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anamikanon

A question for asexuals

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anamikanon

Would you accept a sexual partner disinterested in cuddling you or mostly refusing and allowing only on their terms?

 

Replace cuddling here by whatever your form of necessary intimacy is. Obviously other than sex.

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MissMidnight

I have in the past and well it ended up not being enough for me. The things i needed werent being met and well the compromise wasnt there, they refused to compromise so it didnt work for me and that was that. That has happened a few times with different people, it just meant they werent right for me and well I moved on. 

 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
13 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Would you accept a sexual partner disinterested in cuddling you or mostly refusing and allowing only on their terms?

 

Replace cuddling here by whatever your form of necessary intimacy is. Obviously other than sex.

A lot of asexuals have had to give up the kinds of intimacy they desire for the sake of their sexual partner because depending on the partner, things like being naked together and snuggling and kissing can be torture for a sexual person if those actions don't lead to sex, and can be much less pleasurable for the ace if there's a possibility they'll lead to sex. Some of the aces who have had to give up the intimacy they desire still meet their sexual partners desires 100% of the time (by giving them sex), so it's pretty much the complete opposite of the sexual person being forced into celibacy. Generally in a mixed relationship both partners are going with aspects of their needs being completely unmet, which is why it's so common for aces and sexuals to BOTH end up miserable in a mixed relationship. Obviously also, there are asexuals who merely give up their need to not have sex in order to keep their partner, but you specifically said other than sex so I'm not sure if that really counts.

 

 

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Telecaster68
51 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

Generally in a mixed relationship both partners are going with aspects of their needs being completely unmet, which is why it's so common for aces and sexuals to BOTH end up miserable in a mixed relationship.

This is true, but there's a key difference. There are plenty of sexuals on here who are very clear that they'll take what they can get, with no pushing for sex, but as a previous thread showed, asexuals still don't feel able to compromise because... well, tbh, I'm not entirely sure why. No amount of promising and demonstrating that cuddles etc would never lead to any initiation seemed to be enough. So the asexuals are making their own choice to avoid any type of physical affection.

 

Meanwhile, sexuals get no choice, beyond leaving.

 

I'm not saying there isn't distress on both sides, but it's simply a fact that asexuals are gatekeeping both sex, and - often - any physical affection. There's a huge imbalance of agency here.

 

But anyway, that wasn't what @anamikanon was asking.

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Philip027

I'm not a really physical person (my only relationships have ever started online, if that's any indication) so I wouldn't be very fussed.

 

Quote

Replace cuddling here by whatever your form of necessary intimacy is.

Oh.

 

Well, if there was no intimacy (I define it as more emotional than physical) in the first place, there wouldn't have been any relationship to begin with.

 

Your question reads off to me sorta like "would you still be satisfied with the meal if there was no food?" whereas I'd be sitting here like "...what meal?"  It's probably not what you intended, but it's paradoxical to me.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
26 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

This is true, but there's a key difference. There are plenty of sexuals on here who are very clear that they'll take what they can get, with no pushing for sex, but as a previous thread showed, asexuals still don't feel able to compromise because... well, tbh, I'm not entirely sure why. No amount of promising and demonstrating that cuddles etc would never lead to any initiation seemed to be enough. So the asexuals are making their own choice to avoid any type of physical affection.

 

Meanwhile, sexuals get no choice, beyond leaving.

 

I'm not saying there isn't distress on both sides, but it's simply a fact that asexuals are gatekeeping both sex, and - often - any physical affection. There's a huge imbalance of agency here.

 

But anyway, that wasn't what @anamikanon was asking.

 

26 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

No amount of promising and demonstrating that cuddles etc would never lead to any initiation seemed to be enough

Well you're not one of the sexuals people are referring to when they voice these concerns though. For example, Serran and I (and others who have these same past experiences) were with partners for whom snuggling, kissing, and romantic cuddling would without question lead to them trying to initiate sex. I know in my case (and I'm not the only one here who has voiced this) I'd be accused of being cocktease and end up with a disgruntled and unhappy partner if I, for example, wanted a foot rub or a snuggle or whatever, but didn't want that to lead to sex (no matter how much sex I'd already given that week). You aren't like that, neither are most of the partners who end up on AVEN (because they're generally being forced to be celibate which is how they end up here) but there are certainly sexual partners out there who are very different from you, who will give an ultimatum like: You fuck me or I leave/cheat/take it anyway, and for whom any kind of intimacy will lead to them trying to initiate sex. I am of course certainly not placing all sexual people into this category, I'm just trying to emphasize that there are asexuals on AVEN who have experiences with partners like this in the past.

