Logically I know. Emotionally it still gets hard

[anamikanon]

My ace come back in a few hours and I'm considering asking him if he wants to end our relationship on a sexual level altogether. Transition to some form of platonic. It isn't going to be an easy discussion, as there are pluses and minuses for both of us. I can live without sex with a person if it simply is no longer a part of the relationship. Or if I can't, I will learn to. I don't get sex between relationships, right?

 

Downside, one we will both miss, but I can't think my way around is that this means he can't sleep in my bedroom though he can certainly share it in the day and cuddle and what not. I don't think I can give up masturbating in my own bed or walking around naked in my room and so on in addition to not having a sexual relationship. Besides, if he is around, I am going to feel attracted. And I don't think I'll feel comfortable being naked around someone I am not having sex with. It will definitely mean an overall downgrade in our relationship and I am slightly worried about falling out of love altogether - I have never been in love with someone and lived with them and in separate rooms. I don't even know what that means in terms of the relationship surviving, since I am highly likely to spend my day in my space - as I do currently, but right now he's part of that space. It will almost amount to being out of my daily routine altogether. I like having him in my space, but the constant stress generated in my personal space by me NOT being asexual is not sustainable. I can do asexual just fine with someone I'm not in a relationship with.

 

We are "making do" which he's fine with given that he doesn't think of sex at all and has a perfectly normal life while I am literally getting mentally shredded by this. This is the third day I haven't slept at all. I can't stand this constant drama. And the drama will happen while I continue to want sex resulting in daily mind fucks and frustration. My work is suffering, my son is getting neglected, my health is suffering. The only thing that seems to go well is cuddling. This is not worth it. Affection and cuddling while my life is being undermined is not what a relationship should be. I love him dearly, but I have to accept that he cannot love me in the manner I need.

 

There are downsides. MASSIVE ones. I love him. I am going to miss having him in my space. But on the whole this is going to be a heavily selfish move. I can still meet him whenever I wish. In that sense I won't be losing much other than physical intimacy. He is going to be devastated. Utterly destroyed. I am the center of his world. He literally felt he had no one in the world till he met me. He moved cities in order to be able to be with me. He doesn't feel understood by a single other person. He knows exactly what my space means to me and what it means if he no longer belongs in it by default. The rest of the world might as well not exist for me for the most part. He has severe issues with self esteem, anxiety, depression. He will be plagued by fear of losing me altogether and I can't even assure him the fear is baseless. Even forgetting love and relationship and everything, the magnitude of what this will do to him literally makes me hesitate on a humanitarian level. He loves me, I love him. This doesn't feel right to seek relief at the cost of a loved one's pain.

 

I am more resilient of the two of us in a sense of being able to take adversity. Part of me wants to continue to manage as we are. This guarantees that the constant drama will continue as well. I don't know how to NOT want sexual intimacy in a relationship. Even in terms of when I am not in one, I masturbate frequently. Continuing is going to continue to eat away at my well being. Moving out is going to destroy his belief in himself altogether. I am not able to accept the consequences to him in this choice. Consequences to me for not acting are not endurable.

 

Falling out of love with him is not an option that will enrich anyone's life. He is GOOD for me. And vice versa. Kid and he have their own, very loving relationship. Neither of us are the type to find this kind of closeness in a relationship easily in the future.

 

Now what.

 

Edit: "Manage as we are" = having sex when he feels willing to offer, which is not often. Me desiring him daily, but not acting on it unless I sense that he may be ok - which is not often. Him accepting some of the times and masturbating me and refusing at other times. I hear what aces say about the "constant pain of refusing their sexual" and all that, but frankly, that is not in evidence in our home at least. If there isn't a demand for sex, he isn't thinking about it at all. No question of stress. And I never pressure him for sex. But this constant keeping my hands off is frustrating me and making me feel undesired and unhappy beyond belief.

[squaggly]

18 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

My ace come back in a few hours and I'm considering asking him if he wants to end our relationship on a sexual level altogether. Transition to some form of platonic. It isn't going to be an easy discussion, as there are pluses and minuses for both of us. I can live without sex with a person if it simply is no longer a part of the relationship. Or if I can't, I will learn to. I don't get sex between relationships, right?

 

Downside, one we will both miss, but I can't think my way around is that this means he can't sleep in my bedroom though he can certainly share it in the day and cuddle and what not. I don't think I can give up masturbating in my own bed or walking around naked in my room and so on in addition to not having a sexual relationship. Besides, if he is around, I am going to feel attracted. And I don't think I'll feel comfortable being naked around someone I am not having sex with. It will definitely mean an overall downgrade in our relationship and I am slightly worried about falling out of love altogether - I have never been in love with someone and lived with them and in separate rooms. I don't even know what that means in terms of the relationship surviving, since I am highly likely to spend my day in my space - as I do currently, but right now he's part of that space. It will almost amount to being out of my daily routine altogether. I like having him in my space, but the constant stress generated in my personal space by me NOT being asexual is not sustainable. I can do asexual just fine with someone I'm not in a relationship with.

