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IronHamster

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15 minutes ago, James121 said:

A child who has had parents who got divorced has no place in being able to say how their dad felt is what I said. You are a very sly individual who reads what you want to read. It just doesn’t wash I’m afraid.

The topic of discussion was divorce, not "what it feels like to be a father who gets divorced and loses custody of their children". Now put those goalposts down.

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3 hours ago, GLRDT said:

ohhh! I still don't know if I agree that it's an irrefutable fact because it really depends how the situation is set up, but I'm sorry I missed the detail about how the children live with the ex partner and only that partner. My story refers to living with both my parents fairly equally per week and they made sure to live in houses near each other so it wouldn't be as difficult for my sister and I.  My story is a different type of situation. Oops!

Ok that’s absolutely fine but to be very clear, the situation you have just described above is very unusual. It’s good don’t get me wrong but not the common dynamics of a split family/separation.

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3 hours ago, Camicon said:

The topic of discussion was divorce, not "what it feels like to be a father who gets divorced and loses custody of their children". Now put those goalposts down.

Wrong again (this is getting tiring now). My posts were very clear in that I didn’t believe it was fair to assume that ironhamster should ‘just’ leave his wife. There is no ‘just’ about it. My posts put a different angle on this because I don’t believe that ‘just’ leaving will give him anything like the relationship he would have with his kids. So as you can see (I hope^^on^^this^^occasion^^you^^can^^see)it’s not just about divorce it’s also about divorce not being a simple option for someone to ‘just’ go ahead with.

As for goalposts, I’ve been waving at you from the goalposts all along and you seem to spinning yourself round and around, making yourself dizzy and I think you may have confused your own dizziness with movement of the goalposts. I’m still here though, they haven’t moved. He you go...a little wave from the goalpost that hasn’t moved 👋 

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1 minute ago, James121 said:

Wrong again (this is getting tiring now). My posts were very clear in that I didn’t believe it was fair to assume that ironhamster should ‘just’ leave his wife. There is no ‘just’ about it. My posts put a different angle on this because I don’t believe that ‘just’ leaving will give him anything like the relationship he would have with his kids. So as you can see (I hope^^on^^this^^occasion^^you^^can^^see)it’s not just about divorce it’s also about divorce not being a simple option for someone to ‘just’ go ahead with.

As for goalposts, I’ve been waving at you from the goalposts all along and you seem to spinning yourself round and around, making yourself dizzy and I think you may have confused your own dizziness with movement of the goalposts. I’m still here though, they haven’t moved. He you go...a little wave from the goalpost that hasn’t moved 👋 

Nobody ever said that divorce was simple. The truth remains, however, that if a married person wants to pursue a sexual relationship with someone other than their wife, without breaking their marriage vows, then they need to end the marriage. The only legal option the OP has to end their marriage is by getting a divorce.

 

Fair or not, that's the reality.  And your continued fear mongering - this fantasy you've constructed, where a man who gets a divorce is forced to walk away from his children and only see them every once in a while - is both unhelpful and an attempt to shift the conversation away from the OP's actions and options towards your own theorycraft speculation about the future of a person we know next to nothing about. It also let's you claim that I have no standing to discuss something that I've lived through, because my experience doesn't match the one you've invented. Which is a shitty thing to do, by the by.

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9 minutes ago, Camicon said:

Nobody ever said that divorce was simple. The truth remains, however, that if a married person wants to pursue a sexual relationship with someone other than their wife, without breaking their marriage vows, then they need to end the marriage. The only legal option the OP has to end their marriage is by getting a divorce.

 

Fair or not, that's the reality.  And your continued fear mongering - this fantasy you've constructed, where a man who gets a divorce is forced to walk away from his children and only see them every once in a while - is both unhelpful and an attempt to shift the conversation away from the OP's actions and options towards your own theorycraft speculation about the future of a person we know next to nothing about. It also let's you claim that I have no standing to discuss something that I've lived through, because my experience doesn't match the one you've invented. Which is a shitty thing to do, by the by.

Wow lots of big words. I wondered why it had taken you a while to respond but using google and a thesaurus is time consuming. Ok, so you have said ironhamster wants to “pursue a sexual relationship with someone other than their wife”. I don’t read it like that. I read it like this...ironhamster wants to pursue a sexual relationship. Full stop. No further. No need to go on. Stop right there. He doesn’t have a sexual relationship. His wife won’t participate in one. His wife stopped having sex with him after she got the babies she wanted! And there is no scaremongering. Sometimes I read your posts and think, this person is quite clever but then you say things like that. It is a fact, an absolute fact that the person who leaves and is not the resident parent loses a lot of the closeness they would have had as the resident parent. It happens to different degrees but it is a fact.  Don’t kid yourself. You are kidding no one else! 

