Logically I know. Emotionally it still gets hard

[anamikanon]

It is the same old story. I don't even know why I'm making a new thread. Some days I think there is no such thing as feeling content on the sexual front for either of us. I want more. He wants less. He can simply forget because it isn't on his mind. I feel frustrated. Me initiating sex doesn't usually go well. 

 

At the end of the day, while he knows I like sex, he doesn't really "get" it. Most times we do ok. Some times not so well.

 

Today I'm just feeling totally not understood. I am also worried about me falling out of love with him. I do love him and I don't want that to happen, but sometimes I get these "blank" moods. I'm not even horny anymore. I don't even feel the desire for sex. Just indifferent like there is nothing here to expect. I just feel depressed like there is no hope and overall just keeping some mental distance from him. He isn't even home right now - out of town for work. So it isn't about me wanting sex. It is just feeling very pessimistic about the whole thing.

 

He has issues connecting on an emotional front as well. His way of expressing what he feels is through small actions. So it isn't just never feeling desired on a sexual level, it is also never particularly being told I'm loved on an emotional level either other than "I love you". I don't doubt he loves me - at all. It just seems like trying to grow a lush garden in the desert.

 

How long can we make this work? What does it even mean to know that you have to act in ways that don't come naturally to you in the bedroom? For him to offer sex, for me to ignore that he doesn't really want it and accept when offered and not initiate, because the refusal will break the illusion? I find it very hard to have sex with someone who doesn't want it. And I find it very hard that he doesn't want it.

 

I tried finding another partner. So far it hasn't gone too well. I don't feel attracted easily and no one seems to be clicking. There are other specific circumstances that make it complicated to have another partner. I'm not the type to do booty calls and casual sex and secret sex only relationships on the side. I need a partner to be suitable on an intellectual level. I need a relationship and intimacy and something of a bond. Hit and run sex doesn't excite me. A new partner will be a new relationship. I don't feel like I have the time or energy to do this right. Not to mention dependent mother with mental issues, disabled child, relatively orthodox society... seems too much headache and not really an answer either.

 

I know this is just a down mood talking, but it is looking really hopeless right now. Son had a terrible night. He was sick. We were up all night. I messaged my ace. No reply. He probably didn't see it and he loves that kid to the point that even if we broke up, he'd have a relationship with him, but things like this just start seeming really big because everything is looking hopeless right now.

 

Logically I also know that I enjoy this relationship in more ways than just the details of the sex. Logically I also know that a new relationship seems pointless trouble because I'm not attracted to anyone yet and I will be very interested if that happens. Just not computing together to contentment right now. Feeling like everything is pointless.

 

So I guess now you know the other side of my bright and cheerful posts about our relationship.

[T...]

I feel you. I'm in a similar situation...

I'm trying to cope with all this "new" in my sexual life and even if i'm logical thinking "its okay", my non-logical side sometimes gets the best of me, giving me more doubts about how long will this relationship last, how long will i manage to hold, how low can i feel, etc... 

 

My problem is similar because im sexual, i fully understand and respect my partner is asexual, but its not the lack of activity that "bugs me". Its the lack of "feeling physicaly needed", and since the person doesn't feel that, its hard to cross that bridge. We all have ups and downs, and your post sounds like you are on the down part. 

 

Stay strong, don't doubt yourself, and if you need to vent, vent at will (PM me if you need). You are not alone on that, and i know how frustrating it can feel (even if you are the most logical person in the world)!

I can tell you i try to spend more time now doing Tai Chi and exercise to try to "purge" all that negativity from me, and it helps me a lot. It doesn't solve everything but helps release some pressure.

[anamikanon]

I don't know why it is so hard to understand that an aspect of the relationship going missing feels like an amputation. You don't have to understand the desire for sex to understand that it means a LOT and that your sexual is often hoping that you make an effort to meet their needs.

 

For those who don't get it, think of it like this. Most aces like cuddling. I didn't, till I got into a relationship with him. I like embraces, but constant touchy feely was not my game at all. I am asocial by nature. My preference is to be alone, except for select people and even with them, I don't tend toward constant touch. I still don't particularly feel a need to cuddle, though I enjoy it and don't mind at all - because it is with him. Mostly because I can end up aroused with him oblivious. I don't think there is anyone other than him and my son that can pull me into a hug at will without getting bitten. Forget snuggling up for hours on end to watch a film or whatever.

 

This "don't mind at all - because it is with him" I said about cuddling is identical to what he says about sex, which he doesn't prefer.

 

How is this different from sex with an asexual who doesn't mind it and even enjoys it even if he doesn't particularly desire it?

 

If you need cuddles to feel loved in the relationship and have a partner who doesn't need them but doesn't mind, how is it different from you wanting sex in a relationship and having a partner who doesn't need it but doesn't mind?

 

So why is it so hard for one of those needs to be met and the other doesn't even stumble in being fulfilled - unlimited.

 

Maybe I am just bitter right now, but I feel like if he doesn't really mind sex as he says he doesn't, why the hell am I still required to seek crumbs?

[T...]

I don't see you as bitter, i see you as someone that is trying to process that part of the relationship.

I had a similar fight with my partner 2 days ago, because i want sex, She doesn't mind, but "doesn't mind" sometimes is not enough for me. I didn't like she was looking at me with the emotion of drinking a water cup (i know she didn't do it conciously, She feels like She doesn't know how to express herself).