 

We are "making do" which he's fine with given that he doesn't think of sex at all and has a perfectly normal life while I am literally getting mentally shredded by this. This is the third day I haven't slept at all. I can't stand this constant drama. And the drama will happen while I continue to want sex resulting in daily mind fucks and frustration. My work is suffering, my son is getting neglected, my health is suffering. The only thing that seems to go well is cuddling. This is not worth it. Affection and cuddling while my life is being undermined is not what a relationship should be. I love him dearly, but I have to accept that he cannot love me in the manner I need.

 

There are downsides. MASSIVE ones. I love him. I am going to miss having him in my space. But on the whole this is going to be a heavily selfish move. I can still meet him whenever I wish. In that sense I won't be losing much other than physical intimacy. He is going to be devastated. Utterly destroyed. I am the center of his world. He literally felt he had no one in the world till he met me. He moved cities in order to be able to be with me. He doesn't feel understood by a single other person. He knows exactly what my space means to me and what it means if he no longer belongs in it by default. The rest of the world might as well not exist for me for the most part. He has severe issues with self esteem, anxiety, depression. He will be plagued by fear of losing me altogether and I can't even assure him the fear is baseless. Even forgetting love and relationship and everything, the magnitude of what this will do to him literally makes me hesitate on a humanitarian level. He loves me, I love him. This doesn't feel right to seek relief at the cost of a loved one's pain.

 

I am more resilient of the two of us in a sense of being able to take adversity. Part of me wants to continue to manage as we are. This guarantees that the constant drama will continue as well. I don't know how to NOT want sexual intimacy in a relationship. Even in terms of when I am not in one, I masturbate frequently. Continuing is going to continue to eat away at my well being. Moving out is going to destroy his belief in himself altogether. I am not able to accept the consequences to him in this choice. Consequences to me for not acting are not endurable.

 

Falling out of love with him is not an option that will enrich anyone's life. He is GOOD for me. And vice versa. Kid and he have their own, very loving relationship. Neither of us are the type to find this kind of closeness in a relationship easily in the future.

 

Now what.

 

Edit: "Manage as we are" = having sex when he feels willing to offer, which is not often. Me desiring him daily, but not acting on it unless I sense that he may be ok - which is not often. Him accepting some of the times and masturbating me and refusing at other times. I hear what aces say about the "constant pain of refusing their sexual" and all that, but frankly, that is not in evidence in our home at least. If there isn't a demand for sex, he isn't thinking about it at all. No question of stress. And I never pressure him for sex. But this constant keeping my hands off is frustrating me and making me feel undesired and unhappy beyond belief.

I don't see why you couldn't sleep in the same room. If you can resist the temptation of having sex when he doesn't want it and he understands you don't want to give up those other things, I think it would be fine to be in the same room. And maybe when he's feeling horny when you want sex he could do it for you. Going on to my next point, you don't have to give it up entirely. If he wants it, the sex would be great. You would just need to be able to deal with significantly less.

[anamikanon]

10 minutes ago, squaggly said:

I don't see why you couldn't sleep in the same room. If you can resist the temptation of having sex when he doesn't want it and he understands you don't want to give up those other things, I think it would be fine to be in the same room. And maybe when he's feeling horny when you want sex he could do it for you. Going on to my next point, you don't have to give it up entirely. If he wants it, the sex would be great. You would just need to be able to deal with significantly less.

It is hard to explain to someone who doesn't understand the nature of desire. Think of it like this. You're working on something very important needing discussion with a project partner. Every time you say something or ask something they go "huh?" because they haven't been listening at all. So you explain yourself. Sometimes they hear you, other times they lose focus midway and suddenly go "huh?" all over again. So you explain it all over again. Midway through your talking they go out of the room. Return after an hour and ask "so you were saying...?". Working on that project gets very hard and you start thinking it is easier to do it yourself than have someone around who doesn't care about it. Of course, the other may be an eccentric genius who may make the occasional highly important input, but the actual slog of the project becomes unmanageable because you don't know when they'll be interested or not or what they'll do next.

[squaggly]

1 minute ago, anamikanon said:

It is hard to explain to someone who doesn't understand the nature of desire. Think of it like this. You're working on something very important needing discussion with a project partner. Every time you say something or ask something they go "huh?" because they haven't been listening at all. So you explain yourself. Sometimes they hear you, other times they lose focus midway and suddenly go "huh?" all over again. So you explain it all over again. Midway through your talking they go out of the room. Return after an hour and ask "so you were saying...?". Working on that project gets very hard and you start thinking it is easier to do it yourself than have someone around who doesn't care about it. Of course, the other may be an eccentric genius who may make the occasional highly important input, but the actual slog of the project becomes unmanageable because you don't know when they'll be interested or not or what they'll do next.

