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Job Hunting as a Grown Up


thylacine

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This might not be an asexual topic, but it's an older topic...  I'm 53 but I look 30 or so (if I dye my hair!) because I don't have a husband & kids to "cause me to age"...  my career has hit a brick wall.  I have a good education & had a good paralegal job at a medium sized law firm, then the lawyer I worked for started her own firm and lured me into going with her...  turned out mental illness ran in her family.  She had a breakdown (or acted like she was really losing it!) and was bringing guns into the office (she had a license to carry) and leaving garbage everywhere all around and freaking out and ranting and raving like a lunatic...  myself & the other paralegal found jobs and left at the same time just to escape basically...

 

I took the 1st job that was offered...  I figured I'd give it a year and find something else if I didn't like it.  That was 2 years ago.  Well, this job is dead end.  If I stay I'll never go anywhere in life and I have at least 20 more working years ahead...  plus the benefits suck.  I want a real job!  This lawyer treats me like I'm a dumb broad and talks down to me like I'm in kindergarten...  I've been looking... and looking... and looking...  is it the economy or do they just want to hire kids out of college?  They hire younger people who just play with their cell phones all day and who cannot type, write properly, or spell their own names.  Kids have no experience and no work ethic and just make drama in the office all day.  They play video games on the computers and answer the phones sounding spaced out and bored.  They smoke dope in the bathroom and come back to the office high (I know because I have worked with this age group).  I - and others in my age group - would give 110% to working at a job, but nobody wants us!  WHY ??? !!!  It's just not right.  Why can't these companies give a grown up like myself a chance?  I can still learn new skills, I can do a better job than these lazy no good kids!

 

There needs to be affirmative action for adults !!!  And I don't mean for jobs flipping burgers !!!  Let the kids flip burgers, I want to do meaningful freakin' work !!!

 

(I'm connecting with dial up so I can't put a video or recording here... so therefore, you cannot hear me scream !!! )

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I understand that you're venting and not to hate on you but as someone in her late 20s who is also a legal assistant and who has struggled pretty damn hard to get the job I have (which sounds a lot like yours!) I think you've completely misunderstood the situation. I think the reason you aren't finding any "good" jobs is because they don't really exist at this level any more.

 

Older people like you expect to be paid a decent amount of money and have benefits to reflect your experience and work ethic, which is fair, but us kids are the only ones being hired right now because we don't have any experience to leverage or negotiate with, and we also have no expectation that a job will provide proper benefits or pay - we know those don't exist for us. We're overworked and underpaid but we're just happy to have a paycheck at the end of the month (even if that paycheck can barely pay our rent and bills). This is normal for us and makes us much cheaper than you to hire and deal with.

 

The majority of employers right now are people of your generation who see us universally as 'kids with no experience, who play on their phones all day' - and pay us according to that idea no matter what work we do - whether it's good or bad. We're also expendable - if they're unhappy with our work, they can just drop us and there's another eager young intern hoping to get a glimpse into the industry who will work for minimum wage.

 

I'm sorry that you've seen some idiots who are using work time to do things like drugs and play video games, but please imagine the frustration you're feeling right now in your job and apply it to our entire lives - to the point that we think it is normal and expected for the next 50 years (which is, ironically, your entire lifetime right now). Our employers don't pay us enough to feel like we're doing anything meaningful - therefore, no meaningful work exists at our level. Like I said, we're all working in the same sort of shit jobs you have now and a lot of us actually consider ourselves lucky - after all, I could, as you say, be flipping burgers.

 

I happen to have a law degree - I'm earning just a little above minimum wage in a legal department and my rent takes up more than 60% of my total take-home salary - but I have it easy because at least I have regular work hours and a cozy office. Some of my friends who went to the top universities in the country are actually still working in retail because they haven't been given the opportunity to do anything else.

 

(fair enough that they studied things like history or classics - but being able to get a top grade from the equivalent of an Ivy League does say something about their intellectual capabilities and work ethic, surely) 

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Gaogao...  you have a law degree & you are making just above minimum... ?  & your friends are working in retail... ?  I thought America was great again?  (Sorry!)  I guess it's the economy, it's not as wonderful as we are supposed to think it is.  Jade...  that is right, a lot of people work hard for miserable pay, myself included...  But I don't want "big bucks," just a better job, and I don't think it's too much to ask.

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It seems to me the industrial revolution idea of you get an education and then get a good job is gone.  Yeah, companies are out for their investors and if someone will do the work for less, most companies will take it.  My grandfather worked at basically the same job until he was 65, and then retired with a pension.  That just doesn't happen anymore.

