aces who enjoy sex when it happens do exist. You aren't the sole proprietor of the ace experience. This is an attempt to understand them and why the refusals still happen. In spite of enjoying it. I can provide you with about a few GB worth sexual chat transcripts with my ace. Seeking a sexual relationship, talking about a previous experience, discussing sexual fantasies, the works. But not actually wanting sex. Who still would not care if I'm frustrated if he isn't in the mood. Does that sound like him being unhappy giving sex to me?

I already DID respond to all that, and I also said that if an ace loves sex, enjoys it as much as the sexual, and will never feel drained or unhappy from having that sex, then they're not asexual. I also specifically stated that some asexuals can be just as 'unthoughtful' about it as sexual people can sometimes be about sex (sexuals like my ex or Serran's ex). He certainly does seem to have 'led' you into something while giving you the false impression that he was very sexual. I tried to explain what it's like from all the different types of ace perspective based on literally hundreds of hours of conversation in these forums with asexuals from all different walks of life. I explained what I knew of Ciri's situation, where even though she claimed to enjoy sex she still ended up feeling drained as a result of it eventually because, being asexual, it's still going to be your innate state to prefer not to have it even if you think you can enjoy it.

 

The issue with your partner seems more like a personality issue than an asexuality issue though, sorry. HOWEVER, there are also asexuals who are very 'sexual' (while not actually having any desire for, or experiencing any enjoyment from, actual sex). My asexual ex was quite a lot like this, but he obviously made it very clear from the beginning of our relationship that he wanted nothing to do with actual sex, he just enjoyed the flirting and sensuality etc. Maybe your ace partner is more like this and just didn't know that until it came time to actually having sex, though it sounds like regardless of that, he doesn't have much interest in trying to meet you half way. Again, that's a personality thing, not a specifically ace thing.

 

26 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Sex while not willing is actually a traumatic trigger for me, while my ace is more indifferent. He will simply not engage. I am more likely to burst into tears and avoid touching him altogether for fear of him feeling pressured. Does that remotely sound like what is being discussed is him feeling like I'd dump him if he didn't agree?

At not one point was anyone here comparing their personal experience to your situation.

 

26 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Pressured for sex, outraged accusations, random examples ..... this has to be a joke or a complete aversion to any facilitation of relationship between aces and sexuals who treasure them.

 

And here I came thinking it could give me ideas useful to make my ace feel more free. The best advice here seems to be there is no hope, it is like this only, because aces have gone through a lot. But mine would be most unhappy to lose me. So would I be. This isn't a place for ideas for that. Aces who can enjoy sex seem to almost be traitors here or something and the "correct" asexual perspective is unwilling, suffering and large hearted to keep those demanding sexuals happy.

This is a discussion forum. You specifically asked a question to asexuals, asexuals responded, a discussion happened. That's life. No one was comparing their situation to yours though. People (ie myself and Serran) were defending our own experience against Tele's claims that the asexual always has the control over the sex. That's just not the case for all mixed couples, and while I can see how offensive it is for sexual people to even entertain that idea, that doesn't stop it being a fact.

 

And if he truly enjoys sex so much, he'd be having it with you, so clearly there's more to it than that. But again, I already explained all that in my other comments about asexuals 'enjoying' sex. If they're ace, they'll never enjoy it as much as a sexual can, they'll never get as much out of it, and it will end up making them feel drained to the extent they'll want to avoid it. If that's not the case, then they're not ace. If he tricked you into a relationship by pretending he was more into sex than he actually was, then he's a jerk. Maybe he's more 'lith' though, in that he's a sexual person who can love and desire sex at the start of a relationship but as soon as you get to know that person better, you start losing sexual interest. There wasn't much info in your OP though, I was responding to stuff Tele was saying and not things that you were saying about your own personal situation.

 

Quote

I just don't understand this barging in and taking over of someone trying to find out something specific with your default statements.