That does sound infuriating, but imagine being kicked out of your room with an explanation you don't understand, and not seeing the point of it. I'm afraid that the view from the other person could be a lot worse.

[anamikanon]

2 minutes ago, squaggly said:

That does sound infuriating, but imagine being kicked out of your room with an explanation you don't understand, and not seeing the point of it. I'm afraid that the view from the other person could be a lot worse.

I know. I don't think I am going to look into his face and feel able to do it or even want to inflict it on him. It isn't so much about being kicked out of his room. He actually has a room he never uses other than to keep some of his stuff and change/bathe or take occasional work calls. It is being kicked out of mine, currently ours - he knows very well that this space is the "real world" for me - stuff outside that space I "visit" and return to my space. To not belong in that space is as good as not being party to the most important part of my life.

 

I am not at all denying that this will be very hard for him. I am literally his whole world. And not being sensitive to sexual tension at all, he doesn't even feel there is anything wrong. If I did this, it would blindside him totally.

 

The alternative is to continue as we are. Which is also very hard for me. But you are right. I can't do this. I am so getting a month's worth of backrubs from him for this.

 

[squaggly]

 why is life so hard??

[gaogao]

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

I hear what aces say about the "constant pain of refusing their sexual" and all that, but frankly, that is not in evidence in our home at least.

I dunno, it is painful when we think about what we are inflicting on our partners, and I genuinely think "what is wrong with me?" "why am I so broken" "why can't I just enjoy myself" on a regular basis... but i don't think it's constant in the same way because it's not like we're the ones who are being reminded all the time of what isn't happening?  If our partner is reminding us all the time of how little we put out, that would be incredibly manipulative and the relationship wouldn't be healthy - it does happen sometimes (probably more commonly with relationships where the ace partner doesn't know they are asexual and sex is highly expected in the relationship) - and there are some people who are more sensitive to subconcious feelings than others (I'm quite empathetic so I can feel my partner's frustration even if she's hiding it), which is painful for me, but usually i genuinely kind of forget - if she doesn't seem bothered by my not initiating anything I'll think things are 100% okay even if they aren't.

 

I asked my partner what it was like once and why she was frustrated and she said it was kind of like the smell of someone cooking something delicious in another room all the time - sometimes you can ignore the smell but when you're hungry and it's been a while, it's like torture. I try to be sensitive about this but I can't always tell whether my partner is cranky because i've forgotten to do something stupid (like not taking out the trash for three days even though i promised) or if she's a bit cranky because she's frustrated that I haven't initiated anything with her for a while. 

 

I think you've got every right to be frustrated and sad... I don't really have any solutions but maybe this is one way to frame it to your partner making it clear without guilting him and also in a way that he understands? 

[anamikanon]

4 minutes ago, gaogao said:

I dunno, it is painful when we think about what we are inflicting on our partners,

Frankly, I'm not sure he gets what he is "inflicting" on me. I think he doesn't really believe I could want that much sex or that not getting it feels this bad. I think he interprets it more as "disappointment" - like "Damnit, my favorite restaurant is closed today". And particularly since I don't pressure him a lot, I don't think he spends too much time thinking about it. We've discussed it, and I've told him, and he promises to do more...

 

I'm pretty sure he sees my instances when I can't bear it anymore and have an outburst as isolated really bad times and the rest being mild disappointment or something.

 

Frankly, I don't even know if he should know the depth of what I feel. If he can't do much about it, it will only mean two unhappy people. I've read what you guys post about feeling terrible about refusing. Not sure if it is something that should be added to someone's life experience if they can't do much about it by nature. What will be achieved? I don't want him martyring himself to my sex drive anyway.

 

4 minutes ago, gaogao said:

I think you've got every right to be frustrated and sad... I don't really have any solutions but maybe this is one way to frame it to your partner making it clear without guilting him and also in a way that he understands? 

I will try that. Not sure I want him to know how badly I hurt if he can't do much about it, but I can try asking for more sex. and sort of putting it in ways that he sees it is important to me.

[Telecaster68]

9 minutes ago, gaogao said:

I asked my partner what it was like once and why she was frustrated and she said it was kind of like the smell of someone cooking something delicious in another room all the time - sometimes you can ignore the smell but when you're hungry and it's been a while, it's like torture. I try to be sensitive about this but I can't always tell whether my partner is cranky because i've forgotten to do something stupid (like not taking out the trash for three days even though i promised) or if she's a bit cranky because she's frustrated that I haven't initiated anything with her for a while.