 

You have made it very clear that you would never pressure your partner for sex if she wanted snuggles or whatever, but we aren't referring to you, we are referring to our own exes so of course no demonstration on your own part could 'be enough' because we aren't talking about you, we are talking about someone else (our own exes).

 

26 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

but it's simply a fact that asexuals are gatekeeping both sex, and - often - any physical affection.

To be honest Tele, I like you, but I'm getting SUUUUUPER sick of you making these blanket statements in the face of people here actively trying to explain to you that not all sexual partners are exactly like you. There are relationships out there where it's the OTHER way around, and it's the sexual person who does all the gatekeeping and the asexual pretty much has to give sex or will be thrown out on their butt. There are also mixed couples who can very happily meet in the middle like @Chimeric and @Evil, but they're obviously far rarer for a mixed couple.

 

Whenever myself, or Serran, or anyone else explains that we in the past were the ones who did all the compromising for our sexual partners and got nothing in return, you keep coming back with 'no, it's asexuals who control the relationship and the physical intimacy that happens' etc etc.. yet we never, ever make the same blanket statement about sexuals having total control. Anyone else here admits that it can go either way depending on the people involved - it can either be the ace or the sexual doing all the compromising. You (among a couple of other sexuals here) are the only ones who keep insisting it's always the ace who has control over the intimacy experienced in the relationship when that categorically is just not always the case, as multiple people have explained to you when trying to relay their past experiences being the one who always had to compromise for their sexual ex.

 

It's really hurtful because, while I totally understand your pain not getting sex, the pain of having to give sex constantly while never getting your own needs meet is also very deep, very real, and can be very damaging emotionally for some people when that has to be constantly maintained over many years. Not all asexuals experience emotional trauma as a result, but some do experience very deep emotional trauma from it (just as many sexuals experience a great deal of trauma from being forced to live in celibacy with the one they love). You're constantly dismissive of those asexuals who compromised consistently and suffered as a result and seem not to be able to look past your own situation of being forced into celibacy. Suffering can happen on both sides though, so please, please, stop the constant blanket statements about asexuals gatekeeping sex and physical affection. Yes, that's happening in YOUR situation and for many of the other sexual people who end up on AVEN, and I'm deeply sorry for that, but there are asexuals who have no choice in their situation as well - it's cruel to be so consistently dismissive of what they've had to experience/are experiencing as a result of having no choice but to give sex. Please understand that not everyone's situation is exactly like yours :/

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anamikanon

I am not saying this to do "whataboutery" or trigger a war between asexuals and sexuals, but trying to understand what the big deal about sex is when the asexual is not repulsed. Perhaps trying to get a perspective from asexuals about being denied rather than not wanting.

 

I am struggling with this right now. Our relationship has mismatches on many fronts. Our ages are different, relationship experiences are different, genders are different, diet requirements are different, interests are different, sexual desire is different.... and so on. There is adjustment and adaptation on many fronts happening willingly. Some things both feel strongly about and must be negotiated, other things are required by circumstances (a low carb diet to manage blood sugar, for example) and must be accommodated, other things we are indifferent about.

 

To me, adapting the default diet to not be high carb and ensuring there are at least enough low carb options to keep him full on food he likes (as opposed to merely not going hungry) is something that takes special effort. It is not my need and I am averse to domestic work. But I do it willingly and cheerfully because he matters to me. I know he's a foodie (I think this is an ace trait, lol) and has a sweet tooth and is devastated that he can't indulge in it. I try to make it softer. I am indifferent to food as long as it doesn't taste bad and I don't have to make it. Figuring out recipes and making stuff absolutely doesn't come naturally to me. What comes naturally to me is doing zero domestic work - as in, the help makes the tea I drink and the restaurant delivers food I want beyond the help's cooking. I actually feel strongly about it, because it is a very hard earned freedom from "woman's work" and I absolutely don't touch "woman's work" if I can help it. I can afford to pay for someone to do it, and I will. But I overlook this easily when it comes to providing something regularly necessary for a loved one.

 

I don't have a tendency to cuddle. It is his preferred expression of affection, love. We cuddle anyway and I have learned to like it and accept it and treasure it.

