Browncoat10 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 55 minutes ago, fuzzipueo said: not because he's running and hiding from someone In his defence, he's running and hiding from them so he doesn't have to "become a monster" (that passage from the book is great by the way) to defeat them. That is his last resort. 57 minutes ago, fuzzipueo said: The Family only finds out after the Doctor's essentially become human that there's time tech on Earth and they, being the scavengers they are sense an opportunity ... That's true, but Joan Redfern (Jessica Hynes being awesome) has the last word on that of you remember. She fell in love with John Smith, he goes back to being the Doctor, he thinks he can swan in and try and be her friend, he invites her to travel with him... and she says, "Answer me this, just, once question, that's all. If the Doctor had never visited us, never chosen this place, on a whim... would anyone here have died?" 10 thinks he can get away with stuff, but RTD knows he can't. That would be wrong, for the character and the narrative. I like that about 10 a lot - he's the cleverest person in the room, but if he starts acting smugly or insensitively, someone else will get the last word. Link to post Share on other sites
fuzzipueo Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 26 minutes ago, Browncoat10 said: That's true, but Joan Redfern (Jessica Hynes being awesome) has the last word on that of you remember. She fell in love with John Smith, he goes back to being the Doctor, he thinks he can swan in and try and be her friend, he invites her to travel with him... and she says, "Answer me this, just, once question, that's all. If the Doctor had never visited us, never chosen this place, on a whim... would anyone here have died?" I think she has a similar reaction in the book but it's been long enough since I last read it, I don't remember exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
fuzzipueo Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, Browncoat10 said: 1 hour ago, fuzzipueo said: not because he's running and hiding from someone In his defence, he's running and hiding from them so he doesn't have to "become a monster" (that passage from the book is great by the way) to defeat them. That is his last resort. Ah, but I was referring to the book, not the episodes. The writers changed the reasoning for his going into hiding in the show and, I suspect, to introduce the Chameleon Arch so they could later explain the Master's reemergence. In the book, the Doctor undergoes the change purely to slake his curiosity. Link to post Share on other sites
Browncoat10 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 minute ago, fuzzipueo said: Ah, but I was referring to the book, not the episodes. The writers changed the reasoning for his going into hiding in the show and, I suspect, to introduce the Chameleon Arch so they could later explain the Master's reemergence. In the book, the Doctor undergoes the change purely to slake his curiosity. Dammit, just reread your post. So you were. It does make sense from the TV writers' point of view to change the reasoning a bit, partly for the Chameleon Arch stuff, but also because it's obviously for a different audience than the book was. I know what you mean about the reasoning in the book, just plain old curiosity. It is very Doctor. Or 7th Doctor anyway. And it is great. Like I say, I love them both. I guess because they are so different, I've pretty much separated them from each other in my mind. To me now they're two very different Doctor Who stories, that happen to have a similar starting premise. And each has its own merits. Link to post Share on other sites
Pramana Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I'm thinking of making an effort to get back into Doctor Who. Haven't watched since the mid-2000s, when I found it became too saccharine. Link to post Share on other sites
fuzzipueo Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Pramana said: I'm thinking of making an effort to get back into Doctor Who. Haven't watched since the mid-2000s, when I found it became too saccharine. You might really appreciate 12 then. He's not a hugger and he avoids the romance stuff like the plague. LOL! Link to post Share on other sites
Browncoat10 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 57 minutes ago, Pramana said: I'm thinking of making an effort to get back into Doctor Who. Haven't watched since the mid-2000s, when I found it became too saccharine. It only came back in the mid-2000s! Either way, you're referring to the RTD era I think. Which I love because of the human, relationship-y stuff, but post 2010 there's definitely less of an emphasis on that, so you might like it. Link to post Share on other sites
Adachiku Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I’m so much looking forward to the Chris Chibnall run - actually, I think I’m already having overly high expectations. I love his work on Torchwood (yes, even the Cyberwoman episode that everyone seems to hate - but I’m a Ianto girl...), I loved Broadchurch, so I’m confident he can pull this off and make DW understandable and enjoyable again. Plus I think he’s trying the US writers’ room concept, so I hope something good comes of that as well (including more prominent female voices, not sure how many women he’s got on the writers’ team) @Browncoat10 I meant the most recent 12 finale with the Mondasian cybermen. It started off really cool (the old cybermen are so creepy), but it soon lost its drive (Bill watches the Doctor do everything in very slow motion *yawn*) and then it was just the Doctor saying lots of very (supposedly) meaningful things that I didn’t care about at all. And of course there was a deus ex machina save for Bill in the end. Okay, John Simm was cool, but he couldn’t save the episode either. Link to post Share on other sites