The food analogy isn't bad, but you have to add in your partner sitting in front of you completely unperturbed because they're not hungry and they don't the food that's being cooked anyway... it can be infuriating. And you're right, if they don't know they're asexual then they'll just feel bad. And we'll feel bad because they feel bad, so we shut up about it, which makes it even more frustrating...

 

Not talking about it is tricky. Clearly pestering and hectoring isn't acceptable, but my experience (and plenty of other sexuals on here too), is that if we never mention it, it slips completely off our partner's radar, and it also seems so incredibly unfair that there's this huge issue in the relationship and we're unhappy about it, and we can't even mention it. 

 

As to the 'are they grousing about putting the bins out or what?' issue... the answer is both. If we weren't frustrated, little things like putting the bins out wouldn't spark irritation.

[gaogao]

24 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

I think he doesn't really believe I could want that much sex or that not getting it feels this bad.

TBH I think this is true - he probably doesn't know how bad you feel. I know I definitely didn't?? It took me a really long time to understand and I found it really hard to get my head around how my partner felt about sex because I had absolutely no logical point of reference for it in my own life. I spent the majority of my life thinking everyone was exaggerating about crushes and enjoying sex in school etc etc. -- I think the only reason anything sank in is because I tend to be quite empathic and I can tell when someone is hurting or in pain and I was feeling really intensely how hurt my partner was. That was the only reason I think I even vaguely understood ;; otherwise everyone tends to assume people are like them... and I think my partner actually didn't understand how little I understood from her end - she had the impression that I might 'warm up' but she's seen how clueless I am now. 

 

IMO i think you do need to tell your partner point blank how much it's hurting you. Obviously not in a manipulative way - but in a like, 'putting it out there in a way that he sees it's important' way, but also spelling it out clearly. Communicating is key? If you just keep asking for sex he might not understand why and feel pressured -- and I think he needs to make an effort to understand where it's coming from because it means a lot to you... and if you mean a lot to him, which it sounds like, he will hopefully at least try to understand..? I mean, that's what I have tried to do with my partner...

 

20 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

you have to add in your partner sitting in front of you completely unperturbed because they're not hungry and they don't the food that's being cooked anyway

I think this also makes sense - when you say it like that, it sounds a bit like gaslighting, doesn't it? If you feel like you're going crazy because holy shit you can smell the food?? the food smells delicious??? but your partner's like, "I don't smell anything? Also I don't really want to eat anything - why do you want to eat? I'm never really hungry anyway," you're going to start feeling crazy... 

 

idk maybe that analogy got away from me. 

 

20 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

if we never mention it, it slips completely off our partner's radar

THIS IS TRUE THOUGH -- i notice i do forget completely if my partner doesn't mention it ;; and I'm someone who tries to be mindful..it's only when i start to feel like she's upset/cranky when i'm like, shit, oh my god, i forgot :T I'll keep that in mind about the bins too though orz ///

[Telecaster68]

2 minutes ago, gaogao said:

idk maybe that analogy got away from me. 

No, it works. Also - the smell of cooking is there all the time, and you're not allowed to go out to eat...

 

I don't doubt it's true asexuals forget about sex, which is why scheduling sex sometimes works. The first time I had The Talk, my wife was utterly blindsided. This was after months of no sex, and her apparently oblivious to the amount of times I'd tried to initiate and been knocked back.

 

You sound like you're really working with your partner on it, and I hope it works out. I think my perspective gets a bit darkened because my wife is really unempathetic, and has flat refused to even put a reminder to hug me on her phone, because it's 'unromantic'...

[anamikanon]

3 hours ago, gaogao said:

I try to be sensitive about this but I can't always tell whether my partner is cranky because i've forgotten to do something stupid (like not taking out the trash for three days even though i promised) or if she's a bit cranky because she's frustrated that I haven't initiated anything with her for a while. 

For what it is worth, as the sexual partner of an ace, I can tell you that even if the issue is the trash, offering sex will work wonders to improve how she sees it while you figure it out. 

 

[anamikanon]

So... we did talk about it. He could see that I was upset. Asked. I was frozen. I had no idea how to explain without making him feel cornered. Tried. Failed. Finally gave him the link to this thread so that he could read it from various perspectives rather than me talking alone and him seeing it as a demand for more sex or.... again seeing it as a one off upset.

 

We talked. Held each other. Cried. Cracked a few frustrated jokes about asexuality and sexuality. He suggested that we perhaps have a code I can use when I'd like sex and used a really corny line. We laughed some more. Sobered again......

 

I don't know what happens next, but I at least think he finally understands that his disinterest in sex can hit me really bad in a constant manner rather than mild occasional disappointment and he doesn't want me hurting.

