Genderfluid Wanting T

[SparklingGarbage]

Hello everyone this is a personal story and question that has been on my mind for about a year or so now.

I am genderfluid. I’ve been for most of my life, but only recently had the knowledge and the education to know the term

for what I was feeling. I was born female and now I have days where I feel more feminine, masculine, and neither/adrogenous. 

Being born female I have very feminine features ( ie: wide hips, breasts, fem. face). I’ve been using binders, baggy clothes, and beanies to hide my hair to look more masculine/androgenous, but I still feel dysphoria due to how feminine I look. I’ve been reading and learning about T and AndroGel. I know non binary people have used AndroGel to achieve the look they want and I’ve been debating if I could or should use it. I hate my feminine features even on days where I feel feminine. I want to look more androgenous, but I’m afraid of using AndroGel or T because of the negativity and backlash it may cause. My parents are supportive and so are my friends and my partner, however I don’t feel like I’m worthy enough to use AndroGel or go on T (if that makes any sense). I want to change how I look so bad, but I feel like I can’t use or have access to any transitioning gels/injections because I’m not trans or non binary. I just don’t feel like I deserve it I guess?

Does anyone else feel the same?

What are your thoughts?

 

[Falcon7]

Hey welcome to AVEN 

I absolutely relate this, and have been in struggle for many years, as my parents (particularly my mum) just hate any kind of gender topic and she gets angry so I even can not bring up this. 

Recently, however, they became more tolerant and got binders.

 

It is good to have supportive family and friends! 

I've never used medication as I'm also afraid of side effects and reactions of people around me. When I compare the fear towards risks and my uncomfortableness/hatred, I still take the latter.

But not sure, because this uncomfortableness getting stronger.

 

Sorry I cannot offer any information/advice. I'm curious too, and glad to know that there is a person also has the same struggles.

 

[JellyfishWishes]

I can't really share your struggle, as I was born naturally androgynous, but from the outside looking in I really have to ask, 'what makes you any less worthy than anyone else'???

I get where you're coming from- "i'm not TRUE trans" or "i'm not TRUE non-binary" but I believe there is no 'pure' label. no matter how deep or shallow you are on the spectrum, don't you have a right to feel comfortable in your own skin, even if that means changing it?

[Xenobot]

Well, as someone who has been on testosterone for about 8 years now (as a transman), I would say that I don’t know if T is really the solution you’re looking for. I mean, it could be but I would advise extreme caution because, based on what aspects of yourself you say you’re dysphoric about, you migh not get the results you want.

 

Breasts: T isn’t going to help with this at all.

 

Hips: Combining T with a solid muscle building routine could help reshape your body, but I don’t think it’s gonna be maintainable without T, and longterm T means going through a full male puberty.

 

Face shape: You’d only see changes in this area after a significant amount of time on T, and it will likely be extremely difficult for you to detect a change here. Other people who see you infrequently will notice the change before you because it’s such a very, very slow and gradual thing.

 

Things you will likely see before changes in your body or face shape: facial hair, body hair, clitoral growth, and deepening voice. If those things would cause you dysphoria, don’t risk it. You can target the areas that cause you concern with surgery (breast reduction or removal, liposuction to the hips, plastic surgery on the face. Relying on testosterone to get what you want is a scattershot approach. It’s going to hit a lot, not just the areas that bother you, and it may not have a significant impact on those areas at all, which is exactly why transmen often do have a little bit of surgery in combination with T.

 

I’m not trying to be too discouraging, I’m just saying: be really careful. Some places will prescribe T if you sign a waiver saying that you are wholly responsible for the results.

 

You DO deserve to feel comfortable in your body. I just don’t want you to end up feeling dysphoria for having traits that are too masculine after T.

[JellyfishWishes]

1 minute ago, Xenobot said:

Well, as someone who has been on testosterone for about 8 years now (as a transman), I would say that I don’t know if T is really the solution you’re looking for. I mean, it could be but I would advise extreme caution because, based on what aspects of yourself you say you’re dysphoric about.

 

Breasts: T isn’t going to help with this at all.

 

Hips: Combining T with a solid muscle building routine could help reshape your body, but I don’t think it’s gonna be maintainable without T, and longterm T means going through a full male puberty.

 

Face shape: You’d only see changes in this area after a significant amount of time on T, and it will likely be extremely difficult for you to detect a change here. Other people who see you infrequently will notice the change before you because it’s such a very, very slow and gradual thing.

