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Telecaster68

List different kinds of sex (All the TMI, hopefully...)

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Chimeric

I was working under the assumption that the original point of this thread was to communicate from a sexual person's perspective the nuanced and varied types of sex people have, in an effort to convey that it isn't always the "gotta get some" mentality that tends to be perpetuated.

 

2 hours ago, Jade Cross said:

Whoever wants to understand their partner or sex will make the effort

Exactly this, in fact. I'm on these forums because my partner identifies as ace, and I'm hugely invested in understanding his perspective. In the meantime, I can share mine, and through multiple discussions like this one, we can eventually hammer out the general reality of things.

 

I'm not understanding this as an attempt to dictate a universal truth, but rather as an attempt to demonstrate there is no One True Way to experience sex - and certainly not as an advertisement for sex. Just as a source of information, in case anyone was wanting to understand the other side of the coin.

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Jade Cross
55 minutes ago, Chimeric said:

I was working under the assumption that the original point of this thread was to communicate from a sexual person's perspective the nuanced and varied types of sex people have, in an effort to convey that it isn't always the "gotta get some" mentality that tends to be perpetuated.

It may have started out like that but got derailed as I suspect any future threads will.

 

Even if you want to present it in the most textbook, definition available and get technical or biological about it, the only phrase people will hear is "gotta get me some" because that is the phrases that gets so tiresomely repeatedly thrown around in general society. 

 

 

 

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Snao Cone
2 hours ago, Jade Cross said:

Even if you want to present it in the most textbook, definition available and get technical or biological about it, the only phrase people will hear is "gotta get me some" because that is the phrases that gets so tiresomely repeatedly thrown around in general society. 

I think people want to express it in deeply personal ways, not using fancy scientific terminologies or presenting diagrams as vague as furniture assembly instructions. Many sexual people on AVEN have wanted to describe the nuances and intricacies of how and when they feel sexual. "When I see a hot piece of ass" is very rarely mentioned. If that's the only thing some asexual people are hearing, they're likely choosing to hear it - for what reason, I don't know. 

 

You may encounter a lot of people talking about sex that way in your life, but in mine people talk more about gardening, tv series, and signing their kids up for sports. Part of what makes AVEN special for me is getting to learn about a/sexual diversity of experience in a designated environment. The original intent of this thread was a great way to compile that, in my opinion.

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Telecaster68
5 hours ago, Jade Cross said:

It may have started out like that but got derailed as I suspect any future threads will.

If it's just sexuals posting, I really don't think it will. What derails threads like this is the insistence on One True Definition, which seems to me to be an exclusively asexual quest (not all asexuals, but just asexuals).

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Jade Cross
5 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

You may encounter a lot of people talking about sex that way in your life, 

This is the key phrase and the reason many aces dont really get why the same thing they hear from people ultimately bugs people when repeated back at them. 

 

Its what they hear from peers, from friends, etc. I have never heard anyone outside Aven generally talk about sex in any other form (unless medical) other than the "gotta get some".

 

That seems to be the only socially acceptable way to talk about sex because if you try to have a serious discussion about it,  suddenly everyone loses their minds and everything has to remain hush-hush.

 

 

 

 

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Telecaster68

I think men, especially, and youngish men even more especially, tend to talk about it like that as they prefer not admit to emotions which might imply vulnerability. Having been a youngish man at one point, I'm pretty sure they do have those emotions. It's another thing that sexuals can figure out, based on their own experience, but asexuals tend to struggle with.

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Jade Cross
1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

I think men, especially, and youngish men even more especially, tend to talk about it like that as they prefer not admit to emotions which might imply vulnerability. Having been a youngish man at one point, I'm pretty sure they do have those emotions. It's another thing that sexuals can figure out, based on their own experience, but asexuals tend to struggle with.

Yes, they can figure it out but do they talk about in public.? You just said it yourself, they prefer not to admit emotions and just propogate the "gotta get some" mentality/ideal then get mad at aces for repeating back at then exactly the same thing they spend ao much time saying themselves. Thats my point.