 

On my part, I stressed that this did not mean I wanted him courting discomfort to offer me sex - he knows this well. I've reacted with unqualified horror when I've felt like I pressured him into sex. He knows that this is not "pleasure" at all for me, I am not worried he will do it to please me, because he knows it won't please me. But I do think that he could easily offer more often if he remembered to do it, and I think he will probably try to remember. I don't know.

 

On my part, I told him that if he remembered, but wasn't in the mood, simply hearing "I know you probably would like to have sex, but I am not feeling up for it" will work, because I will at least hear that he cared enough to remember, even if he was not able to offer. In the sense that he does not have to push himself to discomfort. EVER.

[Twisters]

Congrats @anamikanon

 

it it seems like you found something that could work for both you AND your partner!!!!

 

 isn’t tjat what we all look for??

 

well done you!

[anamikanon]

Too early to say what happens next, but yesterday, I think for the first time he realized what it does to me and was really upset because sex really doesn't bother him that much, particularly masturbating me, which he doesn't mind at all. He was pretty explicit in explaining that him being reluctant about sex didn't cover masturbating me (this does not make sense to a sexual, but it is what it is). That stress is specifically about PIV sex, because then he has to focus on things like getting hard, staying hard and what not, which becomes a drag if he isn't already horny. And he just doesn't feel up for it most times, because asexual.

 

He pretty specifically told me that I could ask him to masturbate me any time that I normally ask him for a backrub and in his mind it isn't all that different. He loves doing both, because I love both. To the point that if I thought it was a sexy move, I could grab his hand and put it where I wanted it to be without any worry that he'd feel pressured. And he'd tell me if on some rare occasion he was feeling too tired (from the day) = same as for a backrub. 

 

He didn't even realize I was feeling this sexually neglected to begin with in order to be disappointed, because he thought we did this already - as in he was already offering this. In other words, most of the times when I thought I initiated sex and he wasn't interested, he hadn't even realized I wanted sex. Gawd, this guy needs "CLUELESS" stamped on his forehead. He senses absolutely no difference in me carressing him as a cuddle or because I am horny. A cuddle is a cuddle. A cuddle wanting more is a cuddle. *shaking head in utter disbelief* Seriously?

 

So much for "feeling the constant pressure for sex" some aces here go through. I said he didn't look pressured. Now I know Mr. Clueless didn't even notice the request. 4 years into the relationship. WOW.

 

This changes everything. I'm not a fan of PIV sex to the point that I'd fuss over it while climaxing happily in my partners arms. I climax better with his hands anyway.

 

Trust an ace to think masturbating your partner or receiving oral sex has "nothing to do with sex" in the "exhausting" way. I swear there needs to be an English to English translation service for this kind of stuff.

 

Though I'm not sure what this translates into in practice. It is also something he has never experienced (on demand sex) so he is speaking from his imagination. That said, he pretty much rubs my back every time he gets his arms around me, because he knows I love it. Now seeing the potential here... We will find out. But if it works out as it is sounding like it could work out, I'd have a pretty "blissfully sexed out of my wits" sex life with an ace! 

[Tarfeather]

16 hours ago, anamikanon said:

On my part, I stressed that this did not mean I wanted him courting discomfort to offer me sex - he knows this well. I've reacted with unqualified horror when I've felt like I pressured him into sex. He knows that this is not "pleasure" at all for me, I am not worried he will do it to please me, because he knows it won't please me.

There really is a huge difference between being explicit about how much you desire sex, and pressuring someone. Of course, a lot of people don't understand this difference between expressing something and trying to get something out of the other person (part of the reason I have hardly any friends). But I think with a close partner it's very important to practice this, your situation being a good example of that. Apparently he genuinely didn't understand how much of an issue it is for you. By talking openly and making it clear that you're only expressing yourself, not trying to manipulate him, such situations can be avoided.

 

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

That stress is specifically about PIV sex, because then he has to focus on things like getting hard, staying hard and what not, which becomes a drag if he isn't already horny. And he just doesn't feel up for it most times, because asexual.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Honestly, I can even relate to him on that, and I'm sexual. You need to be really in sync with your partner for the whole "being hard" thing to work out, and with a sexual / asexual mismatch, that's generally very difficult.

[Telecaster68]

2 hours ago, anamikanon said:

most of the times when I thought I initiated sex and he wasn't interested, he hadn't even realized I wanted sex. Gawd, this guy needs "CLUELESS" stamped on his forehead. He senses absolutely no difference in me carressing him as a cuddle or because I am horny. A cuddle is a cuddle. A cuddle wanting more is a cuddle. *shaking head in utter disbelief* Seriously?

 

So much for "feeling the constant pressure for sex" some aces here go through. I said he didn't look pressured. Now I know Mr. Clueless didn't even notice the request. 4 years into the relationship. WOW.