 

People like us want and need to feel the person wanting it, like they feel when we cuddle without exactly having will... Some people can understand both sides, some can't (and that is hard, frustrating, tiering, etc). 

 

As much as it pains me, to avoid more fights, I decided to go out of the house for 3 days (you can call it a mental retirement) because i feel i'm not well with myself, i'm doubting a relationship i shouldn't, and that is not good for nobody. We need to be well with ourselves before being with others, so i'm trying to cope, regain some hope on the path i choose (i love the person and choose to stick with her), but sometimes we forget that... 

 

They love us, and we sometimes feel stupid (at least I do) that we don't feel that its enough, but i try to understand both sides... If they don't have that need, its hard to make them understand that. Sometimes doing it, even if they lack that intimacy part, is the best they can (and then i usually feel extra stupid for not valuing that enough).

[Telecaster68]

I think I and most sexual partners on here could have written your post, @anamikanon. The (lack of) sex matters but what truly hurts is the obliviousness and the apparent lack of concern about the hurt, even while there are other ways of reading the situation that indicate they do love you. As sexuals, we have no choice to attend to our partner's need for no sex, but short of us leaving, they can safely ignore ours if they choose and the nature of not being bothered about sex means it doesn't prey on their minds in the same way. Some asexuals do make an effort to compromise, and others have been in relationships where it seems the sexual partner doesn't, but the reverse situation seems far more common.

[Tarfeather]

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

Today I'm just feeling totally not understood. I am also worried about me falling out of love with him. I do love him and I don't want that to happen, but sometimes I get these "blank" moods. I'm not even horny anymore. I don't even feel the desire for sex. Just indifferent like there is nothing here to expect. I just feel depressed like there is no hope and overall just keeping some mental distance from him.

 

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

For those who don't get it, think of it like this. Most aces like cuddling. I didn't, till I got into a relationship with him. I like embraces, but constant touchy feely was not my game at all. I am asocial by nature. My preference is to be alone, except for select people and even with them, I don't tend toward constant touch. I still don't particularly feel a need to cuddle, though I enjoy it and don't mind at all - because it is with him. Mostly because I can end up aroused with him oblivious. I don't think there is anyone other than him and my son that can pull me into a hug at will without getting bitten. Forget snuggling up for hours on end to watch a film or whatever.

I'm now almost 4 years into a relationship with an asexual, and I can totally understand the "no hope" part. For me, the only way forward was to not see my partner in a sexual way, and to accept and love her as a person. This is working great for us now, but it's essentially a friendship. I've actually had to reprogram myself not to feel aroused when cuddling, because if I did, it'd drive me insane in the long run. When we cuddle, it's as friends, platonic. And that way we can both enjoy it.

 

If you actually have no interest in that kind of platonic intimacy, then I think you're only hurting yourself trying to be close to him. He wants something different from you, and fooling yourself into that not being the case will only work for a limited time.

 

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

This "don't mind at all - because it is with him" I said about cuddling is identical to what he says about sex, which he doesn't prefer.

 

How is this different from sex with an asexual who doesn't mind it and even enjoys it even if he doesn't particularly desire it?

 

If you need cuddles to feel loved in the relationship and have a partner who doesn't need them but doesn't mind, how is it different from you wanting sex in a relationship and having a partner who doesn't need it but doesn't mind?

 

So why is it so hard for one of those needs to be met and the other doesn't even stumble in being fulfilled - unlimited.

 

Maybe I am just bitter right now, but I feel like if he doesn't really mind sex as he says he doesn't, why the hell am I still required to seek crumbs?

For one thing, having sex that you don't particularly like will over time make you enjoy it even less. Cuddles are a very passive thing, and also something you can get used to. Sex is the opposite, the more you do it, the more draining it becomes. I mean, consider the thought of having sex with someone you're not attracted to at all. It's actually kind of icky. It's just when sexual attraction etc. comes into it, that it seems like something desirable to do.

 

Other than that, it sounds to me like you are more strongly dependent on your partner, than he is dependent on you. So he will likely be making less of an effort to fulfil your needs than vice verca.

 

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

I tried finding another partner. So far it hasn't gone too well. I don't feel attracted easily and no one seems to be clicking. There are other specific circumstances that make it complicated to have another partner. I'm not the type to do booty calls and casual sex and secret sex only relationships on the side. I need a partner to be suitable on an intellectual level. I need a relationship and intimacy and something of a bond. Hit and run sex doesn't excite me. A new partner will be a new relationship. I don't feel like I have the time or energy to do this right. Not to mention dependent mother with mental issues, disabled child, relatively orthodox society... seems too much headache and not really an answer either.

Agreed, it's a really difficult situation. I'm in the same boat. Looking for a relationship specifically because sex is the only thing my partner can't give me, but not really interested in casual sex, or relationships that are only about sex. Trying to find someone who's interested in a serious relationship, but then also okay with the fact that you already have a partner.. yeah, that's a headache. I think your partner is very lucky to have you, because I'm pretty damn certain a lot of people would just dump their partner on the spot over something like this. For all the supposed values we have about love, loyalty, etc. many people are just looking to get their needs fulfilled in a relationship, and if that's not happening, those values suddenly take a backseat.

