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Is sex really that important for a relationship?

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Telecaster68

Don't you get aroused, and feel the need to do something about it, even if not with a partner?

 

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Serran
12 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Don't you get aroused, and feel the need to do something about it, even if not with a partner?

 

TMI:

 



 

In previous relationships I've always been able to get physically aroused, but never mentally/emotionally - my body would always respond to things, but I'd never want to do anything at all sexual and would hardly even notice (often, they'd have to point it out and I was like "OK, so what?" )

 

In this one, I can get actually aroused - turned on - in the mood whatever you wanna call it. But, it honestly... isn't important? Like, we have done some stuff. And, I have masturbated a few times cause they turned me on (which, is something I never, ever did in my 30 years before being with this person). That's why I say I am sexually attracted to this partner and I don't ID as asexual anymore. But, I honestly most the time prefer just being playful, nothing more. And if I never had an orgasm again I wouldn't be upset, as long as we can still joke around. :D 

 

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Serran
29 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Wooooooooooow.  As I read this post, I could *feel* the "tension" just melting from my heart.  Your relationship sounds like pure HEAVEN to me.  There's a certain "innocence" about it.   There's love...and passion...and playfulness. 

 

Wow.  Just.                                        Wow.   

There is a reason I am madly in love with my partner and getting married and wouldn't trade them for anything. :wub:

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vega57
1 minute ago, Serran said:

There is a reason I am madly in love with my partner and getting married and wouldn't trade them for anything. :wub:

Heck, based on what you described, *I'M* madly in love with *YOUR* partner, lol!!!

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Serran
2 hours ago, vega57 said:

Heck, based on what you described, *I'M* madly in love with *YOUR* partner, lol!!!

SORRY SHE IS TAKEN! :P 

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Sally
On 2/13/2018 at 10:35 AM, Telecaster68 said:

. How long would a sexual person have to make absolutely no sexual move of any type before they'd accept that sexuals can actually do non-sexual physical contact as well as sexual physical contact?

 

Of course sexuals can do non-sexual physical contact.  But the asexual has NO way to determine whether at any given point, the sexual's non-sexual physical contact is going to progress to wanting/expecting sexual contact.  So the asexual is walking a tightrope any time non-sexual physical contact starts between the two, not knowing what will  or will not come next.  You can't relax and enjoy anything on a tightrope.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
7 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Surely the person who walks out of a shower in nothing but a towel, straddles their partner, and kisses them passionately is the one turning it sexual?... and then your partner responds in kind, gets rejected, and they're meant to smile and not get upset? Every time? I really don't have any sympathy for your unmet emotional needs in this situation. You're expecting huge levels of self control from your partner, but excusing yourself from any self control at all, from what I can see.

Yeah this is exactly what I was talking about when I was saying an asexual can have unmet intimate needs as well. For example, even before I was IDing as sexual, I'd still like to be naked and have my breasts sucked and rubbed, and would prefer to be naked as often as possible so they're always available for my partner. However, you know you can't do this with a sexual (and you yourself said you'd put a stop to it) because it WILL lead to them having a desire for sexual intimacy, so you either have to reject them or let them have sex with you which will cause the ace to start pulling away from any kind of intimacy to try to prevent that initiation. Even if you have a 'sex schedule' where you're giving your partner sex, you still no you really can't enjoy your own personal form of intimacy without that ever leading to your partner desiring sex, just as the sexual person will never be able to have sex with you in a way where you desire it as much as they do. 

 

That's exactly why a 'sensual' ace is better off with another ace, because you can both be as naked and dirty as possible and know the other one isn't going to becoming extremely uncomfortable wanting sex while the intimacy is happening. It's just not fair on a sexual to do the kinds of things Serran or I desired (and mine would never have involved a towel like hers did, haha!) when we were 'fully ace', so the ace will always lose in that situation even if they're trying to give their sexual partner as much sex as that person wants (despite the extreme emotional toll that will take on the ace).

 

7 hours ago, IronHamster said:

Teasing games are fine but they have to be set up to win.  

