Logically I know. Emotionally it still gets hard

[anamikanon]

1 hour ago, FictoVore. said:

Thanks for your response, that's interesting. Imagine if things are still the same a few years down the line, do you think it would ever be more empathetic of him to not initiate intimate contact with you if he doesn't intend it to lead to sex? Would it be kinder to not leave you aroused and wanting more than he is willing to give?

No. Frankly, if that happens, I'm going to take him at his word and TELL him to masturbate me now. If he can't handle it (he says he can), we'll figure out what to do. It will be crazy awkward for me. I am just not the type to ask for sexual attention from an indifferent partner. But again, like the dating for poly, I'm resilient. I can go through temporary awkwardness and frankly some revulsion to see if that works and comes more naturally to us once he realizes what sort of situations are likely to have me wanting sex or simply gets used to masturbating me after doing specific things in cuddles. I don't know where this will go. Complete speculation.

 

But not having any physical intimacy at all will be worse, because he is also not able to articulate his feelings well. It will just add distance between us. I can take it. I am resilient.

 

1 hour ago, FictoVore. said:

I think this can be a really interesting aspect of mixed relationships to discuss as long as it can not lead to accusations and arguments, which you've sadly been caught in the middle of way to often recently through no fault of your own.

I think you and @Telecaster68need to make some effort to not arouse each other and cause frustrations. lol. Just ignore each other's posts for a while or on specific subjects.

 

1 hour ago, FictoVore. said:

I've heard things along those lines quite often from sexuals who have been in longer term mixed relationships. It gets to a point where even if the ace is naked and trying to have sex with them, they just push the ace away and go for a walk or whatever, because they've just spent too long not having their intimate (both emotional and physical) needs met and stop being able to want that contact with their partner. Obviously I hope it doesn't get to that point for you, but I know for me personally if my partner constantly refused my sexual advances I would end up wondering if maybe we should just be friends, I don't think I could take the feelings of rejection and not being wanted personally. Which is interesting considering my past and how we both met on an asexual site, both identifying as asexual  Hopefully things work out okay for you both

I can completely understand this. Though when I say I am resilient, it means I am able to keep a sense of perspective and not allow problems to splash all over my life. I recover easily too. Did a lot of selfwork to develop the skills, and they sure are coming in handy now.

 

I don't think aces are entitled to a level of oblivion where not only they must not be pressured for sex, but they absolutely don't care what they do to their partner. When we go to a meeting or the market or a dance club or swimming pool or wherever... we are aware of our impact on people. We don't land up in a bikini to school because we are oblivious to the impact of it on others. We don't make suggestive moves to strangers because we know they may take this as sexual. It isn't so hard to create a mental protocol for behavior with your partner that ensures you don't do certain kinds of things. This is nothing sexual, it is simply about being aware of our own impact on people. You don't have to understand sexual desire to understand you don't do something you wouldn't do with someone you didn't want getting too close - kind of thing. You may hug a platonic friend, you wouldn't run your fingers along their body. You wouldn't run your hands on their breasts without being explicitly allowed to.... that kind of a thing. Wanting to touch and snuggle is fine, but wanting to platonically fondle my breasts is a bit much. (edit: This may still work if he has masturbated me before it or intends to after it, or I have masturbated before he touches me. But if he hasn't touched me in a while, I AM going to go up in flames with something like that!) These things are common sense and should be understood even by an asexual.

 

Also the mileage will vary for different people. Some are more easily aroused. Some are more resigned to their partner's asexuality. I, for example feel arousal regularly, but my touch can be absolutely platonic unless it is a sexual situation. I know there is no point acting on it and I don't want my partner to feel pressured. I am not able to suppress my desire, but I can choose what I do about it. Similarly an ace can really get over their desire to touch everywhere platonically. They may want it, but it won't kill anyone to not have every single want satisfied to whim. I mean seriously. That said, occasionally accidentally arousing me is not the end of the world either. But it would be nice to see some consideration if he'd like the consideration of sex not being expected of him as a consequence.

 

Strictly about us - our unique situation and relationship and comfort levels and tolerance and etc

 

If all that doesn't work, I'd still like that contact, including losing my temper with him over it and what not rather than none. From the POV of his well being - if he wants to keep the kind of relationship he has with the one person on the planet who matters most to him, he is going to have to learn skills. There is no getting around that. Or he is going to have to figure out a less "full" sharing of life (which, in my case is likely to be completely limited to messaging - I simply don't go to meet people. Period). It is his call. As someone who knows him in and out, I am going to push him to figure this shit out. But pushing has limits. If he won't, or can't, at the end of the day, those are his consequences - even he was too stupid or entitled to see them coming.

 

He will have to learn those skills anyway - if he ever wants to have any kind of partner - even a QPR - you CANNOT remain oblivious to your partner and expect them to take it indefinitely - on any level, whether sex or otherwise.

[Telecaster68]

14 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

ah, that's why there's so many ecstatically happy sexual partners on AVEN, my bad, totally slipped my mind.

Eh?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Eh?

You said:

 

36 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I don't think that requires a perfect world. Meeting your partner half way isn't some ludicrous idealism, by definition.

