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Telecaster68

List different kinds of sex (All the TMI, hopefully...)

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, Jade Cross said:

You cannot convey emotions

Well that's all of Art told. 

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Chimeric

For the same reason that I'm here to understand my ace partner, I thought it would be a nice effort to offer my perspective to the ace community. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm just trying to offer another voice that runs a bit counter to what the mainstream generally has to say. 

 

It's not a campaign, I don't want to chide everyone who talks about sex in sheerly physical terms, I don't want to bare my emotional connection to my person to the general world - but I do want to contribute my understanding of things to this niche community that's done so much to help teach me. 

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Chimeric
3 hours ago, Jade Cross said:

I guess I'll be the odd one out as Im not able to put myself in others shoes. My mind simply doesnt work that way for better or worse. Sorry I stepped in this. I'll remember to avoid it in future occasions

It's okay Jade, your perspective is just as valuable as anybody else's here. The more we get to talk about things, the better we can understand each other.

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Jade Cross

.

 

 

 

 

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Telecaster68
34 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

Allright, I'll rephrase it. You cannot make others feel your emotions.  

Actually, you can, at least in principle. That's pretty much what mirror neurons do.

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Telecaster68

When we (and most higher order mammals) watch something, or read about, the same parts of our brains activate as if we were actually doing it. They first noticed this in Barbary apes watching some scientists eat, during a lunchbreak, and the apes were had their brains wired up. That's why we get so immersed in films; novels work as well.

 

This is from wikipedia, but it's basically right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron

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GLRDT
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Actually, you can, at least in principle. That's pretty much what mirror neurons do.

I feel like you can feel the energy coming off of someone and in that way feel, empathize, and absorb those feelings, but they can't make you relate and truly understand those emotions. You can just feel the emotion, you can connect the why in your mind, but not the why in your heart unless you've lived through it.

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Thea2
10 minutes ago, GLRDT said:

I feel like you can feel the energy coming off of someone and in that way feel, empathize, and absorb those feelings ...

I find this interesting, so I hope someone will respond to this (I've been told that emotionally speaking I'm a newt, so I'm keeping stum :ph34r: ).

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, GLRDT said:

I feel like you can feel the energy coming off of someone and in that way feel, empathize, and absorb those feelings, but they can't make you relate and truly understand those emotions. You can just feel the emotion, you can connect the why in your mind, but not the why in your heart unless you've lived through it.

Yeah, it's something like that. You know when you're deeply involved in a film or book so you're immersed in the world, and you get the physiological responses like fear, or happiness, or tension as though you were in the scene? It's that, basically.

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Snao van der Cone
1 hour ago, GLRDT said:

I feel like you can feel the energy coming off of someone and in that way feel, empathize, and absorb those feelings, but they can't make you relate and truly understand those emotions. You can just feel the emotion, you can connect the why in your mind, but not the why in your heart unless you've lived through it.

 

Just now, Telecaster68 said:

Yeah, it's something like that. You know when you're deeply involved in a film or book so you're immersed in the world, and you get the physiological responses like fear, or happiness, or tension as though you were in the scene? It's that, basically.

This is part of why it took me so long to identify as asexual. It didn't seem necessarily foreign to me because I could understand it from an audience's perspective. It just took putting myself in real life situations to realize I did not understand how it directly felt to have that deep motivation to express towards another person, and I probably never would.

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, Snao Cone said:

It didn't seem necessarily foreign to me because I could understand it from an audience's perspective. It just took putting myself in real life situations to realize I did not understand how it directly felt to have that deep motivation to express towards another person, and I probably never would.

So you were kind of having the 'mirror' reaction to something you didn't get directly? Interesting.

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Telecaster68
15 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

For instance as an ace what or how would the neurons work if I do not participate in the activity myself?

It was a response to your assertion that we can't communicate emotion, or feel something that somebody else is feeling. We demonstrably can, or at least our own version of it (like fear, happiness, tension etc.)

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GLRDT
38 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

This is part of why it took me so long to identify as asexual. It didn't seem necessarily foreign to me because I could understand it from an audience's perspective. It just took putting myself in real life situations to realize I did not understand how it directly felt to have that deep motivation to express towards another person, and I probably never would.

