Dean. Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I told my best friend that I am non binary (maverique) and it didn't go so well. He knows I'm ace and is ok with that, he understands that portion of my life but as for the non binary part... he doesn't think that's real. He believes that there is only male and female and we got into a heated discussion about it, I did my best to explain it but he just won't accept it. I am not entirely sure how to go about talking with him about it any more because he basically refuses to accept it, if anyone has advice on how to remedy that and help explain it better, please let me know. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Are you able to send him a link to a site that explains it to him? Give him some time and maybe he'll come to terms with it. If not, sometimes friendships come to an end. *hugs* Link to post Share on other sites
Ortanique Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, Dean. said: I told my best friend that I am non binary (maverique) and it didn't go so well. He knows I'm ace and is ok with that, he understands that portion of my life but as for the non binary part... he doesn't think that's real. He believes that there is only male and female and we got into a heated discussion about it, I did my best to explain it but he just won't accept it. I am not entirely sure how to go about talking with him about it any more because he basically refuses to accept it, if anyone has advice on how to remedy that and help explain it better, please let me know. this may seem harsh, but is he really your friend if he doesn't want to accept you for you. as @Princess Merida said, give him some resource pages he can read and some time. If he still doesn't want to accept you, he's not really a good friend. Because a true friend would accept you no matter what. Link to post Share on other sites
Breo Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Hi! Since you are trying to help me, I will try to help you! If he really cares about you, he will have to learn that you are not male or female, that society is changing and that we have to know better now. I will give him some and wait if he realizes that he's doing wrong. If he keeps rejecting your identity, I don't think he's a good friend anymore and you have the right to get mad. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Hopefully it's a lack of awareness and he'll accept it given the information. He at least needs a chance. Link to post Share on other sites
RK800 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 If he really cares about you, then he'll accept you as you are. Trying linking him to a site that explains it, if he doesn't accept it after that then it's time to find new friends. Link to post Share on other sites
Chimeric Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Was it a heated conversation about his unwillingness to accept you as you are, or an unwillingness to accept the concept of non-binarism? He isn't a bad person for holding the beliefs that he holds. It may need to be just one of those things that the two of you will need to agree to disagree on in order for your friendship to continue, if you deem it's valuable enough to allow it to continue. He isn't likely to change his mind, and it seems you aren't likely to change yours, but if you get along perfectly fine otherwise, then why let this ruin a good thing? Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 You can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink. He most likely just isn't really aware of the concept of gender and is thinking purely about sexes, which is hard to blame him for considering our society emphasizes sex over gender. It happens immediately from birth ("it's a boy/girl!") so there is no real respite from it. Link to post Share on other sites
alicio Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 If he's really your best friend, he'll grow up and get over it. He should be willing to do what it takes to make you happy, and if he can't, that's his fault. I don't have much advice though, sorry Link to post Share on other sites
Chimeric Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 If he's really your best friend, it's worth agreeing to disagree for the sake of salvaging the relationship. Friendships are a two-way street. (Sorry, this is what I was trying to say earlier, but alicio helped give me the words to trim it down a bit. ) Link to post Share on other sites
ChillaKilla Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 @Chimeric That’s a terrible idea. I would NEVER be friends with someone who couldn’t respect a core part of who I am, and I doubt you’ll find many others here who would disagree. A “friendship” in which someone thinks my existence is imaginary isn’t “perfectly fine” by any stretch. Link to post Share on other sites
StormySky Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Maybe he's ill-informed? I'm sorry this didn't go well. Some people care more to debate than to accept. Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, ChillaKilla said: @Chimeric That’s a terrible idea. I would NEVER be friends with someone who couldn’t respect a core part of who I am, and I doubt you’ll find many others here who would disagree. A “friendship” in which someone thinks my existence is imaginary isn’t “perfectly fine” by any stretch. Devil's advocate. What about respecting the beliefs of the friend and accepting them for who they are? Link to post Share on other sites