What Serran was talking about certainly wasn't 'teasing', it was the type of intimacy she, as an asexual (at the time), desired. Same with me desiring my breasts to be sucked and rubbed and played with. That IS the goal of what we wanted, and what we got most pleasure from. A lot of the fun and intimacy is taken away though as soon as it leads to sex, and knowing that, we'd never do that kind of thing with a sexual partner because it would just be torture for them.. or lead to us having to have sex. So yeah, like she said, the 'teasing' itself IS the win. I also always liked the feeling of a cock becoming erect (it's a pretty cool process) and with an ace you can feel it happening without either of you wanting to take that to sex. Probably sounds pretty extreme for a sexual not wanting sex in that situation but for a very sensual ace, that sort of thing can be really fun as long as it doesn't lead to sex.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
6 hours ago, vega57 said:

Wooooooooooow.  As I read this post, I could *feel* the "tension" just melting from my heart.  Your relationship sounds like pure HEAVEN to me.  There's a certain "innocence" about it.   There's love...and passion...and playfulness. 

 

Wow.  Just.                                        Wow.   

I agree!! And I found the same thing Serran described with my partner too. That's why I would sooooo recommend asexuals looking within the ace community for partners. Even if it turns out you're both less asexual than you previously thought, you still have the amazing privilege of knowing the other person will never expect sex from you and never be unhappy without it, no matter how flirty and 'teasing' you get with each other. It's almost impossible to describe how freeing that is, and brings levels of intimacy I'd never, ever experienced with 'fully' sexual people, who you always know will expect sex at least sometimes, which somehow just stops you wanting it at all :o I don't mean to sound like I'm negative about the sexual people here, it's just something very different that works for 'fully' sexual people (like, they love that always present knowledge of the desire for sex their partner has for them). For me, I'd feel hurt if I knew he didn't desire me at all, but at the same time I am overjoyed to know he desires me deeply but with that never leading to him expecting sex from me. and I feel the same for him. The love, the passion, the playfulness, all there with no necessity to have sex, ever. That somehow awakened a sexual energy within me I never knew I had, and now I can take things to sexual levels (if and when I want) that I never had any interest in before.. even when it's just over Skype from 11,500 miles apart, it's still an amazingly intimate friendship more enjoyable than anything I have ever had before ^_^

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IronHamster

Interesting,  @FictoVore..  What is exciting to you would be a chore for my stbx.  I guess we are all a little different.  It would be nice if we could all love our partners enough to be honest about our needs.  

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alibali
10 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Don't you get aroused, and feel the need to do something about it, even if not with a partner?

 

Is this a question? The answer is very occasionally I get tingly. Does it make me want to do something about it with or without a partner? No definitely not. So a teeny bit of biological response, but no urges.

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Telecaster68

I'm thoroughly confused now. 

 

Nipple sucking, stroking your partner's cock to feel him get hard, straddling him and kissing passionately while naked (or pretty much) are sexual activities. Not sex, but definitely sexual. If they were involved in an assault for instance, they'd make it a sexual assault, so legally speaking they're sexual. If you were doing it outside a relationship, I can't imagine a partner would view it as 'not sexual' in terms of fidelity.

 

To me, it's very clearly sexual, just not fucking. It involves two people, both inherently wanting contact with each others genitalia/erogenous zones, which is emotionally meaningful to them, and they both have a sense of loss if it doesn't happen.

 

Both of you have said that you've had the inherent desire to do these things with someone else. Not being able to do it with them (to avoid turning your partner on) distresses you. 

 

How is this asexual? The only difference is one of the partners is restricting themselves, and the other wants to go further. It's being sexual within a very limited range, almost like a young teenager who is too nervous of her own sexuality to go beyond second base.

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alibali

Who are you referring to Telecaster?

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Lucinda

I am not speaking for Serran or Pan, but neither one currently considers themselves asexual.  They haven't stated anything that would imply their current partners are restricting themselves nor that they themselves are nervous about exploring their sexuality.  In fact, they have both had sex in their previous relationships and found they did not find shagging nor the expectation of shagging desirable for them.