 

45 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

The (lack of) sex matters but what truly hurts is the obliviousness and the apparent lack of concern about the hurt, even while there are other ways of reading the situation that indicate they do love you. As sexuals, we have no choice to attend to our partner's need for no sex, but short of us leaving, they can safely ignore ours if they choose and the nature of not being bothered about sex means it doesn't prey on their minds in the same way. Some asexuals do make an effort to compromise, and others have been in relationships where it seems the sexual partner doesn't, but the reverse situation seems far more common.

I don't think you're paying quite enough attention to the fact that every time an asexual has sex, it puts a lot of strain on them, and it only gets harder over time. If your partner makes an effort to compromise on sex at all, however rarely it may be, that means they care a lot about you and your needs. The fact that it hardly satisfies you shouldn't invalidate the effort they are putting in.

[anamikanon]

My ace claims to be indifferent about sex. He isn't repulsed, at least for the most part. He climaxes, even enjoys the climax. This cannot be faked. I've seen him totally wasted and happy, even though it didn't begin with attraction. Just that because he doesn't need it, he doesn't put excessive effort into making sure he offers it either. Me initiating doesn't work so well - he needs to be mentally ready. I don't want him to be stressed over sex - he knows this, but to me it seems like even when it wouldn't stress him and he'd likely enjoy it once he got started, he doesn't bother, because he doesn't need it. Feels like a huge betrayal of me being protective of his needs if he uses that to ignore mine.

 

Times like this, it seems like my strong aversion to pressuring him gets exploited to simply ignore my needs for the most part rather than make an effort. Because I accept it without complaint, he seems to not see a need to make an effort beyond when he feels an urge (he can feel aroused and want sex, even if not attracted to me as a person - it is rare). Yeah, I'm in a foul mood today.

 

Edit: I am not averse to cuddling with him or traumatized by it in any manner either. I enjoy the closeness with him and don't mind at all. Just that this isn't something that comes naturally to me, like sex doesn't come naturally to him. This is strictly something I allow only him and my son. Everyone else, I don't at all enjoy physical contact. Friends can hug at specific times - meeting/parting/emotional moments, strangers can shake hands. For anything else, better check my readiness or you're likely to be evicted from my space.

[Telecaster68]

1 hour ago, Tarfeather said:

I don't think you're paying quite enough attention to the fact that every time an asexual has sex, it puts a lot of strain on them, and it only gets harder over time. If your partner makes an effort to compromise on sex at all, however rarely it may be, that means they care a lot about you and your needs. The fact that it hardly satisfies you shouldn't invalidate the effort they are putting in.

I'm not sure it does always put a lot of strain on them - there are many asexuals who say they enjoy sex when they have it, they'd just be fine with never doing it again.

 

It's the same for sexuals - it's a strain constantly dealing with rejection, and knowing it's going to go on forever. And it isn't just a once a week thing, or once a month. It's all the time, even when you wouldn't actually be having sex, because you know you'll never be desired in that relationship, and sex will always be a concession from your partner. And there's nothing you can do about it. Loss of agency is known to be one of the main causes of stress and depression.

 

I'm happy to give credit for the effort that is put in, but it does often seem like it's the bare minimum an asexual partner can get away with to stop the sexual leaving, rather than being positively focussed on making them happy (like for instance, vague promises that 'they're working on it'. I don't doubt they are in their head, but the results seem hard to notice, often). Even giving credit... there's a time when it's just not enough.

[anamikanon]

5 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm not sure it does always put a lot of strain on them - there are many asexuals who say they enjoy sex when they have it, they'd just be fine with never doing it again.

 

It's the same for sexuals - it's a strain constantly dealing with rejection, and knowing it's going to go on forever. And it isn't just a once a week thing, or once a month. It's all the time, even when you wouldn't actually be having sex, because you know you'll never be desired in that relationship, and sex will always be a concession from your partner. And there's nothing you can do about it. Loss of agency is known to be one of the main causes of stress and depression.

 

I'm happy to give credit for the effort that is put in, but it does often seem like it's the bare minimum an asexual partner can get away with to stop the sexual leaving, rather than being positively focussed on making them happy (like for instance, vague promises that 'they're working on it'. I don't doubt they are in their head, but the results seem hard to notice, often). Even giving credit... there's a time when it's just not enough.

This. Exactly. The sense of "bare minimum". Like feeding a loved one just enough to prevent dying of starvation. I don't need it to be enough, but even a sense of proactively being interested in offering sort of translates to desire. It is very hard when you know the person will be horny in the sense of wanting to masturbate at a set frequency and will offer you sex then. And you can deal with your own feelings otherwise.

 

Very hard to take from a person who willingly pursued and entered a sexual relationship with me (I am asocial. I don't seek). While it was me who initiated the sex, he chalked it to his inexperience and said he definitely wanted it. He enjoys it when it happens on his terms. There is no doubt about that. He pushed our relationship to new levels all through. Wanted to marry right off the bat, I didn't. Wanted to move in way before I was ready to share my space. Sex was always on the table and he even enjoyed a lot of it in the initial stages of curiosity. Now he's a part of my family, my son is attached to him, my mother sees him as my partner. He is socially known as my partner in a fairly orthodox locality. He lives with us and I have to figure out where to get sex from. I am willing to do without if it distresses him, but it plain hurts that even when it doesn't distress him, he's happy to ignore my needs because they aren't his priorities.