 

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Telecaster68

I haven't seen anyone getting mad, but YMMV. It's more that the subtext and emotional stuff is a given, because we all do it, and it can be puzzling when someone doesn't get it, and then frustrating if they then insist there was no subtext.

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Jade Cross

What does YMMV mean?

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Telecaster68

Your mileage may vary...ie your experience may be different. 

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Jade Cross

Never heard that phrase being used for sex before. Cars yes, sex, not so much.

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Philip027

YMMV is used for pretty much anything with which experiences can shift wildly from one person to another.  It might be rooted with car discussion, but is an expression that has branched out to damn well nearly everything.

 

In a similar manner, "batting a thousand" does not always specifically mean playing a perfect game of baseball.  It's gone on to be an expression used to refer to doing a perfect job at nearly anything you could think of.

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Jade Cross

As I mention, I've only heard it being used in car discussions.

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Philip027

YMMV is used loooooooads on the internet; I'm actually surprised you haven't seen it anywhere other than that.  You're probably not as likely to hear it said in actual verbal conversation though.

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Jade Cross
19 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I haven't seen anyone getting mad, but YMMV. It's more that the subtext and emotional stuff is a given, because we all do it, and it can be puzzling when someone doesn't get it, and then frustrating if they then insist there was no subtext.

Frustrated and getting mad are pretty close. And again you may have sex, just as many other people do. But most aces dont, we dont spend any amount of time finding the intricacies of sex (unless we happen to be involved with a sexual partner or something similar) so we mostly just rely on what we hear which is again the emotionless mentality that gets put forth.

 

 

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Jade Cross
1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

YMMV is used loooooooads on the internet; I'm actually surprised you haven't seen it anywhere other than that.  You're probably not as likely to hear it said in actual verbal conversation though.

Outside of Aven, I really dont spend much time on the net.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
41 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

Its what they hear from peers, from friends, etc. I have never heard anyone outside Aven generally talk about sex in any other form (unless medical) other than the "gotta get some".

how do you mean exactly? I haven't read all the posts here so may have missed something, but do you mean you've never heard of anyone talking about sex as something emotional, as opposed to just something physical? 

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Jade Cross
7 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

how do you mean exactly? I haven't read all the posts here so may have missed something, but do you mean you've never heard of anyone talking about sex as something emotional, as opposed to just something physical? 

In general life, no. I never hear sex being talked about as something emotional. Its either the emotionless mentality the hush-hush scenario or the med talk.

 

 

 

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Telecaster68

To be fair Jade, I've seen you post about avoiding discussions about other people's personal stuff quite a lot.

15 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

Frustrated and getting mad are pretty close.

Frustrated can come out as low level anger I guess, or shift into anger. But it's not the same thing. Seriously, have you had people shouting at you because sex is just physical to you?

 

 

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Jade Cross
7 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

To be fair Jade, I've seen you post about avoiding discussions about other people's personal stuff quite a lot.

Frustrated can come out as low level anger I guess, or shift into anger. But it's not the same thing. Seriously, have you had people shouting at you because sex is just physical to you?

 

 

I dont make it a priority in life to be butting in or other people's personal business, true. But if talk about emotional sex is really as common as its being made to sound here, I dont stumble upon it or hear it from afar.

 

Full on rageful shouting hasnt happened but I have had people getting pretty pissed off at me when I dont share their views that they start shouting a bit. Which is why, amongts other reasons, why I dont hang around people, especially in sex talks.

 

 

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Telecaster68
6 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

if talk about emotional sex is really as common as its being made to sound here

It's not being made to sound common. But it exists, it's not 'never'.

 

7 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

I dont hang around people, especially in sex talks.

So you can't really know all the ins and outs.

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Jade Cross
2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's not being made to sound common. But it exists, it's not 'never'.

Then we're going in a circle.

 

If it exists but its not talked about, its pretty much the same as saying it doesn't (mind you in general terms, not personal/relationship terms). If you dont put forth an idea to counter another, however uniformed, the uninformed idea will be the one to gain ground.

