Telecaster68 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, MistySpring said: Maybe she has no interest in sex in general apart from the person she is with/loves....or maybe she would not wish to make her kids go through their parent having an affair. The fact that she did not look to have an affair does not say anything about her sexual desire. So he wanted sex. By your analysis, she wanted sex. For some reason, they didn't have sex. After fourteen years, he had an affair. She wrote to a newspaper columnist, baffled by the difference between 'love' and 'being in love' with the 20 year absence of sex only a passing reference. Which one seems to be less bothered about sex to you? Link to post Share on other sites
NoLongerActive1234 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Just now, Telecaster68 said: So he wanted sex. By your analysis, she wanted sex. For some reason, they didn't have sex. After fourteen years, he had an affair. She wrote to a newspaper columnist, baffled by the difference between 'love' and 'being in love' with the 20 year absence of sex only a passing reference. Which one seems to be less bothered about sex to you? Why is it a contest of who'd be most bothered by it? We can't go off of anything he thinks because we're just reading her thoughts and she did mention she was saddened by the lack of sex...that is at the very least a good indicator that she has not been liking the situation. The route you are taking, rather than believing her word, you're thinking she just has not wanted sex. What do you think then, is she not sad about the lack of sex? Is she lying in an anonymous letter? You have no idea what she has done in the past either or whom she has taken advice from nor her husband. The main problem for her at the moment has got to be what to do with the current situation I'd assume with coming to some realization that her husband is not in love with her. Maybe she has been in denial about him not loving her? Maybe she thought he wasn't into sex? Maybe she is not well mentally? Maybe they have just been focusing on taking care of the kids? Maybe he, she or both have stressful jobs? etc etc. Who knows what she has gone through. No matter the case I'm pretty sure one doesn't write briefly to a columnist for advice unless feeling quite desperate and in turmoil. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said: Maybe. But he was the one who had the affair, not her, which implies he does want sex. The post implies to me that both want sex, but he doesn't want it with her, since he's not "in love" with her and probably views her more like a friend/relative, which makes sex awkward. My mom used to work with a woman that would do everything to try to get her husband to have sex with her, she'd sleep naked, she'd ask, she'd buy lingerie, nothing worked for ten years of marriage. But, turns out, he just stayed with her cause she was a good mom and he'd been having sex elsewhere for years. If she didn't care about sex, she wouldn't say "sadly we haven't", she most likely wouldn't even mention it. She most likely focuses on the love thing because to her, not being in love with her is a lot more of an issue for their marriage. You can work on an affair, you can work on sex, but you can't really work on the person just not loving you anymore. And it was 20 years, not 14. 14 was the second one, where the person flat out said their marriage has never worked cause they have had no sex or intimacy for 14 years and wanted to divorce. "You and your husband might be able to ignite the flame of a loving marriage from these lumps of coal, but it would take a lot of work and commitment from both of you." That part pretty much means "You might be able to get him to feel passionate love for you again, but it will take a lot of work from both of you". The advice columnist is saying he loves her like a family member, which of course you're not gonna have sex with someone if you feel that way about them. They're both focused on the fact he doesn't love her like a lover, which makes any sort of passionate sexy marriage impossible. They'd have to fix that issue before fixing the other one. It's not excellent well thought out detailed advice because it's an advice column. They never are that good. And they are often canned sappy emotional replies. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Quote Why is it a contest of who'd be most bothered by it? Because the one who's more bothered is the one who eventually does something to change the situation - like have an affair. Quote she did mention she was saddened by the lack of sex...that is at the very least a good indicator that she has not been liking the situation. Not enough to try to change it though, by every indication. She writes as though it somehow happened... nothing to do with her. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Quote The post implies to me that both want sex, but he doesn't want it with her, since he's not "in love" with her and probably views her more like a friend/relative, which makes sex awkward. Her general passivity and tbh, gormlessness about her relationship, implies to me that she wasn't too bothered about sex tailing off initially, he (like all partners of non-sexual people) got used to seeing her as something other than a sexual partner, and it drifted. Given he was motivated enough to go out and find an affair partner, I really doubt he didn't make any effort to sort out their relationship, but clearly failed. So after 14 years, he had an affair and fell in love. Now her marriage and family is under threat, suddenly his wife is looking for a solution. We don't have much to go on, it's true, but the sexuals on this thread have seen this pattern on here, on other DeadBedroom forums, and in some ways in their own lives, and we recognise how our partners could well characterise it. She's sad now about the lack of sex because of the consequences. She clearly wasn't that sad for 20 years or she'd have done something about it. Link to post Share on other sites
