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Wanting to "lash out"


Gleep

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At another hurt and angry phase and feeling incredibly guilty for it but I'm wanting to hurt him.

 

That's not right. That's not fair.

 

We've talked. Good god have we talked. We've talked for weeks. We've fought and reasoned and explained. I finally thought I managed to get myself across to him. That I needed that intimacy from him. To feel like more than just his gaming buddy and maid. He swears I'm more than that, that I'm not a burden, I am special. But I finally blurted out if I really was, then it wouldn't feel like I was pulling teeth to get him to act like it and show it.

 

Part of me wants to hurt him. Badly. I want to reject him. I want to make him feel the same rejection I do every goddamn day. Today was the first day I haven't said "Good morning my most wonderful love" to him in the 12 years we've been together.

 

Had a very dear friend spend the night with us. He was up from across the state and needed a place to sleep just for the night before a business meeting in the morning. So we took him out to dinner, had a great evening just talking. And J was just sitting there being silent and glaring the entire time. Got back to the house and he immediately turns his chair away from the conversation and goes and plays a video game all night.

He was rude and acted like a petulant, jealous child all night.

He embarrassed me.

I'm 40 years old! He's 45! Our friend is happily married and monogamous. I wouldn't dream and anyway, NO. But jealousy???

Had this out in a lovely fight too. I'm wrong, he's right, and it doesn't matter anyway because the friend isn't the type to be offended.

 

I haven't been touched since September. And that was attempting to make up for the thing in June where he was timing it and asked "Are you done yet? Can I stop?" And you're jealous of me talking to a FRIEND.

 

I'm wanting to hurt him and it's not right.

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Its understandable that you're feeling hurt and angry and rejected. I think we all do at times. And acting like a child because you were trying on well with an old friend is just unacceptable.

 

Do you think this is about his guilt and frustration at knowing that for whatever reason, he can't meet your needs? Or is there something else going on, do you think?

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He doesn't feel any guilt about it. If I have a problem then it's my problem but he isn't going to change and doesn't feel there's any good reason why he should.

 

At the moment, he's denying even feeling possessive or jealous. 

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His wife feeling hurt and miserable and angry isn't a good reason to at least try to change a bit? That doesn't sound good...

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He didn't even apologize ??? At least some men pretend to be sorry....

 

I'm so sorry you have to go through something like this *hugs* 

You can always vent to us at aven and we'll always support you !!!! 

 

Is he jealous of only this particular friend or all men in general ? If its the latter then it is a symptom of a much bigger issue within him that needs addressing.

If its just this friend maybe talking might work. 

 

1 hour ago, Gleep said:

 

I'm wanting to hurt him and it's not right.

Not physically right ? Please don't do something u'll regret over a stupid fight!!! Calm down.......get away from your husband,get urself some me time,do something u love !!! I have a feeling both of you might be able to communicate better when you give yourself some cooling off time !! 

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I identify with everything you’ve said.  It’s been awhile since feeling that blistering anger, but what helped me to “let it go” in time was realizing that nothing I did or said changed the outcome.  Period.  You either have to come to complete acceptance (if all else fails) or find life solutions that make sense for you. Work together, communicate and ensure you’re heard and that your feelings matter.

 

(I’m assuming you mean deliver an emotional hurt...)

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1 minute ago, lazypanda said:

He didn't even apologize ??? At least some men pretend to be sorry....

 

I'm so sorry you have to go through something like this *hugs* 

You can always vent to us at aven and we'll always support you !!!! 

 

Is he jealous of only this particular friend or all men in general ? If its the latter then it is a symptom of a much bigger issue within him that needs addressing.

If its just this friend maybe talking might work. 

 

Not physically right ? Please don't do something u'll regret over a stupid fight!!! Calm down.......get away from your husband,get urself some me time,do something u love !!! I have a feeling both of you might be able to communicate better when you give yourself some cooling off time !! 

 

Not physically. Just my temper is getting the better of me and making my tongue extra sharp. Anyway I'm 5'0" and he's 6'4"... what am I gonna do, gnaw his kneecaps off?

 

Grawr! Fear me! For I am fluffy and shall piss in your shoes.

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If you are being constantly rejected for sex, then I know exactly how you feel.    Its miserable. It makes you angry and resentful. You feel you are a good person doing your part for the marriage- why doesn't he.  Same here (genders reversed)

 

All I can say is that he is simply not able to be what you want him to be. He is unable to feel desire for you or anyone. 

