Acceptance

[IronHamster]

24 minutes ago, GLRDT said:

I just read a little more. If your wife was a virgin before marriage she probably had no clue she was asexual and figured when she had sex everything would be normal and she would like it. It took me years of experimentation and sex with different people to realize I was never going to super like it or desire it. I kept hoping and thinking it would be different with someone else. I struggled to know if I was sexually attracted to someone. Everyone goes through a phase of trying to figure out how things work. I didn't even know asexuality was an option. I just thought I would want sex eventually. Sounds like your wife didnt have that exploratory phase before you and had to figure out she was asexual after marrying you and that must have been hard for her to realize considering you both had just gotten married. If I was in her shoes, I would have felt horrible, broken, and guilty and then if my husband reacted in some horrible way and confirmed my fears that it was my fault and blamed me, it would have been 1000 times worse.

Thank you for this insight, GLRDT.  She never would talk about her past or want to know about mine.   We had a lot of foreplay prior to marriage, both ways.  After we married, all of that dried up.  At least you came to a solid conclusion from your experimentation.  I find that respectable.  I really feel like I got a bait and switch.  

[vega57]

18 minutes ago, MrDane said:

I see your point! I was just trying to say, that semantics matter!  Communication is important. “What is a nice christmas to you?” “To me it means...”

 

Sometimes we also tend to think, that we know how our closest think and feel. I dont think the OP and his wife talked enough about it during those decades. The bitterness could have been avoided by talking and sharing and working and respecting, but may have resulted in a break-up?! If she worked to avoid something that he worked on getting, then...? Not good! 

Oh, I absolutely agree!  But I also believe that it's our beliefs that can get us into trouble, no matter how well we communicate them. 

[GLRDT]

On 12/6/2017 at 12:23 PM, IronHamster said:

What a bunch of nonsense.   Her job was to have a complete relationship with me.  Faithfulness means she fucks me once every day at minimum, for over an hour three times a week at minimum, and all night long once a week at minimum.  Faithfulness is about meeting expectations.  She never faithfully executed her responsibilities as a sexual mate.  She offered only a minimum to keep hope alive while she enjoyed the social and economic and emotional benefits of being with me.  

Ok now, I'm with you on you both thought and expected sex to be happening but unless you broke down this schedule for her and even if she was sexual, everyone has a different libido and desire for sex. It would appear you have very high expectations about what is right and acceptable when it comes to sex. Other sexual people most likely have different viewpoints and needs than you when it comes to sex because everyone is an individual. From what I've heard most sexual couple's don't have sex as much as your suggesting either from lack of desire that often, energy, or life gets in the way.

[vega57]

10 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

Thank you for this insight, GLRDT.  She never would talk about her past or want to know about mine.   We had a lot of foreplay prior to marriage, both ways.  After we married, all of that dried up.  At least you came to a solid conclusion from your experimentation.  I find that respectable.  I really feel like I got a bait and switch.  

Hmmm...

 

You mentioned before that once you married, the marriage hadn't been consummated for about a year. 

 

Why? 

 

Did you talk to her about this during the year and if so, what did she say? 

[GLRDT]

On 12/6/2017 at 3:02 PM, IronHamster said:

Meh.  There is nothing in the legal system about sex outside marriage.   In all honesty, I do not know why asexuals care.  If asexuals actually loved their sexual partners they would beg them to get outside the marriage what they could not get within it.  

 

Any support is above the minimum.  There are plenty of guys that walk away from that shit and work under the table.  That is doing the minimum.  Heck, you cannot get any more minimum than that.  

