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Am I a Male Lesbian and What Should I Do?


annoyingmous

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I'm a male, but I've been wishing that I was born a girl since around 2 years now. I LOVE their social role, and I hate being a male whenever it makes any sort of difference. If I didn't want to get into a serious relationship, I would definitely go transgender one day. But I am also attracted to females. However, I could probably also have more fun on the bed if I was a lesbian girl, as I see the male genitalia related stuff as things to get done as possible. Also, despite being attracted to females, if I was a lesbian female, I would probably enjoy being objectified a bit.

 

Am I a male lesbian, and what should I do? Even though I won't go suicidal for this reason, this feeling starts to hurt me more and more with each passing day.

 

I live in Turkey, which is a Muslim country, so the chances of me finding a lesbian female who would also be attracted to a transgender female is rather small. I also want to get married and there are, of course, no such thing as homosexual marriage in Turkey. (Although I think I could break the system if I go trans :p) Also, I have a somewhat boxy chin with an ugly, big nose so I wouldn't be very confident of the way I looked if I were to go transgender.

 

If I don't go trans however, I think I will have those random moments of sadness such as when I stare into the photo of a female celebrity for multiple seconds; not because I'm a pervert, but because I just want to be like them. Can a psychologist help me with that? If they can, would it be by making me like my gender, or by making me focus less on the feminine side of myself? The last question is out of curiousty.

 

I'm hoping for answers, and thanks for reading.

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3 minutes ago, annoyingmous said:

(Although I think I could break the system if I go trans :p)

That actually happened in Russia a few years ago. Their own transphobic policies created that loophole. :P

 

That said, I don't envy the position you're in. You are valid as a lesbian trans woman if that is how you identify, regardless of what path you walk. The choice to transition is obviously not one to make lightly, and you seem aware of that, especially considering the social climate of your home culture.

 

If you're worried about certain facial features, know that 1) for those who pursue Hormone Replacement Therapy, fat redistribution does a lot of soften the face, if a bit slowly, and 2) Facial Feminization Surgery is an option that can actually really help with the features that HRT alone might not fix.

 

I am uncertain about how the psychologists in Turkey handle trans issues, but I can say that where I'm from, the proper treatment for gender dysphoria is typically some form of transition.

 

Best of luck with everything, and welcome to AVEN!

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It's possible to learn how to use your strengths to help support you in the moments of sadness. Don't expect to make sadness go away, it's both natural and healthy.. .But, if you work on being able to be with sadness and not break a little on the inside for it - how (and when) you feel sad might change. Reaching that is possible and takes consistent work. I don't know if a psychologist would be best or not, as I did not work with them for that. I work with a psychologist to learn executive functioning, and to process my week with him, as well as discuss general personal growth I make. Instead, I learned about dealing with sadness and anxiety through spiritual teachers I found online, and my own independent work. That worked for me but, Everyone is different from each other - and the same path won't be the right one for all. So, it's worth giving the pysch a shot at facing your sadness, it could be right for you.

 

... I think, both the will to go forward with such growth, and the work one does on their own for themselves in that line, are both necessary to see it come into fruition. You want to look to the outside world for guidance, grounding, and ideas you would not have thought of on your own - but you also need to work on your own - however that means for you - because it is about consistency of behavior that brings change. and you can't have someone else do that for you - you gotta be the one. 

 

 

 

 

 

I am sorry that I don't know much about what makes a person what gender. 

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A lesbian is a homosexual woman who is romantically or sexually attracted to other women. As a male, you cannot be a lesbian.

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9 hours ago, annoyingmous said:

Also, I have a somewhat boxy chin with an ugly, big nose so I wouldn't be very confident of the way I looked if I were to go transgender.

women come in all shapes and sizes... with and without boxy chins and big noses. I think the idea of THE perfect woman with a cute nose and girly face shape and whatever is not a very good one and both trans and "regular" women often struggle to get over that in their own ways.

 

can't tell you how that is in turkey, but as far as my experiences with shrinks go they'll generally help you with your chosen way of making you feel better. (except if your chosen way sucks lol. "as long as it makes a proper amount of sense", is what I mean.) anyway, all the ones I've talked to avoided giving concrete advice on what to do like the plague. if you say you're going for a transition, or you want to make your peace with your body how it is, that'll be your choice. 

 

and my opinion on being a male lesbian: if you're a transwoman, you're a woman. so you'd really just be a normal lesbian which isn't weird or uncommon or anything. if you think you're male as long as your body is male, call yourself straight - I don't think it matters. point is, there's no reason transwomen coudn't like other women, and what you call it is up to you.

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11 hours ago, Evil said:

A lesbian is a homosexual woman who is romantically or sexually attracted to other women. As a male, you cannot be a lesbian.

If OP ends up being a trans woman, that’s a different story though, because trans women can be lesbians.

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8 minutes ago, ChillaKilla said:

If OP ends up being a trans woman, that’s a different story though, because trans women can be lesbians.

