Acceptance

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, James121 said:

Finally, how did Mrs Ironhamster have children? Oh yes....Sex suited her agenda at that stage so she she became capable and used ironhamster’s penis as a tool to impregnate her.

..Is that actually what happened? I haven't been following the thread too closely since I last commented but 1) Isn't it just as likely he wanted the kids too? He certainly wanted the sex that made them anyway. And 2) if he didn't want kids he could have put a condom on it so it's not like she was doing something he wasn't aware of.

[James121]

Just now, FictoVore. said:

..Is that actually what happened? I haven't been following all the thread closely since I commented but 1) Isn't it just as likely he wanted the kids too? He certainly wanted the sex that made them anyway. And 2) if he didn't want kids he could have put a condom on it so it's not like she was doing something he wasn't aware of.

No clearly you haven’t followed the thread. 1) Yes he probably wanted kids and wanted the sex that made the kids 2) yes he could have used a condom 3) Very important one here...How was she suddenly capable of the sex? Likely because it suited her agenda

[Yatagarasu]

24 minutes ago, James121 said:

You see and this is very much the problem. It highlights it perfectly....”If you feel sexually deprived and you think that having sex is more important than your wife’s feelings then I agree with...”

At what point do any of you consider the feelings of Ironhamster. You ALL behave and speak as though sex is something that someone just wants. You ALL revert to attempting to guilt anyone who disagrees with your views in to thinking that they are being selfish for wanting sex and yet, sex is a very normal part of a relationship and typically a very healthy sign of affection, love and attraction. 

Please can you try to drop this ‘sexual people are selfish and out to get what they want’ attitude?

Have you read everything he posted? How am I supposed to pity someone who's acting all upon his needs and calling himself a hero for being unfaithful? What he did was plain wrong and yet, he didn't even try to look at things from a different perspective.

And how did you get "sexual people are selfish (...)" kind of mindset for all asexual people? I never said it. That one individual acts blatantly selfish, not all sexual people.

[James121]

2 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Have you read everything he posted? How am I supposed to pity someone who's acting all upon his needs and calling himself a hero for being unfaithful? What he did was plain wrong and yet, he didn't even try to look at things from a different perspective.

And how did you get "sexual people are selfish (...)" kind of mindset for all asexual people? I never said it. That one individual acts blatantly selfish, not all sexual people.

We need to move passed this ‘he or someone acting based on their needs’. It’s way way more than just needs. Her ‘feelings’ need to be properly considered and ironhamster appears to have done so for two decades at the expense of his own happiness. He now chooses to cheat and everyone keeps saying ‘you can walk away ironhamster, no one is forcing you to stay ironhamster, your needs shouldn’t take priority over your wife’s feelings ironhamster’ and so much more.

 

How about this solution. Ironhamster does not cheat... Mrs ironhamster accepts that she either duped her husband into marriage pretending that sex was something she was fine with or she has discovered this over time. She accepts she had it her way for two decades and it’s time to redress the balance. Now sex is a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to expect and want in a marriage and she is not participating. Mrs Ironhamster should therefore be the one to walk away, leave her children and start a fresh. Ironhamster should be asked to do none of that as he purely seeks a normal marriage and most certainly nothing that should be considered unreasonable. If Mrs ironhamster does not agree to this, does not want sex then she should say to ironhamster “you want something perfectly reasonable that I can not provide or participate in. Please feel free to go elsewhere without guilt”

[MrDane]

On 6/12/2017 at 2:28 PM, IronHamster said:

I have been married to an asexual, and I am trying to cope with the fact that they do not want to bond with me the way I need to bond.   I recently found a wonderful woman who was dealing with the exact same issue with her husband.  We met, and the chemistry between us was beautiful, exciting, and, amazing.   I let my wife know about this, and she is hurt.  I do not understand why.  Sex within our marriage has meant nothing to her.  I was not expecting she would care any more about sex outside marriage.   What can I do to help her see that this is a good thing.  I am finally getting something I need.  

