hopeisnotlost Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 What are some options for medically transitioning to a more androgynous appearance when you are biologically female? Link to post Share on other sites
Starbogen Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 As far as I know, some non binary afab people go on hormones to masculinize their appearance, but be aware that you can't pick and choose the effects of testosterone, so even if you went on a low dose you would still get all the same effects just at a slower pace. I've heard of someone who goes on T for a while (like a year maybe) and then goes off it for a while and then goes back on and so on so that some of the non permanent effects don't reach their most masculine potential and they stay within a more or less androgynous range. But I don't know how common this kind of thing might be. Top surgery is also an option to look more androgynous if your chest is something that bothers you. But I'm not non binary so I don't know what's best in this case. Link to post Share on other sites
InfiniteNull Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 It kind of depends on what your individual sources of dysphoria are and going after those things. The tough part comes into play with not being able to pick and chose sub-sets of certain things like being on T like Starbogen mentions. Link to post Share on other sites
butterflydreams Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I’m not sure, but I’d recommend avoiding HRT. The reason is like people here have already suggested, you can’t pick and choose the effects. Testosterone doesn’t make you look more androgynous, it makes you look more male. And it will do that, even on a low dose (it’ll just take longer). Also, many effects are permanent. My understanding of nonbinary people is limited, but I can imagine some permanent effects might not be desirable, or might not be desirable if they’re permanent. People (myself included) often put too much weight on medical transition, when the fact is there’s a lot more to transition as a whole than just medical aspects. Yes, they are important, but there’s a lot you can do without it. There’s a lot that has to be done without it. I’d go so far as to say that for nonbinary people, the non medical aspects are the most important to focus on. Though obviously dysphoria will dictate a lot of it. Link to post Share on other sites
ChillaKilla Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I’m nonbinary and decided that HRT was right for me. Interestingly, it has only strengthened the certainty in how I identify. I’d rather have a “male” physical appearance, but my gender is much more than that- it’s how I present, how I act and such as well. I never regretted what I did because I knew it was right for ME. Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon7 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 hours ago, butterflydreams said: People (myself included) often put too much weight on medical transition, when the fact is there’s a lot more to transition as a whole than just medical aspects. Yes, they are important, but there’s a lot you can do without it. There’s a lot that has to be done without it. I’d go so far as to say that for nonbinary people, the non medical aspects are the most important to focus on. Though obviously dysphoria will dictate a lot of it. I'm non binary trans queer. I really want to deal with my physical appearance, too. But also I'm hesitating as I have no idea how to get it, cost, insurance etc. You mentioned non medical aspects, but like how? @ChillaKilla, could you please tell me a bit more about that? Like, did you have side effects? How did you get prescription...only if you don't mind to tell! 1 hour ago, ChillaKilla said: I’m nonbinary and decided that HRT was right for me. Interestingly, it has only strengthened the certainty in how I identify. I’d rather have a “male” physical appearance, but my gender is much more than that- it’s how I present, how I act and such as well. I never regretted what I did because I knew it was right for ME. Link to post Share on other sites
ChillaKilla Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 @Falcon7 I had to get a recommendation from my therapist, who directed me to a hormone provider. I got an “average” dose, and at 10 months I’m doing very average in terms of effects- some acne (puberty all over again), deeper voice, more muscle, facial hair. Insurance covers it for me, but that depends on your provider. I was very lucky to get specialists who take nonbinary people seriously. Link to post Share on other sites
butterflydreams Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Falcon7 said: You mentioned non medical aspects, but like how? There are social things you can change, like names, how you interact with people, how people address you and so on. People always leave that out of Transition. There are also lots of things you can do regarding your appearance that don't involve medical intervention. IMO, that's the best way to achieve a more androgynous look. But then, being trans isn't some particular aesthetic. It would depend on where you're coming from (AFAB/AMAB) as to what specifically you'd do. Honestly, I can relate much more to @ChillaKilla's angle as they'd rather have a male physical appearance. Androgyny is more of an aesthetic in my mind. Link to post Share on other sites