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4 minutes ago, James121 said:

Wow lots of big words. I wondered why it had taken you a while to respond but using google and a thesaurus is time consuming. Ok, so you have said ironhamster wants to “pursue a sexual relationship with someone other than their wife”. I don’t read it like that. I read it like this...ironhamster wants to pursue a sexual relationship. Full stop. No further. No need to go on. Stop right there. He doesn’t have a sexual relationship. His wife won’t participate in one. His wife stopped having sex with him after she got the babies she wanted! And there is no scaremongering. Sometimes I read your posts and think, this person is quite clever but then you say things like that. It is a fact, an absolute fact that the person who leaves and is not the resident parent loses a lot of the closeness they would have had as the resident parent. It happens to different degrees but it is a fact.  Don’t kid yourself. You are kidding no one else! 

I took time because I am careful with my words. And your sniping is both unnecessary and, again, a shitty thing to do. Please stop.

 

And the person who files for divorce is not required to "leave"; you seem to have a very warped view of how divorce works. When the children caught up in a divorce are of an age old enough to decide how they split their time between their parents (which, from what we know of the timeline, Ironhamster's kids are) the court allows the children to make their own decision. Given that Ironhamster has described his older children as being "cool" with his cheating on their mother he shouldn't need to worry about them choosing to spend time with their mother over him. If you're going to waste time speculating then at least do so with all the available information.

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4 minutes ago, Camicon said:

I took time because I am careful with my words. And your sniping is both unnecessary and, again, a shitty thing to do. Please stop.

 

And the person who files for divorce is not required to "leave"; you seem to have a very warped view of how divorce works. When the children caught up in a divorce are of an age old enough to decide how they split their time between their parents (which, from what we know of the timeline, Ironhamster's kids are) the court allows the children to make their own decision. Given that Ironhamster has described his older children as being "cool" with his cheating on their mother he shouldn't need to worry about them choosing to spend time with their mother over him. If you're going to waste time speculating then at least do so with all the available information.

My sniping? Who was the one who started the ‘moving goalposts’ rubbish?

When the children are old enough they can choose how they split their time. But if they are young when the split happens who they gonna be closer to? Resident parent or parent they saw every other weekend and in the holidays? That’s an easy one to answer. So when they make their choice what they going to choose?  

If the split takes place later, the law dictates that Mum is the preferred resident parent (I can only speak of th UK where I live).  

So let’s lay out cards down on the table. My wife is from a split family. Lived with Mum and as a result is much closer to Mum than dad. Her sister, lived with Mum and not dad. She is also closer to her Mum. I’m from a split family (divorced parents). Exact same result as my wife. Closer to Mum then dad. Interestingly, my brother went and lived with my dad, he was closer to dad then Mum. Hmmm common theme occurring here but one that you won’t accept. My dad married again to a woman with children already. They were my step siblings... They were closer to their Mum (whom they lived with) than their dad (who they did not). I have a failed relationship. My children are closer to their Mum (whom they live with) then me. No matter how hard I try, time is what creates the bond and resident parent gets the time. So I have a pretty extensive experience of divorce and split families. Please enlighten me with how you repeatedly know this to be.......was it scaremongering you said? 

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10 minutes ago, James121 said:

My sniping? Who was the one who started the ‘moving goalposts’ rubbish?

You took a conversation about the OP's options and tried to turn it into half-baked speculation about what happens when people get divorced. That is called "moving the goalposts": you tried to change the topic of conversation without responding or conceding to the original topic. I was describing something you did.

 

You, on the other hand dismissed a traumatic time in my life ("Do you have children, have you been divorced and consequently do they now live with your ex partner? If you are exactly as I have just asked you have no place in giving an opinion") and then cast aspersions on my intelligence ("Wow lots of big words. I wondered why it had taken you a while to respond but using google and a thesaurus is time consuming"). I'm not exactly sure why you felt it appropriate to say those things, but I did not appreciate it in the slightest.