I have not read the whole thread yet, but plan to! I understand how @IronHamster feels. He had the opportunity to have sex with a wonderful woman who wanted sex with him. This is a dream scenario of most sexuals. I fear of falling in the same trap. I hope that I will be able to tell about my feelings and make an agreement or at least be open about my intentions before plunging into that sexual adventure. Give us(my wife and I) a possibility to talk openly about it and make plans for the future. What to do? How much is okay? Is this going to affect other things? Is this the first step towards leaving one relationship and building a new? Is this just sex? Is it important to have it with a wonderful woman and not just a woman?

 

@IronHamster it is a relationship problem and you chose to share it and fix it outside of the relationship. I will read more of the thread later. I think the issue in this thread will be something about trust, personal needs, expectations and deal breaking.

[Yatagarasu]

28 minutes ago, James121 said:

We need to move passed this ‘he or someone acting based on their needs’. It’s way way more than just needs. Her ‘feelings’ need to be properly considered and ironhamster appears to have done so for two decades at the expense of his own happiness. He now chooses to cheat and everyone keeps saying ‘you can walk away ironhamster, no one is forcing you to stay ironhamster, your needs shouldn’t take priority over your wife’s feelings ironhamster’ and so much more.

 

How about this solution. Ironhamster does not cheat... Mrs ironhamster accepts that she either duped her husband into marriage pretending that sex was something she was fine with or she has discovered this over time. She accepts she had it her way for two decades and it’s time to redress the balance. Now sex is a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to expect and want in a marriage and she is not participating. Mrs Ironhamster should therefore be the one to walk away, leave her children and start a fresh. Ironhamster should be asked to do none of that as he purely seeks a normal marriage and most certainly nothing that should be considered unreasonable. If Mrs ironhamster does not agree to this, does not want sex then she should say to ironhamster “you want something perfectly reasonable that I can not provide or participate in. Please feel free to go elsewhere without guilt”

Expecting sex every day is called extreme hypersexuality which is also abnormal. It's just his whim. He could flee, accuse his wife of not wanting to fuck him everyday and not willing to compromise, and get divorced. She would be most likely the one guilty here. But no, he decided to go behind her back and relieve himself with another woman.

She could also flee, but her love probably does not point at his dick and his self-proclaimed amazing skills in bed only, but at him as a person in general. However, I'm not the one to talk about emotions which aren't my strong point.

[vega57]

1 hour ago, James121 said:

You see and this is very much the problem. It highlights it perfectly....”If you feel sexually deprived and you think that having sex is more important than your wife’s feelings then I agree with...”

At what point do any of you consider the feelings of Ironhamster. You ALL behave and speak as though sex is something that someone just wants. You ALL revert to attempting to guilt anyone who disagrees with your views in to thinking that they are being selfish for wanting sex and yet, sex is a very normal part of a relationship and typically a very healthy sign of affection, love and attraction. 

Please can you try to drop this ‘sexual people are selfish and out to get what they want’ attitude?

And....you don't believe that the OP is acting out of selfishness by cheating?  Does he "love" the person he's having an affair with? 

 

Quote

As for expecting someone to have sex with you when they have no desire being ‘inherently selfish’...Isn’t this thread about the fact that ironhamster NOT wanting to do that and to seek it elsewhere?

The "seek it elsewhere" part is the part that's inherently selfish!  He wants his cake and eat it too.  It's both selfish and entitled. 

 

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A perfectly reasonable thing to want as he doesn’t want to walk away from his children and every other part of his life.

He already admitted that he'd be o.k. financially if he divorced. Besides, he also has the option to apply for custody, and maybe even get it!   

 

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He was the one who was duped in to marriage under false pretences.

He wasn't duped.  She agreed to have sex with him after marriage...which she DID do.  Maybe it's SHE who feels "duped" because of the extreme amount of sex that the OP expects! 

 

Quote

Finally, how did Mrs Ironhamster have children? Oh yes....Sex suited her agenda at that stage so she she became capable and used ironhamster’s penis as a tool to impregnate her.