 

I normally ignore all this and look at what works. And a lot of it works very well, including the sex when he engages. Sometimes it is just hard to keep ignoring.

[purpleandgreylife]

6 hours ago, anamikanon said:

It is the same old story. I don't even know why I'm making a new thread. Some days I think there is no such thing as feeling content on the sexual front for either of us. I want more. He wants less. He can simply forget because it isn't on his mind. I feel frustrated. Me initiating sex doesn't usually go well. 

 

At the end of the day, while he knows I like sex, he doesn't really "get" it. Most times we do ok. Some times not so well.

 

Today I'm just feeling totally not understood. I am also worried about me falling out of love with him. I do love him and I don't want that to happen, but sometimes I get these "blank" moods. I'm not even horny anymore. I don't even feel the desire for sex. Just indifferent like there is nothing here to expect. I just feel depressed like there is no hope and overall just keeping some mental distance from him. He isn't even home right now - out of town for work. So it isn't about me wanting sex. It is just feeling very pessimistic about the whole thing.

 

He has issues connecting on an emotional front as well. His way of expressing what he feels is through small actions. So it isn't just never feeling desired on a sexual level, it is also never particularly being told I'm loved on an emotional level either other than "I love you". I don't doubt he loves me - at all. It just seems like trying to grow a lush garden in the desert.

 

How long can we make this work? What does it even mean to know that you have to act in ways that don't come naturally to you in the bedroom? For him to offer sex, for me to ignore that he doesn't really want it and accept when offered and not initiate, because the refusal will break the illusion? I find it very hard to have sex with someone who doesn't want it. And I find it very hard that he doesn't want it.

 

I tried finding another partner. So far it hasn't gone too well. I don't feel attracted easily and no one seems to be clicking. There are other specific circumstances that make it complicated to have another partner. I'm not the type to do booty calls and casual sex and secret sex only relationships on the side. I need a partner to be suitable on an intellectual level. I need a relationship and intimacy and something of a bond. Hit and run sex doesn't excite me. A new partner will be a new relationship. I don't feel like I have the time or energy to do this right. Not to mention dependent mother with mental issues, disabled child, relatively orthodox society... seems too much headache and not really an answer either.

 

I know this is just a down mood talking, but it is looking really hopeless right now. Son had a terrible night. He was sick. We were up all night. I messaged my ace. No reply. He probably didn't see it and he loves that kid to the point that even if we broke up, he'd have a relationship with him, but things like this just start seeming really big because everything is looking hopeless right now.

 

Logically I also know that I enjoy this relationship in more ways than just the details of the sex. Logically I also know that a new relationship seems pointless trouble because I'm not attracted to anyone yet and I will be very interested if that happens. Just not computing together to contentment right now. Feeling like everything is pointless.

 

So I guess now you know the other side of my bright and cheerful posts about our relationship.

 

I'm really sorry you feel this way. No one, should have to feel hopeless and blank in their relationship - no matter what type of relationship it is.

 

You asked how long you can make this work. Honestly? With all due respect, it doesn't really seem like it's working that well for you now. From what I've read, you're okay with not having sex or not having the sex you want, but you feel emotionally unfulfilled. This is definitely something I think you should tell him. You mentioned that he shows he loves you by doing small acts, but you don't receive it as an act of love and you doubt his love. First of all, this feeling is valid. You have a right to feel your feelings.

 

Have you heard of the five love languages? They're a test that was developed (I forget the specifics) to determine how people show and receive love. Some may show love through presents, others through physical touch, others through acts of service, quality time or words of affirmation. Some may use two or three. Based on that school of thought, It sounds like you all aren't speaking the same language.

 

When you said you tried finding another partner, did you mean one to replace him or one in addition to him? Is he open to having an open relationship? This would allow you the opportunity to find someone who you connect with and be able to be with them sexually and emotionally without having to give up this current relationship.

 

If not, I would talk to him about an open relationship. I would also discuss possibly changing the parameters of your relationship from romantic, to a Queer Platonic Relationship (QPR). In this relationship form, you are not giving up the relationship you have, but neither of you have to feel like you're having sex you don't want or acting unnaturally in the bedroom for the sake of the other. You are still as close as before. You can still go out and spend time together and talk, but without you having to feel like you wont have the psychical intimacy you desire or him feeling like he has to preform a physically intimate act that he would rather not (not saying he's uncomfortable, but like you said, he forgets and possibly if given the option to do something else he might choose something else). It would also allow you to seek a romantic relationship that is both emotionally and (if you so choose) sexually fulfilling.

 

These are only suggestions based on what you have written. I don't know your details so please let me know if I'm getting anything wrong. Also, please don't take my QPR relationship suggestion as a downgrade. This would not downgrade or devalue your relationship. It might not work for you all at all. It might take a lot of pressure off of your current relationship and allow you to actually grow deeper. QPR is no less a valid relationship style than any romantic or sexual relationship.

 

I hope things get better for your relationship. 

 

[anamikanon]

5 minutes ago, purpleandgreylife said:

You mentioned that he shows he loves you by doing small acts, but you don't receive it as an act of love and you doubt his love. First of all, this feeling is valid. You have a right to feel your feelings.

You missed the "I don't doubt he loves me - at all." right after the part you made bold. I don't doubt his love, but I miss receiving expressions of it that matter to me.

