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PoisonPoppy

Is sex really that important for a relationship?

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Always looking for answers
On 22-12-2017 at 12:01 PM, Telecaster68 said:

Yes, that's the aspect I can understand and sympathise with. The bit I don't get is when asexuals don't feel sexual activity is anything to do with intimacy, but then feel the same kind of visceral, personal pain that most sexuals would have. To me, that means they do in fact have some emotional connection to sexuality after all. Perhaps they have other reasons for not wanting to acknowledge it even to themselves, but it's there. 

I can't speak for others, but for me sexual activity has indeed nothing to do with intimacy, but hearing over and over again that for sexuals this is the case actually makes me afraid my partner wouldn't just form a bond with someone he can have sexual activities with but actually form a STRONGER and BETTER bond with that someone and that would leave me alone again.

 

So for me, the only emotions I experience around sex are fear, disgust and insecurity because I've been traded in for some fuck-buddy one time too many. If I would have had the experience that a girl on the side for sex was enough for a partner, I would be perfectly fine with my partner finding his relief somewhere else.  

But the fact that I don't want to have sex does not mean I can't love someone or feel hurt when I'm traded in for someone else.

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Telecaster68

I can understand all that, and I agree your fears are well founded. It must be hard. 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
40 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yes, that's the aspect I can understand and sympathise with. The bit I don't get is when asexuals don't feel sexual activity is anything to do with intimacy, but then feel the same kind of visceral, personal pain that most sexuals would have. To me, that means they do in fact have some emotional connection to sexuality after all. Perhaps they have other reasons for not wanting to acknowledge it even to themselves, but it's there. 

Well as I was saying before, they still feel that genitals and being naked with someone are very private things.. They're not immune to finding genitals and naked bodies very private. Like, my 100% asexual ex partner would still have freaked if I showed my boobs or genitals to anyone else, even though he had no interest in the latter at all. If you're a sexual person who has no interest at all in anal sex and even finds it quite gross, then find out your wife had anal sex with someone.. you're still going to freak even if she's like 'But you don't even like it so what's the issue?' ..Okay so maybe that's not the best example lol, but what if you found out she'd been secretly visiting a BDSM club and not actually having sex, but walking around naked whipping people? Even though sex itself isn't involved, would you still feel the confines of your relationship had been violated? Or maybe if you found your wife had secretly been visiting a nudist colony and didn't want you to know? An asexual can feel exactly the same way about their partner being naked with someone else (and many asexuals do desire the intimacy of being naked with their partner) even if sex itself isn't important to them. What if she was meeting secretly with a man and no sex was happening, but he had a thing for spanking and they spanked each other clothed in his office each day, and kissed and fondled each other through their clothes a bit.. would you still be hurt by that even though no actual sex happened? Because an asexual can be just as hurt by those things too as it's not the sex that matters, it's the fact that your partner is being intimate in a private way with someone else.

 

2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I completely understand that an asexual can be hurt by holding hands, intimate conversations between their partner and someone else, because both imply emotional intimacy.

But being casually naked around someone else is also emotional intimacy.. And an asexual does know that if you're having sex with someone else you're not both fully clothed, not talking at all, quickly rubbing your genitals together then running away in opposite directions. The ace might be fine with that, if it was literally just genitals meeting in a completely cold and impersonal way and then you both run away without speaking to each other.. but most people know sex involves a lot more than that. Even without the actual genitals meeting, being naked with someone else is still emotionally intimate in a way nothing else is and both people do generally get naked and kiss and touch each other intimately and whisper sweet things together during sex.. so even without the sex itself, it's still painful knowing your partner is doing those things with someone else. (And yes, I know it's just as painful for the sexual going without the intimacy, I'm just trying to explain it from the ace perspective here).

 

2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I think you're conflating mine and Hamster's views a little too much.

Sorry about that!! I apologize if it came across that way :cake:

 

2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Are they going unmet? Sometimes asexuals list their non-sexual emotional needs and they tend to be about conversations, shared experiences, trust, etc. I don't see why any of those should be missing.

 

If you mean asexuals' emotional needs aren't being met because they know their partner is unhappy, then one way of dealing with that is not to insist on sexual monogamy. If they feel they can't do that, I'd come back to my point about what they're asking of their partner: that their partner's needs are subordinate to their own and no compromise is to be made. No relationship is going to survive that.