LOL!  Yes, she had a secret agenda to use his penis to get pregnant...as if Ironhamster DIDN'T want children himself, right?  She got what she wanted by getting pregnant and having kids, as if Ironhamster DIDN'T get what he wanted by impregnating her...right? 

 

And maybe she didn't want the OP to use her vagina and/or her mouth as his personal masturbatory tool or as some sperm dumpster!  The "logic" works both ways. 

 

The OP had options besides cheating.  He said that they didn't consummate their marriage for about a year.  He said that in hindsight, he should have gotten it annulled back then, BEFORE having kids.  He didn't.  That's on him.  He needs to take responsibility for his own decisions and stop blaming his wife. 

[MrDane]

On 6/12/2017 at 3:27 PM, IronHamster said:

Are you saying my wife not having sex is more important than my mental well being?  

 

I have talked to my wife on multiple occasions about opening the marriage.  She has no reason to.  I wonder if she likes to see me in agony.  Is this normal?  How can I get her to see things more rationally so that we can maintain our happy home?  

One thing at a time! 

You have talked about opening the relationship. Good!

 

”she has no reason to”? What do you mean? 1.She has no reason to see you happy? Or 2.she does not want you to get sex elsewhere?

Number one is sick. Get out! 

Number two is more difficult. I think you are entitled to pursue a life containing sex, and she is entitled to say no to participating. But she cannot put down a celibatical veto on you. Splitting may be the result.

[vega57]

1 hour ago, James121 said:

No clearly you haven’t followed the thread. 1) Yes he probably wanted kids and wanted the sex that made the kids 2) yes he could have used a condom 3) Very important one here...How was she suddenly capable of the sex? Likely because it suited her agenda

If they BOTH wanted children, then her having sex wasn't only "her" agenda. 

[MrDane]

On 6/12/2017 at 4:06 PM, IronHamster said:

My petitions for an open marriage have been denied.  

 

I just do not understand why sex outside a marriage is important when sex within a marriage is not important.  This is highly illogical.   

To some point, after hours, of disgussing how to fix the issue about you needing sex and her not wanting to take part. You could have said “well, honey. I need it so much, that I will go out in life and try to get it. You may not like it, but since not-having makes me feel lousy and depressed, so be it. If you see another option which includes sex for me then tell me. If you will leave me because of it, then so be it, but I hope we can make this relationship work, while I have the sex that makes me happy”

 

what is important to her is probably to not feel violated within a relationship. What is important as well is that opening a relationship is taking a risk about you finding a better relationship. 

[IronHamster]

20 minutes ago, vega57 said:

And....you don't believe that the OP is acting out of selfishness by cheating?  Does he "love" the person he's having an affair with? 

 

The "seek it elsewhere" part is the part that's inherently selfish!  He wants his cake and eat it too.  It's both selfish and entitled. 

 

He already admitted that he'd be o.k. financially if he divorced. Besides, he also has the option to apply for custody, and maybe even get it!   

 

He wasn't duped.  She agreed to have sex with him after marriage...which she DID do.  Maybe it's SHE who feels "duped" because of the extreme amount of sex that the OP expects! 

 

LOL!  Yes, she had a secret agenda to use his penis to get pregnant...as if Ironhamster DIDN'T want children himself, right?  She got what she wanted by getting pregnant and having kids, as if Ironhamster DIDN'T get what he wanted by impregnating her...right? 

 

And maybe she didn't want the OP to use her vagina and/or her mouth as his personal masturbatory tool or as some sperm dumpster!  The "logic" works both ways. 

 

The OP had options besides cheating.  He said that they didn't consummate their marriage for about a year.  He said that in hindsight, he should have gotten it annulled back then, BEFORE having kids.  He didn't.  That's on him.  He needs to take responsibility for his own decisions and stop blaming his wife. 

Keep in mind oral sex was very regular before the marriage.  If you give a woman a rose a day when courting she will expect a rose a day once married.  The same frequencies apply to men and blowjobs.   