I had a similar conversation with my wife, 15 years in. In her case since I was doing exactly what I'd always done to initiate when she did realise, and that conversation didn't lead to any change in her behaviour, I think there's a level of being disingenuous. Similarly over this terrible pressure trope. Nope. Not all of them - or if they are, they're lying about their obliviousness. 

 

If it is lying or a kind of wilful blindness, I can understand it. It's human to not want to admit less than perfect behaviour, but let's not make all asexuals into poor martyred heroes, because they're not, just as not all sexuals are. 

[Telecaster68]

1 hour ago, Tarfeather said:

By talking openly and making it clear that you're only expressing yourself

This is true, but the problem is the level of apparent asexual obliviousness to cues that would work perfectly well with sexuals. I can only think that someone who never gets turned on can't recognise when their partner is feeling it, and when they're not feeling it.  This is not something that occurs to sexuals as a possibility so we work on the basis that as with a sexual partner, they know what's going on. 

[anamikanon]

9 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I had a similar conversation with my wife, 15 years in. In her case since I was doing exactly what I'd always done to initiate when she did realise, and that conversation didn't lead to any change in her behaviour, I think there's a level of being disingenuous. Similarly over this terrible pressure trope. Nope. Not all of them - or if they are, they're lying about their obliviousness. 

 

If it is lying or a kind of wilful blindness, I can understand it. It's human to not want to admit less than perfect behaviour, but let's not make all asexuals into poor martyred heroes, because they're not, just as not all sexuals are. 

I hope you don't take this wrong, @Telecaster68but obliviousness is not deliberate. In fact, it is the opposite of deliberate. We tend to not notice things we are not interested in. From a sexual POV, this is cluelessness beyond belief, really, it is cluelessness. When he finally realized yesterday what all he was completely oblivious to, he was devastated. Particularly when he realized I'd been trying to tell him exactly this for years, but he simply had not believed the magnitude. Because it made no sense to him.

 

Frankly, if he were not able to offer sex, this would be very traumatic for him. He most certainly doesn't want this for me. Equally, I would probably have never told him if I were not dead certain he does enjoy sex on occasion and he does not mind masturbating me whenever he has done it. Because if there were nothing he could do, I wouldn't see the point in both of us being traumatized.

 

In that sense, the people whose partners have told them so that they can't miss it, or those who are perceptive enough to catch that there is something here, and realize it is a desire for sex that they don't themselves feel... I can understand the martyrdom. They don't have the comfort of oblivion. For my partner, our relationship was going fantastic! Mine would probably agree to PIV sex daily too if he thought that I absolutely couldn't exist in the relationship without it. Though of course he won't, because he knows well I can be happy with what we have. He has seen me happy with our sex, like I have seen him enjoy it too, so I was confident he is not distressed by it. Because losing me is really not an option. If that is what it took to keep me, he'd damn well give it a shot.

 

In that sense I do understand the desperation that would drive such choices - even though I don't agree it is right. If my partner did it, I'd kick him out because I'd be terrified of his stupid ideas turning me into a user.

 

I agree that all asexuals don't (and shouldn't!) do this.

 

It has to be mutual. You can't expect malintent in either partner. Then you have nothing worth saving, nothing worth feeling the loss of. Might as well move on.

[anamikanon]

I think a golden line should be that if something distresses you to the point it takes over your day/life with apprehension/unhappiness/pain, it is not right. Sure, when differences are vast, I can understand courting discomfort or even pain to bridge them partially, because they matter and it is worth it. For example my irritation and exhaustion with the poly attempts. They are distressing, but have no impact on the quality of my life overall. Those people are irrelevant, their small talk and perma-horniness is irrelevant. When not dealing with them, they are out of my mind completely. This is a doable compromise, even if unpleasant. If I found myself thinking that I MUST find another partner to save my relationship and dreading the next chat or phone call or meeting with some random candidate who seemed nice.... or if I felt pressured to accept someone I hadn't clicked with just to get it over with or something... I wouldn't do it. And we haven't even got to the sex parts yet. The closest I've been to anyone is a handshake, which I pretty much allow anyone.

[Telecaster68]

3 hours ago, anamikanon said:

bliviousness is not deliberate. In fact, it is the opposite of deliberate. We tend to not notice things we are not interested in. From a sexual POV, this is cluelessness beyond belief, really, it is cluelessness. When he finally realized yesterday what all he was completely oblivious to, he was devastated

Oh, I agree in a lot of cases (though as you point out, someone can't be both oblivious and tortured by the thing they're oblivious of). I think in some cases, there's some combination of not being interested and not wanting to be interested, either because of underlying repulsion, or because your sexual relationship with your partner is a Big Scary Thing for asexuals, and everybody can be averse to facing up to that kind of thing.

