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Telecaster68

"Unless there was something a lot more complicated going on,” she insists, “there were usually substantial relationship benefits to making love"

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Ilovecake
1 minute ago, vega57 said:

This is not about what "a" church says, but what the bible says.  Please read 1 Corinthians 7:6 AGAIN. 

Question: "Is it wrong for a married couple to have sex just for pleasure?"

Answer: 
Almost an entire book in the Old Testament is dedicated to the subject of passion and sex for pleasure. Song of Solomon is so detailed in its intention of sexual pleasure in marriage that allegories were used to tone it down and Hebrew boys couldn't read it until they were 12, when they became men. God clearly intended sex in marriage to be pleasurable. 

First Corinthians 7:3-5 talks about not abstaining from sex in marriage: "But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. The husband is to fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does, and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

The feelings of sexual longings and pleasure during sex were created by God, and marriage was created to fulfill those longings. What Paul is saying is to direct those feelings to your spouse and no other and make sure that they are fulfilled within your marriage relationship, not outside of it. Notice that Paul says if one of the partners is not living up to his or her spouse’s expectations, whether it be pleasure or time, then both need to bring it before God so that one doesn't try to find fulfillment outside of that marriage relationship. Because of the existence of pornography and the perversion of sex over the years, many people (especially Christians) get the idea that sex for pleasure is wrong. We sometimes forget that God fashioned us for sex and created the emotions to go with it; pleasure was intended. We shouldn’t let Satan and his lies keep us from enjoying our spouses or fall into the counterfeit pleasure of sex that the world offers. God's pleasure is real and satisfying; Satan's is counterfeit and empty.

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vega57
1 minute ago, Ilovecake said:

Question: "Is it wrong for a married couple to have sex just for pleasure?"

Answer: 
Almost an entire book in the Old Testament is dedicated to the subject of passion and sex for pleasure. Song of Solomon is so detailed in its intention of sexual pleasure in marriage that allegories were used to tone it down and Hebrew boys couldn't read it until they were 12, when they became men. God clearly intended sex in marriage to be pleasurable. 

First Corinthians 7:3-5 talks about not abstaining from sex in marriage: "But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. The husband is to fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does, and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

The feelings of sexual longings and pleasure during sex were created by God, and marriage was created to fulfill those longings. What Paul is saying is to direct those feelings to your spouse and no other and make sure that they are fulfilled within your marriage relationship, not outside of it. Notice that Paul says if one of the partners is not living up to his or her spouse’s expectations, whether it be pleasure or time, then both need to bring it before God so that one doesn't try to find fulfillment outside of that marriage relationship. Because of the existence of pornography and the perversion of sex over the years, many people (especially Christians) get the idea that sex for pleasure is wrong. We sometimes forget that God fashioned us for sex and created the emotions to go with it; pleasure was intended. We shouldn’t let Satan and his lies keep us from enjoying our spouses or fall into the counterfeit pleasure of sex that the world offers. God's pleasure is real and satisfying; Satan's is counterfeit and empty.

Read the Song of Solomon again.  Sex and/or sex for pleasure isn't the 'gist'.  LOVE, however, is. 

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Ilovecake
4 minutes ago, vega57 said:

This is not about what "a" church says, but what the bible says.  Please read 1 Corinthians 7:6 AGAIN.  If you're not 'religious' as you claim, why do you keep using bible scripture to justify your point?

 Corinthians 7.7Actually I would prefer that all of you were as I am; but each one has a special gift from God, one person this gift, another one that gift.

 

corinthians 7.6 led me to 7.7. 

 

So so it’s a gift from god!!! 

 

Thanks god!

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Ilovecake
8 hours ago, knittinghistorian said:

You do if your beliefs mean abstinence until marriage.

This is what led us to discussing the bible. My apologies to @vega57as it wasn’t you who used religion to hide when describing how someone could not know they were not sexual in anyway before they got married. It was @knittinghistorian.

so I used the bible to counter act the argument. I am not religious but if you are going to disagree and use the bible to make your points, I shall do so in return.

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Ilovecake
1 hour ago, Ilovecake said:

Just out of interest, if there is such a thing as ‘not knowing’ what sexuality you are before marriage, why is there not one single example of an asexual, or gay person ‘coming out’ as *sexual* after years of marriage to someone of their own sexuality?

Why does it not work the other way around?

In my entire life I can not think of a single example of anyone changing from asexual or homosexual to sexual because it doesn’t happen from what I have seen.

This is not invalidating asexuality nor homosexuality it is simply me making a polite point!

**For example** is there a single example of a mature adult on this forum complaining of being an asexual and suddenly ‘discovering’ they are now ‘sexual’ after 20 years or so. Or that their partner was asexual and is now after many many years a sexual person?