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7 minutes ago, Camicon said:

You took a conversation about the OP's options and tried to turn it into half-baked speculation about what happens when people get divorced. That is called "moving the goalposts": you tried to change the topic of conversation without responding or conceding to the original topic. I was describing something you did.

 

You, on the other hand dismissed a traumatic time in my life ("Do you have children, have you been divorced and consequently do they now live with your ex partner? If you are exactly as I have just asked you have no place in giving an opinion") and then cast aspersions on my intelligence ("Wow lots of big words. I wondered why it had taken you a while to respond but using google and a thesaurus is time consuming"). I'm not exactly sure why you felt it appropriate to say those things, but I did not appreciate it in the slightest.

Because you claim that I have changed the subject matter (I have not) I have simply brought a new perspective to ironhamster’s potential decision making. You do not like what I have had to say and thus dismiss it as changing the subject, moving the goalposts and so on and then you have the nerve to call my life experience as half baked speculation before saying I don’t appreciate what you said. Out of the 2 of us, who engaged who in conversation. I merely responded to ironhamster’s post and you pounced and tried to shoot my opinion down. Now we find ourselves where I have bitten back with strong opinions based of firm life experiences and we are reduced to I don’t appreciate that. 

 

Can you just confirm, what trauma you have been through that I simply dismissed please?

 

 

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8 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

Hold my tea, I'm gonna show you something:

 

 

I think it is reasonable to have the expectations of marital intimacy that at least match premarital intimacy.  

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37 minutes ago, James121 said:

Because you claim that I have changed the subject matter (I have not) I have simply brought a new perspective to ironhamster’s potential decision making. You do not like what I have had to say and thus dismiss it as changing the subject, moving the goalposts and so on and then you have the nerve to call my life experience as half baked speculation before saying I don’t appreciate what you said. Out of the 2 of us, who engaged who in conversation. I merely responded to ironhamster’s post and you pounced and tried to shoot my opinion down. Now we find ourselves where I have bitten back with strong opinions based of firm life experiences and we are reduced to I don’t appreciate that. 

 

Can you just confirm, what trauma you have been through that I simply dismissed please?

 

 

The OP's options, and your opinion on how divorces shake out, are two different topics. Related, but different. Moving on to the latter without concluding the former is called "shifting the goalposts". And yes, I called the scenario you spun half-baked speculation, because you were speculating about what would happen to the OP if he filed for divorce without knowing all the facts of the OP's situation; even overlooking information that the OP already gave.

 

When someone starts treading the line between vigorous conversation and personal attacks, I let them know. It's more a courtesy to the other poster than anything, because most respectable forums don't look kindly on personal attacks, but I find it also helps keep things civil and on track more often than not.

 

And you dismissed my experience of my parents being divorced. Multiple times, actually, but I helpfully quoted the first instance in my prior post. Though I will always contend that my parents divorcing was better than living in a toxic household, it was still a traumatic experience; sometimes, both options suck, and one just sucks less. Such is often the case when children are living with parents that should probably separate. Turns out that life isn't fair.

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4 minutes ago, Camicon said:

The OP's options, and your opinion on how divorces shake out, are two different topics. Related, but different. Moving on to the latter without concluding the former is called "shifting the goalposts". And yes, I called the scenario you spun half-baked speculation, because you were speculating about what would happen to the OP if he filed for divorce without knowing all the facts of the OP's situation; even overlooking information that the OP already gave.

 

When someone starts treading the line between vigorous conversation and personal attacks, I let them know. It's more a courtesy to the other poster than anything, because most respectable forums don't look kindly on personal attacks, but I find it also helps keep things civil and on track more often than not.

 

And you dismissed my experience of my parents being divorced. Multiple times, actually, but I helpfully quoted the first instance in my prior post. Though I will always contend that my parents divorcing was better than living in a toxic household, it was still a traumatic experience; sometimes, both options suck, and one just sucks less. Such is often the case when children are living with parents that should probably separate. Turns out that life isn't fair.

Given your experience of trauma, I am highly surprised that your recommendation is for ironhamster to leave his marriage. Clearly he would risk causing his own children a significantly traumatic experience too. 

Which was my point wasn’t it?

There is no such thing as ‘just’ leave.

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3 hours ago, James121 said:

Given your experience of trauma, I am highly surprised that your recommendation is for ironhamster to leave his marriage. Clearly he would risk causing his own children a significantly traumatic experience too. 

Which was my point wasn’t it?

There is no such thing as ‘just’ leave.

Did you ignore the last paragraph of my post?