Just to give a little bit of perspective since you said you don't understand why asexuals would have a problem. So I'm gray asexual. So I guess I can relate somewhat to asexual and sexual people in some ways. I don't know about for a full asexual person but from my personal experience, I have said I would consider talking about an open relationship with my boyfriend. He is against the idea. My boyfriend is highly sexual. If he ever changes his mind I told him I'd be open to discuss it. I haven't fully thought an open relationship through as far as benefits and negatives but here is why an open relationship would bother me. Since my boyfriend and I do have sex once in a blue moon, it would make me very uncomfortable with him having sex with me and someone else at the same time (not literally the same time). Because disease and also the idea of it just freaks me out and makes me uncomfortable. But if we decide not to have sex with each other anymore, I may be more open to him doing it. But this would all be after thorough conversation. If I found out he just decided to start doing it and we hadn't come to a decision as a couple, I would feel so betrayed because we hadn't figured out a solution as a couple and he went behind my back and did it anyhow just for himself. We are a team, a partnership and for him to make that decision alone is messed up. About anything really. If we were having a disagreement about something and in the midst of figuring it out together he just went and did the thing we we're disagreeing about a would feel hurt, betrayed, furious, and disrespected. There would be enormous trust issues and I would wonder if he cared about me at all and what I thought was important.  Just because an asexual doesn't want sex, it doesn't mean they aren't human or feel human emotions. I recognize my personal situation is different than yours in that it doesn't appear your wife was trying to work with you at all, but this reply is more for answering your statement about not understanding why asexual people would have a problem with it in general.

[GLRDT]

On 12/6/2017 at 3:54 PM, Camicon said:

Seems like the only reason you came here is because you're looking for some asexuals to tell you that you did nothing wrong by cheating on your wife. Do you seriously not understand why seeking intimacy with somebody other than your spouse might hurt their feelings?

 

And as I said before, supporting your family (financially) is the baseline expectation for people that aren't assholes. (obvious disclaimer for the working poor, etc.)

 

Look, what you did for the last twenty-some years, not forcing your wife to have sex and not cheating on her, is a sacrifice. You gave up something you wanted (sex) in an effort to uphold your marriage vows of monogamy, and put the wellbeing of your wife ahead of your own desires. Here's the catch: nobody forced you to remain in your marriage. That was decision you made, and blaming anyone else for it is a blatant attempt to shift responsibility away from yourself.

 

You chose to stay married, you chose to abstain from sex, and you chose to cheat on your wife. Instead of acting like an adult and separating from her, ending your promise of monogamy before seeking intimacy with another person, you acted like a child and argued yourself into believing that there's nothing wrong with betraying your wife, because of decisions that you made every day for the last twenty years. This is on you. You wanted something that your wife wasn't able to give you, and when you decided you'd had enough you went about things in the worst way possible.

Yes. Exactly. She did wrong too, but I feel it's important to acknowledge your part in things.

[Mermaidy]

11 hours ago, vega57 said:

Sex is also difficult to define, because everyone's sexual "appetite" is different.  My sexual appetite TODAY may be different that tomorrow.  Yet, I may be married to someone whose sexual appetite remains constant. 

Love is the same way.   And yes, if my husband's sexual appetite remains the same for 10 years....and then changes...am I, as a wife, supposed to oblige him, even if I don't like the sexual antics he proposes? 

This is why it's good to handle divorces on a case by case basis. Anyway, you aren't supposed to oblige him, but he can divorce over it if he really wants to. If any partner is unhappy and does not want to work the issues out, then he or she can divorce. If couples don't want to work together or compromise, especially in terms of unpredictable, changing life circumstances like sexual appetite or anything else, then that's that. 

[vega57]

2 minutes ago, Mermaidy said:

This is why it's good to handle divorces on a case by case basis. Anyway, you aren't supposed to oblige him, but he can divorce over it if he really wants to. If any partner is unhappy and does not want to work the issues out, then he or she can divorce. If couples don't want to work together or compromise, especially in terms of unpredictable, changing life circumstances like sexual appetite or anything else, then that's that. 

If that's the case then we probably shouldn't incorporate the "til death do us part" sentence in our marriage vows. 

[GLRDT]

6 hours ago, James121 said:

Do you have children, have you been divorced and consequently do they now live with your ex partner? If you are exactly as I have just asked you have no place in giving an opinion as it is an irrefutable fact that who ever leaves the family home (usually has to be Dad) never ever has the same level of closeness as the other person who keeps the children. 

I'm very close to both of my parents and have a lot in common with my dad and respect and love both of my parents and my dad cheated on my mom and they both decided to get a divorce for that and a lot of other reasons. I was 12 when this happened and it never affected my love for them or their love for me. In fact I got to have even more quality time one on one with my dad as a result. Just saying what you said is not an irrefutable fact.