Chimeric Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 @ChillaKilla I'm just suggesting that if the friendship has been that important for as long as it has, then clearly he's accepting Dean for who Dean is as a person. I'm working under the assumption that Best Friend is struggling more with the concept of "non-binary" than with Dean as a non-binary person (hence my clarification question), in which case the issue is with the words being used, and not with the person. Nothing has fundamentally changed, except for an identifier, at least from the information we've been given here. You identify as non-binary, but you are your compilation of unique and individual experiences and perspectives. No doubt your identifiers shape those things, but they aren't who you are to the exclusion of everything else. So, if the friendship has been good up until now, it's a perfectly acceptable thing to agree to disagree on the labels we use to identify ourselves, and maintain what was otherwise a good friendship. Link to post Share on other sites
ChillaKilla Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Evil said: Devil's advocate. What about respecting the beliefs of the friend and accepting them for who they are? Beliefs are nowhere near comparable to sexuality and gender. Should a gay person accept a homophobe who thinks they can be “cured” because muh beliefs? If you wanna play devil’s advocate, Hot Box is for that. Not this forum which is overwhelmingly intended for support and doesn’t tolerate invalidating like the kind Dean has gone through. Link to post Share on other sites
ChillaKilla Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 @Chimeric Except that “disagreeing with labels” is likely going to come with misgendering, deadnaming, and a whole other slew of disrespectful (to put it mildly) actions against OP. So why would we even waste time on that? Link to post Share on other sites
Chimeric Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Look, all I'm trying to say is that OP is concerned about losing their best friend. The response here so far has been in favor of cutting him out of OP's life, but I think that's dismissive both to Best Friend and also to Dean's considerable friendship with Best Friend. Obviously only Dean is going to be able to make the final call about what they are willing to concede - if anything - in order to maintain the friendship, but I just wanted to offer the very valid point that it is okay to compromise on these things in order to keep a good friend in your life. If Best Friend proceeds to disrespect Dean in light of the discussion they've had, then obviously that's a different scenario. Also, this is a Gender Discussion forum. Playing devil's advocate falls under the umbrella of "discussion," and may help OP with their decision. Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, ChillaKilla said: Should a gay person accept a homophobe who thinks they can be “cured” because muh beliefs? IMO yes. I had to with my family for my entire youth. Deans friend accepts him as a person. He just doesn't agree with gender definitions. Link to post Share on other sites
Tortuga Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 But @Evil, Dean's gender definition is part of who they are- I don't think, IMO, that this should happen if it's not entirely necessary. Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 @Tortuga I don't disagree, but we can't demand acceptance when we aren't willing to do it ourselves. Link to post Share on other sites
Tortuga Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 @EvilI do see your point. @Dean. I would suggest starting with just the pronouns? Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Quote IMO yes. I had to with my family for my entire youth. Yeah, because you pretty much had to if you didn't want to have a hard time with the people you must live with on a regular basis. We don't have to put up with that kind of shit when it comes to friends. Unlike family, we get to pick our friends. You can keep the friends that belittle who you are as a person and technically argue that you must not exist, if you want. Me though... life is too short for that. I'll pass. Quote Deans friend accepts him as a person. Sure could have fooled me. Link to post Share on other sites
Cnyb Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I'm not convinced I can really expect to convey my self-understanding to others. It could happen. It seems to happen sometimes, with people I have closeness. A lot of the time, my self-understanding is just barely understandable to myself enough to feel confident in a few broad notions, i.e., don't identify with blah and feh, vaguely resonate with meh, not liking fu and bar, etc. Maybe lately I'm digging a certain concept/term/label that seems to express or explain some things. There is probably some ambiguity, some blurry areas, some specifics where I don't exactly fit what someone else would use a concept/term/label for anyway. To expect myself to articulate self-understanding in suitable language that someone else will translate it to get a better understanding is... perhaps asking too much? Or was that gibberish. I have been known to identify with gibberish. In such cases other people tend to find my identification agreeable. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I had never heard of the term maverique and I had to google it. And, if I am being honest, it seems like one of the harder ones for people not aware of gender to understand. So, it's possible he'll come around with time and more information. I'm sorry he didn't react well though, it always hurts when someone you care about doesn't react the way you were hoping to something like that. Link to post Share on other sites