Not that I have read every thread on this forum nor could I but I would bet my mortgage on there not being a single example of a mature adult, let’s say aged

30-60 years old, discovering that they were ‘wrong all along’ and now I have ‘discovered’ I am X, Y or Z on this forum which has been open for how long? 15 years?

Anyone had any thoughts on the above?

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Philip027

In my 6 or so years here I have seen several accounts here of people who previously thought themselves to be asexual only to end up not being so.  Not necessarily brought about by marriage, though...

 

It usually isn't a complete 180° though... oftentimes it's still a very "reserved" form of sexuality that develops, such as demi.

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Ilovecake
8 hours ago, Philip027 said:

In my 6 or so years here I have seen several accounts here of people who previously thought themselves to be asexual only to end up not being so.  Not necessarily brought about by marriage, though...

 

It usually isn't a complete 180° though... oftentimes it's still a very "reserved" form of sexuality that develops, such as demi.

Ok, that’s interesting. So a partial change but not complete change or a complete discovery that you are totally different. Thanks

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knittinghistorian
14 hours ago, Ilovecake said:

This is what led us to discussing the bible. My apologies to @vega57as it wasn’t you who used religion to hide when describing how someone could not know they were not sexual in anyway before they got married. It was @knittinghistorian.

so I used the bible to counter act the argument. I am not religious but if you are going to disagree and use the bible to make your points, I shall do so in return.

I wasn't "using religion to hide" or making an "argument".  It was an explanation.  How can a couple not know if they're sexually incompatible until they're already married?  That's how.  That's all I was saying.

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Serran
14 hours ago, Ilovecake said:

Anyone had any thoughts on the above?

There are people who discovered they are not asexual. 

 

Potential small TMIs below: 

 

The first TV interview I saw was on 60 minutes. One of the asexual couples there discovered they were not asexual after all, after moving in with each other. A few of our users have discovered they are sexual, rather than asexual and moved on from AVEN. And a few of our current members have discovered they're not asexual, after dating people who also thought they were asexual.

 

I thought I was sexual for most my life, cause I just assumed that's what everyone was. I had four relationships, one marriage (10 years total together with the spouse, but 1 year married, 9 years living together). None of those sparked any sexual interest in me. In fact, I grew to despise sex rather than like it. However, I was told it's a duty we do for partners, as women. Other people told me you just had to try all kinds of stuff til you like it. My partner told me I just needed a good partner that would try. So, I tried. And tried and tried and tried. And nothing. 


Then... after divorcing my spouse, moving back home and being alone for a year, I met an absolutely wonderful person from AVEN. We both agreed no sex. I even explained I probably won't be OK with my boobs/genitals being touched, cause I hated it so much in past relationships. However, as we got closer and there was literally no pressure for sex at all, cause they were OK with me not being into it at all, I started actually desiring a few sexual things with them. I figured out what sexual attraction feels like, and sexual desire. I know I've never felt them before, despite caring about past partners. This is why I do not ID as asexual anymore. My partner goes with no label. 

 

As Philip said though, it's not "totally different" - I am not sexually attracted to anyone else, just my partner. No one else can turn me on, I don't want to see other people without clothes on (actually, it is rather uncomfortable, cause I am with someone). And I don't want a fully sexual relationship - I have no desire for PiV/oral/anal sex and probably could not be happy with someone that needed those things (and my partner doesn't want them, so no issue), but some things are fun. And, after 30 years, I found out why people find orgasms to be nice, so that's something (I never masturbated before, as I never got "turned on"). 

 

It's hard to know what your sexuality is. No matter how experienced you are, you can be dead wrong about how you feel about sexual relationships. Human feelings and sexuality are really complicated, when it's not the "normal" experience. And no advice you get from people really helps, cause they are all basing it on their "average" experience, which is .. usually discovering wanting sex in teenage years, then maybe having to figure out what gender their attractions are towards. It all sounds really simple. Not the 15 year up and down what the jaiofmaioffmfm am I that I went through to mostly  figure out what I want sexually (though, I'm honestly still trying to unravel my feelings for everything, given how I feel with my current partner, since it's confusing).

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Telecaster68

@Serran

 

In the general cause of sharing experiences... How would you describe the niceness of orgasms to your prr-orgasmic self?

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Serran
4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

@Serran

 

In the general cause of sharing experiences... How would you describe the niceness of orgasms to your prr-orgasmic self?

With a partner - fun, but not needed and if it went away I wouldn't be upset. Solo... meh, OK, but missing the majority of the emotional parts so not that interesting. :P 

 

TMI:

 



 

What I have found I enjoy more is just teasing... which doesn't really work with a fully sexual partner, so I am pretty sure I would just infinitely frustrate in a "normal" sexual relationship. Most the time I'd rather just play, without aiming for any sort of "finish", then cuddle - which would leave most people unsatisfied and wanting more. 