ChillaKilla Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, butterflydreams said: Androgyny is more of an aesthetic in my mind. Pretty much. I compensated for my increased “phenotypical maleness” with wearing more makeup and and feminine clothing. But that isn’t to say the physical element isn’t unachievable. My hips will always be wide, and combined with a flat chest it’s a very androgynous look. Same with growing my hair back out. Link to post Share on other sites
Lonemathsytoothbrushthief Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 @ChillaKilla If you're growing your hair out, I'm just for a moment going to say how much I love my sidecut honestly though it's a kind of genderfluid aesthetic thing for me? If I'm less dysphoric I just feel like I look like a tomboy and am cool with that, but if I'm more dysphoric I'll just look at myself on the short side and feel a little better? Anyway, it's just a suggestion for a compromise I enjoy @Falcon7 Non medical aspects can be things like voice training, which as an AFAB person you may want to get a deeper range for your speaking voice, also body language which is also sometimes a good way to not be perceived as your assigned sex, as things like how we walk and stand etc and lots of nonverbal sorts of cues can be a big part of how people tend to assume someone's gender from what I've heard. I'd probably suck at this though, and whenever I go shutdowny or am feeling spaced out I feel I talk in a higher pitched voice anyway so I hope you have better luck than me, if this is something you'd want to try. Also I know people also do makeup to contour your face differently, which you can do to give yourself a squarer jaw and such? Just throwing out ideas here Link to post Share on other sites
Starbogen Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 5 hours ago, butterflydreams said: Androgyny is more of an aesthetic in my mind. I get what you mean by that but then again.. there are a lot of people who might have a very masculine or feminine presentation but their physical appearance is naturally androgynous, so I can understand how someone might want to look more like that just like someone else might want to look more male or female despite of the level of masculinity or femininity of their aesthetic style/ presentation. So in that way I think androgyny can be just a physical appearance too (as in having androgynous faces and bodies) independantly of aesthetics. Link to post Share on other sites
nerdperson777 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 8 hours ago, ChillaKilla said: Pretty much. I compensated for my increased “phenotypical maleness” with wearing more makeup and and feminine clothing. But that isn’t to say the physical element isn’t unachievable. My hips will always be wide, and combined with a flat chest it’s a very androgynous look. Same with growing my hair back out. Similar for me. I look more male but I still act female so it kind of confuses people. And an important thing to note about transition is that there are many different kinds. Medical is just one of them. Social is another. Your gender expression is something else. Before T, I was doing natural transition, which was taking vitamins along with diet and exercise, to "naturally" increase the amount of testosterone in the body. I find that my low dose T is like a double dosage of natural transition. The only thing I noticed out of natural transition was that I was growing a little bit of belly hair. I just about started exercising at that time so I'm not sure how much muscle and stamina had changed for me. I still take them, but T is way stronger than any of these supplements. T just gave me 2-2.5x more hair, along with my darker peach fuzz and increased muscle. For social, that would be changing name and/or pronouns. Gender expression would dictate things like your clothes, if you want to wear male underwear, cut your hair, things like that. Where I am, I can go to an informed consent clinic for hormones. I set up an initial appointment, went there, filled out some papers, made an appointment with the doctor, and after some ruffling with my insurance, I was able to get approved for hormones. The doctor I saw just sees that if you want hormones and you know the effects, that's enough to prescribe. It's not available in many areas but it's an option if you're near one. I'm 6.5 months on T now and I'm perfectly fine with my dosage. I got the quarter dosage and I'm doing just fine. But that could be because of my slow metabolism because I'm getting cis male levels on that low a dose. Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon7 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 @ChillaKilla, thanks for your information. So it's not that difficult than I thought! I'm AFAB so it can be a choice. Maybe I should go to a clinic first and talk to the professionals. @butterflydreams, thanks for your suggestions. I've already changed my name (not legal one) and quite happy with that, but it doesn't really mean they regard me as non-binary...and as you pointed out, the biggest concern is that I cannot pick and choose the effects. @Lonemathsytoothbrushthief, thanks for your ideas. Voice training!! That's a good idea! Let me know if you come up other ideas. @nerdperson777 natural treatment sounds quite interesting. Maybe I can start from there. Which vitamin/ supplement did you take, if you don't mind? I'm worrying about my friends reactions. My family never ever approve this, do I want to avoid drastic change. But I have had this sense of mismatch and conflicts for nearly a decade, so I really want to deal with it. Link to post Share on other sites