[MrDane]

On 6/12/2017 at 5:35 PM, IronHamster said:

Absolutely not.  She said she was a virgin, saving sex for marriage,  and that she was ready.  While we were dating, she swallowed.  After the ring went on I did not get anything for about a year.  In retrospect I should have gotten it annulled, but I still had hope.  

This sounds like a classic in a mixed marriage. One is sexual and wants/likes sex. The other thinks that it is just a matter of circumstances and that everything will be better later on. The sexual blames a ton of things and the ace blames a ton of things before both realize how asexuality is in fact the issue.  

[vega57]

21 minutes ago, IronHamster said:

Keep in mind oral sex was very regular before the marriage.  If you give a woman a rose a day when courting she will expect a rose a day once married.  The same frequencies apply to men and blowjobs.   

First of all, not ALL women think alike.  If anyone gave me a rose a day while courting, I'd get BORED by the 4th day...and ask him to STOP. 

 

Secondly, there are plenty of men out there who do things during the courting process that they STOP doing as soon as they're married.  For example, he may take her out to eat once a week while wooing her.  Once married, the wining and dining STOPS.  Should she continue to expect him to take her out to dinner once a week?  Would that even be practical, once they start having kids or now have a hefty mortgage and he's now working 60 hours a week? 

[MrDane]

On 6/12/2017 at 6:03 PM, Camicon said:

 

Marriage isn't a promise to have sex. See: marital rape.

 

And some people get married before they realize they're asexual. Pitfall of a society that censures asexual voices.

Come on @Camicon! 

“Do you want to marry me?”  This sentence implies: staying together, loving eachother, building a famliy, sharing and being truthful and trustworthy, and perhaps also patient and forgiving and trying to make things work...and have sex, since it is really nice. If you dont want some of the beforementioned, then you should say it out really loud before saying “yes”. It is a part of the deal. If the deal needs to look different, then you need to say it.

 

marital rape is doing it, when one part said no.  

 

Marriage is also a promise to include sex to some extend and to be nice to both partners. At least in my society. And there is a fundamental understanding that it involves a lot of compromises and agreements. Even among hypersexual couples. 

 

Realizing that you are asexual is fine, but reminds me of realizing that you dont want in life what you said/thougth  you wanted, and that can change a lot. Almost as much as “i dont think I love you anymore, but you are still a nice companion and a good and caring father”

[MrDane]

On 6/12/2017 at 7:23 PM, IronHamster said:

What a bunch of nonsense.   Her job was to have a complete relationship with me.  Faithfulness means she fucks me once every day at minimum, for over an hour three times a week at minimum, and all night long once a week at minimum.  Faithfulness is about meeting expectations.  She never faithfully executed her responsibilities as a sexual mate.  She offered only a minimum to keep hope alive while she enjoyed the social and economic and emotional benefits of being with me.  

@IronHamster You can not put a number on like that! But you could state how often you would like to have sex and how you would like it to be, in order to feel sexually fulfilled. Even a sexual could be rather stressed about your “minimums” and as you speak of decades without, the demand sounds a bit silly.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, James121 said:

 3) Very important one here...How was she suddenly capable of the sex? Likely because it suited her agenda

Or maybe *gasp* she could have legitimately wanted kids? You know that just because someone doesn't want or enjoy sex, they're still capable of having it, right? If having children was important enough to her that she would put up with a little bit of sex, that doesn't automatically mean she has some twisted agenda.

 

You, my friend, seem to be working yourself up into a bit of a state in this thread. You should have some cake and a lie down.

[vega57]

5 minutes ago, MrDane said:

Come on @Camicon! 

“Do you want to marry me?”  This sentence implies: staying together, loving eachother, building a famliy, sharing and being truthful and trustworthy, and perhaps also patient and forgiving and trying to make things work...and have sex, since it is really nice. If you dont want some of the beforementioned, then you should say it out really loud before saying “yes”. It is a part of the deal. If the deal needs to look different, then you need to say it.