I should have explained this part better. When I was with my sexual ex, the biggest need I had (and I still have it now!!) was to be loved romantically and accepted intimately without need for or expectation of sex, ever. This is something that many, many asexuals feel deep down but sometimes don't even recognize that they have this desire, but it's of course something that no sexual partner can give them in the same way no asexual can ever give the sexual partner what they truly desire deep down: to be desired sexually. The asexual can't really go out and find that elsewhere, because if they're monogamous then it's their specific romantic partner they desire that 'love without sexual expectation' from, so it can be shattering for them knowing their partner is going out meeting their specific need with other people while the asexual can never get their need met from the sexual person they love.. the sexual partner will probably never even be able to understand that need or take it seriously. Obviously I don't expect many people to understand this, and the asexual themselves knows the desire to be loved romantically without expectation of sex can never be met by a sexual, but that doesn't stop them from desiring it deep down on an almost visceral level. But believe me, that need to be loved romantically without expectation of sexual intimacy can be just as powerful and achingly painful as the desire to actually connect sexually with your lover/be desired sexually by your lover, and it can be just as hurtful knowing you're always going to have to go without it as the price for loving that person. Try to imagine feeling like that, then also knowing your partner is sharing deeply intimate, sensual, naked privacy with other people.. when  you yourself have to go with your needs unmet. It's a double edged sword for both partners unfortunately, but that kind of intimacy outside a relationship can hurt an asexual just as much as it does a sexual, because as always it's more about the intimacy and the closeness itself than the sex.

 

As a side-note, for me, finally having those needs met made me actively want sex :P But obviously for an actual asexual, having those needs met just makes them feel mutually emotionally satisfied with their partner.. which is just another of the many reasons why it would be great for everyone if there were enough asexuals that they could all find a perfect romantic relationship with another ace!

 

2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

 

But where sex isn't about closeness and bonding for a couple, like if one of them's asexual, then sex isn't that unique, couple-strengthening, one on one experience. To that extent, there's no monogamy (or depending on how you define it, there could be monogamy, but it would have no value).

 

My opinions on this part are very strong.. especially if sex is actually happening. I gave my ex sex twice a day, every day, and he still cheated regularly (bringing home diseases as well) because it wasn't the type of sex he wanted as I didn't enjoy or desire it the way other women did even though I tried to pretend to. I didn't know about asexuality back then, obviously, and assumed it hurt everyone physically as much as it did me, whereas I know now I have an actual chronic pain disorder in my hoohaa that prevents most women who have it from being able to have pleasurable genital stimulation. Now, I certainly was not giving up my rights to monogamy, or making our monogamy have less value or whatever, just because I didn't enjoy or want the sex I gave him, and the cheating (knowing he was enjoying intimacy with other people and I could never have the type of expectationless intimacy I desired) hurt just as much as if my sexual partner now cheated, or if my asexual partner cheated by kissing another girl. It still all hurts just the same because it's not so much the sex that's the issue, it's the emotional intimacy. He still had a responsibility to remain monogamous to me though, in the same way I felt I had a responsibility to keep giving him agonizingly painful sex twice a day even if my own emotional needs were going totally unmet. 

 

I'm also of the controversial opinion though that if you refuse to give your partner sex, ever, even though you know they desire it, then you kind of need to expect that they may leave you for that.. because you're compromising their happiness for your own even if they also can never give you the thing that would make you happy, which is them loving you romantically without needing sex from you. I will always disagree with cheating personally, and if I was in that situation would much rather my partner left than cheated (I think most people would prefer that deep down, if they had to choose) but yeah, again, these are all just reasons why an asexual/sexual relationship will almost never work!

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
12 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I can understand all that, and I agree your fears are well founded. It must be hard. 

*not going to make an inappropriate joke about hardness*

 

But yeah, that's obviously another legitimate fear that I failed to mention in my comment.. knowing your partner may form a stronger bond with someone else and leave you. Though of course, my solution in that situation is trying to find things you can do together that won't be too much for the asexual, but that can still at least partially satisfy the sexual. Like the sexual being able to masturbate while you kiss naked, or he can wank onto his ace partners breasts or whatever.. trying to find something to keep both partners as happy as possible, if at all possible.