 

While you are right that their interactions with their current partners would be considered legally sexual, on a personal level you considered them "within a very limited range".  Since the endgame isn't shagging, and all parties agree, wouldn't these two be considered sexually compatible with their partners?  What if they consider their interactions more romantic and sensual than sexual, would you agree with that (keeping your "second base" comment in mind)?  What if they consider their interactions as sexual and desirable and passionate as they want, and the significant other in the relationship wholeheartedly agrees ... should we be confused?

 

Lucinda

 

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Telecaster68

Oh absolutely they don't consider themselves asexual now, but my reading was that they wanted to do these things - sexual things - when they considered themselves asexual, and found restraining themselves distressing, in exactly the same way a sexual person would.

 

They might consider wanting to have their nipples sucked or straddle their partner and kiss them passionately while pretty much naked as romantic rather than sexual, but it seems nonsense to me. I could consider PIV romantic and not sexual if I wanted to, but it wouldn't make much sense. Ficto is generally (rightly) amongst the first to call out those kind of ludicrous redefinitions, which is another reason it puzzles me.

 

I'm happy they've found compatible partners and I have no problem with them changing how they identify. 

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Lucinda
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

 

They might consider wanting to have their nipples sucked or straddle their partner and kiss them passionately while pretty much naked as romantic rather than sexual, but it seems nonsense to me. I could consider PIV romantic and not sexual if I wanted to, but it wouldn't make much sense. Ficto is generally (rightly) amongst the first to call out those kind of ludicrous redefinitions, which is another reason it puzzles me.

Well, if the intent in their previous relationships was for any interaction to not be a come on for PIV sex, what could they consider it so that it wouldn't seem like nonsense to you?

 

Perhaps they considered themselves "asexual" in the past because sexual interest, attraction, desire, energy did not enter their reality until they met their current partners and the expectation / necessity for PIV sex etc was not on the table?  Ironic?  Yes.  Ludicrous?  Apparently not.

 

Lucinda

 

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Telecaster68
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Well, if the intent in their previous relationships was for any interaction to not be a come on for PIV sex, what could they consider it so that it wouldn't seem like nonsense to you?

There is no intent that could possibly make wanting you nipples sucked, or stroking someone's cock to enjoy feeling it harden not sexual.

 

24 minutes ago, Lucinda said:

Perhaps they considered themselves "asexual" in the past because sexual interest, attraction, desire, energy did not enter their reality until they met their current partners and the expectation / necessity for PIV sex etc was not on the table?  Ironic?  Yes.  Ludicrous?  Apparently not.

Well obviously, that's what happened. I'm saying wanting those things and considering yourself asexual are contradictory.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
10 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Nipple sucking, stroking your partner's cock to feel him get hard, straddling him and kissing passionately while naked (or pretty much) are sexual activities.

And would you have been able to be happy in a sexual relationship with someone who literally never wanted those activities to go to sex, and wouldn't be able to enjoy the sex if you insisted they had to have it with you or you'd be unhappy? Could you think of any sexual person in the world who would be happy in a sexual relationship with a person who enjoyed any one of those things, but had zero interest in, or enjoyment for, any form of sex? (not just PiV, but literally anything involving partnered genital stimulation/sexual pleasure/orgasm)?

 

That's why the ace community has a term for 'sensual' aces, they are people who like and desire very sensual physical activities (like kissing each other's naked bodies all over) but for those activities to never lead to any form of partnered genital stimulation/sexual pleasure/orgasm. 

 

If a woman pushed her hand against your jeans and felt you going hard, and then just giggled and went back to the dishes never expecting it to lead to sex, or straddled you and kissed you passionately while she was wearing only a towel after getting out of the shower then went about her business never expecting to lead to sex, or asked you to kiss and suck and rub her breasts  because it feels physically good to her then went about her business because she never expected to lead to sex, would you ever be able to say 'I had sex with that woman' 'her and I have sex all the time' ..or anything like that? No. Because you never had sex with her. It's the sensual contact she enjoys and loves, but has no interest in any form of sex (you giving her oral or pleasing her sexually in any way, and vice versa, not just talking about PiV here). When she gets a sensual ace partner, he can enjoy those things just as much as she does, and would be as happy as she is that those things never have to lead to sex (I'm being heteronormative here, but just trying to emphasize the a sensual asexual male can want these things just as much as an ace female without wanting sex).