 

marital rape is doing it, when one part said no.  Marriage is also a promise to include sex to some extend and to be nice to both part. At leats in my society.

Asking someone to marry you doesn't "imply" anything, MrDane.  What you've written is actually...pretty vague. 

 

You wrote that marriage implies "...building a family..."  Your partner may want to "build a family" too, but WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?  Your idea of "building a family" may be very different than your partner's idea.  You may want 10 kids.  Your partner may not want any children, but she sees the two of you as "family". 

 

It's the same thing with sex.  You may both want sex.  You may want it EVERY DAY.  Your partner may only want it in order to procreate.  Sex is difficult to predict (and therefore agree on) because other factors are involved.  If she's pissed at you, she may not be wanting sex with you.  You, however, may believe that how she feels about *you* in the moment should have nothing to do with how she feels about *sex*...and that she "should" do it with you regardless of how pissed she is at you (which could make her even MORE pissed at you, lol!) 

 

And no...marriage is NOT a promise to include sex.  People can agree to marry and also agree NOT to include sex as part of their marriage.  Doesn't make it any less of a marriage. 

 

But I think part of the problem is of the people who DO expect sex in their marriage, they don't really discuss the particulars about it ahead of time.  For example, HOW MUCH sex do you expect?  What kind?  How long is it going to last?  Is oral sex going to be included?  If so, how often?  What about anal sex?  What if you tell me that you don't like anal, and in 10 years, you change your mind?  What if *I* don't like anal and I DON'T change my mind?  Are you going to badger me until I do it?  Are you going to resent me if I don't?  Are you going to feel like you're "missing out" on something if we don't do that?  Are you going to go on forums like AVEN to complain about how your "insensitive" wife is "withholding" anal from you, even though she did it ONCE with another partner and hated it?  Does she OWE you anal sex?  Are you entitled to anal sex? 

 

Whew. 

 

Even if you were able to answer all those questions NOW, it doesn't mean that your answers would be the same in 10 years or if the situation presented itself.  Like I said before, sex is hard to predict.  That's why we shouldn't base a marriage/long-term relationship upon it. 

 

 

[MrDane]

On 7/12/2017 at 10:20 PM, TheAngel(of)Peace said:

How is marriage a promise of sex? Sure, most married couple have sex, but that's because most people are sexual. It's not a requirement for marriage. Two asexuals can get married and not have sex. Did OP's wife actually promise him sex?

Perhaps on planet Ace, but amongst the most earthlings some things fall quite natural and comes in steps (and some things need not be written down in blood, since we understand it and read the same thing between the lines) 

a kiss is quite commonly seen as a “i like you”

a second date is seen as “i liked the first one and would like to have the experience of knowing you better”

a “would you like to be my girlfriend” as a “we are a couple, and unless we say otherwise, then we are trying out to stay together and not couple up with others”

”i love you” is seen as more than just a friend, but still a friend.

 

I dont care about religious dogma or strict words of the law, but I do care about when words lose their meaning. 

“I would like to build a family” is not equivalent to “I hate kids and never want any in my house” 

“i would like to marry you” implies a lot, (including working towards a mutually fulfilling sex life), and if not, should be accompagnied with a statement like: ...but I dont want to live in the same house as you or ...but I dont think I ever want children or ...but you need to change drastically on these issues.

[vega57]

35 minutes ago, MrDane said:

@IronHamster You can not put a number on like that! But you could state how often you would like to have sex and how you would like it to be, in order to feel sexually fulfilled. Even a sexual could be rather stressed about your “minimums” and as you speak of decades without, the demand sounds a bit silly.

Makes me wonder if he's getting this...

 

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she fucks me once every day at minimum, for over an hour three times a week at minimum, and all night long once a week at minimum. 

...from his affair partner.  

[GLRDT]

On 12/6/2017 at 9:06 AM, IronHamster said:

My petitions for an open marriage have been denied.  

 

I just do not understand why sex outside a marriage is important when sex within a marriage is not important.  This is highly illogical.   