 

edit: I sneezed when I was clicking the colours and accidentally made this orange instead of green haha, oh well, it looks quite nice so I'll leave it as orange :P

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IronHamster

All those choices seem erotic, but, let's say that she did have some sexual need I was not into, or maybe I did not have the right body parts for, as in the case of a bisexual.  Well, we could either look for a unicorn, or I could help her find a third that could meet her needs.  If she was looking for an emotional connection, odds are I would become friends with them also because I already had a deep connection with my partner in the first place, and he or she would be similar to me. 

 

Let's say my partner wanted to stick her finger in my eye, and she was really into it, but I wasn't.  I would be happy for her if she could find another guy or girl that wanted her to stick her finger in her eye.  If we wanted, we could even lay down ground rules that they could not get emotionally attached.  I am not really worried about that but some people are, so...  

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alibali
1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yes, that's the aspect I can understand and sympathise with. The bit I don't get is when asexuals don't feel sexual activity is anything to do with intimacy, but then feel the same kind of visceral, personal pain that most sexuals would have. To me, that means they do in fact have some emotional connection to sexuality after all. Perhaps they have other reasons for not wanting to acknowledge it even to themselves, but it's there. 

The main issue is trust not to do with sex. It would be, this person who I treasure and value and share everything with, other than sex with has seen fit to do something fundamental to a relationship (from their perspective) with someone else, without talking about it and agreeing things together. 

 

If an open relationship was a compromise agreed to between both I wouldn't have an issue. Well unless they did form a bond and it threatened the marriage. Then the justification for going outside the marriage rather than splitting up is kind of null and void.

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Always looking for answers
12 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

I'm also of the controversial opinion though that if you refuse to give your partner sex, ever, even though you know they desire it, then you kind of need to expect that they may leave you for that.. because you're compromising their happiness for your own even if they also can never give you the thing that would make you happy, which is them loving you romantically without needing sex from you. I will always disagree with cheating personally, and if I was in that situation would much rather my partner left than cheated (I think most people would prefer that deep down, if they had to choose) but yeah, again, these are all just reasons why an asexual/sexual relationship will almost never work!

I guess this depends on how much it's a matter of not 'willing to' or 'can't'.

 

In the past I've had sex with all the guys I was in a relationship with. One big problem was: I suffered from vaginismus. This meant pain during sex upto two days after. So I would be in pain almost have of the week for that other person to be happy. I don't like sounding like a victim, but I can't help but state that I always was the one that made a sacrifice in order to make the other happy. And I know, sex is more than penetration but after being brainwashed from a very young age that 'sex is painful and disgusting but if you don't want you husband to leave you, you'll need to give him sex every now and then' and having an experience of rape, I really can't get over the 'sex is disgusting' part so oral isn't an option either. 

For me it is only a small part of not wanting to comprise but after years of sacrifice it became a matter of can't promise because I can't even think of sacrificing again without tears burning in my eyes. I've reached the point I can't give in anymore without risking a mental breakdown. So no, not giving my partner sex doesn't make me 'happy', it makes me not lose my sanity.

I learned the hard way that it doesn't matter if I'm hurting whilst having sex. To most guys I've been with it didn't even matter if I cried whilst having sex. As long as they got what they needed it was all fine. So in a way everything my mother taught me turned out to be true (at least in my life, I hope others have had a less painful and mentally destroying path).

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IronHamster
3 minutes ago, Always looking for answers said:

I guess this depends on how much it's a matter of not 'willing to' or 'can't'.

...

I learned the hard way that it doesn't matter if I'm hurting whilst having sex. To most guys I've been with it didn't even matter if I cried whilst having sex. As long as they got what they needed it was all fine. So in a way everything my mother taught me turned out to be true (at least in my life, I hope others have had a less painful and mentally destroying path).

I am so sorry to hear.  My wife's lack of interest in sex is the reason my body shut down dealing with her sexually.  I have no problem with hugs, but I do not want to have sex with someone that does not desire me sexually.   I do not get what I want from that.  

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
28 minutes ago, Always looking for answers said:

I guess this depends on how much it's a matter of not 'willing to' or 'can't'.