 

So often anymore it seems like the people that that "succeed" make their own way outside of existing major corporations.  You might check out the podcast ChooseFI for some more ideas.  

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(not an American)

 

I've had several careers (some were just jobs) changes over the years

 

The field I worked in (and trained in) turned from being a well paid job into a minimum wage job as times/technology changed (computer tech in the late 90's)

After that I moved into sales due to needing money, this paid reasonably well and turned into a career for the next few years.

 

I had the opportunity to get back into a decent paid job in the computer industry, but unfortunately due to a back problem that stopped me wiring network cables and crawling around desks etc all day I had to stop.

 

I went back into sales for a few years, then decided I'd had enough of these jobs, I've now gone to university took out loads of loans and though I may as well do something i enjoy, so I'm studying a degree in Photography Video and digital media.

 

I may have a job which I enjoy at the end of the degree, I may not, but I hope whatever I do at the end of the course will be more meaningful than anything I have done in the past.

 

Can't pretend I'm happy everyday (or most days) but I'm still a lot better than when I was in a job i hated

 

 

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paperbackreader

@thylacine I was reading about this the other day 

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/jul/31/ready-for-robot-lawyers-how-students-can-prepare-for-the-future-of-law 

https://www.ft.com/content/f809870c-26a1-11e7-8691-d5f7e0cd0a16 

 

My thoughts: Learning how to utilise these new systems may give you an edge? :-) 

 

I've not had jobs where the youth fit in completely with your description - I agree some of them are less good at time keeping (comes in a bit late, lags for lunch, etc) and have less experiences / competence but this can be addressed with coaching / training; but the persistent problem makers (watches youtube at their desks, does things outside specifications / procedures, causes drama / fights) I've had to deal with have been mostly in their late 40s. 

 

I feel in general that being overworked and underpaid is accepted as a fact of working life now - I would say majority of my peers are in the same situation. I should be more busy trying to get up to speed with new tech and systems to ensure I'm not left behind but there's not enough time in the world to get everything done so a chicken and egg situation!!

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19 hours ago, thylacine said:

Gaogao...  you have a law degree & you are making just above minimum... ?  & your friends are working in retail... ?  I thought America was great again?  (Sorry!)  I guess it's the economy, it's not as wonderful as we are supposed to think it is.  Jade...  that is right, a lot of people work hard for miserable pay, myself included...  But I don't want "big bucks," just a better job, and I don't think it's too much to ask.

I don't live in America, so I can't really comment on whether America is great again ;) ... I would expect not, though, since I've observed this phenomenon happening all over the world.

 

I think what you're asking for - a better job - is perfectly reasonable in theory, but what we're saying is that in the economy now, 'better jobs' no longer really exist and us young people no longer expect to get them. That's why we settle for almost anything that pays us even a fraction over minimum, even if we have a law degree. ((One of my law school friends got a traineeship in one of the top law firms here - her yearly salary is twice mine, but her work hours are also doubled - technically she's working non-contracted hours, but if she refuses to work they'll just kick her out! So in the end, i think it works out to minimum wage as well. I don't know if that's honestly worth it, even for qualification. She gets home at 11 and is back in the office at 6. What kind of life is that?))

 

As Paperbackreader says, being overworked and underpaid is accepted as a fact of working life now. Wanting something that pays reasonably and motivates you to work is almost as impossible in our world as wanting "big bucks" - and we have at least another 40 or 50 years to go... (Plus.. it might be even more than that - since life expectancy is increasing, it's possible our generation will all have to be working until we're over 70. Only having 20 more years of work doesn't seem all too bad to me. Just hang in there...)

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Gaogao, re:  "better jobs" no longer exist ...  and Paperbackreader...  being overworked and underpaid is a fact of life now...

So...  is it "just me," or does everyone's job suck these days?  Cuz I have relatives who brag (constantly!) about how much money they make and how glorious their jobs are all the time...  every freakin' family gathering, 'I'm so successful, I'm so well paid for sitting at my desk putting pictures of my dog on Facebook'...  If everyone's job really sucks, and it's not just me, then are all these people who say how great their careers are lying or what?

 

I dunno, but I am for sure gonna work until 70-something because my 401K sucks and I have no pension...  I'll have to get plastic surgery to re-make myself into a 20 year old so I can get a job...  I will be the oldest 20 year old in the office, that is for sure.

 

The future is scary, because it's probably going to get worse.  Management knows they can work employees to death and pay them crap and get away with it these days.

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Stay where you are.  Age discrimination is real, and it's not going to go away.  You may want to work until you're 73, but that does not mean that you will be given jobs until that age.  You're MUCH better off saying with a job-in-the-hand and trying to turn down the irritation with younger workers (because if employers sense that, they will keep the younger employees who aren't going to cost them as much and let go the older employees who are not happy).   This is the world that we have now, and whether it's fair or not doesn't matter.  