The following below is my opinion, not fact even if I didn't put I feel or I think in front of my sentences enough. I can only form my opinion from what I've read that you wrote and what I know about relationships in general. It is clear to me you and your wife are the only ones who are in the relationship and really know what's going on and we are only hearing your perspective. 

 

When you're in a relationship, what is logical, smart or makes sense to you isn't always what's important. You may think your partner wants something done some way for the stupidest reason ever (I've been there), but love is about sometimes pushing away these thoughts and realizing that even if you think something is stupid, it's important to that other person. If you love and respect your partner, you then listen to them and try to find a compromise and sometimes once you've listened to and accepted them they are more willing to realize they were being stupid. If no compromise can be met, you both deserve to have your needs met, but not just however you want. It's not like a well than fuck you I'm going to go do the thing you said was important that I didn't do. You need sex and to fix your mental health, there is nothing wrong with that.  However, the only considerate and some would say moral way i can think of would be to break it off or continue communication. Which apparently neither one of you did. You claimed to have heard what she was saying for twenty years, but have you heard her feelings recently about you having sex with some lady? Because if you care so little about her feelings when she is clearly upset and you are willing to just blame her for everything and  you think the solution to everything is to just do whatever you want to fix only your problems then neither one of you is going to be happy in your relationship. Im not hearing that love and respect that is necessary for a successful relationship when you tell your story. It seems like you both should have had a conversation long ago about how no sex wasn't  working for you and if she wasn't willing to compromise or listen to your feelings, then you or both of you had the responsibility to make the choice to end things, go to therapy, communicate more. Neither one of you equally decided not to make the choice to do any of these things and to stay together anyhow. That doesn't mean you then have the  right to secretly resent her and just do whatever you want because you BOTH didn't find a solution earlier on. It takes two for an issue to arise. You  cannot put all the blame on her or you. It sounds like the trust and communication has been completely shattered in this relationship. 

[GLRDT]

On 12/6/2017 at 9:23 AM, IronHamster said:

Nope.  The command is to not deny each other.  We cannot dance around that.  An asexual that marries a hypersexual is knowingly committing herself to lots of great sex.  If sex is a problem, she should not marry a sexual person.  

And what happens when things change in a relationship? Is no one allowed to go in thinking things will be one way and then there is no growth for change? What if you were having great sex and then life got in the way and you weren't having it as much or at all? Or she got in an accident and physically couldn't have it anymore? Would you have sex with a different woman because your wife was "breaking her vow"? I don't know you or your wife but could perhaps your wife truly think going in that she was going to be able to have regular sex and then realized after the fact she couldn't do it? Did she know she was asexual when you got married? If she didn't, and found out later, I feel that's not her scheming to get you into marriage and lie to you. If she did know ahead of time and you did too and regular sex was important to you, why on Earth did you agree to get married?

[GLRDT]

@IronHamster ok. So if I try to put myself in your mindset which is way different than what I personally believe. It seems like what this comes down to is that you both had very different viewpoints about what marriage and the marriage vow means and neither one of you clearly stated what getting married meant to you before you got married. Just because neither one of you talked about that doesn't mean the blame is solely on one person and it doesn't mean your interpretation was the only or right way to interpret the vow. Maybe you both should talk about what the vow meant to you both individually and perhaps this will bring clearer understanding as to why she acts the way she does and believes what she does and why you act the way you do and believe what you do. I feel like you and your wife probably hold very differing views about many things but have you both heard from each other about both your views? This sounds like a lot of miscommunication and expectations that neither one of you knows about because you both haven't expressed them to each other. (Unless you have). How can you be mad at someone for not being able to read your mind?

[vega57]

8 minutes ago, MrDane said:

a kiss is quite commonly seen as a “i like you”

In this "hook up" culture we now live in, it's also quite commonly seen as, "Le's fuck NOW..." or, "I like you enough to fuck you"...

 

Quote

a second date is seen as “i liked the first one and would like to have the experience of knowing you better”

It's also seen as, "I bought her 2 meals.  Tonight's the night she BETTER 'put out'".