 

In the past I've had sex with all the guys I was in a relationship with. One big problem was: I suffered from vaginismus. This meant pain during sex upto two days after. So I would be in pain almost have of the week for that other person to be happy. I don't like sounding like a victim, but I can't help but state that I always was the one that made a sacrifice in order to make the other happy. And I know, sex is more than penetration but after being brainwashed from a very young age that 'sex is painful and disgusting but if you don't want you husband to leave you, you'll need to give him sex every now and then' and having an experience of rape, I really can't get over the 'sex is disgusting' part so oral isn't an option either. 

For me it is only a small part of not wanting to comprise but after years of sacrifice it became a matter of can't promise because I can't even think of sacrificing again without tears burning in my eyes. I've reached the point I can't give in anymore without risking a mental breakdown. So no, not giving my partner sex doesn't make me 'happy', it makes me not lose my sanity.

I learned the hard way that it doesn't matter if I'm hurting whilst having sex. To most guys I've been with it didn't even matter if I cried whilst having sex. As long as they got what they needed it was all fine. So in a way everything my mother taught me turned out to be true (at least in my life, I hope others have had a less painful and mentally destroying path).

This may be TMI for some

 

I was in exactly the same situation for years with my ex. However, it doesn't change the fact that if you can't give them sex, you need to be open to the idea of them leaving no matter how unhappy you are about not being able to give them sex. HOWEVER.. well, let me explain a little.

 

I have vestibulodynia which causes agonizing pain upon penetration, though they hardly even know what causes it let alone how to treat it. My, er, genitals, would swell up after sex and I also could often hardly walk.. it's in the nerves themselves, as opposed to the muscles clenching like with vaginismus. I can only compare the pain to a burn from boiling water, like if someone poured boiling water inside the vagina and over the vulva etc. They pain would last for days, making walking almost unbearable, and would accumulate with every time I had to have sex. I had to have sex with my ex twice a day, and he also forced me into prostitution for two years under threat of violence, murder, etc etc.. I had to drink all day every day just to be able to live with the physical pain I was in Y_Y Even without the abuse though, 'normal' sex would have been impossible for me without pain. And yes, it's quite scary how many men won't care if you're in pain during sex.. often they actually seem to enjoy it more :/

 

Now to the good part though. I left my sexual ex (ran away actually, after 5 years) and was very happily celibate for 6 years after that. I discovered the label 'asexual', figured that must be what I am (because even if the pain didn't exist, I really wasn't interested in sex at all) and eventually, at age 28, met someone on AVEN who was also identifying as asexual when we met.. but now we are hypersexual with each other! It turns out that there are actually men out there who will have absolutely no interest in doing anything that would cause you pain, and just want to love you for exactly who you are! He gave me so much love, kindness, and intimacy, with absolutely no expectation of any kind of sex, that I realized I started wanting sex with him.. and when I wanted it with him, he started wanting it back. We discovered together that there is all sorts of amazing, sexual, intimate fun you can have together where the vagina itself never needs to become involved, so now I can enjoy any kind of sex I want, whenever I want, knowing I'll never ever have to have anything shoved inside my vagina again.. and my partner wants it that way too. He knows he could never, ever enjoy anything that would cause me actual pain so has literally no desire to do anything even remotely penetrative to that part of me. Yet even if I never wanted any kind of sex, he'd still be just as overjoyed and happy to know me, and would love me just as much as he does now.

 

So what I'm saying is, there ARE men out there who will love you exactly the way that you are without ever expecting to shove themselves into your vagina, it's just a matter of finding those ones and not giving the rest of them the time of day :) A man isn't worth your love if the price you have to pay for loving him is allowing him to torture you sexually for his own pleasure.. it's just scary when put that way. :cake:

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E
On 11/30/2017 at 7:33 AM, PoisonPoppy said:

More so aimed at sexual/ asexual relationships but obviously open to all answers. Like, as an asexual I don't see what wrong with being loving, affectionate, cuddling, kissing and spending my life with someone without sex (other than to have kids).

 

1. Is sex really an important part of a relationship?

2. If it is, what would you compare its importance to? 

3. How would you compromise as an asexual? 

 

1. It is important if you're involved with a partner who has a sexual orientation, yes. Any functioning and long lasting relationship between people is comprised of two factors, physical and mental. Physical being sexual attraction and needs, mental being personality compatability. The majority of relationships are founded on physical attraction first, and it's usually later that two people find out of they are mentally compatible with one another. This is why so many relationships are so short lived. It was physical attraction that lured them together but different mental states that drove them apart. In a relationship, sexual gratification is often needed for either partner because they have a mental need for it. If the need is not met, problems occur.

