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Autochorissexual Masturbation Question


Flump222

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Hm, I think it’s possible for anyone to have a dream about sex. Aces tend not to or not very often, probably the same for autochoris folk. But it ain’t universal of course ;)

 

 

i could probably have counted all my sex dreams if I tried. Probably less than ten ever. Most of them weren’t even really sex lol. Like, clothes on. Or stuff. But in the dream that was sex lol. Dreams have their own rules 

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8 hours ago, Entmoot said:

To bring the conversation slightly back on track, do autochorissexual people ever have sex dreams? I don't think I ever have. For me this makes sense because almost all of my dreams (that I can remember) have me as the protagonist. But dreams don't always have to be in the first person...

Funny thing: I sometimes (okay, rarely) have sex dreams that actually involve me, but when I’m awake, my sex fantasies are mostly about (fictional) gay couples (or, very occasionally, lesbian couples), and never feature myself.

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11 hours ago, Entmoot said:

But maybe as an experiment you could try to conjure up a fantasy in which you're definitely playing an active role (or a passive role...just some kind of role in the action) and see how it feels. If it feels different from what you normally experience, I'd say that's a good indication of autochorrissexulism. 

Yeah, I've actually tried doing this in the past, and I had a lot of trouble conjuring up an image. Even when I did, it was pretty weak and didn't really add anything. Just doing it seems like a lot of effort so yeah, I guess that could be an indication.

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On 2/13/2018 at 8:49 AM, Nowhere Girl said:

I tend to explain it as "tendency to fantasize in third person"

That's almost exclusively how I masturbate, and I know other sexual people who masturbate like that as well.. For many people it's really weird including yourself in your fantasies especially when you're only able to get off to really extreme stuff (ie torture), or for example if you're a female who get's off to gay guys having sex or a male who gets off to lesbian sex. Some people even think about animals having sex when they masturbate, sorts of odd stuff. Also, often when people masturbate they don't think about things they themselves want.. I can really only picture extreme rape/torture scenarios to get off but I obviously don't want that to happen to me or to do that D: This isn't aimed at you specifically, I've just seen this term come up quite regularly and every time I hear it defined like this it's always like ... ''But that's normal'' :huh:

 

Obviously it's a bit different for an ace as they never desire sex anyway, so identifying themselves by their sexual fantasies I guess makes sense? It just seems odd that people would use a label to describe the things they think about when they masturbate haha. I would think just 'asexual' should be explanation as enough!

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everywhere and nowhere

I wouldn't even consider it that important, but I still don't know how typical or untypical it is. Since I know this term, I never agreed with defining autochorissexuality as a "type of asexuality" - it's just a peculiarity of a person's sexual imagination which may be found among aces and allosexuals as well. But, on the other hand - I also talked about it at the Polish asexuality forum and someone wrote that allosexual people she had asked were genuinely surprised that "there is such a thing" as fantasizing in third person. I still don't think that only libidoist aces may fantasize in third person and that allosexuals never do, but it seems "more typical than not" for aces.

For me it clearly makes sense - it allows me to satisfy my libido and still be intensely uncomfortable about the idea of personally trying sex.

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17 hours ago, Flump222 said:

Yeah, I've actually tried doing this in the past, and I had a lot of trouble conjuring up an image. Even when I did, it was pretty weak and didn't really add anything. Just doing it seems like a lot of effort so yeah, I guess that could be an indication.

Also, just to add on to that, when I was able to create an image I found it really hard to keep it there and kind of unnatural to do it in the first place. I could never concentrate on it enough, though if I am concentrating enough it doesn't really add anything, but it doesn't take away anything either. I think the reason that I don't do it is just that it takes way too much effort. Also, when I do do it, it's never about a specific person (though I think that's just my normal aceness talking). Just wanted to put that out (sorry if I kind of restated some of my previous stuff).  