[James121]

5 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

Expecting sex every day is called extreme hypersexuality which is also abnormal. It's just his whim. He could flee, accuse his wife of not wanting to fuck him everyday and not willing to compromise, and get divorced. She would be most likely the one guilty here. But no, he decided to go behind her back and relieve himself with another woman.

She could also flee, but her love probably does not point at his dick and his self-proclaimed amazing skills in bed only, but at him as a person in general. However, I'm not the one to talk about emotions which aren't my strong point.

“Expecting sex every day”...... please let me stop you there. Who has said anything about sex every day? Not me , not ironhamster not anyone. Where did you get that from?

[vega57]

--

 

 

[James121]

10 minutes ago, GLRDT said:

I'm very close to both of my parents and have a lot in common with my dad and respect and love both of my parents and my dad cheated on my mom and they both decided to get a divorce for that and a lot of other reasons. I was 12 when this happened and it never affected my love for them or their love for me. In fact I got to have even more quality time one on one with my dad as a result. Just saying what you said is not an irrefutable fact.

But what is a fact is that you are speaking from ‘the child’s perspective’ and you can not truly say how you dad was affected. Ironhamster isn’t going to be in the child’s position. 

Also, I hope this isn’t too intrusive but what made your dad cheat with another woman? Lots of people on here making very harsh judgments about ironhamster going over the side after 2 decades of sexlessness, how does it make you feel about what your dad did? You clearly still have a good relationship with him which is good!

[vega57]

46 minutes ago, James121 said:

“Expecting sex every day”...... please let me stop you there. Who has said anything about sex every day? Not me , not ironhamster not anyone. Where did you get that from?

Ironhamster said it right here: 

 

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 10:23 AM, IronHamster said:

What a bunch of nonsense.   Her job was to have a complete relationship with me.  Faithfulness means she fucks me once every day at minimum, for over an hour three times a week at minimum, and all night long once a week at minimum.  Faithfulness is about meeting expectations.  She never faithfully executed her responsibilities as a sexual mate.  She offered only a minimum to keep hope alive while she enjoyed the social and economic and emotional benefits of being with me.  

 

[GLRDT]

37 minutes ago, James121 said:

But what is a fact is that you are speaking from ‘the child’s perspective’ and you can not truly say how you dad was affected. Ironhamster isn’t going to be in the child’s position. 

Also, I hope this isn’t too intrusive but what made your dad cheat with another woman? Lots of people on here making very harsh judgments about ironhamster going over the side after 2 decades of sexlessness, how does it make you feel about what your dad did? You clearly still have a good relationship with him which is good!

Oh. Sorry, (not sarcasm no tone in writing) I may have misinterpreted what you said, but I thought you said the person who leaves is the one who will never be as close to their children as the one who stayed and didn't cheat. I feel like to keep or destroy that closeness there are two sides to it, the children and the parent leaving are both involved so i thought the children's point of view on that level of closeness would be important in determining that. Were you referring to the person leaving and who cheated always feeling like they aren't as close to their children because of guilt or fear or something and that that's a fact?  I think people are all so different it would depend on the situation and the people involved and in the person leaving. I don't think every single person will feel the same way. Still not sure if I understood your main point. But I tried! And on a personal level, answering your question about why my dad left and cheated would be irrelevant to this thread and pull it off topic. Also you are very correct I can't know how my dad truly felt but I really don't see how you would know how MY dad felt either. And i can talk to him about the divorce and cheating and empathize but maybe not relate because I mean we are different people and I am not it fact him or have cheated or left a spouse. But as far as closeness, I mean my emotional intelligence isn't super limited so I could tell he felt close to us still and he even said he felt like he could have more one on one time with us and be a better parent. Him and my mom were a lot happier when they divorced which allowed me to experience them as their best selves.

[vega57]

1 hour ago, GLRDT said:

Yes. Exactly. She did wrong too, but it's important to acknowledge your part in things.

Not so sure about that, GLRDT.  After all, he writes that he sees what she did as a "bait-and-switch" move. 

 

But didn't he also pull a "bait-and-switch" move?  After all, he said that she was giving him blow jobs BEFORE marriage, and yet his expectations AFTER marriage were sex every day at a minimum, for an hour three times a week as a minimum, and sex all night long once a week as a minimum. 