 

2. Everything. Have a woman go around and tell people that her partner is lousy in bed or vice versa, and you have the fastest ticket to a completely destroyed relationship. For the rest, see point number 1.

 

3. I'd do my best to figure something out if I ever had a partner. My goal in a relationship is to make my partner happy. There is no obstacle I do not try to adamantly overcome when it comes to people I care about.

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Thea2
4 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

...  the biggest need I had (and I still have it now!!) was to be loved romantically and accepted intimately without need for or expectation of sex, ever...

I feel like that too.

 

I think about that as that I'm looking for (a substitute experience of) a mother.

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flesh-pocket

along the lines of sex being an important part of a relationship or not...

 

is there anyone on this forum that has continued to ID as asexual after they have found someone who loves them romantically and intimately without the expectation of sex?

 

ive been on this forum for awhile now, and keep going back and forth on whether or not i qualify for the asexual label, but i feel that need very strongly. it disheartens me to think that if i ever found what im looking for, it would be at the price of what i thought i knew about myself being proven wrong. id like to think that a truly romantic, intimate, non-sexual, happy relationship can really exist. 

 

so to @FictoVore., if your partner suddenly stopped wanting to participate in anything sexual with you, much like the asexual partners of the other sexual people in this thread, would it negatively effect your relationship?   

 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
5 hours ago, flesh-pocket said:

along the lines of sex being an important part of a relationship or not...

 

is there anyone on this forum that has continued to ID as asexual after they have found someone who loves them romantically and intimately without the expectation of sex?

 

ive been on this forum for awhile now, and keep going back and forth on whether or not i qualify for the asexual label, but i feel that need very strongly. it disheartens me to think that if i ever found what im looking for, it would be at the price of what i thought i knew about myself being proven wrong. id like to think that a truly romantic, intimate, non-sexual, happy relationship can really exist. 

 

so to @FictoVore., if your partner suddenly stopped wanting to participate in anything sexual with you, much like the asexual partners of the other sexual people in this thread, would it negatively effect your relationship?   

 

That's one of the reasons I don't ID as asexual anymore because I think I'd feel hurt but more like.. ugly and fat etc if he didn't desire me? And I'd be convinced in my brain he must be into  someone younger etc even if I knew logically that was incorrect.. but it's the desire thats important, more than the sex itself. As long as he desires that intimacy with me and makes that clear regularly through words and actions (which he does regularly) then I'm happy even if we don't have any actual sex. And 'sex' is weird for me because it doesn't need to involve anything more than (TMI sex stuff!!!!!)

 

 

having my boobs wanked onto so I can lick it off, or getting to suck him multiple times a day and having him cum in my mouth, as two random examples

 

I only need something as basic as that to feel sexually satisfied, and don't need to be sexually stimulated myself in any way. Because it's his desire to do those things *to* me that satisfies me. As long as he wants to do things to me then I'm happy regardless of whether or not I myself am orgasming.

 

Oh also I did have an 18-month-long asexual relationship in between leaving me sexual ex and meeting my current partner (we've been together over a year now). Even though my asexual partner did love me and feel 'attraction' (of a sort, like, aesthetic) for me, and had quite a high libido and was into a lot of non-sexual kink, he would still be shocked or horrified at the idea of actual sex (anything involving genitals) and never would have done anything that involved his own clothes coming off or my pants coming off. He's an asexual who will never want sex no matter what, it's just a matter for him of finding an ace girl who feels the same!! I had no desire for sexual intimacy with him either as I was happy with the non-sexual kink, but yeah even asking for shirtless pic would make him recoil in horror haha. So they are out there even if it seems like the majority of asexuals 'become' sexual when they meet the right person :P

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flesh-pocket
4 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

As long as he desires that intimacy with me and makes that clear regularly through words and actions (which he does regularly) then I'm happy even if we don't have any actual sex. And 'sex' is weird for me because it doesn't need to involve anything more than (TMI sex stuff!!!!!)

thank you for the response. your experience of desire sounds much the same as other sexuals on this site have posted about. i guess what im after is a desire-less romantic relationship (if im not aromantic, which is another can of worms) 

 

just to clarify, by sexual things i meant all sexual things, not just "sex." sexual things being, doing things together for the sexual pleasure of either party. the examples you listed would qualify, as would stuff like dry humping, cybersex, mutual masturbation, etc. 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
1 hour ago, flesh-pocket said:

thank you for the response. your experience of desire sounds much the same as other sexuals on this site have posted about. i guess what im after is a desire-less romantic relationship (if im not aromantic, which is another can of worms) 

 

just to clarify, by sexual things i meant all sexual things, not just "sex." sexual things being, doing things together for the sexual pleasure of either party. the examples you listed would qualify, as would stuff like dry humping, cybersex, mutual masturbation, etc. 