 

Quote

a “would you like to be my girlfriend” as a “we are a couple, and unless we say otherwise, then we are trying out to stay together and not couple up with others”

Can also be seen as, "NOW that I have a girlfriend, I can get a steady stream of sex!"

 

It's not one way or the other.  Unfortunately, it can be BOTH ways. 

Quote

 

I dont care about religious dogma or strict words of the law, but I do care about when words lose their meaning. 

“I would like to build a family” is not equivalent to “I hate kids and never want any in my house” 

 

But it doesn't imply that you want more than two, either.  You may want 2 kids.  "She" may want 10.  To simply say, "I would like to build a family" is too vague to have much meaning because it means different things to different people.   

 

 

[MrDane]

12 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Asking someone to marry you doesn't "imply" anything, MrDane.  What you've written is actually...pretty vague. 

 

You wrote that marriage implies "...building a family..."  Your partner may want to "build a family" too, but WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?  Your idea of "building a family" may be very different than your partner's idea.  You may want 10 kids.  Your partner may not want any children, but she sees the two of you as "family". 

 

It's the same thing with sex.  You may both want sex.  You may want it EVERY DAY.  Your partner may only want it in order to procreate.  Sex is difficult to predict (and therefore agree on) because other factors are involved.  If she's pissed at you, she may not be wanting sex with you.  You, however, may believe that how she feels about *you* in the moment should have nothing to do with how she feels about *sex*...and that she "should" do it with you regardless of how pissed she is at you (which could make her even MORE pissed at you, lol!) 

 

And no...marriage is NOT a promise to include sex.  People can agree to marry and also agree NOT to include sex as part of their marriage.  Doesn't make it any less of a marriage. 

 

But I think part of the problem is of the people who DO expect sex in their marriage, they don't really discuss the particulars about it ahead of time.  For example, HOW MUCH sex do you expect?  What kind?  How long is it going to last?  Is oral sex going to be included?  If so, how often?  What about anal sex?  What if you tell me that you don't like anal, and in 10 years, you change your mind?  What if *I* don't like anal and I DON'T change my mind?  Are you going to badger me until I do it?  Are you going to resent me if I don't?  Are you going to feel like you're "missing out" on something if we don't do that?  Are you going to go on forums like AVEN to complain about how your "insensitive" wife is "withholding" anal from you, even though she did it ONCE with another partner and hated it?  Does she OWE you anal sex?  Are you entitled to anal sex? 

 

Whew. 

 

Even if you were able to answer all those questions NOW, it doesn't mean that your answers would be the same in 10 years or if the situation presented itself.  Like I said before, sex is hard to predict.  That's why we shouldn't base a marriage/long-term relationship upon it. 

 

 

I think it is fair reason to expect, that sex is something that you work toward finding a good mutual satisfactioning rythm and a way to do it. Part of this could be to find out how and when and how often you can agree upon it, so that the relationship can take part in this as a pleasant, recreational, fun activity for both. 

 

 

 

Of course things and people can change over time. If you liked this and dont anymore, then stop. I am not advocating for forced sex upon anyone. 

 

If you want a family, then this is quite normally understood as a normal step in a serious relationship and usually means mum,dad +children (...and something people with a different idea about how to live their life, struggles with this as they meet this common understanding all the time, but it is still the ‘understanding’) what kind of a family is up for discussion and quite individual, like you said: “she may not want any children but sees you two as a family”. But would be nice to know, if the idea falls out far from average understanding.

 

When you know, that your ‘understanding’ differs a lot from the common understanding, then you should tell, since the dimwitted sexuals, like me, tends to think that common and normal and average is to be expected.