 

5 minutes ago, purpleandgreylife said:

When you said you tried finding another partner, did you mean one to replace him or one in addition to him? Is he open to having an open relationship? This would allow you the opportunity to find someone who you connect with and be able to be with them sexually and emotionally without having to give up this current relationship.

In addition to him. It has been clear from the start in our relationship that I am poly in belief though being asocial I don't tend to seek partners. I was single at the time we met, I've been with just him for 4 years. But there is no promise of monogamy here. He knows and got into the relationship knowing it and has consented and encouraged every time I checked. The problem is mostly me.

 

Asocial+demisexual+sapiosexual = lol@sexlife

 

I am now actively trying to find someone so that I don't feel as frustrated and he doesn't have to engage in sex at all if he doesn't want it. But it is not easy due to many factors - orthodox society makes it hard to find men who'd agree to this situation. Existing ace partner, two dependents plus work at home job limits time I can invest in building new relationships. My asocial nature doesn't lend easily to meeting random people to contemplate a relationship with them and so far, when I've made an effort to do it, nothing has sparked, because it will take a while for me to feel attracted and that gets seriously exhausting for me. Meeting people is just not my thing. I meet exactly 8 people on a day to day basis, 3 of them are family members and two more are employees. Remaining are local shop owners. That is it. That is how I prefer it.

[anamikanon]

5 hours ago, Tarfeather said:

If you actually have no interest in that kind of platonic intimacy, then I think you're only hurting yourself trying to be close to him. He wants something different from you, and fooling yourself into that not being the case will only work for a limited time.

I  enjoy it. It isn't what I'd come up with naturally, but I like it, and often initiate cuddles and enjoy it. But only with him and kid. For everyone else I'm still "Stay away"

 

5 hours ago, Tarfeather said:

I don't think you're paying quite enough attention to the fact that every time an asexual has sex, it puts a lot of strain on them, and it only gets harder over time. If your partner makes an effort to compromise on sex at all, however rarely it may be, that means they care a lot about you and your needs. The fact that it hardly satisfies you shouldn't invalidate the effort they are putting in.

He says he doesn't dislike sex at all, even enjoys it, just doesn't particularly want it again. When we are having sex, he responds readily, and obviously gets pleasure. He even claims to desire sex with me on occasion, though it isn't desire me so much as desire sex, and I'm the partner. But that doesn't mean he'll want it again. It is like starting from Step 0 each time, even if it was a roaring success last time and he is very unlikely to be interested unless he wants sex.

[gaogao]

4 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm not sure it does always put a lot of strain on them - there are many asexuals who say they enjoy sex when they have it, they'd just be fine with never doing it again.

I can't speak for all asexuals who say they can like sex, but as an asexual in a mixed relationship who has said it in the past (possibly to you?), I have to be clear and say that having fully consensual, fun, enjoyable sex still puts a lot of strain on me mentally/emotionally, IMO.. especially on a long term basis.

 

it's a bit like how I feel after going to a rock concert. Left alone, I would never choose to go to a rock concert and I would be happy to never go again (I am easily overwhelmed by loud sounds and am very uncomfortable in large crowds) but I do actually enjoy myself when I go, especially when it's for a band I like. On the other hand, as much as I enjoy myself, being in such a crowded place with loud sounds will still drain me physically and emotionally afterwards and I need a significant amount of time to mentally adjust and recover -- which I think is still a sacrifice both for me and for my friends who have had to lug me along and take care of me at every concert I've ever been to.

 

Replace this with anything you've ever enjoyed but wouldn't necessarily do again because it took a lot of preparation and effort... (albeit mentally) i.e. sky diving, running a marathon, going on a 16 hour road trip to disneyland. ETC. ETC.

 

I think it's a bit like that with sex, too.. which is a sacrifice on both my and my partner's part. /shrug

[anamikanon]

Thank you @gaogaothis was very insightful.

 

And something I can relate to totally, because it is like this for me when we go out almost any crowded place or excessively busy schedule or meeting too many people. Or even speaking somewhere to an audience (who are at a distance mostly except before and after)

 

(but I do cheerfully go out to eat with him as often as he asks anyway - though he does ensure my comfort)

[Telecaster68]

@gaogao

 

So the enjoyment isn't sufficient payoff for the effort? I guess that's the difference between sexuals and asexuals. I'm completely 'meh' about going bowling. I'd never go of my own volition, but I'm happy enough to go with a group of friends, and I enjoy it. It doesn't take any recovery time though. My assumption when asexuals say they 'enjoy' sex is something similar is going on, but often it appears there's a different definition of 'enjoy' being used. I wouldn't say I enjoyed something that involved several days prep and recovery for a couple of hours enjoyment.

 

 

[anamikanon]

6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

@gaogao

 

So the enjoyment isn't sufficient payoff for the effort? I guess that's the difference between sexuals and asexuals. I'm completely 'meh' about going bowling. I'd never go of my own volition, but I'm happy enough to go with a group of friends, and I enjoy it. It doesn't take any recovery time though. My assumption when asexuals say they 'enjoy' sex is something similar is going on, but often it appears there's a different definition of 'enjoy' being used. I wouldn't say I enjoyed something that involved several days prep and recovery for a couple of hours enjoyment.