Yes, they can. 100% agree with that. 

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As a self-identifying male, no, you cannot be lesbian. Lesbians have suffered systematic erasure (replaced by hypersexuality) and oppression by society for basically ever - "male lesbians" contribute to that Idea. 

 

And it may just be a language barrier we're working with, here, but I don't know that someone can just "go" transgender - you either are or you aren't. 

 

I think take some time to figure yourself out, but in the meantime, I strongly suggest against calling yourself a lesbian. Lesbians are women who are attracted to other women. There's no room for "male" in that concept. 

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1 hour ago, fiѕh said:

I think the idea of THE perfect woman with a cute nose and girly face shape and whatever is not a very good one and both trans and "regular" women often struggle to get over that in their own ways.

agreed! and also, men of all sorts struggle with this too, whether they are feminine men or maybe they have traits or likes that are more often seen as feminine. Or perhaps they are a transman or nonbinary. Or perhaps they are trying to face their attraction or other experiences towards/of women.

 

It goes both ways to for both men and women, for both masculinity and femininity - having ideas about what is feminine or masculine... they can be both reasonable and useful and wanted... but they can also be difficult to reconcile with oneself and one's own experiences. And it can also be difficult to reconcile when a loved one needs to... regardless of the good meaning gender preconceptions do bring about, they can be a double edged sword. 

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50 minutes ago, Chimeric said:

As a self-identifying male, no, you cannot be lesbian. Lesbians have suffered systematic erasure (replaced by hypersexuality) and oppression by society for basically ever - "male lesbians" contribute to that Idea. 

 

And it may just be a language barrier we're working with, here, but I don't know that someone can just "go" transgender - you either are or you aren't. 

 

I think take some time to figure yourself out, but in the meantime, I strongly suggest against calling yourself a lesbian. Lesbians are women who are attracted to other women. There's no room for "male" in that concept. 

@annoyingmous I am sorry to say but I agree with Chimeric. As long as you identify as a male, please identify as heterosexual. If you do figure out you are a transwoman, then feel free to identify as lesbian - but it is just as valid for you to have your experiences whether you are a cis male, nonbinary, or a trans woman. Don't make play things of identity - but feel free to ask about them and explore them, and explore yourself with tentative identity in mind. You made the right decision to ask and think about these things :) Whether or not your initial assumption is accurate, and whether or not you find answers... taking the time to explore oneself and get to know oneself better is always a great thing to do!

 

 

 

For me... I was convinced I was ace at first, and I also eventually identified that I was a transwoman. But after some time I had doubts on both. I realized, that while I might have found these labels... and thought they fit.... that it still could be they didn't fit. There could be something better out there, and I didn't have to force them to fit me.

 

Like how that Cinderella story from Grimm's Fairy Tales. Her sisters wanted to fit the glass slipper so that the prince would marry them. They cut off their toes or a chunk out of their heel to do it, but it still wouldn't fit.... uh, sorry for the gruesome metaphor... 

 

But, I realized that it was okay to say, "maybe I am not" and explore other options. I explored greysexuality as an identity, and cisgenderless male as an identity, but - only greysexuality fit. Trying something else helped me to see perspective, and that was critical for me! Trying to be a cisgenderless man, I discovered that being a woman actually fit me better than I thought. Trying to see if greysexuality fit me okay, helped me to better discover my sexuality, and I realized I was greysexual!

 

In both regards, I felt it was healthier for me to not commit to my identity just yet, and explore different identity. And both times that was a very great choice to have made.. I learned so much both times! In one, I learned that I was in fact as I suspected - and returned to that identity. The other time I learned that I wasn't - and I found instead, another identity that suits me better. 

 

 

 

 

So, could you be a transwoman... perhaps! That could be valid, some of the things you express line up, even though some things you've said don't quite fit what's commonly expressed from other transwomen.

 

But... be careful that you could alternatively be a man who enjoys cross dressing, or a feminine man who enjoys typically feminine wants and expressions, or a nonbinary person perhaps demigender or genderflux, or you could be a man fascinated with feminine culture too. I am sure there are other identities that might fit you but these pop into my mind based on what you said... including transwoman, but also those other too. 

 

Whatever you are is valid, but be careful to be true to who you are, and find that label... and sometimes it takes time and exploration. 

 

 

 

 

 

PS.

Again, sorry that I don't really know how to determine one's gender... for me, I looked to who I was regardless of identity for guidance, and looked to the labels as expression of what I found. For me, I found exploration and self-education was the best route. I can't say if that's the best way to do it, or even if it'd work for anyone else... Just, that that's the way that I figured my own gender out. 

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butterflydreams
47 minutes ago, Chimeric said:

As a self-identifying male, no, you cannot be lesbian. Lesbians have suffered systematic erasure (replaced by hypersexuality) and oppression by society for basically ever - "male lesbians" contribute to that Idea. 