 

How would you describe your relationship with a woman like that, out of interest? If you hadn't heard of asexuality, would you say something like 'we're celibate but she does like some quite sexual-seeming things.. I'm constantly in agony though because she has no interest in sex and won't have it with me'

 

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on all this :) 

 

34 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

There is no intent that could possibly make wanting you nipples sucked, or stroking someone's cock to enjoy feeling it harden not sexual.

 

I'll spoiler the next part as it's just an explanation as to why and how I enjoyed those things I mentioned earlier. They definitely seem sexual, but the way I enjoyed them was certainly not sexual if you read in more detail about them (I still feel the same about the boob thing!). Plus Serran wanting to kiss her partner passionately while wearing a towel is actually not sexual at all for a sensual ace, that's just someone desiring a deep and loving kiss with the person they love!

 

Spoiler

The breast thing for me is especially important due to macromastia (meaning I have giant-sized boobs weighing almost 2KG/4Ibs each on a tiny body). They get very crushed in my bra as they don't really make cups for breasts like mine, I'm in cup-size big enough that your entire head would fit in one cup, and I'm still crushed. So I have to rub and stimulate my own breasts every day before bed to 'knead' all the crushed tissue back to softness, and have to 'pull' on the nipples, otherwise the pain can be unbearable just from having had a bra on. Even without a bra, they need that stimulation due to the weight.. it feels really good, like a foot massage, and the motion of 'sucking' on the nipple creates those 'contractions' in the skin that help loosen all the tightness inside as well - if that makes sense at all? So imagine having a woman who wanted you to do that for her constantly in the same way some women might want constantly want foot massages, but actually became very withdrawn and upset if you *ever* wanted that action to lead to sex? On the other hand, being with my partner now, he can want that just as much as I do but also literally couldn't care less if it never led to sex. That lack of preference for sex is able to make want more sexual activity than I ever did in the past, though STILL not PiV or receiving oral due to other issues I have.. so I still couldn't be with a 'fully' sexual person, but I'm sexual enough that I can't ID as asexual, also if you want more info about the cock thing: You can't deny it's cool feeling something all soft and squishy going magically hard and solid just from touching it... that would be the same regardless of what organ it is and whose body it's on. It's just that now, I would want that to move on to me eating it, whereas before (when I thought it was ace) it was literally a funny think like ''OMG that's so cool!!'' and obviously I couldn't DO any of the things I wanted with my sexual ex, like the breast massaging or 'touching his bits' because that would have just led to him wanting sex. So I never actually got to enjoy the idea of those things until I joined the asexual community.. ironically. lol.)

 

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Telecaster68

How I'd feel about being in a relationship with someone like that is completely irrelevant.

 

Let's say I buy your nipples being sucked because it's therapeutic, and getting your boyfriend hard as just 'cool'. Why did it bother you so much when you couldn't do them if that's all it is?

 

I don't mean to be nasty,  but if someone else was saying this stuff you'd be amongst the first to be skeptical. 

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Cnyb

limited sexuality is a thing.  If someone's limited sexuality has them being effectively/functionally asexual for a long period of time in terms of avoiding activities, feeling better off not doing the activities, that makes some sense they ID as asexual(ish). Then if with someone some limited sexuality becomes comfortable, there is adjustment of self-understanding, or some kind of range of (a/)sexualish fluidity.

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Cnyb

My viewpoint has been tending toward seeing 'asexuality' as simply describing degree/type of limitation of sexuality for a person belonging to a sexual species.  I.e., human beings are a sexual species, and many asexuals have gonads and reasonable levels of sex hormones and are not without sexual fantasies.  This is even if they do not masturbate to completion.  Then there is the idea that without masturbating to completion or arriving at actual penetrative sex, there are unconscious partial fulfillments, redirections, fetishizations, or sublimations which have their source in sexuality because, again, humans are a sexual species.