If it wasn't 'ludicrous idealism' wouldn't there be a lot more ecstatically happy sexual partners on AVEN? Obviously, it's quite rare, or else there would be a lot more people who are very happy and completely content in their mixed relationships. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the way you worded it made it sound like it's really simple and easy and anyone can do it. If that was the case, the SPFA forums would be full of people rejoicing in their amazing and completely satisfying mixed relationships. When I used the term 'perfect world' I was just describing the perfect mixed situation for @anamikanon.. Obviously that's not happening right now and her partner does seem to be having trouble (at times at least) meeting her halfway, however if things could be 'perfect' they would be more like how I described with him actively wanting to masturbate her whenever she wants, maybe without her even needing to ask - he could just read her body language or whatever. Sadly though, very few people in mixed relationships are able to meet each other half way, even if that seems like it should be easy (and obviously it's also usually one doing a lot more compromising than the other which doesn't help)

 

22 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Just ignore each other's posts for a while or on specific subjects.

That would seem easier said than done, it's already happened just from me commenting here lol.

 

23 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

He will have to learn those skills anyway - if he ever wants to have any kind of partner - even a QPR - you CANNOT remain oblivious to your partner and expect them to take it indefinitely - on any level, whether sex or otherwise.

Yeah I definitely agree with this, regardless of whether you're sexual or ace or in a sexless relationship or a hypersexual relationship or 'just friends' or anything. If you're completely oblivious to the things the people around you need on a consistent basis, they will eventually start to pull away. Hopefully he can learn those skills so you can meet each other halfway and it's not just you putting in all the effort, that would be the ideal outcome.

[Telecaster68]

No, a perfect world would be one in which he put as much value on sex as she does. Her negotiating an agreement to be masturbated as though it's a back rub instead, is a compromise on her part, just as his agreeing to do it is a compromise. 

 

It doesn't take a utopian view of life to think that compromise between two people's needs is possible. It happens all the time, and as you've explained at great length several times, some asexuals do it just as much as sexuals.

 

Anam is doing it. However, her husband says he will then doesn't. 

 

You're saying expecting an asexual to follow through on their voluntary commitment is perfectionist idealism. I don't think it is. I think it's asking an adult in a relationship to behave like an adult in a relationship. 

 

A snark free reply would be much appreciated. 

[Tarfeather]

On 4.3.2018 at 10:18 AM, anamikanon said:

It has to be mutual. You can't expect malintent in either partner. Then you have nothing worth saving, nothing worth feeling the loss of. Might as well move on.

I tell that to myself every day, but sometimes that's hard to believe. Ironically, my asexual partner is one of the very few people in my life for whom this holds true, that's why I'm still with her despite our romantic and sexual incompatibility. Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to treat other people as tools who you have to push the right buttons on to get what you want, rather than treating them as independent, free-willed human beings. The latter seems to be much less commonly appreciated than people would have you believe.

 

9 hours ago, anamikanon said:

One thing I actively avoid is spooning. Like he rubs my back with his arms around me, he can rub my front... with all the asexualness of rubbing my back and that can get.... complicated. lol

This is funny because I've never actually been very close with a sexual woman, and sometimes I do those "arms around front rubs" with my partner, too. And yeah, she reacts as if I were rubbing her back. I always wondered, is that how all women are and my instincts about this are false, or is it just because she's asexual? Apparently the latter. Thanks for clarifying.

[Telecaster68]

No, Tar, most women do not react in the same way if you rub their back or front. 

 

Most men don't react the same way if they rub a woman's back or front either. 

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

A snark free reply would be much appreciated

Not trying to argue with me over every little pointless thing you pick apart in my posts and twist to mean something very different from what I clearly intended would be much appreciated. 

[alibali]

No it's likely in a perfect relationship. It is much harder in a relationship which includes sexual and asexual. Someone is always going to be frustrated and the other put upon. However much you each love each other.

[anamikanon]

Update: We are doing better. Had another talk, more cuddles and some sex too! That took me by surprise actually, as I was feeling too wired for sex, but sometimes I suppose my ace knows me better and he just ambushed me of sorts. It goes a long way toward reassuring that there is hope. I doubt this means any drastic changes, but he has definitely come back from whatever space he had been in when offering sex had simply vanished from his mind. This in itself is a huge huge deal.

 

Can't speak for all sexuals, but for me, more important than sex or the frequency of it or whatever is that he wants to do it - at whatever his level is, including simply to be close to me or give me what I enjoy. I don't care if he can't or doesn't do it too often as long as he doesn't forget it altogether.

[purpleandgreylife]

9 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Update: We are doing better. Had another talk, more cuddles and some sex too! That took me by surprise actually, as I was feeling too wired for sex, but sometimes I suppose my ace knows me better and he just ambushed me of sorts. It goes a long way toward reassuring that there is hope. I doubt this means any drastic changes, but he has definitely come back from whatever space he had been in when offering sex had simply vanished from his mind. This in itself is a huge huge deal.

 

Can't speak for all sexuals, but for me, more important than sex or the frequency of it or whatever is that he wants to do it - at whatever his level is, including simply to be close to me or give me what I enjoy. I don't care if he can't or doesn't do it too often as long as he doesn't forget it altogether.

 

I'm glad things are getting better for you! I hope they continue to improve.