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Asexuality in the LGBTQ+ community


Jared M. K.

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I wanted to ask if anyone else has had negative feedback or comments from fellow members of the LGBTQ+ community? I personally have been told many a time that asexuality is "not real," and that it's just lack of libido, even though i thoroughly explain to them (if given the chance) that i know for a fact i'm asexual after being told and thinking about old friendships with people that actually wanted more, and made the advances that were obvious of this, but none of it ever clicked with me. I am partly autistic, but i tried to go on a date with a woman who i knew fairly well just to be sure of my sexuality, and it was affirming after i failed to realize her advances or feel aroused in any sense, emotionally or physically. I know me being asexual is real, but a question from a friend who is a lesbian has me falling back into my depression. Her question was, "Why should asexuality be a part of the LGBTQ+ banner? It's a lack of sexuality, so shouldn't it just be like heterosexuality and not be on the banner?" I'm only now learning more and more about my sexuality (I only discovered i was ace six years ago), and i just didn't have a definitive way to explain why it should be included besides knowing it's real because i experience it and feel it every day i wake up. Can anyone please help me with answering her question that shows why asexuality is and forever should be in the banner? I'm sorry my topic got a bit jumbled, but this is the first time i've so openly asked for any help with understanding how to talk about my sexuality. Apologies if any of this is confusing.

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Well, my immediate response to that is that "LGBTQ+" contains the "T" aspect for Trans people. Trans isn't a sexual orientation and has little (if anything) to do with sexuality, so would that be excluded too under her definition?

 

Spoiler

Disclaimer: I personally don't think Asexuality should necessarily fall under the LGBTQ+ banner, but there are many opinions out in the field and I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here for the other side :P 

 

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Unfortunately this is something I have seen brought up a few times here. Now my own personal experience with the LGBT+ community has been positive. Even at my college days I got along better with the LGBT kids than a fellow Aro-Ace classmate...the only ace I have ever met in real life..and sadly no real meaningful friendship came of that either. Quite disappointing and disheartening.

 

I seem to have a better exp with LGBT community..however I think in my case it had more to do with being in a very conservative state so the "odd" ones stuck together and they accepted me. I dont know if my exp would have been different if I were in a more liberal/larger LGBT area i.e. SF or Chicago or Seattle. Part of the problem is that we aces dont have our own real community outside of the virtual world. That is were it can get REAL lonely and isolating.  One thing that has gotten LGBT folks through tough times is that sense of 'community' and 'belonging' - that and real life role models, media publicity - we just get met with erasure in the media and no real sense of cohesion. 

 

The best case scenario would be for us to have our OWN community like the LGBT have - however since we are soo few and disorganized or just plain apathetic that I dont see anything materializing in the near future.  I myself have taken to going between LGBT community (which seem more accepting of an ace here) and other monastic communities of 'non-sexual' (allosexuals) i.e. Tibetan Buddhists, Jain aesthetics, Sufi monastics. There at least I dont feel like such an odd ball and have some acceptance. Its a very sad state of affairs that no real-world ace community exists. Online support only goes so far.

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There's so much god damn gatekeeping with the online community, it's sickening. It's founded (in my experience with observing behavior from others) in the belief that people for whatever reason think "asexuality is synonymous with cellibacy" or believe the myth that "correctional abuse" doesn't happen across all sexual orientations ("I don't like your identity, so I'm going to abuse/assault you until you change").  This is why a lot of people have tried to come up with an alternative shorthand over the years because they're tired of the toxicity within the online LGBT community. 

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What the people before me said, plus the fact that asexuality is a sexual minority and the LGBTQ+ banner is an amalgamation of all that was considered “abnormal.” We are one of the most misunderstood communities out there, imo, by everyone, from your cishet to your transpan. What your lesbian friend is doing is what the heterosexual community was doing to gay people, i.e. marginalising us further and making us feel misunderstood and wrong for feeling (or not feeling) like we do (or don’t).

 

So again real quick,

• Why should we be part of the LGBTQ+ banner?

a) Q stands for Queer and what are we if not queer?

b) T stands for Trans and it’s not a sexual orientation, so why shouldn’t we be allowed “partnership?”

c) We are a marginalised community and we should also be allowed to receive support.

 

 

 

Now, on a side note.

Many folks here are of the belief that we shouldn’t associate with the LGBT. That stems from the very ingrained notion in the rainbow community that sex-positive=“talk about sex and whoever is not okay with it can go fuck themselves.” It’s kinda sad, but whatever, maybe one day we will have a better rl community, who knows.