 

I.e., I'm inclined to view the asexual with apparently no sexual fantasies and seemingly no masturbation track-record as a sexual human being with very very very most extremely limited sexuality.  So most asexuals are just quite dark gray sexuals in my view of how the spectrum probably really is.  It is possible to have very low levels of sex hormones and to have absent genitalia, which is more fundamentally asexual, though frankly, as an example of a sexual species, thinking even of this as 'pure asexuality' is problematic.

 

It's all gray, I say.  (for now)  Oriented generally this way or that, sure, but I'm not a fan of solid orientation identifications either, as there is so much social construction involved and so much fluidity that gets overlooked.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

How I'd feel about being in a relationship with someone like that is completely irrelevant.

no I mean, would you call it a sexual relationship? are you in a sexual relationship with that person, or really not?

 

1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

Let's say I buy your nipples being sucked because it's therapeutic, and getting your boyfriend hard as just 'cool'. Why did it bother you so much when you couldn't do them if that's all it is?

When you can't do ANY of the sensual intimate things you enjoy, find fun and pleasurable, and are the type of intimacy that you can't share with anyone other than someone you love, then of course it's frustrating and painful not being able to have that with your partner. ESPECIALLY when you're giving your sexual partner exactly what THEY need all the time, but you know you'll just initiate more sex if you try to have the things that you love, so you never do them. That's why it 'bothered' both me (and Serran) and made us feel a lot less of an intimate connection with our partner than we otherwise would. It's exactly like you having to go without sex so your wife can have celibacy. It's the same thing but on the opposite side of the fence.

 

1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

I don't mean to be nasty,  but if someone else was saying this stuff you'd be amongst the first to be skeptical. 

I've always been very vocal about my support of sensual asexuality on AVEN. It is not in any way 'normal' or 'common' for someone to desire sensual activities (as many asexuals do) but have no desire to actually have sex with anyone, ever (no, I don't just mean PiV, I mean any form of genital stimulation for pleasure/orgasm). That sort of person is going to be most happy with another sensual asexual person. If they both just said 'yeah I'm a regular sexual person' they're going to end up very unhappy in a sexual relationship with a very unhappy sexual partner, no different than any other mixed sexual/asexual couple who suffer from total sexual disparity in their relationship. Yet if they say 'I'm a sensual asexual' then they have a much higher chance of finding a compatible sensual asexual partner where they can both be happy intimately :)

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Serran
4 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Oh absolutely they don't consider themselves asexual now, but my reading was that they wanted to do these things - sexual things - when they considered themselves asexual, and found restraining themselves distressing, in exactly the same way a sexual person would.

 

They might consider wanting to have their nipples sucked or straddle their partner and kiss them passionately while pretty much naked as romantic rather than sexual, but it seems nonsense to me. I could consider PIV romantic and not sexual if I wanted to, but it wouldn't make much sense. Ficto is generally (rightly) amongst the first to call out those kind of ludicrous redefinitions, which is another reason it puzzles me.

 

I'm happy they've found compatible partners and I have no problem with them changing how they identify. 

Erm. I didn't want contact with erogenous zones. I just wanted to be able to sit on someones lap and kiss, or be naked around them, etc without sex ever being expected, stuff like that. It never stirred any sexual feelings at all. And it's not the towel specifically I desired, but the freedom to do it no matter what I was wearing :P Like, if it's laundry day I might walk around in my bra and panties just cause I want to wash all my outer clothes. My ex always took that as sexual as well, so couldn't do it. If I take a shower, my hair takes forever to dry cause it's thick and curly and (when it was long) towel drying or blow drying it makes it super frizzy (CURLY HAIR ISSUES), so I sometimes would prefer to walk around in a towel but again could not do it cause to him it was sexual to do anything in a towel. 