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18 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

That's almost exclusively how I masturbate, and I know other sexual people who masturbate like that as well.. For many people it's really weird including yourself in your fantasies especially when you're only able to get off to really extreme stuff (ie torture), or for example if you're a female who get's off to gay guys having sex or a male who gets off to lesbian sex. Some people even think about animals having sex when they masturbate, sorts of odd stuff. Also, often when people masturbate they don't think about things they themselves want.. I can really only picture extreme rape/torture scenarios to get off but I obviously don't want that to happen to me or to do that D: This isn't aimed at you specifically, I've just seen this term come up quite regularly and every time I hear it defined like this it's always like ... ''But that's normal'' :huh:

 

Obviously it's a bit different for an ace as they never desire sex anyway, so identifying themselves by their sexual fantasies I guess makes sense? It just seems odd that people would use a label to describe the things they think about when they masturbate haha. I would think just 'asexual' should be explanation as enough!

Okay so, I want to thank you for sharing what sexual folk also feel, to state that it isn't just an experience aces feel. It is very much like how sexual folk can feel romantic attraction, or breathe air. We are all alike, aces and greys and sexuals.

 

But please notice how "romantic" and "breathe" and "air" are all labels for a complex concept that can be difficult and/or inefficient to capture in words without the label.  It's the same for "autochorissexual" - a word which Bogaert coined as something "disassociate" akin to a paraphernalia or kink. A lot of things are normal, and also labelled. like "human" - very normal in fact. and labelled. Normal things get labels. It isn't weird to label normal things. In fact all normal things are labelled "normal" ;) Labeling is a very normal thing. We've done it ever since our first word as an infant. Lots of companies have their own exclusive system of labels they use to identify certain key products or situations or concepts their employees need to understand to be effective at their job. 

 

Okay so with those said, I'll answer your questions as best I understand it!

 

[How does} so identifying themselves by their sexual fantasies [...] makes sense?

 

It makes sense to them because what is normally only a part of sexuality for others is conclusive for them. Their sexual experiences all fall into the category of autochorissexual, without ever experiencing "sexual attraction" - which is defined as, but not limited to, including sexual desire - aka the desire to engage in sexual acts, and/or a need that is only fully satisfied by sexual activity with others. 

 

I've just seen this term come up quite regularly

 

 Yup, it's important to some people. After all, it is an experience that invlolves some amount of sexual desire and/or attraction - so aces who experience it feel a need to reconcile these apparant contradictory things, to ask "is my assumption that I am ace still accurate" - it can be an identity crisis for some folk, especially the younger audience who haven't had the chance to learn from other people in regards to what attraction really means. They've only made assumptions based on their own experience, and are in the midst of finding out that everything they knew was wrong. or could be at least. 

 

 [why do] people [..] use a label to describe the things they think about when they masturbate haha. 

 

you mean like "sex toy" or "hand" or "clitoris" or "arousal" or "fantasy"? I think it's self-evident. Or maybe you mean like "top" or "bottom" or "gay" or "straight" - these are labels that describe the nature of their sexuality. "autochorisexual" is not at all different in intention nor use from any of those labels. 

 

 

I would think just 'asexual' should be explanation as enough!

 

It isn't because there are people who say "asexuals do not have sexual fantasies about others and don't feel attracted sexual to others" and yet here they are, feeling arousal when looking at porn, or fantasizing about sex acts. They feel like they don't belong. We both know that it's normal for aces to experience arousal in response to porn, or to enjoy smut or fantasy that is sexual. but, it ain't common knowledge - so talking about how it's normal, is actually pretty imperative, and "just asexual" isn't enough because there is enough lack of knowledge about what "just asexual" even really means. 

 

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On 2/13/2018 at 9:30 PM, Fantastic Name said:

Based on both the OP and this, you sound pretty autochori to me, but I really can't make that decision for you. If you feel like you might fit the definition and want to consider yourself autochori right now, then by all means go right ahead. You can always adjust your identity if you ever feel like it might not suit you. Labels can always be changed.

Yeah, I think I might just call myself kind of gray-autochori for now (if that makes sense). I've thought about it a bit more, and I think that I fit into this category most of the time, but there might be rare instances where it can happen. To be honest too, this is all kind of complicated for me because in my fantasies, they can't just arouse me by themselves (from my memory). I need something to go along with it.

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17 minutes ago, float on said:

you mean like "sex toy" or "hand" or "clitoris" or "arousal" or "fantasy"? I think it's self-evident. Or maybe you mean like "top" or "bottom" or "gay" or "straight" - these are labels that describe the nature of their sexuality. "autochorisexual" is not at all different in intention nor use from any of those labels. 