 

Did she know ahead of time how much sex he wanted after marriage?  Did he TELL her this before marriage?  (from what I've read so far, the answer is 'no' to both questions)  Plus, it's not like they didn't have sex AT ALL.  They obviously did.  So, she DID keep her part of the promise. 

 

I'm not seeing a whole lot that she did "wrong". 

[Yatagarasu]

46 minutes ago, James121 said:

“Expecting sex every day”...... please let me stop you there. Who has said anything about sex every day? Not me , not ironhamster not anyone. Where did you get that from?

Hold my tea, I'm gonna show you something:

 

On 6.12.2017 at 7:23 PM, IronHamster said:

Faithfulness means she fucks me once every day at minimum, for over an hour three times a week at minimum, and all night long once a week at minimum.  Faithfulness is about meeting expectations.  She never faithfully executed her responsibilities as a sexual mate.  She offered only a minimum to keep hope alive while she enjoyed the social and economic and emotional benefits of being with me.  

 

[James121]

1 minute ago, Yatagarasu said:

Hold my tea, I'm gonna show you something:

 

 

Yes....clearly that expectation is too much. I can’t defend that.

[Yatagarasu]

1 minute ago, James121 said:

Yes....clearly that expectation is too much. I can’t defend that.

Honestly? If my partner expected this much from me, I'd tell him to stay in the US and never come to see me again.

[vega57]

1 minute ago, Yatagarasu said:

Honestly? If my partner expected this much from me, I'd tell him to stay in the US and never come to see me again.

Seriously. 

 

And what he expects is "...at a MINIMUM..." 

 

He also complains about feeling like he's a victim of "bait-and-switch".  With his high (unspoken) standards, seems like she might be the victim of bait-and-switch. 

[Yatagarasu]

2 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Seriously. 

 

And what he expects is "...at a MINIMUM..." 

 

He also complains about feeling like he's a victim of "bait-and-switch".  With his high (unspoken) standards, seems like she might be the victim of bait-and-switch. 

Even for a sexual female that would be way too much, because of the differences in reproductive cycles (I mentioned that before). 

[GLRDT]

17 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Not so sure about that, GLRDT.  After all, he writes that he sees what she did as a "bait-and-switch" move. 

 

But didn't he also pull a "bait-and-switch" move?  After all, he said that she was giving him blow jobs BEFORE marriage, and yet his expectations AFTER marriage were sex every day at a minimum, for an hour three times a week as a minimum, and sex all night long once a week as a minimum. 

 

Did she know ahead of time how much sex he wanted after marriage?  Did he TELL her this before marriage?  (from what I've read so far, the answer is 'no' to both questions)  Plus, it's not like they didn't have sex AT ALL.  They obviously did.  So, she DID keep her part of the promise. 

 

I'm not seeing a whole lot that she did "wrong". 

In my opinion, they both did wrong by not communicating with each other throughout all of this mess. She did wrong by not being willing to compromise or to try to figure out a solution with him that would work for both of them. I don't need to list what Ironhamster did wrong because everyone, myself included has made that obvious. There are always two sides to a conflict. Blame never falls solely on one person. They both should be in control of their actions and be held accountable for them. It's not about who did more wrong or made the worst mistakes. It's about the fact that they both made mistakes that have led them where they are today and they should both take responsibility for their own mistakes and fixing them. 

[James121]

2 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Seriously. 

 

And what he expects is "...at a MINIMUM..." 

 

He also complains about feeling like he's a victim of "bait-and-switch".  With his high (unspoken) standards, seems like she might be the victim of bait-and-switch. 

I’ll be honest with you, I don’t believe ironhamster does have that minimum standard expectation. My opinion is that he is likely to be venting 2 decades worth of frustration out having been loyal to his wife and prayed every day that things were going to improve. Clearly they never did. In my opinion he is like many others...a victim of being too loyal. At the point she stopped having sex with him (and once per week is a reasonable expectation) and ideally before the kids came along he probably should have said “Mrs ironhamster, the time has come for you to get lost”. Unfortunately ironhamster is clearly a loyal and selfless individual who stuck it out and hoped for that change which Mrs ironhamster was never ever going to give him and was never even willing to try.