 

That may sound a little harsh, but it's realistic.  I have several friends who have been laid off in your age range, and they are simply not able to find jobs.   And no matter how much younger you look, your real age is known -- there's no point trying to hide it.  

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Sally, NO WAY will I stay where I am...  the pay is low, the benefits are worse...  I absolutely MUST find something better, I MUST or I will sink into the despair of career oblivion...  I will keep looking, I have no choice but to keep looking.

 

It's not like I'm going to quit before I find a new job.  But I just won't give up trying to find a better job.  I've been looking for a year.  Have been offered jobs with no benefits though.

 

Had my hair colored today to hide the few grays that I do have.  Saw too decent looking jobs online and applied for both of them.

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1 hour ago, thylacine said:

But I just won't give up trying to find a better job.

Good for you! Best wishes!

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sparklingstars

Keep looking.  Sometimes it just takes a long time.  I applied for jobs for about 2 years before I got my current job (as a cataloger in a public library), and i'm extremely happy there.  

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22 hours ago, thylacine said:

Sally, NO WAY will I stay where I am...  the pay is low, the benefits are worse...  I absolutely MUST find something better, I MUST or I will sink into the despair of career oblivion...  I will keep looking, I have no choice but to keep looking.

 

 

Low pay/bad benefits = very good reason to look for something else.   Despair of career oblivion = bad attitude to have while looking for better job.   The fact is that employers are not interested in your career -- they want a worker that will not cost them too much, can do the work well, and will get along with other employees.   

 

Harsh fact (again):  worrying about career oblivion when you're 30 is very rational.  When you're 53, not so much.  

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Thanks Dave B and Sparkling Stars, for the encouragement...  Sally, yes, low pay & crappy benefits are a good reason to look around, but so is career oblivion, because I've got approximately 15-20 more working years, and I want those years to be good years, so I can retire and feel as if I had a decent career.  It's what I want, and I'm not going to give up on trying to find what I want.

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Lucas Monteiro

And I thought I was having a hard time, but it seems that it's happening even for people who are more experienced. I believe there is a lot of factors that could be in the mix to create a difficult to find any jobs that could be said close to real job. It could be pointed out just like others said before me, that as you are more older, the majority of employeers know that with you would be more hard to try to pay less and take your benefits away, or it could be too because of the economy. 

 

I'm in college and trying to find my first job, it's been already a year since I'm trying and guess what did I found ? Nothing. Almost every job that I tried to apply, it was full of people more older and experienced than me that would want to get the same job as me or young people that would get the job just because they would do for less than a minimum wage. When you see people with more than 30 years or people with two bachelors degree trying to get an internship as a job, you can truly think that some is really wrong.

 

It's somehow good to know that I'm not the only one going through those hard times (even knowing that I can't compare me trying to get my first job with you and your already experience), but I want to say to you that it's not your fault if you are in this kind of situation, there is many variables that made things be what they are today. It may be more hard to get a really nice job, but I believe it's possible. Never let other people say that you can't get there, because you can. We can't be looking backwards on our lives, we have to be always looking forwards. Always.

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3 hours ago, Lucas Monteiro said:

When you see people with more than 30 years or people with two bachelors degree trying to get an internship as a job, you can truly think that some is really wrong.

 

It is very difficult for older employees, or those with more education.   Employers have their pick of young employees who just came out of school and don't expect much money or benefits.  Compared to years ago, more people are getting college educations, so the market is full of those young people.   Employers are also apt to think that older people will be more difficult employees because they're used to doing things a certain way and won't be as adaptable.   When I quit fulltime work as a paralegal, my firm and others I knew of hadn't hired anyone under 30 for several years.  

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On 2/3/2018 at 3:27 AM, thylacine said:

Gaogao, re:  "better jobs" no longer exist ...  and Paperbackreader...  being overworked and underpaid is a fact of life now...

So...  is it "just me," or does everyone's job suck these days?  Cuz I have relatives who brag (constantly!) about how much money they make and how glorious their jobs are all the time...  every freakin' family gathering, 'I'm so successful, I'm so well paid for sitting at my desk putting pictures of my dog on Facebook'...  If everyone's job really sucks, and it's not just me, then are all these people who say how great their careers are lying or what?

Honestly? I think unless your relatives have incredible connections and have been very, very lucky, they are lying -- OR, they are able to get away with being INCREDIBLY lazy at work. Anyone who can say that they are being paid well to put pictures of their dog on Facebook is either a very lucky social media manager for their dog (and is working very hard to get their dog merchandising deals), or they're the type of person you've observed playing games and doing drugs in the bathroom during work hours. 