 

In my initial response I explained that aces often do give up important aspects of intimacy to be with their sexual partner, which is what you were asking about in your OP. That's when Tele started arguing with me about my own past experience. No one was 'barging in' though, we were defending ourselves against claims that we always had control over the sex in our relationships - which we didn't.

 

Not all answers are going to be ones you like, but that's the nature of the beast in forums like this.

 

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squaggly

given up on this topic because all chances of respectful and constructive talk have gone away. PM me if it gets better, please

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anamikanon
4 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

And if he truly enjoys sex so much, he'd be having it with you, so clearly there's more to it than that. But again, I already explained all that in my other comments about asexuals 'enjoying' sex. If they're ace, they'll never enjoy it as much as a sexual can, they'll never get as much out of it, and it will end up making them feel drained to the extent they'll want to enjoy it. If that's not the case, then they're not ace. If he tricked you into a relationship by pretending he was more into sex than he actually was, then he's a jerk. Maybe he's more 'lith' though, in that he's a sexual person who can love and desire sex at the start of a relationship but as soon as you get to know that person better, you start losing sexual interest. There wasn't much info in your OP though, I was responding to stuff Tele was saying and not things that you were saying about your own personal situation.

 

He enjoys it definitely. Doesn't appear to stress or distress him (but I am also extremely sensitive to his willingness). But as he puts it, it feels good when it happens, but the memory/association/whatever doesn't make him seek it.

 

Anyway, I guess my situation is something I just have to muddle through somehow. He's not so much jerk as oblivious. At that time, sex was a new thing, so he was aware and seeking and interested. Now it simply slips his mind, since he sees no need. Problem is me initiating doesn't work. And he doesn't remember. If he's feeling horny (as opposed to desiring me), and the situation is favorable, he'll initiate, because then it is on his mind.

 

I was just hoping to see if there is a way to make him realize that it would be nice to remember or whatever more often by somehow associating it with an intimacy he would miss if he lost it. Or whatever. Ideas, basically, because the lack of interest in me is really hurting.

 

Thank you for your post and the explanation.

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anamikanon

It does stress him out if we have sex too frequently, but we hardly ever do that these days. But as long as it isn't a daily/near daily thing (or even several times a week), I don't think stress or feeling drained is a factor. He just doesn't think of sex at all so there is no question of doing it.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
1 minute ago, anamikanon said:

He enjoys it definitely. Doesn't appear to stress or distress him (but I am also extremely sensitive to his willingness). But as he puts it, it feels good when it happens, but the memory/association/whatever doesn't make him seek it.

 

Anyway, I guess my situation is something I just have to muddle through somehow. He's not so much jerk as oblivious. At that time, sex was a new thing, so he was aware and seeking and interested. Now it simply slips his mind, since he sees no need. Problem is me initiating doesn't work. And he doesn't remember. If he's feeling horny (as opposed to desiring me), and the situation is favorable, he'll initiate, because then it is on his mind.

 

I was just hoping to see if there is a way to make him realize that it would be nice to remember or whatever more often by somehow associating it with an intimacy he would miss if he lost it. Or whatever. Ideas, basically, because the lack of interest in me is really hurting.

 

Thank you for your post and the explanation.

I personally couldn't put up with that, so I admire that you are still trying to struggle through. I could never seek sex outside of the relationship but would never need it enough for that to be an issue, however it's brave of you to try to seek that if you think it will help the relationship even though those 'casual' encounters make you uncomfortable.

 

This is going to sound really harsh (but we already got off on the wrong foot anyway so I can't really make it any worse than it already is) but it sounds like he a sexual person who is just oblivious to your needs, and oblivious to the fact that you're putting yourself in emotional jeopardy trying to find someone to 'ease' some of your desire with. This seems to be a case of 'my needs are the only ones that really matter here' (on his part) and regardless of whether or not someone is ace or sexual, I really disagree with that attitude. It should always be halfway, both partners doing what they can to try to help each other feel as happy and satisfied as possible (without compromising personal comfort of course).