 

I don't like watching films - I am an active thinker, doer, seeker of information, passive watching of provided content doesn't interest me unless it is an informative video, he's a movie buff. We watch films. I've learned to enjoy some kinds of films and we watch those together. He too compromises on this by not watching the kinds I don't like (horror, violence, excessively tedious stuff).

 

There are things he doesn't like, but accepts too.

 

We are getting over our preferences all the time. Asexuals aren't interested in sex, but many even are able to enjoy it (and this is strictly about those, not forcing those who are repulsed), so what is the big deal to cause such a big chasm? How is it different from someone who doesn't like cuddling and films snuggling to catch a romcom readily? Why does the sexual have to tiptoe so much about being themselves naturally?

 

Not talking about aces who are traumatized or repulsed, but the "don't mind, even enjoy at times" ones.

 

It comes across as very "I don't care what your needs are. I'm not interested.". It HURTS.

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Telecaster68
29 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

You aren't like that, neither are most of the partners who end up on AVEN

Yes, I know. That's my point, and what I explicitly said. You, Serran, and Vega57 cite your past partners as continually trying it on. It's clear other asexual posters compromise too, and I have acknowledged that in my posts. By the same token, plenty of sexual posters on AVEN (most, in fact), aren't like the past partners you, Serran and Vega57 quote, as you say yourself. Being tarred with that brush is hurtful too.

 

My blanket statement isn't about all sexuals. It's about the nature of all sexual relationships, and short of rape, the partner who says 'no' simply does have the power to prevent the other partner having sex. Always. That is gatekeeping. Similarly with any kind of physical affection.

 

29 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

the pain of having to give sex constantly while never getting your own needs meet is also very deep, very real,

I agree - but asexual partners who say no aren't 'giving sex', so logically, they're not pain from it. They might feel distressed because they're saying no, but they're not in pain from not saying no. They're in pain because they've exercised their agency, at the expense of their partner's agency, and recognise the pain their decision has caused.

 

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Evil
11 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

trying to understand what the big deal about sex is when the asexual is not repulsed.

I tried to compromise in a past relationship and it only caused more resentment and insecurity. I doubt it brings anyone much joy to make love with someone who is just going through the motions.

 

2 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Would you accept a sexual partner disinterested in cuddling you or mostly refusing and allowing only on their terms?

Absolutely. 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
31 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

We are getting over our preferences all the time. Asexuals aren't interested in sex, but many even are able to enjoy it (and this is strictly about those, not forcing those who are repulsed), so what is the big deal to cause such a big chasm? How is it different from someone who doesn't like cuddling and films snuggling to catch a romcom readily? Why does the sexual have to tiptoe so much about being themselves naturally?

I am talking from the perspective of mostly 'sex neutral'. Not many asexuals actively enjoy sex.. some may be able to orgasm from the stimulation but for the most part, 'enjoyment' is a stretch. You don't have to be 'repulsed' to become extremely physically and emotionally drained from having sex you don't want. Your body eventually starts shutting down and wanting to pull away because sex becomes so.. incredibly... draining. Imagine having a huge pile of dishes to do every single night, and I mean MASSIVE (like, after a huge party), and your partner really wants you to do them and will become unhappy if you don't because for your partner, you doing that MASSIVE pile of dishes alone is the ultimate form of intimacy. You might be able to keep that up for a few weeks or even months, but if you're getting NOTHING out of doing those dishes, don't really enjoy doing them at all, and are only doing them every single night because it's the only way to make your partner 'satisfied'.. it's seriously deeply draining. Or imagine if the only way your partner could get true pleasure was from poking their finger really hard into your belly button every night, over and over again, and would become unhappy without that. It's not necessarily painful for you, but it's really uncomfortable, you don't get anything out of it, and feel like your own needs are going unmet - but your partner won't be happy unless they can stick you in the bellybutton repeatedly, over and over again.. You'll eventually start trying to find ways to avoid it, and become mentally and emotionally drained just thinking about having to do it. Even just the pressure of knowing your partner wants it can become overbearing.

 

Sex, for an asexual, is NOTHING like sex for a sexual person. Asexuals experience no intimacy from sex, no emotional pleasure, it's being forced to do something you get NOTHING out of, in any way, for the sake of your sexual partner. Many 'neutral' asexuals describe it as a really boring and unpleasant chore that they know they have to do, which can even begin to foster resentment and insecurity when you know your sexual partner is getting all the fun (from having sex with you) and not having to suffer in the same way you are for the sake of their happiness. The get the happiness while you have to do a boring, draining, and relatively unpleasant chore.