I didn't realize this until I read this just now but holy crap me too. Thank you. I find myself agreeing with asexual and sexual people on this site when they make good points not because I'm gray asexual but because of my ability to put myself in other people's shoes and empathize deeply with their perspectives. Of course that makes sense when it comes to sex. I still want to feel that desire and passion I don't have because I can feel that sexual people think it's amazing and a super connected way to communicate, but it doesn't mean I can. That explains why growing up that was confusing to me as well. Thank you for posting! Really great phrasing!

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SecondMoon
8 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Actually, you can, at least in principle. That's pretty much what mirror neurons do.

I would argue the point that mirror neurons are only mirroring observable phenomena; since people have subjective responses to what they observe, emotional experiences could very possibly be far off the mark of what the person being observed is experiencing. True, the same could probably be said for actions that one has no experience with (e.g. if I have never ridden a bike, how accurately are the actions involved in peddling, balancing, steering, etc going to be represented at the neuronal level?); there's a certain level of guesswork there. I think in the realm of emotions, though, this kind of guesswork is amplified and may not even occur. An example for that might be watching people laughing and clapping. I might casually see and hear that and experience a mirroring of those actions in the brain which then produces a certain degree of merriment within me. Cool. But let's say I'm observing people laughing and clapping along to something that I find asinine. I still might have those mirror neurons firing along to the clapping and cheering ('cause that's just what they do), but I'm personally likely to feel the exact opposite of merriment--like I want to leave the room. Possibly the planet. So, it could work in the way that you're saying, but there can also be dramatically different results depending on the context. I think mirror neurons are relevant in the process of empathy and emotional understanding, but are much better, in terms of accuracy and precision, for helping you mimic motor activities than they are for mirroring emotions.

 

So there was a side note.

 

On topic, I also wanted to throw in that I prefer the idea of listing reasons for sex rather than naming types; it seems to more effectively convey that people may have multiple reasons at one time. This is probably the #1 most common type of sex: Eh, Plenty of Reasons Sex.

 

Example: if you have a partner whose been gone for a while and work has been really tough on you during that period, you might have Domestic Missed you Refuge Sex when they return. Hey, and maybe you were also bored when they walked in the door. Etcetera...

 

I also didn't see anyone say Curiosity Sex, so I'm going to throw curiosity in as a potential reason: one may wonder what sex is like with a particular person, or a particular type of person, or in a particular environment, or just generally if you don't have any or much experience having sex... Plenty of situations to be curious about.

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, SecondMoon said:

I would argue the point that mirror neurons are only mirroring observable phenomena; since people have subjective responses to what they observe, emotional experiences could very possibly be far off the mark of what the person being observed is experiencing. True, the same could probably be said for actions that one has no experience with (e.g. if I have never ridden a bike, how accurately are the actions involved in peddling, balancing, steering, etc going to be represented at the neuronal level?); there's a certain level of guesswork there. I think in the realm of emotions, though, this kind of guesswork is amplified and may not even occur. An example for that might be watching people laughing and clapping. I might casually see and hear that and experience a mirroring of those actions in the brain which then produces a certain degree of merriment within me. Cool. But let's say I'm observing people laughing and clapping along to something that I find asinine. I still might have those mirror neurons firing along to the clapping and cheering ('cause that's just what they do), but I'm personally likely to feel the exact opposite of merriment--like I want to leave the room. Possibly the planet. So, it could work in the way that you're saying, but there can also be dramatically different results depending on the context. I think mirror neurons are relevant in the process of empathy and emotional understanding, but are much better, in terms of accuracy and precision, for helping you mimic motor activities than they are for mirroring emotions.

Yeah, their exact effect is still being debated, as per that Wiki article, and it's clearly not an automatic, continuous thing. But stories, especially, are constructed to maximise that effect, it seems, and we all know the feeling of being immersed and affected by them, and that was my original point - it is possible to make someone feel an equivalent emotion. I'm not claiming any more than that.

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Serran
On 1/23/2018 at 6:29 AM, Jade Cross said:

This is the key phrase and the reason many aces dont really get why the same thing they hear from people ultimately bugs people when repeated back at them. 

 

Its what they hear from peers, from friends, etc. I have never heard anyone outside Aven generally talk about sex in any other form (unless medical) other than the "gotta get some".