No I mean, if you said like ''I'm a bullfight-during-sex-sexual'' ..meaning that when I masturbate, I think about people having sex in a ring with matador having a bullfight. ...No one does that, they say they're heterosexual (or whatever) and their personal masturbation fantasies don't come into it. Then you get this one group of people who use a label that specifically describes what they think about when they masturbate (or how they think about it), and they use that in place of or alongside of 'asexual' or 'heterosexual' or whatever.  I mean, I guess if that's what you want to do.. well, that's cool. I just don't really see the reasoning behind it I guess :P It's quite common for people to think about a scenario not involving themselves during masturbation (in their mind, they're 'watching' a scenario they find sexually appealing, like watching porn, if that makes sense?) so yeah, I've just always found this label a particularly random one in an environment where there a lot of random labels everywhere haha.

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13 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

''I'm a bullfight-during-sex-sexual'

I don't understand how this is any different from "I am a seme-gender sexual" 

 

autochorissexual isn't even that specific. all it is, is to say "my sexuality is removed from my self" (note that asexuality is sexuality too - English grammar sure is confusing.)

 

oh, and anyway - there are people who experience podophilia - they have sexual reactions, and fantasies - about feet. How is that any different than autochorissexual? Or maybe Kinksters. are kinksters not allowed to identify as kinksters? 

 

why is autochorissexual "less important" than any of those? remember, you're the one who entered the thread to ask about this, we didn't go to your space and start telling you about it. Something about your criticism feels like you feel we're intruding on your mindspace.... but we aren't... we just created a thread in a forum to discuss a topic with a name. 

 

I just don't follow how any of this is weird? 

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If I may chime in, I thought for a long time that I couldn’t be ace because I was masturbating. Okay, I wasn’t in those fantasies, and a lot of things concerning sex/dating didn’t make sense to me, but whatever. But when I finally found the term autochoris, things fell into place. I understood that I was (gray-)ace. I understood (sort of) why I fantasize about gay couples. Thigs make sense. So yeah, maybe we don’t need the term autochoris, but to me, it’s important, because it tells me that my experience is valid.

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Let me tell what I experience, I'm someone who loves watching porn while I masturbate and love watching the people in the videos have sex, I just like to watch. I looked up different types of Asexuals and I feel like I'm on the spectrum. When I heard about the term autochorissexual, it clicked In my head that this might be the type of spectrum I'm on. I read that people who are like this that they can fantasize about sex, but envision people other them themselves and view it in a 3rd person view like they are watching tv, rather then imagining it in first person through their own eyes. They can fantasize about fictional characters or celebrities rather then people they know and I personally can relate to that part about the celebrities, I have only felt sexual attraction to one man and he was a tv star. Who knows I might be a grey ace that just experiences sexual attraction rarely. When I read about this it said that some can be repulsed by sex and I'm not at all repulsed but I don't seem to enjoy partnered sex.   I want to experience enjoyment from partnered sex but porn seems to be the main thing that turns me on. 

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39 minutes ago, Lovesspyro91 said:

Let me tell what I experience, I'm someone who loves watching porn while I masturbate and love watching the people in the videos have sex, I just like to watch. I looked up different types of Asexuals and I feel like I'm on the spectrum. When I heard about the term autochorissexual, it clicked In my head that this might be the type of spectrum I'm on. I read that people who are like this that they can fantasize about sex, but envision people other them themselves and view it in a 3rd person view like they are watching tv, rather then imagining it in first person through their own eyes. They can fantasize about fictional characters or celebrities rather then people they know and I personally can relate to that part about the celebrities, I have only felt sexual attraction to one man and he was a tv star. Who knows I might be a grey ace that just experiences sexual attraction rarely. When I read about this it said that some can be repulsed by sex and I'm not at all repulsed but I don't seem to enjoy partnered sex.   I want to experience enjoyment from partnered sex but porn seems to be the main thing that turns me on. 

If it really gets you off so much, do you think you could be a voyeur as opposed to Autoch? It often seems to me that people who talk about this aren't saying anything different than what the voyeurs on FetLife say.. They looooove to watch, but really have no interest in partaking.