 

AGAIN, I am talking from the perspective of the asexuals here, so I would really appreciate it if certain sexual members didn't try to argue or say I'm wrong about this. I have lived this, as have other people on AVEN. No, not all mixed relationships are like this, many involve the sexual person being forced to live in celibacy (and very rarely the ace can be happy with certain kinds of sex without actually suffering from it - though in this case the sexual partner would be just as happy so wouldn't end up on AVEN).  I am trying to describe what it's like for a relatively sex neutral asexual (who may also be very sex positive and TOTALLY understand why their partner desires and enjoys it, they just don't want it themselves) who is giving their partner sex. It's like the most boring and frustrating chore you can imagine. And even IF you can orgasm from it, it's still boring and frustrating because it would be a lot easier just to masturbate to get the orgasm out of the way.

 

31 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

so what is the big deal to cause such a big chasm?

I know for me when I was functionally asexual, and many other asexuals here have expressed this feeling also, the sex itself CAUSES feelings of a 'chasm' between you and the person you love. While for a sexual person sex feels deeply intimate, for many asexuals sex actually drives a rift through the intimacy between them and their partner.

 

If you could imagine an activity that would make you feel very separated from your partner, then imagine that's the act that feels most intimate for your partner. How often are you be able to keep it up with a smile on your face when every single time you do it you feel literally no intimacy and actually feel quite alone and isolated during and after the act? Or imagine that sex for an asexual feels exactly like celibacy for a sexual person.. it feels the same on an intimate level (as in, not at all intimate!). Now you understand exactly how sex feels for an asexual, it's the same as when you're forced to be in celibacy. So you saying 'what's the big deal?' is the same as when an ace says ''what's the big deal with celibacy? it's so easy to not have sex!''

 

Anyway, I personally disagree with the asexual person getting all their needs met while not having any interest in meeting their sexual partners needs, in exactly the same way I disagree with the sexual person getting all their needs met without caring about the needs of their asexual partner. It goes both ways and it's quite rare that both people in the mixed relationship make a consistent effort to keep the other happy as humanly possible and can remain happy like that, it sadly is often a case of one person getting more needs met than the other (be that the sexual or the ace).

 

I am very sorry for the pain you experience, but I am just trying to explain this from the asexual perspective as clearly and thoroughly as I can. @Serran could maybe give some input here too, as she was also in the 'able to give sex' boat, but still ended up suffering emotionally as a result of that sex in the long run. I am NOT saying this is the sexual person's fault for being too demanding, or the asexuals fault for not being 'sexual' enough. It's just something that sadly many mixed couples have to suffer through, and for many, it just does not work out in the long run :/

 

 

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Dj91

This is all down to the individual. My answer right now is I would rather keep the hugging/cuddling part and have sex than not having any contact with people at all. I have not had a long term relationship where this is the case so cannot say for certain.

 

As the act in itself as others have said gives me nothing. I love making a partner happy but it can get very emotionally distressing rather than physically. Especially if it's frequent. Last time I ended up resenting myself more because I could not enjoy what they did.

 

Different people can compromise in different ways. The only way you can know what that is, is by you and your partner discussing it. No one here is going to have had the exact same scenario. 

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Jade Cross

I was reading your other post and from the asocial perspective , I can understand, in a way, the idea that a connection with someone doest magically appear.

 

In a sense, I would fault your partner because the initial courting (as often does, which I personally find highly contradictory no matter if its aces or sexuals alike) was all sunshine and rainbows in theory. But like every theory, it eventually needs to come under scrutiny and thats when the suprises arise.

 

My way of seeing (and I know it usually tends to rub people the wrong way) is to take the logical way, basically leave/breakup. I know people are big on emotions and all that but the fact would still remain that considerable time has passed and true to its saying, you cant change people. So youre left with 1 of 2 choices. Either continue doing what your doing now of trying to look the other way or cut off ties indefinetly.

 

The question that will answer that is, which pain are you willing to suffer through more?

 

 

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anamikanon

Thank you for your responses. I am also feeling less hopeless now. I get all this logically. I suppose it is just hard to keep it in sight when things get hard.