nerdperson777 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 @Falcon7 I took a multivitamin, magnesium, and fish oil. To really get more testosterone boosting effects, there are other things on the list. People don't usually recommend natural transition because it's really hard to get fit enough and it doesn't give enough effects to be worth it. Plus it's taking a bunch of pills, which can do a number on the liver in the long run. People say that it can cost as much as T or even more, assuming that we're comparing to vials of T. Then I don't think any of this has been officially proven to work. It's just theories and a handful of people on YouTube saying that it worked for them. The one that gives the most testosterone boosting effects is DHEA. It's like the closest thing to hormone therapy without exactly being testosterone. If you were to compete in a sport, DHEA would invalidate you from a female category. I would have to ask the staff for the next competition I go to if I can compete as male since I'm taking hormones, which would be more trouble. Eating a lot of garlic boosts testosterone also. I'm fortunate that my dad almost has garlic in every dish he makes and we really like garlic. Then I think there's something called milk thistle that helps the liver cleanse. That's all the big ones that I can think of on the top of my head. You can probably Google natural transition to find out more. I didn't know if I would transition before so I didn't take very many supplements that would boost that much. Plus I wasn't ready to come out of my shell since my parents would freak. Link to post Share on other sites
Emery. Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 On 2.02.2018 at 10:00 AM, nerdperson777 said: I got the quarter dosage and I'm doing just fine. But that could be because of my slow metabolism because I'm getting cis male levels on that low a dose. Omg Link to post Share on other sites
nerdperson777 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 8 hours ago, Emery. said: Omg what about it? Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon7 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 @nerdperson777, thanks for your information. I've googled and there are many things came up! DHEA seemed good but many people on the Internet are talking about side effects so got a bit confused... Very low dosage can make the entire process slow maybe? Link to post Share on other sites
Emery. Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 22 minutes ago, nerdperson777 said: what about it? About taking quarter of the usual dose and having the usual male levels. Never mind. That's just me being very surprised. Link to post Share on other sites
nerdperson777 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 18 minutes ago, Emery. said: About taking quarter of the usual dose and having the usual male levels. Never mind. That's just me being very surprised. Well I was measured at 650. Since I'm not as far along as others, one trial might not be accurate. It's possible that for my next checkup, my metabolism is so slow that my shots are slowly increasing my levels. In that case, I may need to lower my dose. Link to post Share on other sites
SkyWorld Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I identify as trans and non-binary. My expression is more neutral, but leaning masculine. So that's my approach with medically transitioning, so my body could look more masculine, but not too masculine too fast. I have done a lot of research prior to starting HRT and to me, some of the undesirable effects were just worth it to me for the other effects. Like lowering my voice and fat redistribution for example. Acne, I've just been trying extra hard to take care of my skin and minimize that. And I'm not ashamed if I'd have to use a bit of make-up to cover that up (even if I don't know jack squat about make-up, I'll do it if i have to). It's still too early to tell, but I was born with higher than average levels of testosterone and sometimes I was able to pull of a more gender-ambiguous look. Hmm.. rarely... But honestly some of the effects were things I already have and lived with, so I'm already fine with it and am still fine with it amplifying with HRT. Though honestly, it's only because I already have higher than average levels of testosterone did I feel that low-dose would be best for my body, personally. Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon7 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Hey @SkyWorld, actually this is what I want to do. Neutral, leaning masculine. It's best fitting my social situations, too. Lowering my voice and fat redistribution are very welcome, and I know how to shave me face - as a child I thought I would grow facial hair one day, so I practiced lol Are you going to maintain neutral look? Or are you going to proceed more cis make look? If you don't mind to answer... Link to post Share on other sites