Also true. While I relate with @gaogao's example, I most certainly wouldn't classify those activities as something I "enjoy" - particularly in the sense of repeats. I do them when they are necessary. I may enjoy them when inevitable as one offs, but I wouldn't commit to repeats. For example, I wouldn't agree to a lecture tour or becoming a restaurant reviewer or even promise a partner for whom dining in restaurants was an important pleasure that I would do it regularly - EVEN IF I DID IT OCCASIONALLY LATER TO PLEASE THEM. Giving it a shot would be the limit of what I'd promise. I wouldn't sign up for some group that attended rock concerts every week or plan a career in sky diving if that made demands from me that stressed me.

 

Putting it into the context of a sexual relationship, I wouldn't enter a relationship with a sexual if sex stressed me. If I was asexual, the best I'd promise is to give it a try and see if I like it.

[Twisters]

Dear Anamikanon,

 

I share your frustration. I’m sorry you have to go through this. My situation is similar on many fronts, but also different on others.

 

My wife, who I love dearly and whose love for me I don’t doubt, and I are together for 21 years. Have lovely kids and lots of other things going for us.

 

Our sexlife has never been very active, but there were always other things that got the blame. I have complained about it, we discussed it at times, but nothing really changed. I felt rejected, a bad lover, unattractive, actually all the things that you describe. 

 

I never heard of asexuality as an orientation until recently. I have tried to talk with my wife about it, but she doesn’t want to engage in the conversation as she has “too many things” on her plate.

 

Other than your husband, she is sexrepulsed. No kissing, no cuddles, no nothing. I’m living in forced celibate. I sleep in the guest room...

 

As much as I hate it and how frustrated I am, I know I need to battle this one.

 

I know her asexuality is not her choice, she can’t help it. I think that deep down she would love to have things differently, but she can’t. I don’t want her to force her either, because having sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you, is thinking about a million other things and is not into the game at all is absolutely awful. No sex is better than bad sex!

 

I will probably get this completely wrong, but the fact that your hubby is aware of you being poly and actually encourages you in that aspect, should give you a way out. I understand that your asocial side makes it hard for you. But as I’m of the opinion that it is easier to change yourself than it is to change someone else, maybe you should focus on stepping over your own boundaries rather than trying to change his.

 

See what @Traveler40 has written in her thread about finding a partner outside of her marriage. I hope it inspires you!

[uhtred]

I've been married for 30 years to a mostly asexual partner.  It doesn't get better.  There may be no "fault" but its still poison to a relationship.  

 

 

[gaogao]

@Telecaster68 I think the definition of 'enjoy' probably differs from person to person :/ - and what you'd define as an acceptable amount of effort vs payoff probably differs as well for each person and each relationship. I think I agree that for me, sex isn't something that has sufficient payoff for the effort for me alone. But it makes my partner happy, and there are enough positives in my relationship for me to want to maintain the relationship, for which sex is necessary, so it balances out and putting in that effort into sex is part of how I show that I care about my partner.

 

@anamikanon It's funny that you say that you wouldn't be able to commit to a partner for whom dining in restaurants was an important pleasure because ... dining in restaurants and trying new food is a really big thing for me and it's another point of compromise/contention in my relationship irl. 

 

I mean, part of what I consider 'intimate'/bonding has to do with sharing my cultural foods and also new food experiences with my partner - my partner, however, has a lot of food anxiety so I can't just tell her to meet me at a surprise restaurant to try something new, no matter how much I'd actually really love to be able to do that. I accommodate her by telling her in advance that I might want to go somewhere new, give her a copy of the menu, and answer any questions she might have about what we'll be eating - and she makes an effort to overcome her anxiety to share food experiences with me. Sometimes she says she doesn't want to go, and I'll never pressure her or force her to go somewhere like that -  just staying home and ordering pizza is fine too.

 

If she's ever uncomfortable i would hope she would say so, just as she has to trust that if I'm uncomfortable in a sexual situation I will say something - but I appreciate and am happy to see her put effort to try new foods to make me happy - just as I think she is happy and appreciates that I put effort into sex to make her happy. 

[Telecaster68]

Sounds like it's working pretty well then @gaogao.

[anamikanon]

7 minutes ago, gaogao said:

 

@anamikanon It's funny that you say that you wouldn't be able to commit to a partner for whom dining in restaurants was an important pleasure because ... dining in restaurants and trying new food is a really big thing for me and it's another point of compromise/contention in my relationship irl. 

I didn't say I wouldn't be able to commit to a partner for whom dining in restaurants was an important pleasure. I said I wouldn't promise to share that pleasure beyond giving it a shot. I wouldn't get into the relationship leading him to believe we'd be going out to restaurants all the time. Then it is up to him to decide whether this is ok for him or it is a dealbreaker that the partner regularly shares the experience with you, even if you are willing to ensure her comfort.

 

I gave the example, because my ace is a foodie and we do go out to eat on occasion - particularly if we are in his home city where he has favorite haunts. But he most certainly knew I didn't like going to puiblic/crowded places and rarely went out to eat unless inevitable while traveling. I also order predictable, ordinary familiar food once there. He orders what he likes, and gives me a taste and I can decide if I want more. But I never led him to believe that this would be a pleasure he could count on me sharing enthusiastically.

 

It is a default. If something matters to him that I may not like, I will still try it once, trusting him to know my likes and ensure that I have a good time. But I most certainly don't lead him to believe I'll participate in his interests regularly and then simply don't do them when I don't feel like it.