 

Sometimes both options suck. Having to decide between forcing your kids to live in a toxic household, or live through a divorce, sucks. That's a decision with no good options, only a less bad option. I hold that an amicable divorce sucks less than living in a toxic household, because I have contended with both.

 

Life isn't fair, and sometimes we are quite rudely reminded of that fact.

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10 hours ago, James121 said:
  On 07/12/2017 at 7:23 AM,IronHamster said:

Faithfulness means she fucks me once every day at minimum, for over an hour three times a week at minimum, and all night long once a week at minimum.  Faithfulness is about meeting expectations.  She never faithfully executed her responsibilities as a sexual mate.  She offered only a minimum to keep hope alive while she enjoyed the social and economic and emotional benefits of being with me.  

 

 

 

Yes....clearly that expectation is too much. I can’t defend that.

My partner and I are both hypersexual with each other, but even he (as a 20 year old male) would crawl into a corner and hide if I told him I expected that much sex from him :P

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4 hours ago, Camicon said:

Did you ignore the last paragraph of my post?

 

Sometimes both options suck. Having to decide between forcing your kids to live in a toxic household, or live through a divorce, sucks. That's a decision with no good options, only a less bad options. I hold that an amicable divorce sucks less than living in a toxic household, because I have contended with both.

 

Life isn't fair, and sometimes we are quite rudely reminded of that fact.

Camicon,

 

I was out for a few hours and it gave me a bit of distance from this thread.  And, it made me realize something.... (bear in mind that I've been supporting what you've written)

 

There were two things I realized:

 

1.  What bothers me about the OP isn't so much that he made the decision to cheat.  What bothers me is that he had OTHER OPTIONS that he never even mentioned that he tried BEFORE making his decision. 

          a.  Talk to his spouse.  Yes, he said that he did this, but we don't know WHAT or HOW 'it' was said.  For all we know, he could have simply laid down an ultimatum.

          b.  Talk to a clergyman.  He may not be "religious", but he DID spew off about how he thought his wife was "sinning" by not providing him with sex.

          c.  Masturbate.  Yup, not the greatest of solutions, but it's STILL a possibility.  Don't know if the OP does this or not.

          d.  Talk to a counselor.  Whether it be a marriage counselor, sex therapist or individual counselor.  He could have suggested this to his wife.

          e.  Talk to a counselor ALONE.  Did he TRY this? 

          f.  Read some self-help books.  There are some GREAT ones out there that deal with this very issue.  Did he TRY that? 

          g.  Use the internet.  Obviously he came to AVEN through this avenue.  But before he did, did he 'google' things like, "been in a sexless marriage for over 20 years.  What do I do? 

          h.  Anullment.  He suggested that he SHOULD have done this earlier in his marriage.  Why DIDN'T he? 

          I.  Separate.  Plenty of people decide to this at least on a temporary basis, until they can sort things out

          J.  Divorce.  Again, not the BEST option, but it's still an option. 

 

Instead he opted for 'k'.  To cheat.  I know that he'll probably say that he tried "everything".  But unless he HAS tried EVERYTHING I listed and then some, I wouldn't support his decision to cheat. 

 

2.  The OP wrote that getting blow jobs every day would be like giving a woman a rose every day.  Made me wonder........

 

Did the OP give his wife a rose every day before she was his wife? 

 

3.  While SOME people have no problem with vulgarities, I *personally* wouldn't like it if my husband referred to having sex or 'lovemaking' as "fucking" or "putting out".  Seems to reduce sex to something that has nothing to do with "bonding". He may not have said this TO HER, but if she overheard him saying this, or got the 'feeling' that that's ALL he sees sex as, she may be turned-off to his....attitude. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Camicon,

 

I was out for a few hours and it gave me a bit of distance from this thread.  And, it made me realize something.... (bear in mind that I've been supporting what you've written)

 

There were two things I realized:

 

1.  What bothers me about the OP isn't so much that he made the decision to cheat.  What bothers me is that he had OTHER OPTIONS that he never even mentioned that he tried BEFORE making his decision. 

          a.  Talk to his spouse.  Yes, he said that he did this, but we don't know WHAT or HOW 'it' was said.  For all we know, he could have simply laid down an ultimatum.

          b.  Talk to a clergyman.  He may not be "religious", but he DID spew off about how he thought his wife was "sinning" by not providing him with sex.