NoLongerActive1234 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: Because the one who's more bothered is the one who eventually does something to change the situation - like have an affair. Not enough to try to change it though, by every indication. She writes as though it somehow happened... nothing to do with her. 1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said: Her general passivity and tbh, gormlessness about her relationship, implies to me that she wasn't too bothered about sex tailing off initially, he (like all partners of non-sexual people) got used to seeing her as something other than a sexual partner, and it drifted. Given he was motivated enough to go out and find an affair partner, I really doubt he didn't make any effort to sort out their relationship, but clearly failed. So after 14 years, he had an affair and fell in love. Now her marriage and family is under threat, suddenly his wife is looking for a solution. We don't have much to go on, it's true, but the sexuals on this thread have seen this pattern on here, on other DeadBedroom forums, and in some ways in their own lives, and we recognise how our partners could well characterise it. She's sad now about the lack of sex because of the consequences. She clearly wasn't that sad for 20 years or she'd have done something about it. 3 I don't think that is true at all, people handle things differently. She could be more bothered than him about their lack of sex but would do anything to keep her promise of marriage for example, or to protect her kids. How I view it is that she is the one who wanted sex and are in love with her husband but he sees her as family and has for a long while. People submit themselves to hard situations for tons of reasons. Besides him "doing" something about it....having an affair isn't doing anything productive whatsoever and it is insanely selfish. It also isn't good for him either, how would he think that'd solve anything? If one could accuse her of being passive then he is just as passive by not taking the decision of divorcing her and not only that but he is dumb enough too by having sex with someone else before he ends their marriage. Something that will bring pain to his wife and children and himself. So instead of actually reading the little information available and what is actually said you decide to read between the lines and make up ideas about her husband as the poor suffering one....Don't you think you are projecting too much here? You say as if you can correctly "interpret" this situation better than others here because you are a sexual who has been through a relationship with an asexual. Well I am a sexual person and I don't see what you're seeing. In my relationship, I might be the one to lack the desire and intimacy and sometimes my partner might be on the other end. This does happen even in relationships between sexuals you know where one party might not be getting their needs met and it doesn't have to even be about sex. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 43 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: Her general passivity and tbh, gormlessness about her relationship, implies to me that she wasn't too bothered about sex tailing off initially, he (like all partners of non-sexual people) got used to seeing her as something other than a sexual partner, and it drifted. Given he was motivated enough to go out and find an affair partner, I really doubt he didn't make any effort to sort out their relationship, but clearly failed. So after 14 years, he had an affair and fell in love. Now her marriage and family is under threat, suddenly his wife is looking for a solution. We don't have much to go on, it's true, but the sexuals on this thread have seen this pattern on here, on other DeadBedroom forums, and in some ways in their own lives, and we recognise how our partners could well characterise it. She's sad now about the lack of sex because of the consequences. She clearly wasn't that sad for 20 years or she'd have done something about it. Or... he lost his passion for her, like the wife in the RL example I gave was going through and no matter what she did, he wouldn't and she stayed, sad but unwilling to break up their family over it. We really can't know, because we have no details. However, most asexual people who post about their mixed relationships either focus on the sex part because it's a big issue, or they ignore it completely because they don't find it important. I don't see a non-sexual partner going "Sadly, we haven't had sex in 20 years". There really isn't any way of knowing who stopped the sex, or who tried what, because they didn't say much on it. Which, isn't unusual, I've never heard someone focus on the lack of sex when they have been cheated on, they're focused on the cheating. Usually, in those conversations I've heard/had, the sex between them has to be asked about to even learn about it. You're trying to put your own details onto a different person's story with little information. But, the advice was if you want it to work out, you need to find a way to rekindle a passionate, loving marriage. Which, implies rekindling a romantic/sexual feeling from him to her. So, they did address it, just in the generic relationship advice columnist way. They can't really give much sexual content in a newspaper, anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