[anamikanon]

Just want to make a relatively minor point on cuddles here. Cuddles can be.... limiting. For example, I like to see the face of the person I am talking to, which stresses my eyes and makes me all cross eyed and have to move my head back enough to see his face. Also, when I'm talking about something that matters to me, I can have a lot of restless energy - this can include talking about intimacy, given how different our preferences are. I don't refuse the cuddles. I try to create my own space without rejecting his wish to hold me.

 

I'll talk without seeing his face for a while, I'll look cross eyed for a while, I'll rise on an elbow a bit to be able to see his face, or I'll get up and sit next to him and have a smoke while we continue the talk and then return to lie with him.... rinse repeat. Being held/still while I'm full of energy about whatever subject feels.... jittery (not exact description). I want to break free. And I do, if it gets too much. I am also not used to talking while horizontal. As in long conversations. Small stuff is ok. Discussion needs looking at face to listen with full attention.

 

I don't mind doing this.

 

Just wanted to address this common notion that everyone likes or can learn to like cuddling or that it doesn't cause stress at least (because sex/genitals aren't involved?). It does. For an asocial person, someone holding you while you want to move is most unpleasant feeling. Trapped. The more serious the subject, the more I want to sit independent, facing him to discuss it. I am not complaining, I'm just saying that it does take adjustment and it isn't always non-problematic. So I do that, and return to cuddling, which I enjoy otherwise. But I don't just refuse cuddling altogether because I could want to talk and feel trapped. I trust him to let me sit up when I need to, and that is that. I unreservedly enjoy the cuddling trusting my partner to let me go when I need it. And I return after I'm done needing that space. Even if cuddling is not my preference, because it is pleasurable and he likes it and this is how we "normally" are. He doesn't have to pull me back into his arms or ask me to return before I will go back to him.

 

This isn't a big deal, because I don't make it a big deal. I accept and participate in his preference, caring for my needs as necessary and don't unnecessarily be distant if I don't need it.

 

Edit: Just recalled a time in our early relationship, when I tried to sit up, and he didn't know me well enough to realize I was trying to sit up and didn't loosen his hold on me. Inside my mind: BLIND PANIC. I forcefully removed his hand and sat at some distance, then explained to him. Since then, if I move, he immediately loosens his arms, lets me settle again before holding or sit up if I need to.

[gaogao]

@Telecaster68 honestly... it works as best it can. It's definitely not perfect and never going to be... I think my gf has felt quite hurt on occasion and sometimes been in a bad state more than I realised because sex really isn't that regular an occurrence for us, but i have to trust her to say something if her needs aren't being met. I'm trying to make the effort to learn when to initiate and when it's been too long but there have definitely been times when she's tried to ignore her needs and that really did not go well. We're learning from those incidents and trying our best, i think, so we're still working it out honestly. I feel like it's going ok though! (i hope!)

 

@anamikanon do you feel like your partner got into the relationship leading you to believe that you'd be having sex regularly? I don't feel I did this with my girlfriend at all, because she knew when I got into a relationship with her that I was asexual, though she maybe didn't 100% understand what it meant for our relationship and thought it just meant I would take things slow. On the flip-side, I didn't know how bad her food anxiety was until some time later because she was trying really hard not to inconvenience anyone with her food preferences, and it only came to light when she had a pretty bad breakdown in a restaurant;;; I felt really bad after that because I'd just assumed she would enjoy trying new foods since I liked it... but we've definitely adapted to both situations;;

[Telecaster68]

@anamikanon

 

My wife is more like you when it comes to cuddles. She doesn't like them. I do (and especially if it's a big, potentially difficult conversation; I find the physical touching immensely reassuring). But when we have those conversations, we now sit opposite each other, as she feels more comfortable than that. It's not a big deal, as you say. It's just a compromise to make the other person comfortable. 

 

The point, again, is compromise. 

[anamikanon]

1 minute ago, gaogao said:

 

@anamikanon do you feel like your partner got into the relationship leading you to believe that you'd be having sex regularly?

 

Yes. To the point of assuring me he wanted it when I sensed his reluctance. He attributed it to his inexperience and told be he definitely wanted a sexual relationship with me. Once the initial curiosity wore off, we were very emotionally attached by then. But the sex was getting increasingly according to his mood. And less and less. And now he has found the term asexual which he identifies with (he's described his sexual response like a textbook case all through after the initial interest). But now it is like he has an official term, so he doesn't even need to bother as much as he used to, because now it is established, he's like that only. Sex hasn't stopped, but explicit refusal is increasing. Even though he continues to maintain that he does enjoy sex when we do it AND I can see that he enjoys it. I'm not blind.

[Tarfeather]

1 hour ago, anamikanon said:

He says he doesn't dislike sex at all, even enjoys it, just doesn't particularly want it again. When we are having sex, he responds readily, and obviously gets pleasure. He even claims to desire sex with me on occasion, though it isn't desire me so much as desire sex, and I'm the partner. But that doesn't mean he'll want it again. It is like starting from Step 0 each time, even if it was a roaring success last time and he is very unlikely to be interested unless he wants sex.

Yeah. The difference is, in your case you have an intrinsic desire for sexual intimacy which builds up over time. Whereas for him, he could go without it indefinitely and have no issue.