 

Quote

I was just hoping to see if there is a way to make him realize that it would be nice to remember or whatever more often by somehow associating it with an intimacy he would miss if he lost it. Or whatever. Ideas, basically, because the lack of interest in me is really hurting.

I didn't read your other thread (where you described all this in more detail) so this has probably already been discussed, but have you tried discussing this exact issue with him? That you want sex to be about intimacy and for him to be interested in you sexually because without that, you're feeling really hurt? I'd never recommend you try to discuss it from this perspective with an asexual (because an asexual doesn't enjoy sex enough to get any kind of 'intimacy' out of it as a general rule, even if they can orgasm from the sex itself) but from what you say he sounds more sexual than asexual to me, but more using you as kind of like, a masturbation device when he wants it, without it being about your pleasure or needs? I may have totally the wrong picture of him as I haven't read your other thread, but yeah, it sounds like he is perfectly capable of wanting and enjoying sex on his terms and regardless of whether he's ace or not, that's totally not cool. Your desire and emotional needs are just as important as his and, as with any relationship (whether mixed or not) BOTH partners need to put an active effort into meeting each other half way. It's not fair if one gets all their needs met while the other has to suffer and no one should have to be forced to go through that (again, regardless of the orientations of the people involved).

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
23 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

It does stress him out if we have sex too frequently, but we hardly ever do that these days. But as long as it isn't a daily/near daily thing (or even several times a week), I don't think stress or feeling drained is a factor. He just doesn't think of sex at all so there is no question of doing it.

If you never needed sex, and he was able to have it with you whenever he felt like it without you having any physical or emotional desire for sex any of the rest of the time, do you think having it with you would stress him out if it was literally only ever on his terms, when he felt like having it?

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Serran
2 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Following this conversation. I don't see why it is so hard for asexuals to see what @Telecaster68is saying. It is simple circumstances. Short of rape/abuse, an ace can make his preference happen unilaterally. A sexual can't.

 

Both aces and sexuals compromise or impose to varying degrees in a relationship, but the odds are stacked against the sexual inherently, because they cannot actualize their preference without the cooperation of someone opposed to it. This isn't laying blame on everyone, but the reluctance to acknowledge this basic handicap that is unfair, but also unavoidable has started reading like rubbing salt to a wound. Not just are you at a disadvantage, it cannot even be recognized. I have no idea why. It is just basic rational reading of the situation, not a blame game.

 

Sexual wants sex (S), Ace doesn't (A)

 

S asks + A agrees = Sex

S doesn't ask + A is not asked = no sex

S asks + A disagrees = no sex

S waits to be asked + A doesn't ask = no sex

 

Rest you can argue up and down the town with selective examples of suffering. 

S asks, A agrees, sex happens. As I said, on paper, it's being given what you want. But, that's simplifying the issue far too much. The act is not going to satisfy a lot of peoples needs for sexual intimacy. If your partner is hating every second of it, or bored stiff, or otherwise making it obvious they aren't enjoying it, are you going to come away satisfied, happy and feeling closer to your partner? A lot of sexuals will say no. The source of pain is the lack of desire, the feelings, the being unable to have mutual passion and pleasure, share the experience, the vulnerability, the bonding. 

 

S asks, A disagrees, no sex happens. Again, on paper, this is giving what the asexual wants. But, the simple fact is what the asexual wants in many cases is the sexual to not desire them that way and sex to not be an issue between them. Again, the feelings of desire are the source of pain, not the act. The being unable to just be themselves, be happy with it, have their partner happy with it, be comfortable and natural and never have to defend against accidentally turning their partner on through simple intimacy acts. 

 

In either scenario, no one has control over the source of pain on either side. Because the act or lack of act isn't going to solve the core issue. Which is, there is a huge sexual mismatch that causes a lot of negative emotion on both sides. 