 

voyeurism
vwʌɪˈjəːrɪz(ə)m,vɔɪˈəːrɪz(ə)m/
noun
 
  1. the practice of gaining sexual pleasure from watching others when they are naked or engaged in sexual activity.
    "Internet sites dedicated to the act of voyeurism"
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Just now, FictoVore. said:

If it really gets you off so much, do you think you could be a voyeur as opposed to Autoch? It often seems to me that people who talk about this aren't saying anything different than what the voyeurs on FetLife say.. They looooove to watch, but really have no interest in partaking.

 

voyeurism
vwʌɪˈjəːrɪz(ə)m,vɔɪˈəːrɪz(ə)m/
noun
 
  1. the practice of gaining sexual pleasure from watching others when they are naked or engaged in sexual activity.
    "Internet sites dedicated to the act of voyeurism"

To be completely honest with you I would love to be able to enjoy sex with someone but the only person I can think of that I could possibly enjoy it with would be the actor I'm sexually attracted to, but thats not going to happen so yea...but I would love to find a guy to experience an orgasm with. I'm not repulsed by sex, maybe I just need to have a deep bond with someone. I feel so strange because this frustrates me, I'd love to be able to enjoy sex like how I see people in my head with porn.  I think sex is a beautiful thing and I feel like I'm missing something.  

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On 2/17/2018 at 12:16 PM, float on said:

Remember, you're the one who entered the thread to ask about this, we didn't go to your space and start telling you about it. Something about your criticism feels like you feel we're intruding on your mindspace.... but we aren't... we just created a thread in a forum to discuss a topic with a name. 

I think you mistook 'The Grey Area, Sex, and Related Discussions' for a Safe Space :P Anyone can pipe in on these threads, and I was merely expressing the fact that what is being described here isn't entirely out of the ordinary when talking specifically about masturbating in third person. 

 

3 minutes ago, Lovesspyro91 said:

To be completely honest with you I would love to be able to enjoy sex with someone but the only person I can think of that I could possibly enjoy it with would be the actor I'm sexually attracted to, but thats not going to happen so yea...but I would love to find a guy to experience an orgasm with. I'm not repulsed by sex, maybe I just need to have a deep bond with someone. I feel so strange because this frustrates me, I'd love to be able to enjoy sex like how I see people in my head with porn.  I think sex is a beautiful thing and I feel like I'm missing something.  

 

Many of the voyeurs I met on FetLife  (and in the brothel where I used to work) really didn't have any interest in actually engaging in sex themselves, they got the most pleasure just from watching. For example, at the brothel a man would pay to watch two girls or a girl and a guy have sex with each other without actually taking his own clothes off - you have to pay a CRAPLOAD for that (more than just hiring one girl to have sex with) and the guys who would pay to watch almost never had any interest in actually joining in themselves. That sounded a lot like what you were describing initially (word for word) but now you seem to be saying that you would totally love to have sex with the actor you like, or at least with someone who could give you the pleasure you desire. I've liked actors in the past and felt like I could never like any other guy as much, but then the right guy has come along (when I was almost 29 years old!) and I was able to develop those feelings for him. It sounds to me like you'd be very open to sexual activity with the right person, so I personally don't think the autoch label is a good fit for you regardless. Obviously it's your choice to use it or not but you really do sound to me like someone who needs to (and actively wants to!) meet the right person to enjoy the sexual intimacy that you desire with. There's totally nothing wrong with that of course, and yes you can call yourself anything you like, I just wonder if voyeur (at the very least) might not be a better label for you? :o 

 

Also, I see you were born in 91? Like I said, I was almost 29 before I found that person who could give me sex in the way I desire (though I didn't realize I wanted it until AFTER I met him) and another lady here didn't find that person who made her want and enjoy sexual intimacy until her 30s, so it could still totally happen for you. Sounds like you need someone who you can love and trust and who can give you pleasure in the exact way you want it! Imagine if you met an amazing guy who got off on watching porn as much as you do, so you could watch it together and get really aroused, then do the things you just saw in the porn to each others bodies.. or you could both talk for hours about the fantasies you're having in your heads while you get super aroused, then can act them out with each other? That would be really fun with someone who you can love, trust, respect, and who you desire sexually :)

 

Again though of course, you're free to label yourself literally anything you desire, whatever feels best for you :cake:

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6 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

I think you mistook 'The Grey Area, Sex, and Related Discussions' for a Safe Space :P Anyone can pipe in on these threads, and I was merely expressing the fact that what is being described here isn't entirely out of the ordinary when talking specifically about masturbating in third person. 