 

Things you will likely see before changes in your body or face shape: facial hair, body hair, clitoral growth, and deepening voice. If those things would cause you dysphoria, don’t risk it. You can target the areas that cause you concern with surgery (breast reduction or removal, liposuction to the hips, plastic surgery on the face. Relying on testosterone to get what you want is a scattershot approach. It’s going to hit a lot, not just the areas that bother you, and it may not have a significant impact on those areas at all, which is exactly why transmen often do have a little bit of surgery in combination with T.

 

I’m not trying to be too discouraging, I’m just saying: be really careful. Some places will prescribe T if you sign a waiver saying that you are wholly responsible for the results.

 

You DO deserve to feel comfortable in your body. I just don’t want you to end up feeling dysphoria for having traits that are too masculine after T.

whew! so glad someone with first hand know-how commented.

if that's the case, pardon my ignorance, but would minor cosmetic surgery be an option to look into?

I plan to go through cosmetic surgery in the next few years if changing my lifestyle doesn't help, but its nothing related to their struggle so i'm not sure if its on the right track.

I just hate seeing someone feel unworthy because of other peoples standards.

[Xenobot]

40 minutes ago, JellyfishWishes said:

whew! so glad someone with first hand know-how commented.

if that's the case, pardon my ignorance, but would minor cosmetic surgery be an option to look into?

I plan to go through cosmetic surgery in the next few years if changing my lifestyle doesn't help, but its nothing related to their struggle so i'm not sure if its on the right track.

I just hate seeing someone feel unworthy because of other peoples standards.

I think cosmetic surgery is a good option as long as you have realistic expectations, and you do a lot of research on the right surgeon/right procedure for you. I think the important thing to remember about cosmetic surgery is that body image issues often run deeper than the problem area you’re focused on, so you’ve got to be prepared to change the inside too.

[To Each Their Own]

As someone who is agender, I knew that T was not the right thing for me, but cosmetic surgery absolutely was. I had body sculpting done to remove a what I considered a female silhouette. And I also had too surgery (no nipples). I am extremely satisfied with my results!!

 

My gender identity is not fluid, however. So I’m not sure how a permanent solution like surgery would work.  I think you mentioned, OP, that there were some things that you were dysphoric about even on your feminine days. Perhaps surgery could help with that. 

 

If your voice is one is one of those things that you are dysphoric about, there are ways you could work on deepening it that don’t require T. The results are not as dramatic, but at least you can do something. 

[Just Somebody]

Taking androgens/"male" hormones isn't that risky WHEN MEDICALLY ACCOMPANIED.

 

On the good side, it can do wonders to a "female" body,  you gain muscles, your periods stop, you feel more full of energy bc the muscles, also your risk for feminine cancers and feminine problems like blood clots , etc decrease, if you have uterine problems they're also likely to go away. Your clitoris will also grow and well you'll feel like you have "an Asian sized" penis, however you won't be able to pee standing like cis men sadly, but you'll have to learn to clean it like cis men do. You can still get pregnant while on hormones so you should always use protection, even though your risk is smaller. Your shoulders will grow bigger and your hips will shrink after some years due to fat redistribution and muscle gain.

 

on the ugly side.... you'll grow a beard and will have to learn how to shave, you'll face problems like that five o' clock beard shadow, you'll get hairy anywhere you can think about also,  your boobs will deflate due to fat redistribution, they'll become easier to hide but they won't dissappear they'll just get droopy and lose perkiness, they can shrink a bit,  but don't worry,  boobs shrink and drop and lose perkiness for everybody in a given age. Your voice pitch will change and drop too, you'll gain an Adam's apple as your vocal cords and traquea cartilage grow , it's kinda hard to hide, but usually it's not that prominent, drastic changes happen if you start younger,  but if you want your old voice back you can do some voice training, like how MTF girls do, what is kinda tricky but not impossible. You'll very likely gain more weight too. About pregnancy again, you can become infertile but rarely sterile while on hormones and for a while without them, also about sex,  your vagina will stop self lubrificanting what makes sex painful without lubrification,  also you'll be at risk for more genital area seasonal infections. After a few years on hormones you may experience baldness  and your hair line will receed after some months on hormones. You may also feel more horny. You may live less bc male life expectancy is below female life expectancy. As I mentioned, common feminine risk increased diseases may not be a worry anymore, but common masculine risk increase diseases like hearth problems may arise. Your sweat and urine will smell more and your skin will get oily but stronger.

 

You can't choose which effects you want.  you're trading lemons for apples.

 

 

Hormones are cheaper than surgery and well. .. if you're like me and hate surgeries that's an nice option to achieve that genderqueer-y androgynous look. Don't be afraid to go after gender therapy,  there's therapists who are very sympathetic of gnc/genderqueer cis people and enbies. You do you.

[Xenobot]

@Just Somebody I don’t think the clitoral growth transmen get can be compared to an asian man’s penis, and that is also a very racially insensitive thing to say. The average asian man has a significantly larger penis than what most transmen achieve without surgery.