roland.o Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Is anyone else reminded of the background story in the movie "Saving Grace"? Except for the husband not being deceased, of course. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0195234/ Link to post Share on other sites
Traveler40 Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Having read through the responses on this thread, I can’t help but feel the forest is lost as everyone appears so focused on the trees.... When 2 people are married for 25 years and do not have sex for the back 20 of them, the why is less important at this point and likely won’t ever be solved. The elephant IS the lack of sex - a fundamental element in most marriages. Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 8 hours ago, Telecaster68 said: You pretty much have to be asexual to not put 'affair' and 'lack of marital sex' together. OK, Tele, let's not conflate "asexual" with "stupid". Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 I'm honestly not. But look at the posts on this thread. I can't imagine anywhere other than AVEN where the link between not having sex for twenty years and having an affair would be questioned. Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: I'm honestly not. But look at the posts on this thread. I can't imagine anywhere other than AVEN where the link between not having sex for twenty years and having an affair would be questioned. You're conflating the posts on this thread with AVEN, and then AVEN with asexuals. I'm an asexual, I'm on AVEN, but I'm Sally, and I don't question the link. You don't know how many people are reading this thread and not commenting, nor how many people who are not reading this thread. TLDR: don't stereotype. Link to post Share on other sites
Traveler40 Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Sally said: You don't know how many people are reading this thread and not commenting, nor how many people who are not reading this thread. Sorry to point this out Sally - it’s with good intention: We do know how many are generally reading this thread as the tally is posted, and “...nor how many who are not reading this thread” doesn’t actually make sense. The viewpoint divide is clear, but as a sexual myself, it’s my opinion that @Telecaster68 has carried the sexual POV quite well. Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 This is well-intentioned also: We actually don't know how many asexuals are either reading or not reading this thread, because the count doesn't differentiate between sexuals and asexuals. I made it plain I was talking about asexuals, since Tele's comment was about asexuals. Link to post Share on other sites
Alejandrogynous Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 For the record, I'm asexual and I definitely see the link between no sex in a relationship and an affair. The only part I objected to was the assumption that it's the wife's fault they stopped having sex and that she's completely oblivious to the fact or its effects. Maybe the wife did stop wanting sex. Maybe the husband fell out of love after the first few years and started finding sex elsewhere, and this last affair is the only one the wife knows about. We don't know, which is the point. But that's just my "asexual POV", if you can make it out from all the way across this viewpoint divide. Link to post Share on other sites
Traveler40 Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 Yep, I hear you @Alejandrogynous from across the viewpoint ocean...peace! Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Quote Having read through the responses on this thread, I can’t help but feel the forest is lost as everyone appears so focused on the trees.... It would help if you were less vague on your posts and pointed out exactly what it was you take issue with, because it's still not clear. The person who wrote in specifically mentioned "lack of sex for 20 years" as a potential problem, hence the sadness. What exactly do you expect out of the columnist? "Oh, yeah, that lack of sex for 20 years is a real problem"? Link to post Share on other sites
Traveler40 Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 Apologies @Philip027, but there are no words. I can’t break it down as it truly speaks for itself, and I really don’t want to go around the mulberry bush on it. It’s been hashed out quite thoroughly today, and the take away seems to be perspective. Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Well, if you just look around this thread you've made, you'd know it isn't as self-apparent as you seem to think it is. I am not the only one here with questions. Arguments with no substance aren't real arguments. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Alejandrogynous said: For the record, I'm asexual and I definitely see the link between no sex in a relationship and an affair. The only part I objected to was the assumption that it's the wife's fault they stopped having sex and that she's completely oblivious to the fact or its effects. Maybe the wife did stop wanting sex. Maybe the husband fell out of love after the first few years and started finding sex elsewhere, and this last affair is the only one the wife knows about. We don't know, which is the point. But that's just my "asexual POV", if you can make it out from all the way across this viewpoint divide. I'm not asexual and I object to the same points. We can't know who was "at fault" for the lack of sex, or who tried what, from a single line of "sadly we haven't had sex in 20 years". And the columnist, being in a public newspaper that needs to be at least mostly family friendly can't really start recommending toys and such to try to spice things up. So, she just says to try to rekindle a passionate love (other words: rekindle a sexual/romantic relationship) with him if you want him to be in love with you again. And that it will take both sides trying for it to be successful. So, I'm not entirely sure what sort of response a short newspaper advice column is meant to give, when they have to also remain G-PG. Link to post Share on other sites