SkyWorld Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Philip027 said: We don't have to put up with that kind of shit when it comes to friends. Unlike family, we get to pick our friends. You can keep the friends that belittle who you are as a person and technically argue that you must not exist, if you want. Me though... life is too short for that. I'll pass. As someone who doesn’t connect with their family at all (except literally 3 people and sometimes another 2), I would refuse to deal with that from any family members. And from my own experience, I don’t think it would be so hard for me to cut off the few family members I actually talk to for not tolerating me as a person. I’ll be sad, but I would think it’s for the best for me. You can’t choose family, but you can choose if they have any contact with you or not. Though, that’s my own experience and some people are way closer to their family and the situation would probably be different. Link to post Share on other sites
Dean. Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 @Serran yea, it's one of those not so well known ones @Tortuga I will try that, thanks @Princess Merida Thanks, and I sent it to him, hopefully it will help @Breo thanks for the help @Flower Boy even if he doesn't accept it, I will still consider him a friend, he's kind of like my brother in a way, he's that close but I hope I can get him to at least come to terms with it if not accept it @Chimeric It was a little heated, but I think he'll calm down about it, hopefully @ChillaKilla 2 hours ago, Chimeric said: Look, all I'm trying to say is that OP is concerned about losing their best friend. The response here so far has been in favor of cutting him out of OP's life, but I think that's dismissive both to Best Friend and also to Dean's considerable friendship with Best Friend. thanks for that part, I really don't want him out of my life, he has been my closest friend for years and I won't loose that over this, but I still would like for him to accept it and this helps a bit. @Philip027 He does accept me as a person, just not in the regard to gender :/ Thank you all for the comments and replies, I will try my best to incorporate as much of it has possible to help get him to understand this, even if he doesn't accept it, at least he can respect it. Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Quote As someone who doesn’t connect with their family at all (except literally 3 people and sometimes another 2), I would refuse to deal with that from any family members. And from my own experience, I don’t think it would be so hard for me to cut off the few family members I actually talk to for not tolerating me as a person. I’ll be sad, but I would think it’s for the best for me. You can’t choose family, but you can choose if they have any contact with you or not. Though, that’s my own experience and some people are way closer to their family and the situation would probably be different. All of that is less easy to say when you're still under 18 or otherwise don't have any independence yet and still rely on them for your upbringing (in which case, no, you can't necessarily decide how much contact they have with you). Quote He does accept me as a person, just not in the regard to gender :/ As far as I'm concerned, that isn't real acceptance. You either are okay with someone else as a person (including everything about them), or you aren't. It's a yes-or-no matter; there isn't some weird inbetween on this. Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 10 hours ago, Philip027 said: You can keep the friends that belittle who you are as a person and technically argue that you must not exist, if you want. Me though... life is too short for that. I'll pass. I don't have friends that do that to me because I don't do that to them, give and take. Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Quote I don't have friends that do that to me because I don't do that to them, give and take. If your friends' sole reason for not being assholes is that you're not an asshole to them, that's honestly still pretty sketchy on their part. Link to post Share on other sites
Chimeric Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I maintain friendships with people who are homophobic, and one in particular who doesn't believe bisexuality is a thing. If these people were going out of their way to hurt or actively discriminate against gay or bisexual people, we wouldn't be friends. But they don't. It's a belief system they hold, and honestly I think it limits them, but in all other aspects they're good friends. Avoiding discussion about homosexuality is something that we do in order to keep what is otherwise a good friendship alive. Every now and again we'll venture into the realm of a debate, but we know when to shut it down when it becomes too heated (usually ). I benefit from having their perspective in my life, because there are people in the world that I will need to interact with who hold the same perspective, and knowing how to interact with those people is going to be important for my ability to succeed. They benefit from having my perspective in their life for the same reasons. And also they're fun to hang out with. The one who insists bisexuality isn't a thing can do so til she's blue in the face; I can't be invalidated by her because I am confident in my bisexuality. So we just don't talk about it. It is important to have friends with differing belief sets because it expands your individual perspective as a person, even (especially) if you disagree with those beliefs, and especially still if they're otherwise valuable people in your life. If they're routinely disrespecting you and making digs at you and just generally being dicks, then you are free to cut the toxic relationship. But especially since this is Dean's first convo with Best Friend, it's a hard thing for people to accept sometimes. I don't think it's worth dropping the friendship for what may have been an emotional knee-jerk reaction. That's all. Link to post Share on other sites
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