 

That seems to be the only socially acceptable way to talk about sex because if you try to have a serious discussion about it,  suddenly everyone loses their minds and everything has to remain hush-hush.

 

 

 

 

Hmm.

 

I've certainly heard a lot of the casual sex talk, but I've also heard about the personal stuff. Not a lot of people are going to pour their hearts out to people, which discussing how they bond emotionally via sex is kind of doing that. But, things like a girl at my college made a replica of her boyfriend's genitals when he was shipped out to Iraq for a year, it wasn't because his are the best kind of toy she could get, but because of the emotional connection and wanting to feel still connected to him while he was gone. There is often an implied message of the emotional value of things. But, even in popular media like Friends, they touch on how things are different when you feel for someone vs just casual hookups. And it's a common theme in romcoms that the "bad boy player" starts to feel all "sappy" for a girl when he falls for her and even sex changes for him. 

 

It's not often gone into detail with though, granted. Cause it's assumed that everyone has experienced it themselves, so they know what it's like. 

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GLRDT
5 hours ago, SecondMoon said:

 

I also didn't see anyone say Curiosity Sex, so I'm going to throw curiosity in as a potential reason: one may wonder what sex is like with a particular person, or a particular type of person, or in a particular environment, or just generally if you don't have any or much experience having sex... Plenty of situations to be curious about

I only ever have curiosity sex unless I'm in a committed relationship, then I do it for my partner as a compromise. Curiosity sex replaces my lack of desire for sex, thus the gray asexualness.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
11 hours ago, GLRDT said:

I only ever have curiosity sex unless I'm in a committed relationship, then I do it for my partner as a compromise. Curiosity sex replaces my lack of desire for sex, thus the gray asexualness.

out of interest, what do you mean by 'curiosity sex' in this instance, when you say it replaces your lack of desire for sex? 

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GLRDT
6 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

out of interest, what do you mean by 'curiosity sex' in this instance, when you say it replaces your lack of desire for sex? 

I mean I never yearn or crave to have sex. I've never needed or had a strong desire for it in that way. However, the few times in my life where the attraction was more than aesthetic and maybe into the realm of sexual attraction (still not really sure what sexual attraction feels like, I just know with three guys before I've felt something different or more) with those guys, I've been more curious about what it would be like in a I wonder if it will actually be passionate or lustful with them and there will be more desire kind of sense since I feel more attracted than usual. Also I'm very curious in general learning about people in all ways and having sex with someone can be a way to learn about them in another way. I'm also sensual and like being physically close to people I at least find aesthetically pleasing and then if they have that extra boost I become more curious about sex, but at the same time if I never had sex with them I'd be perfectly fine. Does that make sense? Or did I thoroughly confuse you with my rambling?

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Thea2
On 24/01/2018 at 5:21 PM, GLRDT said:

I feel like you can feel the energy coming off of someone and in that way feel, empathize, and absorb those feelings ...

When observing some people IRL, this is my experience too.

 

On 24/01/2018 at 4:31 PM, Telecaster68 said:

When we (and most higher order mammals) watch something, or read about, the same parts of our brains activate as if we were actually doing it ...

 

On 24/01/2018 at 7:05 PM, Telecaster68 said:

... when you're deeply involved in a film or book so you're immersed in the world, and you get the physiological responses like fear, or happiness, or tension as though you were in the scene ...

Some movies portray that watching a movie (e.g. the Ring) or reading a book (e.g. the Ninth gate) conjures up an actual entity.

 

This is how I understand what you say: First there’s the input from the 5 senses; then the working of the mirror neurons on that input, creates the energy inside me. I.e. the energy is my own feelings. And, there is NOT created an actual physical energy in the external world outside of me. Correct?

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Telecaster68

I have no view on 'energy' as some kind of almost spiritual thing as you guys seem to be talking about it. I'm just talking about neurons, but since they make up our brain which is how we experience the world, what we experience is a function of neural activity. An emergent property, if you like.

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Chimeric

Energy is neither created nor destroyed, but our measly little brains are super good at making things up. :lol:

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Jade Cross

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Thea2
1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

I have no view on 'energy' as some kind of almost spiritual thing ...

Puts in mind my problems with ‘sexual attraction’  :lol: 

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