 

You can say you're doing it here and I'll agree but outside Aven or the net, do you make it a point to teach others that sex is more than just the physical act?

 

 

2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

 

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Chimeric

So, again, this thread is meant to convey ideas about sex that may not necessarily fly in daily life. 

 

Sex is deeply personal which is why most people don't talk about it, except very superficially, which comes off as flippant, which produces the "stick it in" vibe. 

 

Those of us posting on this thread are desperate to tell you that this isn't the case, so while you can insist that the rest of your life experiences say otherwise, you can also believe our perspective. We're not lying to you. We want to pull that curtain back a bit. 

 

We're also not trying to convert you, and we know there's a de facto barrier to be faced when it comes to conversations about sex between sexuals and asexuals, but what we're trying to say is sex isn't always the way it's portrayed in the mainstream. You can believe us. 

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Jade Cross
23 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

So you can't really know all the ins and outs.

 

True, but like before; if only one type or one ideal of it gets put forth, even if I was around others, it wouldnt really make much difference.

 

The other option would be to become involved in sex and participate in it which I doubt I will do because from where Im standing, by itself, dealing with others is a pain, much more so when sex is involved in any way, shape or form. I dont believe sex would in any way make up for all the things that seem to go wrong because of it.

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Jade Cross
24 minutes ago, Chimeric said:

So, again, this thread is meant to convey ideas about sex that may not necessarily fly in daily life. 

You do realize how contradictory this sounds right?

 

Quote

 

Sex is deeply personal which is why most people don't talk about it, except very superficially, which comes off as flippant, which produces the "stick it in" vibe. 

Again, thats my point. If sex is personal and emotional and you (generally speaking) only speak of it superficially in the outside world, which produces that very same ideal that sexuals get frustrated over, how has that not been enough cause to start talking about emotional sex outside the net which could help in dispelling the misconceptions?

Quote

 

Those of us posting on this thread are desperate to tell you that this isn't the case, so while you can insist that the rest of your life experiences say otherwise, you can also believe our perspective. We're not lying to you. We want to pull that curtain back a bit. 

 

Quote

 

We're also not trying to convert you, and we know there's a de facto barrier to be faced when it comes to conversations about sex between sexuals and asexuals, but what we're trying to say is sex isn't always the way it's portrayed in the mainstream. You can believe us. 

Say I give it a shot, (and in general people do this. Its not only mainstream media that talk about sex this way) do you have tangible evidence to support it?

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Chimeric

Ohhh, I think I see where my message is failing to come across. 

 

I don't talk about sex in my daily life. Who I have sex with and how I choose to have it is immensely personal, and no one's business. There is probably a degree of selection bias happening in that people who brag about sexual encounters may tend to be people pursuing casual hookups. Or, as Tele has said already, people don't tend to wax eloquent on emotions, period, let alone emotions involved with something as vulnerable as sex. 

 

What if we framed it a different way? AVEN generally accepts that the concept of a woman is different from what the mainstream tends to sell as the concept of a woman. In fact, I think most people (paradoxically) accept this stance. 

 

The concept of sex is different from what the mainstream tends to sell as the concept of sex. 

 

I agree that it's a conflicting thing out in the real world, but that doesn't make our statements less true. 

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Jade Cross
1 hour ago, Chimeric said:

Ohhh, I think I see where my message is failing to come across. 

 

I don't talk about sex in my daily life. Who I have sex with and how I choose to have it is immensely personal, and no one's business. There is probably a degree of selection bias happening in that people who brag about sexual encounters may tend to be people pursuing casual hookups. Or, as Tele has said already, people don't tend to wax eloquent on emotions, period, let alone emotions involved with something as vulnerable as sex. 

 

What if we framed it a different way? AVEN generally accepts that the concept of a woman is different from what the mainstream tends to sell as the concept of a woman. In fact, I think most people (paradoxically) accept this stance. 

 

The concept of sex is different from what the mainstream tends to sell as the concept of sex. 