Do you mean desireless, but *with* sex(ual things) or with no desire for sexual things? It's confusing because sometimes people here say 'I love having sex in my relationship but I don't *desire my partner*, it's the sex I desire, not my partner.. so I'm still asexual". Haha.. I find that quite odd because what's important IS that my partner desires sex.. with me. If he said 'i don't desire anything remotely sexual with you at all ever, but I still desire you, don't worry'... Then that just sounds like an asexual person because he's still not wanting sex, and I'm sure any sexual person here would 1) ask how is he defining desire and 2) they'd all feel like they were in a relationship with an asexual if their partner was like that. And I know people say that it's the 'with you' part that's important, but it's not like the asexual-identifying person who says they 'desire sex' means that they will have it with literally any person alive who will have them :P that's 1) not asexual, and 2) the fact that they'll choose some people to have sex with over others shows that they're no different than any other sexual person who desires sex, but has preferences as to whom they have it with!

 

So yeah, haha.. my rambling aside, do you mean you want a romantic relationship with sex but not 'desire', or that you want one that's free from the desire for any kind of sexual intimacy? (that's what I wanted too, before I met my partner!) :)

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Thea2
On 23-12-2017 at 1:09 AM, FictoVore. said:

Do you mean desireless, but *with* sex(ual things) or with no desire for sexual things? It's confusing because sometimes people here say 'I love having sex in my relationship but I don't *desire my partner*, it's the sex I desire, not my partner.. so I'm still asexual". Haha.. I find that quite odd because what's important IS that my partner desires sex.. with me. If he said 'i don't desire anything remotely sexual with you at all ever, but I still desire you, don't worry'... Then that just sounds like an asexual person because he's still not wanting sex, and I'm sure any sexual person here would 1) ask how is he defining desire and 2) they'd all feel like they were in a relationship with an asexual if their partner was like that. And I know people say that it's the 'with you' part that's important, but it's not like the asexual-identifying person who says they 'desire sex' means that they will have it with literally any person alive who will have them :P that's 1) not asexual, and 2) the fact that they'll choose some people to have sex with over others shows that they're no different than any other sexual person who desires sex, but has preferences as to whom they have it with!

 

So yeah, haha.. my rambling aside, do you mean you want a romantic relationship with sex but not 'desire', or that you want one that's free from the desire for any kind of sexual intimacy? (that's what I wanted too, before I met my partner!) :)

Desire is used in various ways:

 

1

Asexual: I don't desire

my partner,

but I desire having sex.

 

2

Asexual: I don't desire

anything remotely sexual at all ever,

but I desire my partner.

 

3

Sexual: I desire

sex with my partner.

 

For me:

Have been 1 in the past, I call that lust.

Am currently 2 (no partner now), I call that liking/love.

Am aspiring to 3, I call that 'in love'.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
9 hours ago, Thea2 said:

 

1

Asexual: I don't desire

my partner,

but I desire having sex.

 

3

Sexual: I desire

sex with my partner.

 

If that person in number one desires sex and has it with their partner (for pleasure) then their reasons for why they have sex with their partner in particular (be that love, lust, comfort, whatever) and not someone else are irrelevant, they're still choosing to have sex with someone specific, ergo.... they're not any different from any other sexual person who chooses to have sex with someone specific (even if that person is an ugly stranger willing to have sex who they just picked up in a bar, which yes some sexuals have sex in those situations with absolutely no 'attraction' to the person at all).  And I know for a fact you're not saying that the 'asexual' person in number one would literally screw anyone, anyone in the entire world without preference, but chooses only to have it with their partner because it's that person they happen to be in a relationship with. There is a reason they're choosing their sexual partner over someone else, and whatever that reason is, it shows sexual preference based on any number of criteria unique to that individual. Ergo, we are describing a regular sexual person.