 

 

[GLRDT]

I just read a little more. If your wife was a virgin before marriage she probably had no clue she was asexual and figured when she had sex everything would be normal and she would like it. It took me years of experimentation and sex with different people to realize I was never going to super like it or desire it. I kept hoping and thinking it would be different with someone else. I struggled to know if I was sexually attracted to someone. Everyone goes through a phase of trying to figure out how things work. I didn't even know asexuality was an option. I just thought I would want sex eventually. Sounds like your wife didnt have that exploratory phase before you and had to figure out she was asexual after marrying you and that must have been hard for her to realize considering you both had just gotten married. If I was in her shoes, I would have felt horrible, broken, and guilty and then if my husband reacted in some horrible way and confirmed my fears that it was my fault and blamed me, it would have been 1000 times worse.

[MrDane]

23 minutes ago, vega57 said:

In this "hook up" culture we now live in, it's also quite commonly seen as, "Le's fuck NOW..." or, "I like you enough to fuck you"...

 

It's also seen as, "I bought her 2 meals.  Tonight's the night she BETTER 'put out'".

 

Can also be seen as, "NOW that I have a girlfriend, I can get a steady stream of sex!"

 

It's not one way or the other.  Unfortunately, it can be BOTH ways. 

But it doesn't imply that you want more than two, either.  You may want 2 kids.  "She" may want 10.  To simply say, "I would like to build a family" is too vague to have much meaning because it means different things to different people.   

 

 

I see your point! I was just trying to say, that semantics matter!  Communication is important. “What is a nice christmas to you?” “To me it means...”

 

Sometimes we also tend to think, that we know how our closest think and feel. I dont think the OP and his wife talked enough about it during those decades. The bitterness could have been avoided by talking and sharing and working and respecting, but may have resulted in a break-up?! If she worked to avoid something that he worked on getting, then...? Not good! 

[GLRDT]

On 12/6/2017 at 11:07 AM, IronHamster said:

If placing sex above your partner is by no means healthy, than placing not having sex above your partner is by no means healthy.   There is no room for either extreme.  

Well with this comment then you should realize what she did was wrong and what you did was wrong. It's not on one person. Her putting no sex above her partner and not willing to compromise and create a mutual beneficial solution wasn't great and you putting sex above her and not coming to a solution with her (even if that means divorce or therapy) wasn't great. You said it yourself. Both extremes suck.

[GLRDT]

accidental repeat.

[GLRDT]

On 12/6/2017 at 11:51 AM, IronHamster said:

I'm not sure what you think I am justifying.   My actions are justified.  There are asexuals here that use body autonomy as a reason for no sex in marriage.  I use it for sex outside marriage.  My body my rights.  Right?  

I like your creative way of thinking about this and I think it would work if you hadn't already expressed having such high expectations and judgements about breaking the moral marriage vow when it came to your wife doing it. If you were more lenient and understanding of her, this view for yourself of being able to have sex outside of marriage would work and be logical and consistent with what you've said about marital vows before, however you've already expressed how she messed up by not having sex with you because that is in the marital vows that you both agreed to. If you are holding her so strongly to that vow, then how can you be ok with letting yourself out as an exception to the vow rule and think that's ok? If the marital vow is that sacred to you, from your own logic, shouldn't what you both did be wrong?

[vega57]

5 minutes ago, MrDane said:

When you know, that your ‘understanding’ differs a lot from the common understanding, then you should tell, since the dimwitted sexuals, like me, tends to think that common and normal and average is to be expected.

But that's just it.  Often, people DON'T know that their 'understanding' of a situation deviates so dramatically from what's "common" or "normal" or "average" OR, they ARE behaving in a common, normal or average way, and someone is telling them that they're "wrong".

 

A woman commonly loses her desire for sex after having children.  It's normal to do so.  Yet, we keep insisting that women do whatever it takes to get back their "mojo", STAT!  In one article I recently read it said,

Quote

"In one study of postpartum women, 20 percent had little or no desire for sex three months after delivery, and another 21 percent had a complete loss of desire or aversion to sexual activity

That's only one study.  Other studies have reported the frequency of up to 60%! (I wish I could find the damn thing again.  Read this several years ago) That's a LOT of women!  I remember reading it while thinking, "Why do we pathologize something that's normal?" 

 

Hmmm...