 

You have to act based on the world the way it is, not the way it *should* be.  Its not in any way your fault. Its not really his fault for not being able to experience desire the way most people do. 

 

My usual line:  You can leave, cheat, or live like a nun.     All those choices suck, but those are the ones you have available to you. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Gleep said:

what am I gonna do, gnaw his kneecaps off?

Lol..u never know....u could throw pots and pans at him....or use his toothbrush to clean the toilet !!!!😛😛😛

Angry wives are the scariest thing in the world....so my dad says !!! 😜

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1 hour ago, lazypanda said:

Lol..u never know....u could throw pots and pans at him....or use his toothbrush to clean the toilet !!!!😛😛😛

Angry wives are the scariest thing in the world....so my dad says !!! 😜

Snakes have their rattlers.

Skunks have their stripe.

 

5'0" Texan redhead. I don't think there needs to be many more warnings. :lol:

 

1 hour ago, uhtred said:

If you are being constantly rejected for sex, then I know exactly how you feel.    Its miserable. It makes you angry and resentful. You feel you are a good person doing your part for the marriage- why doesn't he.  Same here (genders reversed)

 

All I can say is that he is simply not able to be what you want him to be. He is unable to feel desire for you or anyone. 

 

You have to act based on the world the way it is, not the way it *should* be.  Its not in any way your fault. Its not really his fault for not being able to experience desire the way most people do. 

 

My usual line:  You can leave, cheat, or live like a nun.     All those choices suck, but those are the ones you have available to you. 

 

 

I'm not going to be mean. I'm not going to be mean. I'm not going to... oh the hell with it, he'll never see it anyway.

 

You know, when relationships are new, he's all interested in getting in the middle of it. New girlfriend? Oh hell yeah.  Ex husband was like that too.

 

Which turns it around and makes me wonder is it me and reminds me of what my ex husband used to say to me years ago. "You're not just sexy, you're the anti-sexy." While J now will say "Oh it's not just you, it's everybody" Yeah, except when they're new.

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Serious (not rhetorical) question:  Why are you still with him?  

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In every other way, he completes me.

 

I have a bajillion hobbies. Master naturalist, ethnobotanist, weird and interesting food from around the world, etc. And few people even begin to keep up with me. That's not tooting my own horn either. One weekend I'll be digging around the Vietnamese and Filipino markets and eating balut and trying interesting food, the next I'm across the state teaching how my great grandparents used common weeds to survive and treat mosquito bites, or another week I'll be giving a talk about history on the Trail of Tears and handed down accounts of experiences not only on the trail, but after they arrived in Oklahoma.

 

He's right there with me. Doesn't balk. He's camping with me in hammocks 10 miles into a hike or out with me while I'm fishing in some backwater bay. That means more than you can possibly imagine. I can geek out about Dr Who or completely squirrel about this plant I saw on the side of the road and now MUST cook it for dinner.

5 minutes ago, Sally said:

Serious (not rhetorical) question:  Why are you still with him?  

 

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4 hours ago, Gleep said:

At another hurt and angry phase and feeling incredibly guilty for it but I'm wanting to hurt him.

 

That's not right. That's not fair.

 

We've talked. Good god have we talked. We've talked for weeks. We've fought and reasoned and explained. I finally thought I managed to get myself across to him. That I needed that intimacy from him. To feel like more than just his gaming buddy and maid. He swears I'm more than that, that I'm not a burden, I am special. But I finally blurted out if I really was, then it wouldn't feel like I was pulling teeth to get him to act like it and show it.

 

Part of me wants to hurt him. Badly. I want to reject him. I want to make him feel the same rejection I do every goddamn day. Today was the first day I haven't said "Good morning my most wonderful love" to him in the 12 years we've been together.

 

Had a very dear friend spend the night with us. He was up from across the state and needed a place to sleep just for the night before a business meeting in the morning. So we took him out to dinner, had a great evening just talking. And J was just sitting there being silent and glaring the entire time. Got back to the house and he immediately turns his chair away from the conversation and goes and plays a video game all night.

He was rude and acted like a petulant, jealous child all night.

He embarrassed me.

I'm 40 years old! He's 45! Our friend is happily married and monogamous. I wouldn't dream and anyway, NO. But jealousy???

Had this out in a lovely fight too. I'm wrong, he's right, and it doesn't matter anyway because the friend isn't the type to be offended.

 

I haven't been touched since September. And that was attempting to make up for the thing in June where he was timing it and asked "Are you done yet? Can I stop?" And you're jealous of me talking to a FRIEND.