 

Sexual people desire sex with whoever they have sex with (even the ugly stranger they just met at a bar, for some sexuals) for any number of reasons, and sometimes it really is as simple as 'I just want to fuck and as long as you're willing and legal, so am I'. They aren't suddenly asexual if this is their repeated sexual behavior throughout their entire life, sexual people can want sex with absolutely no preference to appearance and some of them actually prefer casual encounters instead of having steady relationships.. and that doesn't make them less sexual just because it's no one specific that they desire sexually.

 

9 hours ago, Thea2 said:

Am aspiring to 3, I call that love.

I think even most sexual people here would agree that just wanting sex with your partner isn't necessarily love.. Sexual intimacy is one expression of love that many (most) sexual people find integral to their emotional satisfaction in a romantic relationship, but just wanting sex with someone specific doesn't mean it's automatically 'love', or that love even needs to be involved. But if that's how you personally want to define love then I'm not going to stop you! :cake:

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MrDane
15 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

 

 

I think even most sexual people here would agree that just wanting sex with your partner isn't necessarily love.. Sexual intimacy is one expression of love that many (most) sexual people find integral to their emotional satisfaction in a romantic relationship, but just wanting sex with someone specific doesn't mean it's automatically 'love', or that love even needs to be involved. 

Yes, @FictoVore.. Sometimes/often it is need/lust/desire but channelled towards that person, who you love or has chosen as a life partner because of a ‘deeper’ positive feeling. Sex at its best is when all is fitting and you (I) know/feel that it is also love making. The act, on a ‘daily basis’ is often just helping eachother to be sexually satified. The love sometimes comes in the equation, by the choice of partner. As in ‘I would choose you everyday over any hot girl or fun, lustful colleague or ..., since I love you and I find quality in being with you. Quality in both of us, on the long run, when we are together’. Fucking is fun, but this more than that.

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Tarfeather
On 12/22/2017 at 9:48 AM, Telecaster68 said:

But... asexuals' position over sex seems to be 'when it comes to us having sex, it's not important enough for me to compromise because it hurts me too much, and when it comes to you having sex, you should compromise to the point of never having sex again because that would mean someone else was involved and that hurts me too'. The sexual points out that they're doing all the compromising here and the asexual's needs are being forced on both of them - in essence, the asexual has sovereignty over both people's bodies, and the sexual has no say in it - but this carries no weight. It's fundamentally unfair for one partner to say sex has no place in a relationship when they're avoiding hurt to themselves (by having sex), but does have a place when the consequences are going to hurt them (by their partner having sex with someone else).

Not really. C. genuinely placed no particular meaning on sex. As for somebody who cares directly who their partner has sex with, as in the sex itself, not indirect consquences of it.. Suffice to say, someone can have some concept of caring about sex and seeing it as an intimate act, yet have some other reasons which makes them not want to engage in that. Whether you call that asexual is up for debate, it's certainly a very different kind of asexual than what C. is, for instance.

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alibali
On 22/12/2017 at 11:01 AM, Telecaster68 said:

Yes, that's the aspect I can understand and sympathise with. The bit I don't get is when asexuals don't feel sexual activity is anything to do with intimacy, but then feel the same kind of visceral, personal pain that most sexuals would have. To me, that means they do in fact have some emotional connection to sexuality after all. Perhaps they have other reasons for not wanting to acknowledge it even to themselves, but it's there. 

The main issue is trust not to do with sex. It would be, this person who I treasure and value and share everything with, other than sex with has seen fit to do something fundamental to a relationship (from their perspective) with someone else, without talking about it and agreeing things together. 

 

If an open relationship was a compromise agreed to between both I wouldn't have an issue. Well unless they did form a bond and it threatened the marriage. Then the justification for going outside the marriage rather than splitting up is kind of null and void.