          c.  Masturbate.  Yup, not the greatest of solutions, but it's STILL a possibility.  Don't know if the OP does this or not.

          d.  Talk to a counselor.  Whether it be a marriage counselor, sex therapist or individual counselor.  He could have suggested this to his wife.

          e.  Talk to a counselor ALONE.  Did he TRY this? 

          f.  Read some self-help books.  There are some GREAT ones out there that deal with this very issue.  Did he TRY that? 

          g.  Use the internet.  Obviously he came to AVEN through this avenue.  But before he did, did he 'google' things like, "been in a sexless marriage for over 20 years.  What do I do? 

          h.  Anullment.  He suggested that he SHOULD have done this earlier in his marriage.  Why DIDN'T he? 

          I.  Separate.  Plenty of people decide to this at least on a temporary basis, until they can sort things out

          J.  Divorce.  Again, not the BEST option, but it's still an option. 

 

Instead he opted for 'k'.  To cheat.  I know that he'll probably say that he tried "everything".  But unless he HAS tried EVERYTHING I listed and then some, I wouldn't support his decision to cheat. 

 

2.  The OP wrote that getting blow jobs every day would be like giving a woman a rose every day.  Made me wonder........

 

Did the OP give his wife a rose every day before she was his wife? 

 

 

I was giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, that they had exhausted all other options (except for divorce) prior to cheating. Call it generous, call it foolish, I just didn't feel like getting into the nitty gritty of a relationship that the OP clearly doesn't want to be in (also, annulments are typically reserved for marriages that were "invalid" in some way, say if you unwittingly married a direct relative, or never consummated. I don't think this one would have qualified).

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12 hours ago, Camicon said:

given what we know of the timeline it is very possible that Ironhamster's wife did not know she was asexual before she got married, or before she had kids, for a variety of reasons. Go check around the site, there are plenty of people who went through exactly that

People generally know when they're not into things, no matter whether there's a term for it or not. Her (not) being aware of asexuality doesn't change the story one bit.

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23 minutes ago, Grinchmer said:

People generally know when they're not into things, no matter whether there's a term for it or not. Her (not) being aware of asexuality doesn't change the story one bit.

People can stay in denial for a long time if they think what they feel is somehow wrong and unhealthy.

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58 minutes ago, Grinchmer said:

People generally know when they're not into things, no matter whether there's a term for it or not. Her (not) being aware of asexuality doesn't change the story one bit.

People can think that there is something wrong with them, that they will grow out of it or into it, that they haven't met the right person, etc. There are innumerable reasons why someone might be unaware that they are asexual.

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7 hours ago, Camicon said:

Did you ignore the last paragraph of my post?

 

Sometimes both options suck. Having to decide between forcing your kids to live in a toxic household, or live through a divorce, sucks. That's a decision with no good options, only a less bad option. I hold that an amicable divorce sucks less than living in a toxic household, because I have contended with both.

 

Life isn't fair, and sometimes we are quite rudely reminded of that fact.

That is of course ‘assuming’ that it’s a toxic household. No I didn’t ignore you last paragraph, i just stand by the idea that there’s no such thing as just leave.

You seem to think I am rude (I get that impression anyway) but I have spoken to you in exactly the same way I have been spoken to. The difference is I don’t sit here complaining.

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8 hours ago, IronHamster said:

I think it is reasonable to have the expectations of marital intimacy that at least match premarital intimacy.  

Why yes. As long as the expectations are within reason.

 

16 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

Honestly? If my partner expected this much from me, I'd tell him to stay in the US and never come to see me again.

 

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32 minutes ago, James121 said:

That is of course ‘assuming’ that it’s a toxic household. No I didn’t ignore you last paragraph, i just stand by the idea that there’s no such thing as just leave.

You seem to think I am rude (I get that impression anyway) but I have spoken to you in exactly the same way I have been spoken to. The difference is I don’t sit here complaining.

If you had read my last paragraph, or the post you responded to, then you wouldn't be under the impression that I am bandying about the idea that divorce is as easy as "just leaving".

 

And now that you've resorted to pointing fingers and crying "you did it first" (without providing any evidence of such behaviour on my part), well, I'm done with you; I have no interest in talking with people that aren't going to engage with me in good faith.