 

I'm wanting to hurt him and it's not right.

Has he....

 

1) identified as asexual to you?

2) stated what type of asexual he is?

3) did this disclosure happen before or after marriage?

4) given or implied any permission for you to seek intimacy outside the marriage?

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2 minutes ago, James121 said:

Has he....

 

1) identified as asexual to you?

2) stated what type of asexual he is?

3) did this disclosure happen before or after marriage?

4) given or implied any permission for you to seek intimacy outside the marriage?

 

1) Yes. We found out what it was about 3 years ago.

2) I don't think he knows.

3) 10 years after we were married.

4) We have been openly poly since the very start. I ran into him on a couple poly boards we both frequented.

 

As I put on my little identifier profile thingy. I'm bi, poly, demi (need to really get to know somebody before I can entertain the notion) and sapio (need to not just know the person, but for them to be intelligent.) We are a triad at the moment, and I have my lady. That's great, but IT'S NOT HIM. I need the intimacy from him. I need to know that he still wants and treasures me. I can't transfer desire from one person to another, it doesn't work that way. Val and J don't do anything at all. She doesn't connect with him that way and he's not really interested in her. This isn't a jealousy issue. It's a "I miss intimacy with my husband" and he's absolutely refusing flat out to give it.

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39 minutes ago, Gleep said:

In every other way, he completes me.

 

I have a bajillion hobbies. Master naturalist, ethnobotanist, weird and interesting food from around the world, etc. And few people even begin to keep up with me. That's not tooting my own horn either. One weekend I'll be digging around the Vietnamese and Filipino markets and eating balut and trying interesting food, the next I'm across the state teaching how my great grandparents used common weeds to survive and treat mosquito bites, or another week I'll be giving a talk about history on the Trail of Tears and handed down accounts of experiences not only on the trail, but after they arrived in Oklahoma.

 

He's right there with me. Doesn't balk. He's camping with me in hammocks 10 miles into a hike or out with me while I'm fishing in some backwater bay. That means more than you can possibly imagine. I can geek out about Dr Who or completely squirrel about this plant I saw on the side of the road and now MUST cook it for dinner.

 

Very good reasons to stay in the relationship.  But could the relationship be somehow detached from the expectation of sex?   Have you talked with him about you possibly finding sexual outlet with someone outside the relationship?

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You strike me as someone who has absolutely no concerns with standing up for herself and telling it how she sees it (I love all those qualities!) Is there a chance your husband goes on the defensive about conversations related to sex before you even have a few words out of your mouth? If it's a habitual response, he may not even realize he's doing it - and unfortunately for you both, once the walls go up he may not hear you asking to take them down. 

 

Is leaving him a letter a tactic you've tried, yet? That way he can read it and ruminate and digest it in his own space and on his own time - hopefully with his walls down. 

 

How about involving a counselor or a therapist? 

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8 hours ago, Chimeric said:

You strike me as someone who has absolutely no concerns with standing up for herself and telling it how she sees it (I love all those qualities!) Is there a chance your husband goes on the defensive about conversations related to sex before you even have a few words out of your mouth? If it's a habitual response, he may not even realize he's doing it - and unfortunately for you both, once the walls go up he may not hear you asking to take them down. 

 

Is leaving him a letter a tactic you've tried, yet? That way he can read it and ruminate and digest it in his own space and on his own time - hopefully with his walls down. 

 

How about involving a counselor or a therapist? 

You're more right than you realize. Had it out a little bit last night but I still remained mostly civil. I'm able to express myself better through writing as it allows me time to cool off and edit out the off the cuff snide and sharp remarks that kill a conversation. Did it a couple years ago and things were fine for a while but it's been a long time.

 

As long as there's not intimacy or sex involved, we get along like a house on fire. And then I'll get to wanting, he'll start retreating, I'll get hurt and start retreating more, and it snowballs into this huge thing. My self esteem just goes straight to the toilet and stays there.... where I am right now... and I get hurt and angry and instead of shredding him to ribbons, I tear myself down. Anti-sexy, useless, worthless, stupid, fat cow, etc. Then he gets mad and frustrated with me for being depressed for no reason.

This is who he is. I can't be angry with him for being true to himself.

 

Thought about mentioning it last night. That'd be world war 3... but maybe it's getting to that point where we should.

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@Gleep Would he be willing to join AVEN so he can get a sense from the other sex-inclined partners on the site of how important that connection is? Not that he shouldn't be taking his wife seriously - he absolutely should be - but maybe hearing the same message from other people will open his ears a bit more. And he could see what you've told us, which may help.