 

Would it  be considered sexual assault if I kissed someone while sitting on their lap and they didn't want it? Yes. Would absolutely anyone consider themselves in a sexual relationship with me if that's as far as we went? No one I know. Would anyone consider sitting on someones lap and kissing them sex? Again, no one I know. So, if I didn't get turned on by my exes and I didn't want them to get turned on by me and I never wanted my breasts or genitals touched, I just wanted to be playful... yeah I considered that lacking sexual attraction or desire for partnered sex. Kissing and cuddling is as far as I was interested in things going. And kissing like that didn't turn me on. First time I did feel being turned on was confusing and disorienting, honestly. It was like "Huh... ok... that's a lot different than I thought it was from reading about it!" :lol: 

 

As for why I like being on top of a person like that, it has nothing to do with their genitals. And I tend to (if I think about it) sit a little up/down to avoid that area. I like the feel of being in control that happens when they can't get up until you say so. Which, again, in the past was never a sexual thrill - sometimes it can become one with my current partner, but often it's really just fun. I enjoy being dominate sometimes. 

 

As for why I used to consider myself asexual... cause I never wanted any genital contact, I never wanted stimulation, when we made out I would constantly ask to keep hands on the hips and not go to breasts/genitals cause I hated it, I never got turned on, I never even masturbated, sex was tiring and awful, oral sex was gross and annoying, someone trying to give me an orgasm was an eye roll sigh inducing "ARE YOU DONE YET?", the being bought sex toys to try harder gave me an urge to throw them all away cause they weren't listening to the fact I do not enjoy any of this sexual touching stuff so just stop already, there are better things to spend money on. 

 

And I have never been against the idea asexuals can still be affectionate / playful or even indulge in kink play. In fact, I have been active in the kink thread for quite a while. It makes perfect sense to me that people could tie each other up, pin each other down, etc and it never turn into either one get sexually excited, even if they were to do it naked. I think this is a big thing that someone who always would get sexually excited at such things will have a very hard time understanding. And I get it now, honestly. I couldn't do such things with my current partner all the time and not get sexually excited at least some of the time. But, in the past, it never, ever caused that reaction. No matter what I did. But, some things were still fun for other reasons. However, as I said before, everything was filtered through "Would this sexually frustrate my partner?", cause a lot of stuff I like was sexual, to them. Even if to me, it was stand alone and had nothing to do with causing sexual arousal or any sexual touching. Which, having to constantly run everything through that filter throws up a wall between you and your partner. Just like, I'm sure sexual partners in mixed relationships feel a bit restricted when they have to hold themselves back from things, cause their asexual partner might think they're trying to initiate sex and they don't want to spook them. 

 

But, as someone else pointed out, I don't ID as asexual anymore. Because now I do feel sexual excitement at some things. I do desire sexual touch based on it. I do get turned on. I don't consider it annoying and frustrating. I don't feel like a huge distance is between myself and my partner if things turn sexual, like I always did in the past due to not desiring it and actively desiring to not do it. 

 

And, I'm not saying my orientation "changed" - I most likely have always been this way, but I require the trust/comfort levels of being able to never, ever be expected to have sex to desire anything myself. Which is why I could never figure it out before. Everyone else viewed everything as "sex should be the end goal, cause this is so turning me on" and that kept a wall between us that never allowed what I have now. Because it ruined the fun of anything - kisses, hugs, cuddling, etc and instead of those activities making me feel closer, they made me feel further apart from my exes. Physical intimacy of any form ended up being a carefully calculated dance around their desire for sex, to avoid triggering it. 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
28 minutes ago, Serran said:

As for why I used to consider myself asexual... cause I never wanted any genital contact, I never wanted stimulation, when we made out I would constantly ask to keep hands on the hips and not go to breasts/genitals cause I hated it, I never got turned on, I never even masturbated, sex was tiring and awful, oral sex was gross and annoying, someone trying to give me an orgasm was an eye roll sigh inducing "ARE YOU DONE YET?", the being bought sex toys to try harder gave me an urge to throw them all away cause they weren't listening to the fact I do not enjoy any of this sexual touching stuff so just stop already, there are better things to spend money on. 

Yep my experience was exactly like that as well. While I say I love the idea of breast stimulation personally, it would never have been a 'turn on' or anything if my sexual partner had done it (and I never would have asked him to either) but 1) he never did anyway thankfully, and 2) it would have just been a turn off if he had because I'd know it was leading to sex. It still would not be a 'turn on' for me having my partner stimulating my breasts now, it really is a need for relief from that pain that I have to do for myself daily anyway, and it's not something ANYONE who is not a romantic sensual partner can do.