 

Does the asexual have control over their own body and the ability to say no to sex? Yes. In a monogamous relationship does that put the sexual in a position of take it or leave? Yes. But, that's not "getting what they want", that's not "controlling the source of their pain", that's not "being happy while their partner is miserable, cause they get their way" and other things people have said about it imo. 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's not about wanting sex in an otherwise arid relationship, it's about understanding that a fundamental ability to choose something important about your life - whether, when and how you have sex - has been removed unilaterally by the closest person in your life. 

 

This isn't petulant whining. Having a degree of control and agency over things that are important to us is important in our sense of having a worthwhile life, and its lack is often a cause in depression. It also is a lack of reciprocity, which makes most people feel undervalued in a relationship, again leading to depression and emotional withdrawal. 

No one has control over anything but their own body, so I disagree that anyone can control a fundamental ability to choose from a person, honestly. If you need sex and your partner cannot supply it, the option of going elsewhere is there, either by leaving, or cheating, or opening up. I'm not in control of someone else's body, only my own. Yes, monogamy relinquishes control, but you still have the option of having sex if you really need to - it's a choice to relinquish that control. Yes, a lot of people are against cheating, but that's also a choice of ethics. Just like if I really needed cuddles from the partner that couldn't supply it, I could have gone elsewhere for it. I made the decision to do without, in exchange for the relationship. I don't say he had control of my preferences. I don't say he had control of my actions. I don't say he had control of anything. I chose to do without. My choice. Just like right now I am choosing to accept something that causes me significant emotional pain in my current relationship, because I love my partner, but they aren't forcing me to accept it, they aren't controlling my happiness. I'm making a choice to accept new information and the pain that came with it. 

 

Also, no one can choose when, where and how they have sex. That is always a mutual decision, not up to the person alone. Unless you're A) Very dominant and have a very submissive partner that goes along with whatever or B) Paying for it. So, you never have that control to lose. You just have an incompatibility when negotiating the mutual agreement cause one wants and the other doesn't. 

 

-------------------------------------------

 

Directed at no one so separating it :P 

 

As I've said before, I do not ID as asexual anymore. I do sexually desire my current partner. It's nice, it's bonding, it's a boost to self-esteem, sure. But, if they decide one day they can't do it anymore, I'm not going to look at it as them controlling if I can or not, cause just like with cuddling with my ex, I will be making the decision for myself, not them, they are just controlling their own actions. Are they worth giving that up to be with? Yes, no, maybe lets see. I'm not going to put the responsibility for my needs, my feelings or my happiness on them. That's on me. Just as it was with my ex. Just as it is with the current thing that I won't go into details about, but has me sometimes unable to sleep and distracted at work it's causing me that much distress, but I still choose to accept that. I never gave up control of myself or my life when I got married before, I am not giving it up now I am engaged and I'm not going to tell them that they have control of my happiness because something in their life they can choose to do or not do is hurting me.

 

I guess it mostly comes down to how you view a situation and personal philosophy. But, for me, I view the core source of pain as the feelings, not the act. And I view the control issue as I always have control of my life and who I give any of that control over to (meaning their control is simply an illusion of such, as I have control over if they have any control). If I told my partner they are controlling my sex life by not agreeing to something, I'd hope to hear an earful. 

 

Anyway, I think I answered the main question in the OP in enough detail so I'll stop writing pages :P 

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anamikanon
3 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

I personally couldn't put up with that, so I admire that you are still trying to struggle through. I could never seek sex outside of the relationship but would never need it enough for that to be an issue, however it's brave of you to try to seek that if you think it will help the relationship even though those 'casual' encounters make you uncomfortable.

I am polyamorous in belief, so I believe that if I actually felt attracted to someone and started a relationship, I'd be fine and it wouldn't stress me, because I'd desire that partner as well. It is just the "dating" process that is hard for me. I have actually never dated before this. I am in my 40s. Not my style at all. I don't like meeting people. Making small talk is my idea of hell. Any relationships I have are people I interact with as a part of something or the other. Shared interests, mutual respect... and it "clicks", so there is no question of awkwardness without desire before it clicks. Now it is like talking to someone who expects a sexual relationship and my brain is going "this one is stupid" "This one is desperate" "dude, at least read my profile" "No, MEETING is not a good idea at all".....