 

 

Many of the voyeurs I met on FetLife  (and in the brothel where I used to work) really didn't have any interest in actually engaging in sex themselves, they got the most pleasure just from watching. For example, at the brothel a man would pay to watch two girls or a girl and a guy have sex with each other without actually taking his own clothes off - you have to pay a CRAPLOAD for that (more than just hiring one girl to have sex with) and the guys who would pay to watch almost never had any interest in actually joining in themselves. That sounded a lot like what you were describing initially (word for word) but now you seem to be saying that you would totally love to have sex with the actor you like, or at least with someone who could give you the pleasure you desire. I've liked actors in the past and felt like I could never like any other guy as much, but then the right guy has come along (when I was almost 29 years old!) and I was able to develop those feelings for him. It sounds to me like you'd be very open to sexual activity with the right person, so I personally don't think the autoch label is a good fit for you regardless. Obviously it's your choice to use it or not but you really do sound to me like someone who needs to (and actively wants to!) meet the right person to enjoy the sexual intimacy that you desire with. There's totally nothing wrong with that of course, and yes you can call yourself anything you like, I just wonder if voyeur (at the very least) might not be a better label for you? :o 

 

Also, I see you were born in 91? Like I said, I was almost 29 before I found that person who could give me sex in the way I desire (though I didn't realize I wanted it until AFTER I met him) and another lady here didn't find that person who made her want and enjoy sexual intimacy until her 30s, so it could still totally happen for you. Sounds like you need someone who you can love and trust and who can give you pleasure in the exact way you want it! Imagine if you met an amazing guy who got off on watching porn as much as you do, so you could watch it together and get really aroused, then do the things you just saw in the porn to each others bodies.. or you could both talk for hours about the fantasies you're having in your heads while you get super aroused, then can act them out with each other? That would be really fun with someone who you can love, trust, respect, and who you desire sexually :)

 

Again though of course, you're free to label yourself literally anything you desire, whatever feels best for you :cake:

When I was a teen I had a huge crush on this same actor and in high school is when I really got into sexual fantasies about him. So you'd never tell that I could or possibly could be on the ace spectrum at the time lol.

 

 

I had pictures of him up on my wall like the teen girls do and it wasn't until I started having sex with guys like experimenting and stuff that I felt different. I was not enjoying sex the way my friend was and I didn't say anything about it. I knew I wasn't into women sexually. I have a medium sex drive (sorry for the TMI) and look forward to masturbating because of the orgasms. But one thing is for sure that all the guys I've had sex with I was not sexually attracted to them and I knew this and that was what made me not tell my friend, I just hoped that ok this time I will enjoy it but never did. I had a very memorable guy that preformed oral sex on me (again sorry for the TMI) and he was really enjoying himself and I liked the attention but it wasn't pleasurable so it was disappointing to me, it wasn't him, it was me. I'm new to this site and would like to talk to other people. At least on here I don't feel so alone. If you want to view my very first post explaining myself you can, my post is called I wanted to share something with you. I don't mean talk about my experience to much, I'm new here and just wanted to communicate because It does bother me that I struggling with my identity. Thanks for talking to me. (:

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And yes me watching porn with a guy that could make me cum and make him cum to while or after watching porn would be hot.

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11 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

I think you mistook 'The Grey Area, Sex, and Related Discussions' for a Safe Space :P

:lol: I loathe safe spaces. They are my bane. I simply meant, that I did not like the implications you had. As in, I disagree with them, as in, I want to voice my thoughts in opposition to them. Sorry if my words did not convey that meaning accurately xD 

 

Generally, there is a lot of people across AVEN who think that there are too many labels, and reach to a point where they imply such people are incorrect or undesirable or wrong or silly, and I've noticed that has caused some tension in the community. I think I remember aluding to that some in my response. I simply wish to remind people that "you do you, they do them" is sometimes the answer. Aces/aros feel like we shouldn't have to justify that we don't want to have sex or date, that's true of other groups of people too. Whether or not you group people into orientation labels or not is irrelevant - some people like being extra precise, others like simplicity. 