[Camicon]

7 hours ago, James121 said:

Sorry but YOU are not qualified to speak about the subject because you have not experienced being the parent who had to walk away and see their child every other weekend. You have only experienced being the child so baring in mind there are a lot statements being made on here, a lot of people claiming that their opinion is gospel, I will join you! You are not qualified full stop.

 

As for expecting someone to have sex with you when they have no desire being ‘inherently selfish’...Isn’t this thread about the fact that ironhamster NOT wanting to do that and to seek it elsewhere? A perfectly reasonable thing to want as he doesn’t want to walk away from his children and every other part of his life. He was the one who was duped in to marriage under false pretences.

 

Finally, how did Mrs Ironhamster have children? Oh yes....Sex suited her agenda at that stage so she she became capable and used ironhamster’s penis as a tool to impregnate her. And again we revert back to how she ‘didn’t realise’ she didn’t like sex at the point she was accepting a marriage proposal and again we really need to come back to the really real world. 

The child of divorced parents isn't qualified to talk about divorce? Sure. Whatever. It's not like I lived through it, or anything. But yeah, you're clearly the final arbiter of this particular issue. I apologize for overstepping, Mister Gatekeeper, sir. Please forgive my foolish assumption that having lived through something would qualify me to speak about it.

 

And no, this thread is about Ironhamster cheating on his wife, and trying to claim he did no wrong by saying "I wanted it and she wasn't giving it to me".  Ironhamster expected sex from his wife who he knew didn't want to have sex with him, which is selfish, and eventually decided to cheat on her because he wanted to have sex and also stay married to his wife, which is selfish. Divorce was a very reasonable option in this case, and it does not necessitate either spouse walking away from their "children and every other part of [their] life".

 

As I said before, given what we know of the timeline it is very possible that Ironhamster's wife did not know she was asexual before she got married, or before she had kids, for a variety of reasons. Go check around the site, there are plenty of people who went through exactly that.

 

5 hours ago, MrDane said:

Come on @Camicon! 

“Do you want to marry me?”  This sentence implies: staying together, loving eachother, building a famliy, sharing and being truthful and trustworthy, and perhaps also patient and forgiving and trying to make things work...and have sex, since it is really nice. If you dont want some of the beforementioned, then you should say it out really loud before saying “yes”. It is a part of the deal. If the deal needs to look different, then you need to say it.

 

marital rape is doing it, when one part said no.  

 

Marriage is also a promise to include sex to some extend and to be nice to both partners. At least in my society. And there is a fundamental understanding that it involves a lot of compromises and agreements. Even among hypersexual couples. 

 

Realizing that you are asexual is fine, but reminds me of realizing that you dont want in life what you said/thougth  you wanted, and that can change a lot. Almost as much as “i dont think I love you anymore, but you are still a nice companion and a good and caring father”

Yes, marriage implies a great deal, but it does not obligate a person to have sex with their spouse, as Ironhamster has argued at various points in this thread. It is not a promise to have sex, as you just said. Once again, I find I have to repeat myself...

 

Marriage is a contract, in the legal sense. Signing a contract which promises/obligates/requires you to have sex with someone is, at it's core, signing away your bodily sovereignty. This is something that you cannot do, and such a contract would be: a) unenforceable, and b) illegal. But we know that marriage contracts are not unenforceable or illegal, which means that a marriage contract cannot include a requirement that a person have sex with their spouse.

 

The relationship implied by marriage is one that includes sex, because most people want sex and most married couples have sex. It is not one that requires sex, as has been repeatedly asserted by Ironhamster, and used to justify his cheating and paint himself as both hero and victim.

[GLRDT]