 

Here is a good resource for potential health risks associated with testosterone: http://www.ftmguide.org/tandhealth.html

 

Based on personal experience and what I’ve read, taking T as a physically mature person doesn’t change your bone structure, it changes fat distribution and muscle mass. Transwomen get smaller shoulders because HRT causes them to lose muscle mass in that area. The reverse is true for transmen. That’s why their shoulder’s may appear wider over time. They may also lose some fat from their hip area, which emphasizes the masculine V torso shape.

 

TMI, but you won’t necessarily lose vaginal lubrication. You may, but that’s not absolute.

 

The health risks may indeed be pretty low overall. HRT is quite safe for the majority of people, but when we’re talking about nb people, the psychological risk of swinging the pendulum too far and creating more dysphoria is a serious matter. HRT was never intended to produce androgyny, ya know? It produces masculinization or feminization, but everyone reacts a bit differently to HRT so it’s hard to say which results you will or won’t get in a limited timeframe.

[Just Somebody]

36 minutes ago, Xenobot said:

@Just Somebody I don’t think the clitoral growth transmen get can be compared to an asian man’s penis, and that is also a very racially insensitive thing to say. The average asian man has a significantly larger penis than what most transmen achieve without surgery.

 

Here is a good resource for potential health risks associated with testosterone: http://www.ftmguide.org/tandhealth.html

 

Based on personal experience and what I’ve read, taking T as a physically mature person doesn’t change your bone structure, it changes fat distribution and muscle mass. Transwomen get smaller shoulders because HRT causes them to lose muscle mass in that area. The reverse is true for transmen. That’s why their shoulder’s may appear wider over time. They may also lose some fat from their hip area, which emphasizes the masculine V torso shape.

 

TMI, but you won’t necessarily lose vaginal lubrication. You may, but that’s not absolute.

 

The health risks may indeed be pretty low overall. HRT is quite safe for the majority of people, but when we’re talking about nb people, the psychological risk of swinging the pendulum too far and creating more dysphoria is a serious matter. HRT was never intended to produce androgyny, ya know? It produces masculinization or feminization, but everyone reacts a bit differently to HRT so it’s hard to say which results you will or won’t get in a limited timeframe.

I was trying to be funny, sorry, anyway, expect something not larger than 3 inches.

 

 

And yeah, as you pointed out,  "YOU MAY" I think this apply to all changes in general, bodies don't work the same.

 

 

But I think OP should consider first their feelings towards being both the "bearded-lady" and the "booby-guy" in the same body as the most radical scenario possible , like seriously try picturing yourself , if that makes you satisfied go for it, if you just want a "unisex/gender neutral" look, pretty sure HRT might disappoint you in the long term.

As a genderfluid person  who took hormones, tbh I feel like being an FTM and an MTF all in the same body , I don't even pass for cis anything anymore.

 

Also, HRT was never Intended to make "your vulva fall off and grow a real dick" , it was never intended to change a male to a female and vice versa, it just makes people androgynous in most cases, HRT is not a sex reassignment surgery.

[Xenobot]

2 hours ago, Just Somebody said:

I was trying to be funny, sorry, anyway, expect something not larger than 3 inches.

 

 

And yeah, as you pointed out,  "YOU MAY" I think this apply to all changes in general, bodies don't work the same.

 

 

But I think OP should consider first their feelings towards being both the "bearded-lady" and the "booby-guy" in the same body as the most radical scenario possible , like seriously try picturing yourself , if that makes you satisfied go for it, if you just want a "unisex/gender neutral" look, pretty sure HRT might disappoint you in the long term.

As a genderfluid person  who took hormones, tbh I feel like being an FTM and an MTF all in the same body , I don't even pass for cis anything anymore.

 

Also, HRT was never Intended to make "your vulva fall off and grow a real dick" , it was never intended to change a male to a female and vice versa, it just makes people androgynous in most cases, HRT is not a sex reassignment surgery.

I don’t think HRT makes most people look particularly androgynous, personally. I think it makes them look like men and women, respectively, if they’re on it long term. Maybe some of them look androgynous for the first 6mon-1yr, or they may look androgynous if they stop HRT at the right time, but I wouldn’t say that the secondary sexual characteristics caused by HRT could be called truly androgynous. I mean, I want ALL trans people to feel comfortable in their own skin, and I don’t exclude NB people from that like some people do. The problem is that the medical interventions/treatments for trans people are very much designed with binary trans people in mind. I feel really empathetic towards NB folk who have to try to make that treatment plan work for them.