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3 hours ago, vega57 said:

Camicon,

 

I was out for a few hours and it gave me a bit of distance from this thread.  And, it made me realize something.... (bear in mind that I've been supporting what you've written)

 

There were two things I realized:

 

1.  What bothers me about the OP isn't so much that he made the decision to cheat.  What bothers me is that he had OTHER OPTIONS that he never even mentioned that he tried BEFORE making his decision. 

          a.  Talk to his spouse.  Yes, he said that he did this, but we don't know WHAT or HOW 'it' was said.  For all we know, he could have simply laid down an ultimatum.

          b.  Talk to a clergyman.  He may not be "religious", but he DID spew off about how he thought his wife was "sinning" by not providing him with sex.

          c.  Masturbate.  Yup, not the greatest of solutions, but it's STILL a possibility.  Don't know if the OP does this or not.

          d.  Talk to a counselor.  Whether it be a marriage counselor, sex therapist or individual counselor.  He could have suggested this to his wife.

          e.  Talk to a counselor ALONE.  Did he TRY this? 

          f.  Read some self-help books.  There are some GREAT ones out there that deal with this very issue.  Did he TRY that? 

          g.  Use the internet.  Obviously he came to AVEN through this avenue.  But before he did, did he 'google' things like, "been in a sexless marriage for over 20 years.  What do I do? 

          h.  Anullment.  He suggested that he SHOULD have done this earlier in his marriage.  Why DIDN'T he? 

          I.  Separate.  Plenty of people decide to this at least on a temporary basis, until they can sort things out

          J.  Divorce.  Again, not the BEST option, but it's still an option. 

 

Instead he opted for 'k'.  To cheat.  I know that he'll probably say that he tried "everything".  But unless he HAS tried EVERYTHING I listed and then some, I wouldn't support his decision to cheat. 

 

2.  The OP wrote that getting blow jobs every day would be like giving a woman a rose every day.  Made me wonder........

 

Did the OP give his wife a rose every day before she was his wife? 

 

3.  While SOME people have no problem with vulgarities, I *personally* wouldn't like it if my husband referred to having sex or 'lovemaking' as "fucking" or "putting out".  Seems to reduce sex to something that has nothing to do with "bonding". He may not have said this TO HER, but if she overheard him saying this, or got the 'feeling' that that's ALL he sees sex as, she may be turned-off to his....attitude. 

 

 

Let’s take these one by one. I’ll be as brief as possible...

a) of course he talked to his spouse during the two decade period. I refuse to believe he didn’t however, society makes it unacceptable to pressure anyone for sex. As soon as anyone makes any form of protest, guess what....they are told they are being out of order (I know how this works)

 

b) “he’s not religious”. Let’s leave that one right there as he’s not religious 

 

c) 20 years with little or no sex. Of course he was.

 

d) this takes the other person to agree. His wife didn’t see that anything was broken so why agree to go to a counsellor about something you are perfectly happy with. This is how people who refuse sex work.

 

e) Why? So that he can make even more changes to accommodate his wife even though she refuses to change at all?

 

f) Again another distraction/coping mechanism. Why should someone who wants sex, a perfectly healthy part of a loving marriage have to go without and then read books about self help?

 

g) he’s here isn’t he? I bet you he’s researched loads to try and find ways to improve this. 20 years is a long long time.

 

h) because he wanted to give his marriage a chance maybe? And when the kids came there is no such thing as just leave. And more to the point, why didn’t she end the marriage knowing he wanted something she couldn’t or wouldn’t give or participate in? Also why do you guys Never ever question her motives for staying?

 

i)  this is the same as j and the answer is within h so I won’t waste my time.

 

Have you guys EVER asked yourselves how Mrs Ironhamster put up with this ‘sex crazed’ man for so long? What motivates her to do so? Why doesn’t she just leave?

 

You wouldn’t support his decision to cheat because in reality you are asexual. Therefore sex is insignificant to you (maybe even repulsive).  

 

Now ask yourself this. What do you love about relationship’s and find really important? Cuddles? Companionship? Dates? What is you need in a relationship?

Now imagine you have children and your partner who used to give you the cuddles, companionship or whatever it is, outright refuses now. And all everyone keeps saying is ‘just’ leave. Just walk out on your kids, your home and your life as you know it.

Finally, I find it interesting that you have referred to sex as a “bonding” experience. Is it any wonder that iron hamster feels angry after 20 years where his wife has been refusing to bond?

 

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3 minutes ago, Camicon said:

If you had read my last paragraph, or the post you responded to, then you wouldn't be under the impression that I am bandying about the idea that divorce is as easy as "just leaving".