MrDane Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 If I where Amy “Dear Miserable 20 years without sex is usually a sign that something else is wrong in a marriage. What made it disappear, and how did that affect you? Are you intimate and showing your love in other ways? I think you should sit down and quietly talk this through and maybe the talk can shine a ligth on both what has happened and what possibillities that lays in front of you. Love Amy ps tell your kids to back the fuck up and let you and him decide what is the best solution” Link to post Share on other sites
NoLongerActive1234 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 8 hours ago, Telecaster68 said: I'm honestly not. But look at the posts on this thread. I can't imagine anywhere other than AVEN where the link between not having sex for twenty years and having an affair would be questioned. It's not an 'asexual vs sexual' perspective thing it's a 'people who are displeased because there is a lack of sexlife in their relationship vs people who are either satisified with their sex life or content without one' perspective thing. If your sexul needs are not met such as the case being together with an asexual or if two people have a mismatch in libido for example of course the 'No Sex, No Sex' is going to be the only thing that stands out. Link to post Share on other sites
Treesarepretty Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 This reminds me of the situation with Cynthia's Wife, In there, there was no sex for 25 years--at the husband's insistance--and the husband had 2 affairs. It is quite possible that more affairs were going on in the marriages of both Cynthia's Wife and Miserable and that that is the real cause of the lack of intimacy in both cases. I hold with @MrDane, @Telecaster68, and @Traveler40that Amy's refusal to ask questions about the whole thing--especially the lack of sex--seems like a refusal to do her job. Even giving her the benefit of the doubt that she wanted to stay "family friendly," there is the basic logic that the only way for your patients to know which information you need is if they already have the situation all figured out. If they did have it figured out, why would they be writing in the first place? Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 The creativity of the convoluted theories required to conclude that the husband affair wasn't the result of 14 years of his wife not wanting to have sex is really quite impressive. The thread referenced above is about a man who was a secret crossdresser for 36 years, had a couple of long term affairs and then claimed he was asexual. Miserable's husband started an affair after 14 years of no sex with his wife, and has simply fallen out of love with his wife and in love with the woman he's having sex with. It's really, really simple. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 17 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: ... Miserable's husband started an affair ... and in love with the woman he's having sex with... English is not my first language - but when Miserable says, “My husband had an affair”, does that not mean the affair has ended? Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 It's confused - the tense implies it's over, but the rest of the text implies he still has the emotional connection: Quote He says this other woman is the love of his life and he will never not love her. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said: ... It's really, really simple. 1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said: It's confused - ... Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Desperate. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 @Telecaster68 Well wishes, I have read some of your story - very difficult situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Thanks. I wonder if a small wording change would make the situation more comprehensible to some? Quote Dear Amy: My husband had an affair with another woman for more than six years. We’ve been married more than 25 years and I’m sad to say that we haven’t had a conversation for almost 20 years. He says this other woman is the love of his life and he will never not love her. He’s also said that he loves me but is not “in love” with me. Amy, what does that mean? After he said this to me, I told our adult children. They told him that if he leaves me, they will have no contact with him. I’m miserable. I feel he’s only here because of what the kids said. What should I do? — Miserable Fourteen years with no conversations and the only woman wonders starts wondering what the problem is only after her husband starts talking to someone else... To pre-empt the inevitable 'but conversations aren't sex, they're far more important' responses: I'd say that to most people, sex and conversations are of roughly equal importance in a relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
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