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preference/orientation


Frogster

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I missed the moment when the cultural conversation changed from preference to orientation. Since the 70's I had been thinking that people who I wanted to be close friends with had this liking for sexual activity and considered it a required part of being close. I thought that they chose to be that way just like I chose to service their equipment as a way of saying that I liked them enough to do this distasteful thing for them. In finding, after giving it my best effort, that I just don't think I will ever like it , I think maybe they can't help how they are either.  Maybe I was closer to understanding when as a kid I saw all the groaning, huffing and puffing and grimacing as an indication that something was urgently amiss and needed to corrected. That they were sort of helpless in the face of it and that I needed to fix it promptly.

  I've quit servicing sexual body parts but I really cared for some of those people, still do. I wonder, are they just like that without choosing? And am I understanding the words and concepts correctly? 

  Another question, I don't even know how to ask it because it breaks my heart. About love-when you want to be there for someone, and have sat by their hospital bed, listened to them for years, told them your secrets, cleaned up after them laughed with them followed them all over the country and for them its not love because the sex isn't mutual , is that called being romantic? 

  

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I've always seen love as universal. To love is to share intimacy and to share intimacy is to share deep emotion. A sense of closeness that doesn't have to be sexual. I have felt that the only difference between intimate friendship and romantic love is the manner of service, to use your words.

 

In that way though, you can define it however you see fit. But never let yourself believe that you love someone less because you can't touch them.

 

<3

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On 2/18/2018 at 2:24 PM, froglady said:

About love-when you want to be there for someone, and have sat by their hospital bed, listened to them for years, told them your secrets, cleaned up after them laughed with them followed them all over the country and for them its not love because the sex isn't mutual , is that called being romantic? 

I think so. Romance to me means getting to know somebody so well you even begin liking the parts of their personality that aren't perfect. Not necessarily loving other people's faults but realizing that person would not be the same without their faults. If they were not the same person you would not feel the same about them. Just because you don't have sex with someone it doesn't mean they can't love you. I never had sex with my family but I knew they all loved me. You seem to have had many experiences with your friend so I think they probably love you, at least as a companion. I form strong bonds with the people I choose to be my friends. However these are intellectual instead of emotional ones. This probably means romantic attraction need not just be based on feelings. In most situations it is probably a mix of the mind and the heart. 

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On 2/18/2018 at 12:24 PM, froglady said:

About love-when you want to be there for someone, and have sat by their hospital bed, listened to them for years, told them your secrets, cleaned up after them laughed with them followed them all over the country and for them its not love because the sex isn't mutual , is that called being romantic? 

 

In my humble opinion, this is love. I say that because these things are things, like Yeast alluded to, I would do for family members, my mother or father, my sons. I would not consider these actions in the category of romance because, I believe, the dynamics of what drives a person to do these things are inspired and generated from a place of selflessness. 

 

When I think of romance, I think of things done 1. to make ourselves more appealing to someone else, 2. based in reciprocity (or the hope that these actions will be returned), and 3. to demonstrate fondness or affection towards another individual that we would like to make our partner or mate. So while what you describe may fall into the notion of 'being romantic', for me the deciding factor would be the motivating force behind the actions. In other words, if the actions you are doing are being done with no other intention than a person really wanting to (like a parent would do for a child), I would say it's amore! :)

 

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the philosophy regarding different types of love. This article explains them (loosely): https://thoughtcatalog.com/rania-naim/2016/02/the-7-kinds-of-love-and-how-they-can-help-you-define-yours-according-to-the-ancient-greeks/

 

I believe that these types of love are defined using different terminology but to me they demonstrate the expansiveness of love and how there really is enough to give to others and still have plenty left for ourselves. <3 I've loved individuals who I know didn't love me back (and sex may have been a contributing factor there) and that did hurt until I realized how empowering it is to love myself first which makes it easier to give it away freely with zero expectation of it being returned. 

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14 hours ago, Yeast said:

I think so. Romance to me means getting to know somebody so well you even begin liking the parts of their personality that aren't perfect. Not necessarily loving other people's faults but realizing that person would not be the same without their faults. If they were not the same person you would not feel the same about them. Just because you don't have sex with someone it doesn't mean they can't love you. I never had sex with my family but I knew they all loved me. You seem to have had many experiences with your friend so I think they probably love you, at least as a companion. I form strong bonds with the people I choose to be my friends. However these are intellectual instead of emotional ones. This probably means romantic attraction need not just be based on feelings. In most situations it is probably a mix of the mind and the heart. 

Thanks. The part about it being a mix of the mind and heart helps me think about it better.

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13 hours ago, smack12776 said:

'm not sure if you are familiar with the philosophy regarding different types of love. This article explains them (loosely): https://thoughtcatalog.com/rania-naim/2016/02/the-7-kinds-of-love-and-how-they-can-help-you-define-yours-according-to-the-ancient-greeks/

 

I am familiar with some but not all of these concepts and words from my study of Koine Greek. Thanks. I think this can help me ask better questions. It seems,now, that the experience described by the English word "romance" is kind of like "philos" plus just an ephemeral dusting of "eros" .  Or maybe like the feeling of the warmth of sunlight on ones skin without the sunburn...like wanting to bask in the warmth for a long time with someone. Or like friendship that delights in some kind of shared joy dance. Is that sort of what is described by the term "romantic"?  

 

I wonder about where the desire for acceptance and affirmation fit. I wonder about agapaic love and the problem of loneliness.

 

I am not so much looking for an identity as for a common language. Still, I suspect that once-upon-a-time I wanted romance without the sex. 

 

Anyway, thanks for reminding me that I can look at this from this part of myself.

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