IFrom a phycological outlook, this thread has been super interesting to me (sorry if I'm going off topic). So from what I've read, I feel that people have been trying to get Ironhampster to change his fundamental beliefs and have been insulting him. Two things which almost never get a desired result. And then on the other hand I feel there are the people who are supporting Ironhampster and who are doing anything and everything to defend him no matter what. Very few on either side are seeing both sides as having made good and bad points because both sides are so biased and sure they are correct. This is why I feel we have so many issues in the world. I hope this post doesn't offend or upset anyone. I truly find how people think and behave interesting (including myself) and wanted to see if other people ever notice these things as well and whether they agree with me or not.  When I wrote to Ironhampster, I expressed my opinions and tried to put myself in Ironhampster's shoes. While I don't agree with his viewpoints on pretty much everything he's expressed, I accept he's allowed to have those viewpoints and doesn't need to change if he doesn't desire to do so. If he does in fact want help and clarity on his situation and is open to it (which remains slightly questionable because it appears he isn't willing to explore different perspectives at times, but it is also hard to tell because people have kind of ganged up on him and it's hard to take in new information when you're being attacked), I have shared my opinions. I also think it's important to remember that while we can all share whatever thoughts we want because that's how this works, Ironhampster didn't actually ask if we thought that what he did was right or wrong. He asked if we could help his wife understand why what he did is okay and he couldn't understand why she had a problem. So since I disagreed with his thoughts, I gave him my own thoughts and different perspectives to consider, but have not tried to change his beliefs on marriage and what it means. I would like him to consider different perspectives and see if they affect how he thinks about things and his beliefs, but ultimately he is allowed to either do something with that information or not. And everyone here is allowed to keep reexplaining and try to get hm to realize what they want him to, but I feel it will be a lot of wasted energy and disappointment. However, if the effort to try is fulfilling you in some way, then you also have every right to fight for that! Anyhow, just a bunch of observations. I'd also like to express I didn't write this thinking I'm all knowing and that I never make mistakes and I'm not implying people here are making mistakes. Of course, everyone should share and express whatever they want.  I really just like breaking things down and sharing my ideas. 

[GLRDT]

13 minutes ago, Camicon said:

The child of divorced parents isn't qualified to talk about divorce? Sure. Whatever. It's not like I lived through it, or anything. But yeah, you're clearly the final arbiter of this particular issue. I apologize for overstepping, Mister Gatekeeper, sir. Please forgive my foolish assumption that having lived through something would qualify me to speak about it.

 

And no, this thread is about Ironhamster cheating on his wife, and trying to claim he did no wrong by saying "I wanted it and she wasn't giving it to me".  Ironhamster expected sex from his wife who he knew didn't want to have sex with him, which is selfish, and eventually decided to cheat on her because he wanted to have sex and also stay married to his wife, which is selfish. Divorce was a very reasonable option in this case, and it does not necessitate either spouse walking away from their "children and every other part of [their] life".

 

As I said before, given what we know of the timeline it is very possible that Ironhamster's wife did not know she was asexual before she got married, or before she had kids, for a variety of reasons. Go check around the site, there are plenty of people who went through exactly that.

 

Yes, marriage implies a great deal, but it does not obligate a person to have sex with their spouse, as Ironhamster has argued at various points in this thread. It is not a promise to have sex, as you just said. Once again, I find I have to repeat myself...

 

Marriage is a contract, in the legal sense. Signing a contract which promises/obligates/requires you to have sex with someone is, at it's core, signing away your bodily sovereignty. This is something that you cannot do, and such a contract would be: a) unenforceable, and b) illegal. But we know that marriage contracts are not unenforceable or illegal, which means that a marriage contract cannot include a requirement that a person have sex with their spouse.

 

The relationship implied by marriage is one that includes sex, because most people want sex and most married couples have sex. It is not one that requires sex, as has been repeatedly asserted by Ironhamster, and used to justify his cheating and paint himself as both hero and victim.

You keep repeating yourself because people don't agree with you, not because they don't understand your point.  I feel you are not going to change minds through this website, just as they are not going to change your mind.

[vega57]

15 minutes ago, James121 said:

I’ll be honest with you, I don’t believe ironhamster does have that minimum standard expectation.

He wrote in his post "...at a minimum".  He used that phrase 3 times.  He wrote the post on page 5 of this 12 page thread, and others have quoted his post since then.  He has not come back to say anything like he was "just venting". 

 

Quote

My opinion is that he is likely to be venting 2 decades worth of frustration out having been loyal to his wife and prayed every day that things were going to improve. Clearly they never did. In my opinion he is like many others...a victim of being too loyal. At the point she stopped having sex with him (and once per week is a reasonable expectation) and ideally before the kids came along he probably should have said “Mrs ironhamster, the time has come for you to get lost”. Unfortunately ironhamster is clearly a loyal and selfless individual who stuck it out and hoped for that change which Mrs ironhamster was never ever going to give him and was never even willing to try.