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Thea2
19 hours ago, vega57 said:

Wow, dude.  First of all, Thea quoted DIRECTLY from the bible.  If you READ the bible, you would KNOW that.  PAUL was the one who said that it was HIS words (and not the Lord's).

Thea was only quoting from the bible what was written. 

 

Read Corinthians again. 

Thank you vega57 😊🌸

 

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Thea2
19 hours ago, Cnyb said:

Thank you very much Cnyb for the above links. 😊

 

19 hours ago, Cnyb said:

My paraphrase: It's good for men and women not to touch, but then there's temptation, so what to do, well let people marry and help each other out on this matter; don't defraud each other lest you fall into temptation, though of course for a time it may be agreeable to both to abstain and pray, but then get back together because why set your self up to be tempted, self-control is tough.  This is a concession not a command, though

 

A prooftext without context is a pretext.  I know, axes to grind, been there myself.

It's good for men and women not to touch”  😊

 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
19 hours ago, Philip027 said:

You'd think so, but you yourself should know that not everyone is necessarily like that.  Yours is far from being an exceptional case, either.

That's why I said literally immediately before that statement (in the same paragraph that you quoted none the less) that not all sexual people would agree with me on that :P

 

19 hours ago, Philip027 said:

Ficto said: Even for non asexual people with relatively high libido's (ie myself) having sex when I don't feel like it would just be a downer for myself AND my partner. It would make him feel like crap to know I wasn't in the mood but was forcing myself to have it.. that's flaccid-inducing material haha. I think a lot of sexual people (not all of course) probably agree with me here regardless or whether or not you're with an asexual, 'just having sex anyway' certainly wouldn't be fun for a lot of people if them or their partner isn't in the mood.

 

 

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Telecaster68

I'm fairly sure MWD is talking about building on responsive desire, not gritting your teeth and thinking of England - that's as much from her TED talk and other things she's written as that interview though.

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Ilovecake
2 hours ago, Thea2 said:

Thank you vega57 😊🌸

 

And I read Corinthians again and there was zero change. It says what it says and it is in the book of god!

Did you manage to read my original question about how I ‘upset’ you by my comment earlier in this thread? I was unable to understand how you found my comment ‘dismissive/confrontational’ and ‘off topic’ and yet the dismissive comment from Phillipe - “in other news....” which went on to mention characters from Star Wars and which you commented on, was not off topic and not dismissive/confrontational?

 

i was just wondering what I did/said wrong?

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Ilovecake
On 21/01/2018 at 2:57 PM, Philip027 said:

 

In other news, water is wet, people die if they are killed, and get this -- Darth Vader is actually Luke Skywalker's dad.

 

This is the comment ( above) you were ok with @Thea2 but my comment received a reception of 

“WTF rude and aggressive. Also off topic”

 

I found Philip027’s far ruder, and off topic. Neither were aggressive were they?

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Ilovecake
7 hours ago, knittinghistorian said:

I wasn't "using religion to hide" or making an "argument".  It was an explanation.  How can a couple not know if they're sexually incompatible until they're already married?  That's how.  That's all I was saying.

Fair enough. In some ways I would have thought that not having sex before marriage makes it easier to identify that you aren’t going to like it though. Only because if you find it really easy and actually ‘I quite like this way’ you would be wondering would you not? I don’t know. All very complex.

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Ilovecake
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm fairly sure MWD is talking about building on responsive desire, not gritting your teeth and thinking of England - that's as much from her TED talk and other things she's written as that interview though.

I totally agree. Responsive desire. Not possible for anyone sex repulsed but an asexual? Maybe, maybe not. Someone with low libido? Likely.

There is an excellent video on YouTube called  “the sex starved marriage” where she explains things very well.

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Ilovecake
6 hours ago, Serran said:

A few of our users have discovered they are sexual, rather than asexual and moved on from AVEN.

Are there any threads about this on here?

 

I’d be quite interested to read what they had written with regards to the realisation.

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Serran
10 minutes ago, Ilovecake said:

Are there any threads about this on here?

 

I’d be quite interested to read what they had written with regards to the realisation.

Some made threads, but I honestly didn't bookmark them. All I can offer is my own. I know @FictoVore. also used to ID as ace, she might be willing to link you to some of the stuff about her journey. 

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Ilovecake
45 minutes ago, Serran said:

Some made threads, but I honestly didn't bookmark them. All I can offer is my own. I know @FictoVore. also used to ID as ace, she might be willing to link you to some of the stuff about her journey. 

Thanks!

@FictoVore.....

Maybe this is too personal to share, maybe not and this you would be comfortable. 

How did you come to realise that you were sexual having previously identified as asexual? 

 

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