 

My personal experience differs from yours - even when my wife was faced with me literally in tears, depressed (properly, as in needing therapy), or frustrated, or angry, or sympathetic, or offering practical ways forward, she wasn't devastated, she was still uncomprehending and showed little interest in trying to understand. If she's not completely comfortable with not being able to be offer sex, she's not uncomfortable enough with it to do anything much about it. She's certainly not traumatised (and to the inevitable outcry from asexuals of how she's probably suffering in silence: I know her, you don't). Even if I'm wrong, and she is, simply shrugging it off as 'too difficult' isn't acceptable; it's saying 'your deepest needs aren't important enough for me to address'. 

 

Not just with sex, but other things too, she has a tendency to minimise and ignore things she doesn't want to deal with. It's not malintent on her part, more like the legal concept of negligence. So why do I stay? The usual complicated interplay of history, money, inertia, and ultimately my own issues (which again, she shows little interest in supporting me over). I'm well on the way to sorting out the last of those, so things may change.

[GLRDT]

On 3/1/2018 at 9:33 AM, gaogao said:

I can't speak for all asexuals who say they can like sex, but as an asexual in a mixed relationship who has said it in the past (possibly to you?), I have to be clear and say that having fully consensual, fun, enjoyable sex still puts a lot of strain on me mentally/emotionally, IMO.. especially on a long term basis.

 

it's a bit like how I feel after going to a rock concert. Left alone, I would never choose to go to a rock concert and I would be happy to never go again (I am easily overwhelmed by loud sounds and am very uncomfortable in large crowds) but I do actually enjoy myself when I go, especially when it's for a band I like. On the other hand, as much as I enjoy myself, being in such a crowded place with loud sounds will still drain me physically and emotionally afterwards and I need a significant amount of time to mentally adjust and recover -- which I think is still a sacrifice both for me and for my friends who have had to lug me along and take care of me at every concert I've ever been to.

 

Replace this with anything you've ever enjoyed but wouldn't necessarily do again because it took a lot of preparation and effort... (albeit mentally) i.e. sky diving, running a marathon, going on a 16 hour road trip to disneyland. ETC. ETC.

 

I think it's a bit like that with sex, too.. which is a sacrifice on both my and my partner's part. /shrug

So much yes. This exactly for me too.

[anamikanon]

Update: Zero change. In fact, he does not appear to remember the conversation at all. I used the corny code words he suggested, we laughed at them like a joke, but it didn't trigger him to remember a thing. He's cuddled tons but not been interested in knowing how I'm doing.

 

At this point I don't care if he just doesn't have relationship skills or is excessively oblivious or plain selfish. I think I need to figure out for myself how to handle this. Giving it a day or two. He's been traveling a lot. Tired, etc. If there is still no change, I'm going to insist he goes to his room to work for the day. It was intended as an office for him to work from when he moved here (I work from my bedroom and am paranoid about my space, so wanted us both to have our own areas if things got too much). He used it for a few days, then decided he preferred it here in my bedroom where we can snuggle on and off through the day.

 

But I can't take this 24/7 contact AND not be attracted AND not pressurize him AND he won't offer. I don't want to ask directly myself till I'm certain he's recovered from travel.

 

I can handle this if he spends his day or at least several hours a day there. I will probably masturbate myself before he comes back. But it is fine. No big deal. But one way or the other, I'm going to suggest he not be around me this much and give me some private space, since he doesn't seem to have an inclination to participate in my preferred private activities.

 

Or I'll leave him in the bedroom and go use his office to work from.

 

Trying not to lose my temper here, but frankly, I'm SICK of pulling all the load of making this relationship work. I love him, but it really is time for a kick in the butt for him to either learn to adapt to the fact that there are two preferences in this relationship or adapt to my unilateral decisions about how my problems should be handled.

[Telecaster68]

I'm sorry it didn't work out, but I have to admit not really surprised. 

 

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

it really is time for a kick in the butt for him to ... adapt to my unilateral decisions about how my problems should be handled.

Yep. You've had no choice but to adapt to his unilateral decisions about his problems, after all.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

But I can't take this 24/7 contact AND not be attracted AND not pressurize him AND he won't offer. 

Out of interest, if he did want to snuggle and hug and kiss you all the time, but he never wanted that to turn to sex and even if he allowed it to you could tell he wasn't really into the sex, just doing it for your sake, would you still want to snuggle and hug and kiss him? Or would it be too much having that constant intimate contact while knowing he never actually wants sex? Would the snuggling etc increase your sexual desire to the extent you'd rather have no snuggling and less contact if no sex is happening, or would you be able to be fully satisfied and happy with just snuggling and kissing and intimate contact that never led to sex?