We have no real way of knowing what their relationship was like.   Some people will say things like "we NEVER have sex", when in reality, they're having sex once or twice a week, but they had a few 'dry spells' here and there. 

 

From what I've read by him, he seems to be quite 'entitled'. 

[Camicon]

Just now, GLRDT said:

You keep repeating yourself because people don't agree with you, not because they don't understand your point.  I feel you are not going to change minds through this website, just as they are not going to change your mind.

Whether or not someone agrees with facts doesn't change them.

 

Marriage is a legal contract: fact

You cannot sign away your bodily sovereignty: fact

A contract which signs away your bodily sovereignty would be both unenforceable and illegal: fact

A marriage contract is neither unenforceable nor illegal: fact

 

Given these facts, the only valid conclusion is that marriage contracts do not require a person to have sex with their spouse, as has been asserted multiple times by multiple people throughout this thread.

[GLRDT]

6 minutes ago, Camicon said:

Whether or not someone agrees with facts doesn't change them.

 

Marriage is a legal contract: fact

You cannot sign away your bodily sovereignty: fact

A contract which signs away your bodily sovereignty would be both unenforceable and illegal: fact

A marriage contract is neither unenforceable nor illegal: fact

 

Given these facts, the only valid conclusion is that marriage contracts do not require a person to have sex with their spouse, as has been asserted multiple times by multiple people throughout this thread.

Yes, but even if you're right, I don't know that you are going to get that agreement with you on that from the people that you desire to acknowledge that.  I am just pointing this out.

[James121]

1 hour ago, Camicon said:

The child of divorced parents isn't qualified to talk about divorce? Sure. Whatever. It's not like I lived through it, or anything. But yeah, you're clearly the final arbiter of this particular issue. I apologize for overstepping, Mister Gatekeeper, sir. Please forgive my foolish assumption that having lived through something would qualify me to speak about it.

 

And no, this thread is about Ironhamster cheating on his wife, and trying to claim he did no wrong by saying "I wanted it and she wasn't giving it to me".  Ironhamster expected sex from his wife who he knew didn't want to have sex with him, which is selfish, and eventually decided to cheat on her because he wanted to have sex and also stay married to his wife, which is selfish. Divorce was a very reasonable option in this case, and it does not necessitate either spouse walking away from their "children and every other part of [their] life".

 

As I said before, given what we know of the timeline it is very possible that Ironhamster's wife did not know she was asexual before she got married, or before she had kids, for a variety of reasons. Go check around the site, there are plenty of people who went through exactly that.

 

Yes, marriage implies a great deal, but it does not obligate a person to have sex with their spouse, as Ironhamster has argued at various points in this thread. It is not a promise to have sex, as you just said. Once again, I find I have to repeat myself...

 

Marriage is a contract, in the legal sense. Signing a contract which promises/obligates/requires you to have sex with someone is, at it's core, signing away your bodily sovereignty. This is something that you cannot do, and such a contract would be: a) unenforceable, and b) illegal. But we know that marriage contracts are not unenforceable or illegal, which means that a marriage contract cannot include a requirement that a person have sex with their spouse.

 

The relationship implied by marriage is one that includes sex, because most people want sex and most married couples have sex. It is not one that requires sex, as has been repeatedly asserted by Ironhamster, and used to justify his cheating and paint himself as both hero and victim.

A child who has had parents who got divorced has no place in being able to say how their dad felt is what I said. You are a very sly individual who reads what you want to read. It just doesn’t wash I’m afraid.

[GLRDT]

9 hours ago, James121 said:

Do you have children, have you been divorced and consequently do they now live with your ex partner? If you are exactly as I have just asked you have no place in giving an opinion as it is an irrefutable fact that who ever leaves the family home (usually has to be Dad) never ever has the same level of closeness as the other person who keeps the children. 

ohhh! I still don't know if I agree that it's an irrefutable fact because it really depends how the situation is set up, but I'm sorry I missed the detail about how the children live with the ex partner and only that partner. My story refers to living with both my parents fairly equally per week and they made sure to live in houses near each other so it wouldn't be as difficult for my sister and I.  My story is a different type of situation. Oops!