 

But a second relationship is not something that naturally emerges in my social circles (I don't have "social circles", only shared interests), so I have to specifically find it. If it works, it will still be worth it. If it doesn't, and so far it hasn't, I have no idea what to do. I don't want to leave him, but this complete oblivion to something that matters to me sucks big time and is like a daily dose of "you don't matter"

 

Part of me is also not sure getting sex with someone else will resolve this issue between us. I mean, one still wants their partner to desire them (even if not sexually), care about their needs, right?

 

1 minute ago, FictoVore. said:

If you never needed sex, and he was able to have it with you whenever he felt like it without you having any physical or emotional desire for sex any of the rest of the time, do you think having it with you would stress him out if it was literally only ever on his terms, when he felt like having it?

He would be fine if the sex was only on his terms. It may be a bit selfish in the sense of not making an effort to remember and do more so that we can do it more often on his terms, but I think the "his terms" part of it is also about him feeling a bit ambushed if he isn't prepared for sex and he doesn't respond to that. I guess, for a man, the "machinery" also has to be willing, so nothing happens if I initiate. Though sometimes, if he is ok, he'll be fine touching me sexually, even if he won't want it for himself. That is ok too. Even if it was selfish, frankly, I wouldn't like to pressure him anyway. It feels... not something I'd want someone I love to experience.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
2 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

He would be fine if the sex was only on his terms. It may be a bit selfish in the sense of not making an effort to remember and do more so that we can do it more often on his terms, but I think the "his terms" part of it is also about him feeling a bit ambushed if he isn't prepared for sex and he doesn't respond to that. I guess, for a man, the "machinery" also has to be willing, so nothing happens if I initiate. Though sometimes, if he is ok, he'll be fine touching me sexually, even if he won't want it for himself. That is ok too. Even if it was selfish, frankly, I wouldn't like to pressure him anyway. It feels... not something I'd want someone I love to experience.

Is there any way he could masturbate you without having to engage in sex himself? would he feel pressured if he just used his fingers (and toys or whatever) to help you orgasm, which would show he really cares about your desires even if he isn't able to want the full 'sex experience' himself? If there was a way you could be fine with that to the extent of not actively desiring 'more' (because you're still getting your physical needs met sexually) it may help bring him out of his shell once he can see your needs are being fully met.. it might even make him be more comfortable with wanting more sex? I know it sounds weird put that way, but I have never wanted sex in my entire life until (at around 28) I was with someone who was totally fine not having sex with me, ever, but was also open to having sex if I wanted it. That made me actively want sexual intimacy in a way I'd never experienced before. Also, when I was 'functionally asexual' if all my ex had wanted was a hand job (or even oral though not everyone can do that) I'd have been happy to do that whenever he wanted without it being any pressure on me. It was his need to have me fully engaged in the sex, trying to force me to enjoy it and to orgasm, that caused the most emotional drainage and even physical pain at times. Maybe your partner could be okay with using masturbation techniques on you if it doesn't have to involve him having to actually be aroused and experience pleasure himself? And maybe making you orgasm and seeing your pleasure might even get him horny enough (as a natural response to seeing a woman orgasm) that he might want sex right after making your orgasm?

 

You've possibly tried all this or discussed it in a different thread, but if not, would that be something that could work for you both? 

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Winter Spirit ❅

@Evil Oh no, I'm well aware that females can be just as bad as males sometimes. But that's why I said women generally aren't aggressive, not that they are never aggressive.

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Winter Spirit ❅

@Browncoat10 I apologize for the gender mix-up. I was on my phone and couldn't view what people list for Gender, Pronouns, Location, and A/Sexuality.

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Browncoat10
2 minutes ago, Wish Bear 🌠 said:

@Browncoat10 I apologize for the gender mix-up. I was on my phone and couldn't view what people list for Gender, Pronouns, Location, and A/Sexuality.

S'all good :) 

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