[anamikanon]

1 minute ago, FictoVore. said:

Out of interest, if he did want to snuggle and hug and kiss you all the time, but he never wanted that to turn to sex and even if he allowed it to you could tell he wasn't really into the sex, just doing it for your sake, would you still want to snuggle and hug and kiss him? Or would it be too much having that constant intimate contact while knowing he never actually wants sex? Would the snuggling etc increase your sexual desire to the extent you'd rather have no snuggling and less contact if no sex is happening, or would you be able to be fully satisfied and happy with just snuggling and kissing and intimate contact that never led to sex?

I enjoy snuggling him. It is just that I get horny. If I can anticipate it, I'll have a quickie with my vibrator, which sort of makes it a bit easier (feels like an afterplay rather than foreplay. lol). He usually doesn't do sex "for my sake" - I am not sure he is able. He's got complex stuff going on in his head and even maintaining arousal can be hard unless the sex initiates from there. He does masturbate me and I love it or like it or am.... ok with it depending on my mood and his level of interest. We snuggle after he has masturbated me as well. We snuggle with/without sex happening. He is a lot into physical contact.

 

One thing I actively avoid is spooning. Like he rubs my back with his arms around me, he can rub my front... with all the asexualness of rubbing my back and that can get.... complicated. lol

 

I mostly enjoy it , but it can get very frustrating at times. I still enjoy it, but.... it is what it is.

 

He has a ton of psychological issues and mostly lives inside his own head. He cares about me, but I don't think he relates normally in the sense of even being aware of me as a human being when he isn't directly thinking of how much I matter to him. So the efforts to remember and everything must be taken in that context. He will definitely make an effort to remember to offer sex, if he can remember to make the effort, kind fo thing. He isn't evil, but this can get really infuriating and hurtful even if he would never intend it. He has several ASD type issues - wouldn't be surprised if this oblivion were a part of all that going on. At times, I have to accept that this is the "limit" of how he is able to love. But there also is no denying that I am the center of his world.

 

On rare occasions, if I am in a really black mood, I HATE being touched and will move away. That is because I have just had enough of blind cuddles to comfort me that are oblivious to what I REALLY need. It is like giving someone a cut and then offering first aid.

 

It is complicated

[alibali]

You are expecting him  to "offer something which wouldn't occur to him if you didn't want it.  I am an asexual who did "offer" but really I couldn't understand the point or why they wanted it so much.  I've read enough now to realise how important it is intellectually but I certainly don't feel it.

[Guest]

Thanks for your response, that's interesting. Imagine if things are still the same a few years down the line, do you think it would ever be more empathetic of him to not initiate intimate contact with you if he doesn't intend it to lead to sex? Would it be kinder to not leave you aroused and wanting more than he is willing to give?

 

I'm asking because it's been a point of hot debate around here lately, whether or not it's kinder for the asexual to NOT initiate any kind of any intimate contact they may want if they do not wish that contact to lead to their partner having unfulfilled desire. Obviously in the perfect world, both partners would meet each other half way, so if you became aroused from intimate contact that he initiated then he would masturbate you, which is easier for him because it's not exactly 'sex' from his perspective as the rest of his body isn't involved.. so that way you'd both be getting the contact you desire. But if he never wanted sex, never wanted to masturbate you, would it be kinder not to put you in situations that will leave you aroused and desiring sexual intimacy? Or would having any form of intimate contact be preferable to none?

 

I think this can be a really interesting aspect of mixed relationships to discuss as long as it can not lead to accusations and arguments, which you've sadly been caught in the middle of way to often recently through no fault of your own.

 

13 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

if I am in a really black mood, I HATE being touched and will move away. That is because I have just had enough of blind cuddles to comfort me that are oblivious to what I REALLY need. It is like giving someone a cut and then offering first aid.

 

I've heard things along those lines quite often from sexuals who have been in longer term mixed relationships. It gets to a point where even if the ace is naked and trying to have sex with them, they just push the ace away and go for a walk or whatever, because they've just spent too long not having their intimate (both emotional and physical) needs met and stop being able to want that contact with their partner. Obviously I hope it doesn't get to that point for you, but I know for me personally if my partner constantly refused my sexual advances I would end up wondering if maybe we should just be friends, I don't think I could take the feelings of rejection and not being wanted personally. Which is interesting considering my past and how we both met on an asexual site, both identifying as asexual  Hopefully things work out okay for you both

[Telecaster68]

3 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

Obviously in the perfect world, both partners would meet each other half way

I don't think that requires a perfect world. Meeting your partner half way isn't some ludicrous idealism, by definition.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I don't think that requires a perfect world. Meeting your partner half way isn't some ludicrous idealism, by definition.

ah, that's why there's so many ecstatically happy sexual partners on AVEN, my bad, totally slipped my mind.