 

I agree that it's a conflicting thing out in the real world, but that doesn't make our statements less true. 

It may not be less true but essentially, youre shooting yourself (again generally speaking) in the foot by only ever voicing the non emotional version of it and later getting frustrated that, that non emotional version is the only one you publicly provide (outside the net) and is the one that gets thrown back. Its like throwing a tennis ball at a wall and getting frustrated the ball hits you back with the same force.

 

Elaborate on the seeing a woman differently because Im not sure Im on the same page there.

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Telecaster68

If it was the people who talk about gotta get some you were talking to now, on AVEN, and they were saying the same thing, you'd have a point. But these are different people in a different context - that's why we're saying something different. If I was talking with them in that situation, I'd be a bit more Gotta Get Some (not entirely that way as I'm not like that, but I'd moderate what i was saying somewhat). If they were here now, they'd probably be using more emotional terms. These things aren't a pure mathematical statement of eternal objective truths, they're people's conversations in different contexts.

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Jade Cross
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

If it was the people who talk about gotta get some you were talking to now, on AVEN, and they were saying the same thing, you'd have a point. But these are different people in a different context - that's why we're saying something different. If I was talking with them in that situation, I'd be a bit more Gotta Get Some (not entirely that way as I'm not like that, but I'd moderate what i was saying somewhat). If they were here now, they'd probably be using more emotional terms. These things aren't a pure mathematical statement of eternal objective truths, they're people's conversations in different contexts.

So are we agreeing that its basically a lost cause?

 

Because as you guys/girls are mentioning, sex is personal/emotional. You cannot convey emotions and aces will not understand it at a personal/emotional level as they do not participate nor feel the emotions usually associated with sex. At best, all you can hope to explain it objectively which by the look of this will not get very far.

 

Even if you convince aces to say that "Ok you guys feel emotions" or that sex is not just physical thats pretty much the extent of what you can hope to gain.

 

Or at least I will never be able to say something like "Yes I see exactly what you're saying, my partner and I (assuming that I had one which is not going to happen) feel the same"

 

To be honest it just has a "birds of a feather fly together" feel to it. Aces and sexuals cannot mix so should each group stay within their own kind so to speak? In which case whats the point that aces know or not that there are emotions attavhed to sex? Unless they are struggling with being able to make a relationship with a sexual partner work, it seems like theres no point or purpose to know sex entangles emotions.

 

 

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Snao Cone
1 hour ago, Jade Cross said:

So are we agreeing that its basically a lost cause?

 

Because as you guys/girls are mentioning, sex is personal/emotional. You cannot convey emotions and aces will not understand it at a personal/emotional level as they do not participate nor feel the emotions usually associated with sex. At best, all you can hope to explain it objectively which by the look of this will not get very far.

 

Even if you convince aces to say that "Ok you guys feel emotions" or that sex is not just physical thats pretty much the extent of what you can hope to gain.

 

Or at least I will never be able to say something like "Yes I see exactly what you're saying, my partner and I (assuming that I had one which is not going to happen) feel the same"

 

To be honest it just has a "birds of a feather fly together" feel to it. Aces and sexuals cannot mix so should each group stay within their own kind so to speak? In which case whats the point that aces know or not that there are emotions attavhed to sex? Unless they are struggling with being able to make a relationship with a sexual partner work, it seems like theres no point or purpose to know sex entangles emotions.

 

 

Sorry, Jade, I'm not understanding where this is coming from. When I read the things that sexual members of AVEN have to say, as well as my friends in other realms of life, I find that I'm better able to put myself in their shoes, even though I don't feel that way on my own. Reading things like how sex after a fight feels different from sex after a romantic dinner on the couple's anniversary provides context for things that asexual people won't directly experience. Asexual people don't need to say "I experience the same thing" for this to be a relevant conversation to have for asexual and sexual people alike. What they may say is "That's interesting, and gives me a better understanding of how sex means more things than just fitting objects into other objects." Asexual people can benefit from that, and it will help promote the understanding that asexual people aren't weird or messed up - they just don't experience the same things.

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