 

Stay strong! We deserve to be LGBTQ+ just as much as the other sexual minority!

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Think of sexuality in terms of mathematics. The number scale has positive numbers, negative numbers, fractions, irrational numbers and even imaginary ones. It also has the number zero. Zero is my hero. It seems like nothing but one can use it to multiply things by ten, all the way to infinity. Returning to the LGBT community, adding asexuals might seem like a square peg in a round hole but one ought to think in terms of sexual orientation. Some like their own sex, some the other sex. Some want to be like the opposite sex. I simply don't want any sex at all. Once again zero, but this doesn't mean it's not a number. I suppose I am fortunate because the local LGBT community both knows of and accepts my sexual orientation. I think this may be the result of the conservative environment we exist in. In more liberal settings the LGBT community might be more inclined to be choosier. 

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Ace exclusionists are terrible and I apologize on the behalf of the rest of the MOGAI community for them.

The community is for all orientation and gender minorities + intersex, period. You are welcome, and should feel that way.

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1 minute ago, Flower Boy said:

Ace exclusionists are terrible and I apologize on the behalf of the rest of the MOGAI community for them.

The community is for all orientation and gender minorities + intersex, period. You are welcome, and should feel that way.

the sentiment is nice, but you can really only speak for yourself. 

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I don't see why Asexuality must be in the LGBT+ banner, but I also don't see why it absolutely cannot be ( as others have made good cases in this thread already).

A key argument for why it belongs is because asexual people are put out by the assumptions of heteronormativity just like everyone else who isn't straight. 

Spoiler

Some (ace) people may not feel like Asexuality belongs under the lgbt+ umbrella because it's not a sexual orientation. In my opinion, that's a purely semantic objection.

Some view it as just too different from everything else. The goals of activism for asexuals are just too dissimilar from the overall goals in LGBT+ activism. I sort of agree. 

There are those with in ace and lgbt+ communities who think asexual people just aren't oppressed enough to belong. I think severity may come into play when we are prioritizing what to problems address, but it shouldn't decide who gets a voice or not. (tbh I've come across some very severe things happening to asexual people, but these were the cases of individuals. One can speculate, but the frequencies of such things are simply not known). 

LGBT communities and resources are certainly more "pronounced" or at least accessible than ace ones alone...I wonder if asexual people would desire to be included as much if there were stronger ace communities. 

I think there is an assumption that ace people will find safety and acceptance within LGBT+ communities. Truth is, ignorance is a human condition, not a cis-het one... 

 

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10 hours ago, Yeast said:

Think of sexuality in terms of mathematics. The number scale has positive numbers, negative numbers, fractions, irrational numbers and even imaginary ones. It also has the number zero. Zero is my hero. It seems like nothing but one can use it to multiply things by ten, all the way to infinity. Returning to the LGBT community, adding asexuals might seem like a square peg in a round hole but one ought to think in terms of sexual orientation. Some like their own sex, some the other sex. Some want to be like the opposite sex. I simply don't want any sex at all. Once again zero, but this doesn't mean it's not a number. I suppose I am fortunate because the local LGBT community both knows of and accepts my sexual orientation. I think this may be the result of the conservative environment we exist in. In more liberal settings the LGBT community might be more inclined to be choosier. 

my thoughts exactly! I often wondered why I have had a MUCH more positive experience with the LGBT community compared to other negative stories I have heard here. More conservative env, less tolerance for differences = more acceptance even for an ace within LGBT. Shift to a more liberal area and it might go down and more selective gatekeeping.

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The LGBTQ+ Community is a community for people who belong to a sexual minority, for people who feel alienated in a world full of heterosexual relationships, for people who feel like they are not accepted or even discriminated against for who they are,  for people who have to explain their sexuality or gender, because others don't understand what it is and means or because others think that what they feel isn't real. It is a community for representation and awareness of sexual orientations and I assume can also work as a safe place for people to express themselves for who they are.

Asexuals might fit into every single one of those categories and need representation, so people become more aware of it being real. It might help people who are ace and don't know about it and feel like they don't belong anywhere. It's good to meet people who have made similar experiences (even if they have a different sexual orientation) and I think those might be reasons to include Asexuality into the LGBTQ+ community.

Those are just my thoughts, I haven't made any negative experiences with the community so far, so I never really had to say anything about it until now.

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I do not belong under the LGBT banner. It is watered down and ridiculous enough without including cishet men like me in it too. If people want to associate with it then great, good for them, but it is not for me.