 

And regarding the orgasm thing, that's one of the things I hated MOST about being with my sexual partner and other sexual people I had sex with, it was their insistence on trying to make me orgasm.. it's one of the absolute worst parts of sex for me when someone does that. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN SO JUST GET IT OVER WITH, OKAY??? Even at the brothel, clients would insist on doing the things that would make me orgasm and it was soooooo tiring and frustrating having to constantly fake that sort of interest.. I did NOT get paid enough for that shit  (and my ex took all the money I made anyway Y_Y). Yes, I totally understand that for a sexual person, seeing their partner orgasm is a massive turn on and helps them feel mutually desired and all that, but that kind of pressure is (and always was) an INSTANT turn off for me.. even now if my partner tried that I'd be hurt, upset, and angry at him (seriously, if I want to orgasm I'll do it myself thank you, don't you EVER try to force it to happen of your own volition) ...though I know he never would do that unless I asked specifically, so I don't need to worry about it any more :) 

 

Quote

And, I'm not saying my orientation "changed" - I most likely have always been this way, but I require the trust/comfort levels of being able to never, ever be expected to have sex to desire anything myself. Which is why I could never figure it out before. Everyone else viewed everything as "sex should be the end goal, cause this is so turning me on" and that kept a wall between us that never allowed what I have now. Because it ruined the fun of anything - kisses, hugs, cuddling, etc and instead of those activities making me feel closer, they made me feel further apart from my exes. Physical intimacy of any form ended up being a carefully calculated dance around their desire for sex, to avoid triggering it. 

And all this too, it was exactly the same for me, word for word (and pretty much everything else you said, lol) :cake:

 

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roland.o
12 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

as they don't really make cups for breasts like mine

There are some companys that manufacture custom-made bras. This one here, for example, even claims to be affordable:

https://www.optifitbra.com/

 

Or you could make your own...

https://www.vogue.com/article/custom-bra-trend-cupperware-parties-boob-camp

 

And some are 3D-printing cups...

https://www.3ders.org/articles/20160424-bra-theory-is-developing-3d-modeled-bras-to-give-you-the-perfect-fit.html

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Telecaster68

If I was in a relationship with a woman who wanted me to suck her nipples and wanted to get my cock hard, absolutely it's sexual. I might not be getting what I want sexually, but it's certainly not platonic is it?

 

Would you employ a medical professional to suck your nipples? Or suggest to a platonic friend you hold his cock for a bit because it's 'cool'?

 

However you slice it, those things are sexual.

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Thea2
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

... Would you employ a medical professional to suck your nipples?

Context and the intention of the people involved is everything.

 

In Victorian times, Ladies 'of a nervous disposition' would on a regular basis visit their physician to be masturbated by him, it was considered a medical procedure.

(I have no source, so go ahead and slaughter me :ph34r:, I remember reading this somewhere once).

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Telecaster68

I agree it's everything,  and the context here is that both Serran and Ficto said that they wanted this to be part of their relationship. In other words it has some emotional value to them. 

 

If it was PIV they were missing,  Ficto would be quick to criticise someone who claimed 'but this isn't sexual'. I've seen her do it. 

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Thea2
11 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I agree it's everything,  and the context here is that both Serran and Ficto said that they wanted this to be part of their relationship. In other words it has some emotional value to them. 

 

If it was PIV they were missing,  Ficto would be quick to criticise someone who claimed 'but this isn't sexual'. I've seen her do it. 

@Telecaster68 Ficto indeed does not equate 'not-PIV' with 'not-sexual'. But again, context and the intention of the people involved is everything. 'Emotional' value, not 'sexual' value - these are different feelings.

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IronHamster

Telecaster is dead nuts right on the money on this.  Within the context of today's society, breast play and cock play are absolutely sexual beyond any reasonable doubt.  Ask any lawyer what would happen if you played with your employees breasts or cocks at work.  

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