 

6 hours ago, anamikanon said:

I don't need it to be enough, but even a sense of proactively being interested in offering sort of translates to desire.

Hm.. that's an interesting point. I don't think there's anything about asexuality that would stop you from doing that, and in fact I recall some stories from sexuals who never even realized their partner was asexual because they were doing what you described for years. I should actually ask my partner about this sometime..

 

19 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Just want to make a relatively minor point on cuddles here. Cuddles can be.... limiting. For example, I like to see the face of the person I am talking to, which stresses my eyes and makes me all cross eyed and have to move my head back enough to see his face. Also, when I'm talking about something that matters to me, I can have a lot of restless energy - this can include talking about intimacy, given how different our preferences are. I don't refuse the cuddles. I try to create my own space without rejecting his wish to hold me.

 

I'll talk without seeing his face for a while, I'll look cross eyed for a while, I'll rise on an elbow a bit to be able to see his face, or I'll get up and sit next to him and have a smoke while we continue the talk and then return to lie with him.... rinse repeat. Being held/still while I'm full of energy about whatever subject feels.... jittery (not exact description). I want to break free. And I do, if it gets too much. I am also not used to talking while horizontal. As in long conversations. Small stuff is ok. Discussion needs looking at face to listen with full attention.

 

I don't mind doing this.

Uh.. I'm a fairly sensual person and I wouldn't enjoy any of that, either. Talky time is different from cuddly time. I need to look the other person in the face and have my space for that, yeah. Cuddly time is like, lying on the sofa and listening to an audio book while almost dozing off. Totally different activities.

 

 

And this is totally off topic, but if you're into really great food, why would you ever eat out, rather than meeting up with friends and cooking together?

[anamikanon]

3 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

And this is totally off topic, but if you're into really great food, why would you ever eat out, rather than meeting up with friends and cooking together?

He does enjoy cooking for guests. I don't really like cooking (PTSD from previous marriage - I don't like doing ANY domestic work traditionally seen as "woman's work/job/responsibility), but I do it on occasion, and we cook together too.

[Telecaster68]

3 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

I don't think there's anything about asexuality that would stop you from doing that, and in fact I recall some stories from sexuals who never even realized their partner was asexual because they were doing what you described for years.

My wife did something similar, with the addition that physically she was using me to masturbate (her own phrase), and between the two things, it was enough, though sex felt a bit 'off' compared to with sexual women in a way I couldn't quite put my finger on. 

 

I agree there's nothing inherent about asexuality that would stop asexuals from parlaying their pleasure in their partner's pleasure into something in the general ballpark of 'wanting sex' (and then we're into a bigger grey area about what constitutes sexual desire).

 

I think @anamikanon's wider point is that many asexuals who aren't sex repulsed, or even say they enjoy sex, just don't do this. Which can lead us sexual partners to conclude that they don't do it because they don't care enough to make a compromise, or even try, which is a pretty shitty feeling.

[Traveler40]

53 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I think @anamikanon's wider point is that many asexuals who aren't sex repulsed, or even say they enjoy sex, just don't do this. Which can lead us sexual partners to conclude that they don't do it because they don't care enough to make a compromise, or even try, which is a pretty shitty feeling.

Precisely.  It’s beyond painful.

 

@anamikanon, I have been reading you thoroughly and thank you for your ability and time here.  I read my thoughts and feelings in many of your words as you’re just so (sadly) relatable. I hope throwing it out there is helpful to you.  

 

The frustration of having a problem that isn’t satisfactorily solvable for anyone is what gets me....

[gaogao]

16 hours ago, anamikanon said:

Yes. To the point of assuring me he wanted it when I sensed his reluctance. He attributed it to his inexperience and told be he definitely wanted a sexual relationship with me.

 I'm sorry to hear that. i think he probably needs to understand himself better and really think about what he wants...? He's probably saying that he wants to have sex because he knows what it means for you and wants to make you happy, and it's not like he's repulsed -- but it's kind of backfiring because as you say, you're not blind and you can tell that deep down he's reluctant. To be fair, there's always some reluctance, especially for guys, to admit that sex is a lot of effort for them.

 

Aces often feel quite lost before knowing what asexuality is - we wonder whether being indifferent to sex is weird, whether we're normal or not because everyone else might just be exaggerating about wanting it.. etc...? I know that it was surprising for me to find out that people really did want to have sex, rather than just pretending because 'it's cool'. Imo for girls who are still often slut-shamed, it's easier for us to come to terms with the idea of asexuality while guys maybe feel pressured to be quite hyper sexual? It's just a theory, though - I don't know how true that is. Good luck with your relationship, though. I definitely understand that it is tough

 

15 hours ago, Tarfeather said:

And this is totally off topic, but if you're into really great food, why would you ever eat out, rather than meeting up with friends and cooking together?

Off topic also but i agree that cooking together is super important!!! My foodie friends and I have made some really ambitious stuff at home, but there are some things we just can't get right - when that happens, we like to try them in a restaurant to see what they're like when cooked by experts ... Also, eating out gives us great ideas for things to try in the kitchen as well - you gotta sample art to appreciate it and see what exists before adapting it yourself! Also actually, my gf is a great chef - she used work in a restaurant. When she's in control of the kitchen, amazing things happen and it feels a lot more comfortable to try new things :3