 

You made a good point about the “bearded lady/booby guy” thing. HRT isn’t necessarily going to cancel out the puberty you already went through. It’ll mitigate some of it, but really you’re just adding more secondary sexual characteristics on top of the situation and using surgery to de-emphasis the parts you don’t want. Certainly, HRT can be the right choice for some NB people, but ya have to approach it knowing what you’re potentially getting yourself into. Are you happy with your results from using HRT shortterm?

[Just Somebody]

1 hour ago, Xenobot said:

I don’t think HRT makes most people look particularly androgynous, personally. I think it makes them look like men and women, respectively, if they’re on it long term. Maybe some of them look androgynous for the first 6mon-1yr, or they may look androgynous if they stop HRT at the right time, but I wouldn’t say that the secondary sexual characteristics caused by HRT could be called truly androgynous. I mean, I want ALL trans people to feel comfortable in their own skin, and I don’t exclude NB people from that like some people do. The problem is that the medical interventions/treatments for trans people are very much designed with binary trans people in mind. I feel really empathetic towards NB folk who have to try to make that treatment plan work for them.

 

You made a good point about the “bearded lady/booby guy” thing. HRT isn’t necessarily going to cancel out the puberty you already went through. It’ll mitigate some of it, but really you’re just adding more secondary sexual characteristics on top of the situation and using surgery to de-emphasis the parts you don’t want. Certainly, HRT can be the right choice for some NB people, but ya have to approach it knowing what you’re potentially getting yourself into. Are you happy with your results from using HRT shortterm?

Well, if you don't think a man with a pussy and a woman with a cock are androgynous enough I don't know what you mean by androgynous.

 

As for me...

Well, as a genderfluid bearded-lady/booby-boy myself haha I never felt more comfortable in my body even though I'm kinda overweight , I can relate to both trans woman and trans man, heck I'm viewed as both of those in the streets, even though I'm comfortable with what my body became, it's very scary to leave home, people throw stares,  and it's scary to leave home alone and go some places in determined times, what drives my anxiety nuts, tbh after I transitioned I exchanged my depression for anxiety literally...

I figured out its quite easier and better for my safety if I try to present as a gay cis man or as a trans man, I can pass as a trans woman or as a  cisbian but misogyny in my area is not worth it, I prefer people to think I have a penis so I feel safer. Since I present more masculine when I leave home, I try to bind my chest with multiple sports bras that dig my ribs with their bands, camis,  bodyshapers,  etc, I'm overweight and quite "well-endowed", but when I'm home, oh god there's no better sensation other than taking off my bindings and go topless,  I actually love my boobs and I get soooo anxious for my health  bc I bind nearly everyday and surgery is definitely  a no way for me, I don't want to lose my sensation there with a reduction, but also don't want to lose my lungs, ribs and skin from binding. also, body hair definitell helps me pass for a guy even if I go stay braless, it's also harder to pass for a cis girl bc I have to constantly shave my arms, legs, chest,  belly, butt , back,  armpits,  literally my whole body and I still fucking get that damn 5 o' clock beard shadow because my dark natural hair also adam's apple need to be covered with scarves. I also have to wax my armpits because they smell worse since hormones.

Taking hormones was an awesome way to deal with dysphoria for me, it ended my periods and I don't have cramps anymore, I don't have to worry about my underwear being red anymore, I also don't even need to surgically remove my interiors.

 

 

I love being that "fusion of a male with a female" androgynous, sometimes it looks like I'm different people and also feel in love with them. But anyway,  for a huge part of my life I considered going full "nullo" like these unisex-y-gender-neutral kind of androgynous, I just couldn't stand the idea anymore I was totally going into paying to mutilate myself with experimental surgeries that could potentially kill me or ending in pain for the rest of my life bc I couldn't accept the loss of my "child androgyny" and the fact I have developed female. By the time I just felt awful, I wished I never developed female to begin with. Then I looked by the other side and if solo developing female was the problem, maybe I could develop male too.

[Xenobot]

@Just Somebody, I don’t want to get too deeply into it because I don’t want to derail this thread (if we haven’t already, sort of done that. Hopefully @SparklingGarbage finds the conversation helpful). I wouldn’t say a man with a vagina is androgynous, I would say he looks like a man. I wouldn’t say a woman with a penis is androgynous, I would say she looks like a woman. If someone has a relatively even mixture of secondary sexual characteristics, then yeah, sure, that can be called androgyny. If someone has little to no secondary sexual characteristics, I would say that is also androgyny. Prepubescent kids look androgynous if not for the way society “gender codes” them with specific haircuts, and clothing styles/colors. 

 

I’m glad HRT worked out for you, and I hope society becomes much more accepting of NB identities so you can feel as safe and comfortable in public as you do at home.