 

Would you be willing to have him here? 

 

This is a hard thing for you both. Sometimes we get to a point where we've invested so much into the argument that it seems impossible to overcome without investing more, but it sounds like you both would benefit from trying a different strategy. 

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5 minutes ago, Chimeric said:

@Gleep Would he be willing to join AVEN so he can get a sense from the other sex-inclined partners on the site of how important that connection is? Not that he shouldn't be taking his wife seriously - he absolutely should be - but maybe hearing the same message from other people will open his ears a bit more. And he could see what you've told us, which may help.

 

Would you be willing to have him here? 

 

This is a hard thing for you both. Sometimes we get to a point where we've invested so much into the argument that it seems impossible to overcome without investing more, but it sounds like you both would benefit from trying a different strategy. 

Do you have any idea how betrayed he'd feel that I aired this elsewhere? "You talked to STRANGERS about how I'm inadequate?" "Well, yes. Because I can't talk to friends, I can't talk to you, and I need to be able to let it out somewhere." I don't want to attack him over this. I don't want to reject him, make him feel useless or inadequate. But I don't deserve it either.

 

I think it would make things much much worse. Because then he'd feel betrayed.

 

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At some level, at some point, he's going to have to get over himself. The alternative is that you continue to suffer.

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25 minutes ago, Gleep said:

I think it would make things much much worse. Because then he'd feel betrayed.

 

Okay, that's out, then. 

 

You mention the two of you have known that he's asexual, but it's clear he will occasionally do things in an effort to give you what you need, but recently that hasn't been working out, and now you - the woman  he completes - are hurting and upset. He shouldn't refuse to speak to you outright, but I would hazard that he is hurting and feeling guilty as well. Surely the idea of being unable to provide something you so vocally need is a huge blow to him, and I wonder if he reacts callously as a means of defending himself.

I wonder if the instance in July - as damaging a comment as that is - came from a place of desperation. Maybe he no longer finds sex enjoyable at all, and he's perhaps afraid to broach the subject with you. Is that a possibility?

It sounds like the childish and petulant behavior is out of character for him (... Thank goodness). Is it possible that was also a fear response? He knows he can't fulfill your needs, he knows he hurt you badly the last time he tried, and those anxieties are outweighing the rational side of him that's telling him you wouldn't pursue another man? You guys have been together for a while and so I'm sure he knows your temper, maybe the anxiety in him convinced him you'd do something just to hurt him or make a point? Fear and anxieties do a good job twisting our minds. I'm not saying his behavior is acceptable, but it's worth sussing out his rationale. 

 

If he isn't going to be the one to listen to "your side"  first, I'm afraid it falls on you to shoulder that burden. There's a lot of communicating that needs to happen on both sides, before this really spirals out of control and one of you truly does lasting damage to the relationship. 

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8 minutes ago, Chimeric said:

If he isn't going to be the one to listen to "your side"  first, I'm afraid it falls on you to shoulder that burden. There's a lot of communicating that needs to happen on both sides, before this really spirals out of control and one of you truly does lasting damage to the relationship. 

This is true, but I'm also getting the impression he doesn't want to talk about it at all (quite possibly for all the reasons you've just listed). I'm sure @Gleep has approached the subject kindly and sensitively at times as well as angrily, but it may be that the guilt and knowledge that talking isn't going to change anything just makes him withdraw. There's no 'win' for him from talking: he either disappoints Gleep, or has sex, neither of which he wants.

 

What he does want - apparently - is to continue to be in a relationship with her, so the only way to leverage that is to make counselling a dealbreaker, however unappetising that sounds. That way, he has an incentive. Refusing to speak outright isn't reasonable behaviour, regardless of whether it's about sex or any other issue.

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He doesn't want to fight is the issue. And neither do I. We'll talk. We'll have real heart to heart discussions, and I'll think "Okay, we're getting somewhere" ..... and then nada.

 

I think you're exactly right Chimeric, that he is feeling threatened because he knows I don't normally really hit it off on that many topics with anybody and he was feeling his place as my copilot and navigator as less than secure. There were some topics he's not interested or well versed in, and he just started fading into the background, which made him mad, that made him feel mad at himself so it came across as petulant, and jealous because he's usually the one that I'm going bouncy with and he wasn't in the circle of conversation, but had removed himself.