Browncoat10 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 18 hours ago, Adachiku said: I’m so much looking forward to the Chris Chibnall run - actually, I think I’m already having overly high expectations. I love his work on Torchwood (yes, even the Cyberwoman episode that everyone seems to hate - but I’m a Ianto girl...), I loved Broadchurch, so I’m confident he can pull this off and make DW understandable and enjoyable again. Plus I think he’s trying the US writers’ room concept, so I hope something good comes of that as well (including more prominent female voices, not sure how many women he’s got on the writers’ team) I'm trying to lower my expectations, to reduce disappointment! It's weird that I'm also getting overly high expectations given that I don't love a lot of stuff he's done, as I said. Particularly the Cyberwoman episode! Each to their own I guess. I am in favour of the US writers' room concept though, definitely. The vast majority of my favourite dramas in the last several years have all been American. Britain still has the best comedies though Yeah, I hope he's got some decent female representation this time. Both RTD and Moffat failed pretty spectacularly on that front. 18 hours ago, Adachiku said: I meant the most recent 12 finale with the Mondasian cybermen. It started off really cool (the old cybermen are so creepy), but it soon lost its drive (Bill watches the Doctor do everything in very slow motion *yawn*) and then it was just the Doctor saying lots of very (supposedly) meaningful things that I didn’t care about at all. And of course there was a deus ex machina save for Bill in the end. Okay, John Simm was cool, but he couldn’t save the episode either. As with almost every two parter, the first part was definitely better than the second part. I guess it's much easier to create a cool set-up than have to tie it all up neatly in part two. But I did actually like part two anyway. Mind you, I don't remember any slow motion. Maybe I blanked it from my memory. And I sort of feel obliged to forgive the deus ex machina, seeing as I've forgiven RTD for it a million times as well. Link to post Share on other sites
fuzzipueo Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Browncoat10 said: 23 hours ago, Adachiku said: I meant the most recent 12 finale with the Mondasian cybermen. It started off really cool (the old cybermen are so creepy), but it soon lost its drive (Bill watches the Doctor do everything in very slow motion *yawn*) and then it was just the Doctor saying lots of very (supposedly) meaningful things that I didn’t care about at all. And of course there was a deus ex machina save for Bill in the end. Okay, John Simm was cool, but he couldn’t save the episode either. As with almost every two parter, the first part was definitely better than the second part. I guess it's much easier to create a cool set-up than have to tie it all up neatly in part two. But I did actually like part two anyway. Mind you, I don't remember any slow motion. Maybe I blanked it from my memory. And I sort of feel obliged to forgive the deus ex machina, seeing as I've forgiven RTD for it a million times as well. I think Adachiku is referring to the time dilation between the front of the ship, which is closest to the event horizon of the black hole and, is moving at a faster speed (but doesn't seem so to Bill's eyes or the TV screen), and the rest of the ship, which is moving more slowly, which is why the Cybermen are evolving as quickly as they seem (relatively). As they move forward through the ship, they move more quickly. We're talking actual generations, of course. The writers actually did their homework on how a black hole works, by the way, so they deserve kudos for that! What disappointed me was the jump from the Mondasian Cybermen to the Pete's World versions - totally skipping the actual scary Cybermen of the 70s and 80s... Link to post Share on other sites
Browncoat10 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 30 minutes ago, fuzzipueo said: What disappointed me was the jump from the Mondasian Cybermen to the Pete's World versions - totally skipping the actual scary Cybermen of the 70s and 80s... I dunno, the modern Mondasian design (seems like a contradictory phrase, but you know what I mean!) looked about as creepy as a Cyberman - which is inherently not very creepy - can. I thought so anyway. And the time dilation - that makes sense. I can see how it would be frustrating, but both ends of the ship had something interesting going on, so I never lost patience with it. And it was a nice conceit. Link to post Share on other sites
SpaceDustbin Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 18 hours ago, Browncoat10 said: I'm trying to lower my expectations, to reduce disappointment! That's how I've been watching the past few seasons I was very invested in the show in the RTD run, and was seriously into the Big Finish audios, but wasn't too impressed with season 5 and 6, and then decided to maybe let go of the show 'emotionally' and just enjoy it for what it is (if not too many plots and tropes are repeated that is.. ) That said, I'm very curious to the new season + showrunner + Doctor Link to post Share on other sites
Browncoat10 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 2 hours ago, SpaceDustbin said: I was very invested in the show in the RTD run, and was seriously into the Big Finish audios, but wasn't too impressed with season 5 and 6, and then decided to maybe let go of the show 'emotionally' and just enjoy it for what it is I was hugely invested in the RTD run, yeah. And then, like you, I wasn't that impressed with series 5 or 6 (though each has some pretty great episodes actually*), so I told myself to stop getting hyped for every new series. And every year, I was doing a great job of that, and then I'd watch the trailer for the new series, and my hype would just go into overdrive! Can't help it. It's infuriating. I'm just too in love with this show, even though I haven't really loved it since 2009. * Amy's Choice and Vincent and the Doctor from series 5 are both great, and I think The Doctor's Wife from series 6 might be my favourite episode from the whole Smith (if not Moffat) era. Link to post Share on other sites
Adachiku Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Anybody else dislike the Moffat era cybermen? I call them “egg heads” and I think they’re the least creepy of all the cybermen designs. I hope Chibnall decides to redo them again. Or maybe even pause the Cybermen and Daleks and give us a monster we haven’t seen reimagined yet. Like the giant moth thing from the first (?) Doctor’s run. Or a Weevil from Torchwood 😁 Link to post Share on other sites
Browncoat10 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 The Moffat-era Cybermen looked like Iron Men! Don't get me wrong, I love Iron Man, but yeah, definitely wrong for Doctor Who. And the Daleks could do with a break. Maybe the Cybermen too. I wouldn't even mind if it was all new monsters next series, and no classic ones reimagined. Link to post Share on other sites
fuzzipueo Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 On 3/23/2018 at 3:34 PM, Adachiku said: Or maybe even pause the Cybermen and Daleks and give us a monster we haven’t seen reimagined yet. Like the giant moth thing from the first (?) Doctor’s run. Or a Weevil from Torchwood 😁 Menoptera and Zarbi. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.