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1 hour ago, Verbosoul said:

Well, my immediate response to that is that "LGBTQ+" contains the "T" aspect for Trans people. Trans isn't a sexual orientation and has little (if anything) to do with sexuality, so would that be excluded too under her definition?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Disclaimer: I personally don't think Asexuality should necessarily fall under the LGBTQ+ banner, but there are many opinions out in the field and I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here for the other side :P 

 

Some of us within the community think that the "T"  (and in fact, the entire gender identity movement) ought not to be included - not because we don't like them or because we don't want them to succeed (speaking for myself, I very much do), but because trans and nonbinary people need access to different mental/physical health and etc. resources than do LGB people. There is intersectionality, of course, but I tend to believe that the trans/gender identity movement should be its own thing.

 

The LGB organizes more than just social events, and exists as a lobbyist group as well as an umbrella under which numerous not-for-profit organizations operate. There are tangible resources that go to LGB-labeled organizations, which aren't the right kind of things that trans and nonbinary people need - and vice versa.

 

I'm a cissexual, bisexual woman - my needs are very different from those of a transsexual heterosexual woman, and lumping us both in the same category would be unfair to both of us.

 

As a social thing - like Pride events - that's different.

 

49 minutes ago, Maks9090 said:

What the people before me said, plus the fact that asexuality is a sexual minority and the LGBTQ+ banner is an amalgamation of all that was considered “abnormal.”  [...]

a) Q stands for Queer and what are we if not queer?

 

To the first point, the LGB movement was organized to garner visibility, educate regarding, and lobby for gay, lesbian, and bisexual people; it isn't really meant to be a catch-all for everything that's "abnormal," that's just what's happened over the years. 

 

Asexuality is tangential to the original mission/values of the LGB movement in that it regards sexual autonomy, but, as you all know, it's autonomy to say "no, I actually, really, truly, for serious do not want to have sex with anybody, ever." Again, if we're considering the LGB umbrella from more than just a social standpoint, the things that the ace community needs access to in terms of educational material, visibility, and mental/physical health resources differs from what homosexual and bisexual people need. For those reasons, I don't think it belongs grouped with LGB.

 

To the second point - there are a lot of aces who would disagree adamantly with that statement.

 

46 minutes ago, Flower Boy said:

Ace exclusionists are terrible and I apologize on the behalf of the rest of the MOGAI community for them.

The community is for all orientation and gender minorities + intersex, period. You are welcome, and should feel that way.

Hey, now.

I want to make sure this is emphasized because this post has the potential to upset a lot of people (and because I've already been called terrible and I haven't even posted, yet :lol:). 

 

My perspective is coming from the LGB movement as it exists beyond the scope of a social movement. Obviously I don't think that anybody should be judging anybody else based on who they are, who they do or don't screw, or what gender they present as. We should feel free to hang out with whomever we'd like in whatever environment that ends up being. Pride events can easily encompass LGB folks and ace folks and members of the trans/NB community, because there is a lot of overlap in the general struggles we face. But politics and money have to butt their ugly heads in and ruin everything. It's really important to me that people have the political voice they need to speak for their group, and that they have access to the resources their group needs. The more communities we lump under the LGB umbrella, the more diluted these things get, to the detriment of everybody that's included. We should be supporting each other, but ultimately our needs are different enough that we should be functioning as our own things.

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On this topic, a distinction should be made when you ask does asexuality belong in the LGBT universe. Are you asking—

—should asexuality be considered in the  LGBT+ activism movement

or

—does asexuality belong in LGBT social communities

or are you asking something else entirely? 

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Just a reminder, an asexual is described as someone lacking sexual attraction, a specific asexual may not want to have sex but that is not a criteria for describing oneself as such. I feel like that distinction seems to be getting lost on this site recently.

 

As for the post, this quote is somewhat apropos, “The oppressors, who oppress, exploit, and rape by virtue of their power, cannot find in this power the strength to liberate either the oppressed or themselves. They have no consciousness of themselves as persons or as members of an oppressed class. The oppressed find in the oppressors their model of 'manhood.'” The LGBT community should be careful of their exclusionary tactics, the community was formed to bring marginalised groups into the general society. Are asexuals not marginalised?

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2 minutes ago, Chibe90 said:

 Are asexuals not marginalised?

presumably you're going for a yes, but some people would say no. Unlike other groups considered in the LGBT+ umbrella, there isn't a lot documented about how asexual people are treated...