 

I know if there's anything to be started, I'm going to be the one to start it. But there's ALWAYS some excuse. He'll get involved in some game or he's tired, or gassy or his allergies are bothering him or there's something going on. And I'm not going to push. If I get the hint that you don't want to, well, it's just no fun if both parties aren't into it. I'll always let him find an excuse. And that's where I start getting hurt, because I turn his repeated excuses into something personal. After 5 months, it's "Okay, I get the hint." 

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22 minutes ago, Gleep said:

because I turn his repeated excuses into something personal.

Completely natural response, made all the more personal by your experiences with your ex (I gather). It's crucial to remember that it isn't you he doesn't want or love or need, it's the sex. Making that distinction is nigh on impossible sometimes, and it doesn't lessen the frustration for someone who does need sex as a means of communicating intimacy, but it's the truth and it's worth remembering.

 

Gleep, what does "getting somewhere" mean to you? Honest question. What would your goals for this relationship be? What if he is unwilling to have sex from here on out? 

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1 minute ago, Chimeric said:

Completely natural response, made all the more personal by your experiences with your ex (I gather). It's crucial to remember that it isn't you he doesn't want or love or need, it's the sex. Making that distinction is nigh on impossible sometimes, and it doesn't lessen the frustration for someone who does need sex as a means of communicating intimacy, but it's the truth and it's worth remembering.

 

Gleep, what does "getting somewhere" mean to you? Honest question. What would your goals for this relationship be? What if he is unwilling to have sex from here on out? 

 

In the context that I was using it, "Getting somewhere" was meant as I was getting him to understand my point of view and that we were able to at least compromise.

 

I honestly believe the relationship would fail eventually over time. I'm not passionate, but I do need that intimacy. I need that endorphin rush with him. I need to not have a wall between us. It is the only way I ever actually stop all the other shit I'm doing and thinking and just feel small and squishy and feminine and loved.... and even then, I can't remember the last time he did that, but it's been at least well over a year. Not asking for passionate, just a desire to take his time and enjoy what he can do to me. I know he's not interested in anything that I can do for him, but at least enjoy my enjoyment of him.

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3 hours ago, Gleep said:

He doesn't want to fight is the issue. And neither do I. We'll talk. We'll have real heart to heart discussions, and I'll think "Okay, we're getting somewhere" ..... and then nada.

That's why I suspect it'll take making it a dealbreaker will make things real enough that he'll act, even if that action is engaging his brain enough to take what you're saying seriously and then maybe compromise. Having a third party validating that it's not just you being unreasonable and being able to press him without getting emotional will probably help too.

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13 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

That's why I suspect it'll take making it a dealbreaker will make things real enough that he'll act, even if that action is engaging his brain enough to take what you're saying seriously and then maybe compromise. Having a third party validating that it's not just you being unreasonable and being able to press him without getting emotional will probably help too.

I know you're right. You're absolutely right. But.

 

Even I'm balking at the idea. Horrible scenes going through my mind of "Well, you're a poly wife, he needs to get a real wife, you have to choose." or "You're just being a spoiled demanding brat" or it finally coming out it is just me. yadda yadda yadda. Or "Wives need  to submit to their husband in every way." yeah... um... kma no. We're equals, partners. Both carrying the load. .... and sex shouldn't be a "load that needs carried" it should be a celebration of enjoying each other.

 

You're right. Now I just have to talk myself into it before I can begin to put my foot down.

And forgive me for the edit but goddamnit I shouldn't have to. It isn't right for me to DEMAND something that he doesn't want to do. That's not right, that's not fair. If he's not interested in any other activity, then I can either go and do it on my own, or give it up. And the fact that I'm all tangled up in sex and love and desire and attraction and intimacy and all of these vague indistinct words that have no absolute set meaning. I've so been trying to kill desire in myself because it isn't wanted. I finally managed to get over the scent of his skin... although him sitting next to me and idly kneading a buttcheek while I'm studying is.. just....

 

 

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Honestly I don't think any counsellor will go anywhere near those kind of points, and no sex shouldn't be a demand, but neither should engaging with something you're doing that's really affecting your spouse badly.

 

And if he's touching you like that and then withdrawing... that's just rubbing salt into the wound (maybe not the best metaphor!). Maybe he thinks it's some kind of substitute, and the best he can do, even though from your point of view it's just making things worse.

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On 2/6/2018 at 8:55 PM, Gleep said:

I'm wanting to hurt him and it's not right.

I'm not so sure about the second part ;-) Not physically, of course. But maybe you could spend some more time just talking to dear friends, until he admits there's something that needs to change.

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