SkyWorld Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 @Falcon7 Yeah, I’ve honestly already had to shave my face. It’s more genetic, the women in my family had darker peach fuzz as well. Pretty much all my life, I went for a more neautral look, but for the past few years, going for the neutral look, except all men’s clothes (and some unisex). Basically just jeans, sneakers, t-shirt, jacket/hoodie. I like the casual look and it’s what feels most comfortable to me. Well, expression-wise, that is. Medically, low dose I feel is best for me. And I’d like my body to look like a cis-male, but with some feminine features (that can’t be helped anyway, since it doesn’t change bone structure), but there are some cismen with feminine hips. I feel comfortable enough with my body to not really mind the feminine parts (except for the chest). Link to post Share on other sites
nerdperson777 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I'm an androgynous masculine person but I look like an insecure anxious femme guy. I'm perfectly fine looking like a boy. Not a man. I don't need a beard. Plus I'm not that tall so I wouldn't even achieve such a thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon7 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 @SkyWorld and @nerdperson777, thanks a lot for your information! Being trans queer is stressful and bothers me a lot. I felt really clueless but now I kinda got an idea - and courage to go to a clinic. It is quite insightful. It is likely to be a 'boy' if I take low-dose because I'm not really tall, too. Link to post Share on other sites
SkyWorld Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Falcon7 said: It is likely to be a 'boy' if I take low-dose because I'm not really tall, too. Well, for me, I still feel/consider myself a kid anyway because I was a teen not long ago. I don’t really want to look super sophisticated or “mature”, but just like your average late teen/young adult. I’m really short myself, so I wouldn’t be surprised if people take me for younger than I am and would be fine with it. Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon7 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 @SkyWorld, I see, actually that sounds cool & fitting to me! Link to post Share on other sites
nerdperson777 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I tend to identify as a early to mid teen even if I'm older than that. It's a strange thing. I can fit in in terms of the way I act, but I'm kind of an outsider when we talk about the stuff from our times, like how internet started being more widespread. Now every kid has a phone and is competing for the most likes on Instagram. I feel like a teen, but I didn't live live during that time. I pass for a shy, insecure 15 year old. That's fine with me, even if I do work a desk job like an adult. Link to post Share on other sites
Tortuga Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I feel as if I'm older than I really am, maybe as if I'm 15, 16, or 17. Somewhere around there. Link to post Share on other sites
Albine Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I went the other way hope u don't mind me posting here born male which i am ok with, I tried cross dressing even thought about transitioning/ hormones, but I always came back to really having the need/ desire to have breasts Finally after 36 yrs I had male breast augmentation done. So now I am a man with very noticeable breasts. I am pleased with the results, though recovery was somewhat painful, waking up with larger than expected breasts thank you to my surgeon who talked me into going larger than I initially wanted. Adjusting to them took a lot of time and effort both from a physical and social level. Overall though I am happy being me Link to post Share on other sites
hopeisnotlost Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 On 2/10/2018 at 8:31 AM, Albine said: I went the other way hope u don't mind me posting here born male which i am ok with, I tried cross dressing even thought about transitioning/ hormones, but I always came back to really having the need/ desire to have breasts Finally after 36 yrs I had male breast augmentation done. So now I am a man with very noticeable breasts. I am pleased with the results, though recovery was somewhat painful, waking up with larger than expected breasts thank you to my surgeon who talked me into going larger than I initially wanted. Adjusting to them took a lot of time and effort both from a physical and social level. Overall though I am happy being me I'm happy for you. Link to post Share on other sites
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