 

I actually went and met someone I found on OKC. He isn't suitable for a relationship, but we had a brief but very pleasant and free flowing conversation. It was clear that he liked me a lot and thankfully was not pushy about a relationship at all so I didn't get spooked either. End result was a brief time with someone who really liked me, and it helped improve my mood.

 

Not that the situation has changed any from yesterday, when I was very happy, today when I was hopeless or now. But I am strangely feeling less lonely. Good enough, I guess.

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Telecaster68
4 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

I can understand, in a way, the idea that a connection with someone doest magically appear.

Except sometimes, it does. Not often, and it then needs to be maintained, but it does happen. Not just sexually, but an inexplicable draw towards someone.

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Jade Cross
2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Except sometimes, it does. Not often, and it then needs to be maintained, but it does happen. Not just sexually, but an inexplicable draw towards someone.

Are you refering to love at firts sight? Because thats only infatuation

 

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Telecaster68

No, an instant connection. It happens.

 

 

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purpleandgreylife
4 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Would you accept a sexual partner disinterested in cuddling you or mostly refusing and allowing only on their terms?

 

Replace cuddling here by whatever your form of necessary intimacy is. Obviously other than sex.

Why do they refuse? Are they afraid/concerned that cuddling (or whatever physical intimacy) won't be enough and will make them want to push for sex? Do they hate cuddling* for other reasons that are unrelated to me? Are they doing this specifically to hurt me? Before I could tell you how I feel about that, I really would need to know, by having an open conversation, why they refuse to cuddle* with me.

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Telecaster68

Under the analogy, they just don't like cuddling anyone, ever. The 'why' isn't important - it's about how acceptable you'd find a partner who wasn't interested in going with whatever acts you find intimate.

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anamikanon

Say they aren't into cuddling to begin with and then there is also the risk of them feeling uninvitedly horny.

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anamikanon
3 hours ago, Philip027 said:

I'm not a really physical person (my only relationships have ever started online, if that's any indication) so I wouldn't be very fussed.

 

Oh.

 

Well, if there was no intimacy (I define it as more emotional than physical) in the first place, there wouldn't have been any relationship to begin with.

 

Your question reads off to me sorta like "would you still be satisfied with the meal if there was no food?" whereas I'd be sitting here like "...what meal?"  It's probably not what you intended, but it's paradoxical to me.

You understand what I mean. If it is a matter of word play, it can go both ways - if there already is intimacy, you don't need the sexual partner to act on your need for it.

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Galactic Turtle
5 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Replace cuddling here by whatever your form of necessary intimacy is. Obviously other than sex.

My preferred form of intimacy is hanging out usually because my friends insist. I'm perfectly fine simply keeping in contact with them via Facebook messenger. So... if they stopped messaging me... I guess I'd never hear from them again... and they'd be a pleasant memory. 

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Telecaster68

No sadness that you'd lost a friend?

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Galactic Turtle

@Telecaster68 Me? I've never "broken up" with a friend before. It's always been more like naturally drifting apart. So when I do recall them when talking to others, it's nice to remember the years we were close. Though if one were to suddenly cut off contact I'd definitely be bitter once I confirmed that they're not dead in a ditch somewhere. :blink:

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Telecaster68

I guess it's a difficulty analogy to make if it's about friends rather than partners.

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Galactic Turtle

@Telecaster68 Oh yeah. Maybe.... *crawls back into the bushes* 

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uhtred

I think physical interactions in a relationship don't leave a lot of room for compromise.  If a couple doesn't want the same things, there is going to be tension  / frustration.  Physical contact in a relationship should be something that brings a couple together, not drives them apart. (whatever level of physical interaction is desired). 

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Winter Spirit ❅

Asexuals are not meant to have sex.

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Telecaster68
Just now, Wish Bear 🌠 said:

Asexuals are not meant to have sex.

What does that have to do with the OP?

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Thea2
16 minutes ago, uhtred said:

I think physical interactions in a relationship don't leave a lot of room for compromise.  ...

Exactly. I cannot compromise with my body. Some things one cannot compromise on. E.g. one partner wants children and the other doesn’t.

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Telecaster68
11 minutes ago, Thea2 said:

I cannot compromise with my body.

Some people can't, but asexuals who are neutral or even enjoy sex surely can. @gaogao has just posted to this effect on the @anamikanon's other thread....

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