 

And it may just be a language barrier we're working with, here, but I don't know that someone can just "go" transgender - you either are or you aren't. 

 

I think take some time to figure yourself out, but in the meantime, I strongly suggest against calling yourself a lesbian. Lesbians are women who are attracted to other women. There's no room for "male" in that concept. 

All of this.

 

Also, there’s a history of jokes being made by men saying they’re lesbians trapped in men’s bodies. It’s pretty gross honestly and it totally steamrolls over what it means to be trans, and what it means to be a lesbian. 

 

I would also suggest refraining from calling yourself a lesbian while you’re identified as male. I’m willing to give the language barrier the benefit of the doubt here, but I’m getting a lot of weird vibes from this post. I’ve noticed there’s a lot of fetishization of women and lesbians in the trans woman community and I really hate it. I’m not saying that’s happening here, but I’m just getting some vibes that aren’t sitting well with me.

 

Definitely take the time to figure yourself out, especially before calling yourself a lesbian.

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By saying that you are male, do you mean that you are a man or just that you are biologically male?

I ask this becuase there is a reason why i don´t call myself female. Because for me that would mean that i am biologically female, which i unfortunately am not.(not yet atleast)

I am in someway attracted to women myself but i don call myself a lesbian yet for similar reasons. 

I have no problem with others using it differently.

 

Yeah but as the others already have said take your time before you start to use those kind of labels on yourself, especially among others.

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@Mezzo Forte Wow, I had no idea that actually happened before. :D Thanks, I didn't know about the existence of FFS. The results seem pretty nice, but I'm not very sure about the extra cost, especially considering that I live in Turkey and 1 dollar is worth around 4 Turkish Liras since a while. (And making 1 TL is as hard as making a dollar) Now that I think about it, I might stay away from the surgery option completely unless I move to another country just for the cost of it. I would be pretty old until I save enough money anyways.

 

@float on I don't like complaining about all of my problems at once, but I currently have other problems in life as well. They are not only psychological, but I guess all the problems have psychological effects, and working on my feelings on my own sadly doesn't feel like a problem anymore. I do understand what you mean though, a psychologist can't help me unless I am willing to feel better anyways.

 

@Evil,@Chimeric I understand. Although I use the term "Male Lesbian" completely seperately from "Lesbian", because it has the word "Lesbian" in it, it suggests that it's something almost identical to being a lesbian to anybody that haven't made a research on the topic, and even those who did look into that topic might think there is a link between male lesbians and the true lesbians. One of the reasons why I created this topic was to actually try and get another name instead of calling myself a "Male Lesbian," if there were one. But as they can easily be mistaken, I guess explaining my situation as "Being a heterosexual male while also wanting to be a female" will work better than saying that I am a male lesbian. (Even when I do say that I am a male lesbian, I have to explain it's meaning anyways, so using a term that is not scientifically accepted and/or widely known doesn't make that much sense.)

I meant "going under surgery" by "Transgender", as I thought that's what it's meaning was. Apparently I was wrong. I think it is completely offensive to suggest that one can just choose their prefered sexuality, as that belief often justifies being homophobic. I apology about that.

 

@fiѕh As much as I agree that it's not a good thing to expect people to have a perfect look, it is also only neutral that people expect others to look good. I am not very confident about the way I look as a male, and I think I would be even less confident as a female. It wouldn't be about feeling less female, it would just be about looking ugly. It isn't a problem exclusive to transwoman, but it's just a problem I know I'd have if I decide to take that path.

 

@float on I did also question whether or not I could be something else, but I never actually knew there to look for it. I ran into a wiki about it, so I guess it might be the best place for me to find out what I really am. I did hear about a few terms about males who are generally interested in activities that are generally related to being a female, but I don't really fit into that so I just didn't do any further research about it. Sure, I don't have any interest in football, and having a car was never my biggest dream. But I also didn't ever dream of putting on make-up or wearing stuff that are exclusive to females. I would like to put on make-up, but it isn't a reason for me to question my gender. I also didn't ever dream of having women's dress on me. Pretty sure I would wear fancy stuff on special dates, but I would prefer jeans even as a female.

As a final note to emphasize, :P I will definitely look into that wiki to check if I actually could be something I never even heard of before. I will not call myself a "Male Lesbian" anymore, as that might rightfully be seen as kind of offensive

 

@Kimmie. I am not exactly sure what do you mean by "Man or biologically male". I was born a male, and I still am a male. Based on your message, I guess that means our situations might be somewhat similiar.

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What i mean is that when i hear male or female i think of biological sex and not gender indentity.

And i am not a man but unfortunately biologial male (once again unfortunately) With other words AMAB. That was a big misstake from everyone involved because i should have born female. i am a women deep inside.

 

I don´t know how similar we are  though we seems to have completly different views on certain things.

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for me, "female"... "woman" - pretty interchangeable. I don't see either as "reserved" for any particular meaning, except a comparison of two categories of gender, in whatever context that applies to. 

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