 

And now that you've resorted to pointing fingers and crying "you did it first" (without providing any evidence of such behaviour on my part), well, I'm done with you; I have no interest in talking with people that aren't going to engage with me in good faith.

Well that’s a win for me because I was getting bored of repeating myself to you as you have no capacity to see it from any other angle than your own. The evidence by the way is within the thread. Just take a look and see who engaged who first and how you spoke to me (quickly camicon runs back to previous posts to edit or delete). There’s no crying you did it first, I simply responded to your accusations of me being rude and dismissive. This is the worst type of hypocrisy.

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3 hours ago, James121 said:

Let’s take these one by one. I’ll be as brief as possible...

a) of course he talked to his spouse during the two decade period. I refuse to believe he didn’t however, society makes it unacceptable to pressure anyone for sex. As soon as anyone makes any form of protest, guess what....they are told they are being out of order (I know how this works)

 

b) “he’s not religious”. Let’s leave that one right there as he’s not religious 

 

c) 20 years with little or no sex. Of course he was.

 

d) this takes the other person to agree. His wife didn’t see that anything was broken so why agree to go to a counsellor about something you are perfectly happy with. This is how people who refuse sex work.

 

e) Why? So that he can make even more changes to accommodate his wife even though she refuses to change at all?

 

f) Again another distraction/coping mechanism. Why should someone who wants sex, a perfectly healthy part of a loving marriage have to go without and then read books about self help?

 

g) he’s here isn’t he? I bet you he’s researched loads to try and find ways to improve this. 20 years is a long long time.

 

h) because he wanted to give his marriage a chance maybe? And when the kids came there is no such thing as just leave. And more to the point, why didn’t she end the marriage knowing he wanted something she couldn’t or wouldn’t give or participate in? Also why do you guys Never ever question her motives for staying?

 

i)  this is the same as j and the answer is within h so I won’t waste my time.

 

Have you guys EVER asked yourselves how Mrs Ironhamster put up with this ‘sex crazed’ man for so long? What motivates her to do so? Why doesn’t she just leave?

 

You wouldn’t support his decision to cheat because in reality you are asexual. Therefore sex is insignificant to you (maybe even repulsive).  

 

Now ask yourself this. What do you love about relationship’s and find really important? Cuddles? Companionship? Dates? What is you need in a relationship?

Now imagine you have children and your partner who used to give you the cuddles, companionship or whatever it is, outright refuses now. And all everyone keeps saying is ‘just’ leave. Just walk out on your kids, your home and your life as you know it.

Finally, I find it interesting that you have referred to sex as a “bonding” experience. Is it any wonder that iron hamster feels angry after 20 years where his wife has been refusing to bond?

 

You're making quite a few assumptions here, James. 

 

Oh and, by the way...I don't support anyone's decision to cheat because I see cheating as a selfish act where there are other options available.  It has nothing to do with whether or not I'm asexual.  There are a lot of sexuals out there who also wouldn't support his decision to cheat, either. 

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7 hours ago, Grinchmer said:

People generally know when they're not into things, no matter whether there's a term for it or not. Her (not) being aware of asexuality doesn't change the story one bit.

People often don't know how they'd react in certain situations until after they get into those situations.

 

After all, did the OP know 20 years ago that he would cheat on his wife?  A lot of people who cheat never thought they would, until they do it. 

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8 hours ago, Camicon said:

People can think that there is something wrong with them, that they will grow out of it or into it, that they haven't met the right person, etc. There are innumerable reasons why someone might be unaware that they are asexual.

My point was that even if you're unaware of being asexual, you're most likely well aware of not being interested.

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2 hours ago, vega57 said:

People often don't know how they'd react in certain situations until after they get into those situations.

 

After all, did the OP know 20 years ago that he would cheat on his wife?  A lot of people who cheat never thought they would, until they do it. 

She may not have been aware that it was called asexuality but she must have known she didn’t like or wasn’t keen on sex. Ironhamsters account of it drying up immediately after the ring was placed on her finger tells paints a grim picture. It was planned and executed.

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1 minute ago, Grinchmer said:

My point was that even if you're unaware of being asexual, you're most likely well aware of not being interested.

Denial and cognitive dissonance can be strong, though in the case at the core of this far-too-long thread, it seems this went on long enough to be unhealthy and irresponsible for both spouses.

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Conclusion: Feelings suck. Who would have thought :D

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