 

Regarding the topic at hand, the point I wanted to communicate was that - while sure autochoris is something everyone - ace, sexual, grey - experience, for some people it is the exclusive extent of their sexual experience. Or some people who autochoris aspect is present in the majority of their sexual energies, whether self-satisfied or not. such people are the ones who would be attracted to ID as autochorissexual. 

 

And IDK if at the time of that post I was thinking it but - now I also say, that I think it's important to recognize that "grey" territory has two purposes - and as its own identity a third. First, it is to allow for an umbrella space to exist where people who aren't quite either way can exist. Second is a way to say, "this experience - well it's grey. sometimes a sexual experiences, sometimes an ace, sometimes someone in between" - aka autochoris. Some aces have autochoris fantasy, some allos do, some greys do too. And I think you were trying to point that out, but it sounded like you were implying identifying by such a thing is dumb. (And the third use is as its own identity - which is defined as "someone who feels partial or weak attraction, or who feels attraction sparsely or rarely") 

 

 

I am sorry that I gave the impression I was worried about safe space. if I remember correctly I felt kinda bad for taking that angle but did anyway... I didn't know the better angle to take so I just took the one that sorta fit. The better fit is - "are you saying we are sexual if we're autochorissexual? 'cause ____" and then say what I said here. I was probably in a sensitive mood then... so I wasn't in the right mind frame. 

 

 

 

 

The only thing regarding "Safe space" that I honestly am bothered about on this site is - if I think of a support group like AA as a safe space for comparison. Online, it ain't easy to set that up. Even if you make a section only visible to members - any of the members can come in and rouse rabble. This wouldn't really happen in an AA group - while it ain't banned, if it does happen, the person has to physically come in, and be willing to stand up and face everyone and be in disagreement. But here on forums - there is not this natural barrier that minimizes how often it happens. And so it is too easy for every time a person tries to have an "AA" type of discussion, that you got it facing opposition. I don't think "AA" type discussions would succeed if every meeting had someone coming in disrupting the flow of the support. So this is the only thing about "safe space" I care about - but IDK how to address it and, IDRC in the end.. sometimes I do but... I got other things I need to worry about first. I care about it because I see the community in  turmoil over it. 

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Personally, I feel in anticipation of maybe needing to, of opening up my dating pool options, that with the right person I could have sex. But I don't anticipate it being a fulfilling experience for me except as a sense of sharing what's important for them. And I anticipate it would require that I both toughen up against my "not this" response, which isn't intrinsically pain or hurt just... boredom I guess... idk... but I'd also need to know when to set a boundary, "I'm not willing right now". 

 

It is possible that I could find sexual desire in my life too, and not just the sexual attraction I feel. Or that the sexual attraction I feel is inclusive of sexual activity even tho it lacks desire. if either of those did happen, I would gladly and readily reinvestigate my orientation - but until that happens, it's IMO the right move to just trust what I am now and ID based on that. And that is someone with some sexual attraction but no desire, who wishes to not have sex. I enjoy autochoris fantasy on occasion. So I ID as greysexual. There's more nuance to it than that simple statement of it... but w/e . AMA if you're curious lol. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/15/2018 at 7:09 AM, Entmoot said:

@float on and @Fantastic Name, have you seen this thread here on aphantasia? It seems highly relevant! I can't personally relate to lacking visual imagination (although I'm not sure my mental visuals are particularly vivid), but it looks like a lot of others here can.

 

But that's fascinating that you apparently do dream visually, @float on. To bring the conversation slightly back on track, do autochorissexual people ever have sex dreams? I don't think I ever have. For me this makes sense because almost all of my dreams (that I can remember) have me as the protagonist. But dreams don't always have to be in the first person...

Closest thing I've had to a sex dream is knowing an aquaintance in real life who I find very attractive and then having an adventure dream where we are put together and risk our lives to save each other constantly and then I wake up feeling really close to them and then realize it was all a lie. No sex involved though.

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  • 1 month later...
megtheleg22

hey there. I identify as autochorissexual (I think???) and I have a similar story as you. Actually, nearly identical to yours. So yes, I would say that is normal for an autochorissexual person.

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  • 2 weeks later...
J. van Deijck

I guess I am actually autochorissexual since I like to fantasise about sexual things that never involve me in person, but I don't like to touch myself at all. it kind of scares me, tbh.

I do not have erotic dreams either :D during my whole life I had maybe three and I've never been taking part in things I was dreaming about.

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