 

Some people think being successful is measured by how much bullshit they can get away with at work. I think that's just misguided-- it honestly sounds like your relatives are lazy and their managers haven't noticed that they aren't pulling their full weight yet -- either because their managers are so overworked they've got a million other things to deal with, or they're also lazy and expect someone else to pick up that slack.

 

If that's the sort of job you want to get, you probably need to get your schmooze on, and know the right people who can get you into something cushy where you can get away with browsing the internet all day while someone else who is probably paid less does your work for you. At the end of the day, people like that are just sponging off other hardworking people - their only skill is being able to make it look like they're working hard and have no conscience about doing it...

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Goagoa...  err...  my relatives had connections to get said awesome jobs (my cousins' dad "knew people" if yah know what I mean)...  he got them their current jobs...  Their dad got away with a lot of bullshit at work himself, but he knew people, so I guess that made him "successful."

 

But no, I just want a decent job with decent benefits and decent co-workers...  that's all.  I'm not really asking for that much.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Blue Phoenix Ace

I am one of the fortunate ones, with a job in computer programming. Math is my forte, and I always had an interest in electronics, so electrical engineering was a good fit for me. My first job was programming firmware, and a few years ago I switched to pure software. I don't get to goof off at work, except for the occasional visit to gmail or Fakebook. For me, the work is fulfilling, and it pays well too. What I do on a daily basis is fairly complex, non-repeatable tasks where more experience is highly valued by employers.

 

I'm not saying that to brag, just to help dispel some of the skepticism in this thread.

 

Unfortunately for you @thylacine, it sounds like your type of work has a high supply with low demand, which is a bad combination. Perhaps you would be able to retrain and learn a new field for a new career? Anything in STEM (Science, Tech, Engineering, and Math) is bound to be lucrative, but you do have to have a passion for it. Some other good fields are accounting or nursing. Granted, another college degree requires two precious commodities of time and money (but since time is money, just lots of money).

 

We are also seeing some of the pain of the globalization of the economy. I'm no economist, but it makes sense to me that if a company can hire four folks overseas for the price of one here (the US), they are just going to go for the four-pack. Even if each individual gets half as much done, in total it'll be twice as much for the four. This leaves less jobs available here. Until the other economies of the world hit an equilibrium, we'll continue to see this outsourcing. So, in the short term, it really sucks, but in the long term it'll work itself out and also help out the other countries of the world.

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  • 1 month later...

Update on my misery... Still have not found what I consider a "decent job."

 

Sigh...

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Keeping my fingers crossed for you. Good luck!

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa

Keep on keeping on...my uncle Peter used to say 'there are no good jobs - just some better paid than others. While I don't particularly agree with that , it seems there are more people than are needed and so it's easier for places to go for the least expensive option. Things can't keep expanding forever, so the business model is flawed to start with. Anyone with a law degree or paralegal  is very skilled, so , could you volunteer at a legal centre for homeless/sick/disabled people or animal/climate change charities? That would be a very meaningful thing to do and it would also look good on your CV , as you would be seen as someone who doesn't just sit down and wait. 

More than likely it would lead to a permanent placing, or a completely different life's work.

 

I do understand your frustration (as many here can attest, it was the same for me). I wouldn't swap my 58 year old job troubles for those of a 20 something though...imagine feeling like you're expendable with another thirty five years to go...:mellow:

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.diva plavalaguna.

And here I thought it's the 40yrs+ people taking all the entry level jobs and then doing online shopping and gossiping all day (kind of joking, but my mom has complained enough about her incompetent coworkers that it's stuck with me and made me a little salty).

 

I do hope you can find something that at least pays you a little better. Job hunting has been so depressing for me that I've kind of given up. Obviously that won't help me find a job, but...yeah.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update on my misery... Still looking... ick.  I have a job but it's a drag and a pain in the ass.

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  • 2 weeks later...

...  still looking...  taking an awfully long time to find a "decent" job...

 

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I was laid off during a corporate acquisition when I was almost 51 and found that - at least where I live - it was the not-for-profits that were hiring.  I took a pay cut (took me until this year to get back to where I was) but the people I work with are by and large very pleasant and dedicated.  The workforce runs the gamut agewise and I’ve seen numerous older (and younger) people hired since I started.

 

You doubtless have many universally-applicable skills - writing, communications, organization and planning, legal knowledge - so broadening your search into other fields might just land you something much more appealing.

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  • 2 weeks later...
thylacine

Had a "phone interview" with my cell phone on my lunch break today...  I hope they call back for a "real interview."

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