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Well, I can at least say thank you to so many responses in so little time! Ace Of Base, though, there have been many documented cases of asexuals being marginalized and put down by both members of the LGBTQ+ community and the general heterosexual public. I recently started counseling with an LGBTQ+ specific counselor, and they told me they've had over a dozen asexuals in their clientele who were put down and shamed by their own community. Now i'm not saying it's everywhere, but from what i've experienced and seen, we as asexuals get more hate than love on a daily basis. Not necessarily more or less than other members/sexualities in the banner, but a considerable amount. Honestly though, thank you all for the responses. I wasn't expecting so much feedback so quickly.

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20 minutes ago, Jared M. K. said:

Well, I can at least say thank you to so many responses in so little time! Ace Of Base, though, there have been many documented cases of asexuals being marginalized and put down by both members of the LGBTQ+ community and the general heterosexual public.

I've come across a lot of anecdotes—cases ranging from being discharged from the military because their asexuality was misdiagnosed as a personality disorder, to spousal rape. I don't doubt that asexual people may face  marginalization in and out of the LGBT+ community, but those who believe otherwise want to see numbers...numbers that I don't have. If you do please share. 

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Lucas Monteiro

I won't want to be part of a group who doesn't want asexuals to be part of their community and to be honest a lot of people from the LBGT movement doesn't want us there too, they think we don't deserve or that we are far away from to be queer, personally I don't see that I'm queer just because I'm asexual but opinions vary with different asexuals, so I can't say for everybody. Besides that, there is the argument that some part or majority of the movement from the LGBT has lost their ways, sometimes they may even hurt more than help and their image from today doesn't help too.

 

If someone who is ace wants to be part of the LGBT then I hope they may feel welcomed there, but I would advice to put in mind that oneself doesn't speak for the whole community. Every person has their own experiences and opinions about the matter, each person knows what they have been gone through.

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Being in San Francisco, with a much bigger LGBTQ+ community, I always saw aven community being represented ... in pride parade and festivals, and in community groups.  Of course, LGBTQ+ community in and by itself is very diverse, and has its own bigots.  Like any diverse community, there are some who harbor hatred for others who are not like themselves -- not a whole lot different from the bigots in the straight community who hate LGBTQ+ people.  I wouldn't let them deter my believe that the whole reason LGBTQ+ acronym kept growing is that the general consensus in that community is to be inclusive and supportive of all sexual minorities, including asexuals.

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As a gay/homoromantic greysexual male I feel I am both a part and separate from the LGBT community. Everyone knows me as gay, but not yet for my grey-asexuality. Next pride event I intend to publicy celebrate the ace side of myself. We'll see how that goes.

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Galactic Turtle

I'm not attracted to people. I don't innately desire to have sex or have a partner. I don't see how my lifestyle as brought about by my sexual orientation in any way aligns with the LGBT community. Even if I did hangout in LGBT spaces I wouldn't consider myself part of that community. The very fact that I can pick and choose for myself if I am or not tells me that I'm not.

 

I can't decide if I'm a woman or decide if I'm black. I am regardless of who I socially align myself with.

 

I think people would call me ace even if I denied the label and said my lifestyle doesnt reflect that of the majority of ace people just as people say I have a disorder even if I swear up and down that I don't.

 

Idk, I just always saw stuff like this as things that are placed upon you by others rather than something you choose. If asexuality becomes seen by the majority as "queer" then I am regardless of what my personal opinion is.

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The alphabet soup that is LGBT+ certainly has to change, not just for simplicity sakes but to ward off those within the community who downplay anything that comes after LGB. I mean, we still have viewpoints against bisexuals within the community.

 

I think that is the true test for an inclusive set of communities. Sooner or later an image change is necessary to accommodate the new way of things. If it can't do that it really can't call itself inclusive.

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Janus the Fox

I'd say a lack of sexuality is still a sexual minority so should be part of the LGBT, especially should cover those with LGB romantic orientations under the ace banner, the same is true for non-binary related gender identities coming under the T as broad is T is, should be included naturally

 

It'll take time for Asex identity to be more known and more accepted, it is early but the visibility is growing with more identifying with and communicating the lesser conventional sexual identity norms.

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People need to realize that just because the LGBTQ are a marginalised group this does not make them saints and eternally innocents. I recently had to witness a shitstorm where someone innocently asked what the I and A in LGBTQIA stood for and there were people saying A is not for asexuality and  LGBT people passionately arguing that the A stood for ally because of the history in 1970s that is what the A originally meant or something like that. And when another tried to argue that you can't use allies in today's context they did the normal sjw bs.

 

I am sick of the tokenism, sjw mantras etc that goes on in that community and I don't want to be in a community that excludes my sexuality.

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