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flesh-pocket
18 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

So yeah, haha.. my rambling aside, do you mean you want a romantic relationship with sex but not 'desire', or that you want one that's free from the desire for any kind of sexual intimacy? (that's what I wanted too, before I met my partner!) :)

i want a romantic relationship that has no sexual things, no desire for sex and no sexual desire for each other. no sexual element at all (so, the 2nd one). and i hope that a relationship like that can really exist long term because it seems that no matter what anyone on here says about it, once posters on here find someone they really click with they start having some sort of sexual element to their relationship, even if its non-conventional sex only, like in your case. its just very lonely because i feel i have no ideal i can look up to as what i want in a relationship, so it makes it seem like what i want is becoming more and more like a pipe dream.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
2 hours ago, flesh-pocket said:

i want a romantic relationship that has no sexual things, no desire for sex and no sexual desire for each other. no sexual element at all (so, the 2nd one). and i hope that a relationship like that can really exist long term because it seems that no matter what anyone on here says about it, once posters on here find someone they really click with they start having some sort of sexual element to their relationship, even if its non-conventional sex only, like in your case. its just very lonely because i feel i have no ideal i can look up to as what i want in a relationship, so it makes it seem like what i want is becoming more and more like a pipe dream.

Well I felt exactly the same without actually knowing the capacity to want such things was in my nature (meaning I wasn't actually asexual even though I thought I was) but like I said my asexual ex remained 100% asexual throughout our 18 month long relationship, and still is 100% asexual now almost 4 years later. And there are some older asexuals here (Sally for example) who even though she compromised on sex in the past is still 100% asexual despite having partners she loved/loves. Well actually now that I think about it, there are obviously many asexuals who continue to be ace even when in love etc or we wouldn't have so many unhappy mixed couples here, right? So it's just a matter of going to ace meets/meeting aces in the community here etc and eventually you may meet one that you really click with and you may be able to have a happy asexual relationship if things go well!! :)

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Serran
4 hours ago, flesh-pocket said:

i want a romantic relationship that has no sexual things, no desire for sex and no sexual desire for each other. no sexual element at all (so, the 2nd one). and i hope that a relationship like that can really exist long term because it seems that no matter what anyone on here says about it, once posters on here find someone they really click with they start having some sort of sexual element to their relationship, even if its non-conventional sex only, like in your case. its just very lonely because i feel i have no ideal i can look up to as what i want in a relationship, so it makes it seem like what i want is becoming more and more like a pipe dream.

That is possible and there are people who have found it. 

 

Personally, I developed sexual interests in my partner after finding someone. I didn't have an ounce of sexual feelings for people before that. So, I wanted what you want right now. And, after getting it, things developed. Which is strange! :lol: But, there are asexual couples who have been together (even married) that aren't doing sexual stuff together. 

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Sally
On 12/1/2017 at 1:01 AM, Nidwin said:

Can we truly understand it Sally as we aren't wired for it?

 

I think sometimes "understand" is said to include "feel".  No, we can't feel about sex as sexuals do.  But we can understand that they feel that way.  In other words, we can respect that they feel that way.   That's what's necessary, I think.  

 

 

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flesh-pocket

there are plenty of asexuals on this site in unhappy relationships, and there are plenty who are single. ive even seen many people describe happy relationships with sexuals where some middle ground is found, but still has at least sexual a aspect of some sort. if anyone on here talks about being in a happy sexless relationship, they very quickly drop off the site and dont talk about it anymore, or like in the success stories thread which has a lot of people saying stuff like "ive been with my partner for 6 months and everything's going great!" too. 

 

i know providing representation is not what this site is for though.... i feel like i would be more open to romance if it wasnt assumed in our culture that all romantic partnerships are/will be sexual, even if they never speak about it openly... and this is the only place i know where people who are supposedly like me talk about their real experiences, and what i want still doesnt seem realistic even here. im sorry, ill drop it now. thanks for listening 

 

 

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Serran
1 hour ago, flesh-pocket said:

there are plenty of asexuals on this site in unhappy relationships, and there are plenty who are single. ive even seen many people describe happy relationships with sexuals where some middle ground is found, but still has at least sexual a aspect of some sort. if anyone on here talks about being in a happy sexless relationship, they very quickly drop off the site and dont talk about it anymore, or like in the success stories thread which has a lot of people saying stuff like "ive been with my partner for 6 months and everything's going great!" too. 

 

i know providing representation is not what this site is for though.... i feel like i would be more open to romance if it wasnt assumed in our culture that all romantic partnerships are/will be sexual, even if they never speak about it openly... and this is the only place i know where people who are supposedly like me talk about their real experiences, and what i want still doesnt seem realistic even here. im sorry, ill drop it now. thanks for listening 

 

 

People who are happy in their relationships and have no issues are less likely to talk about their relationships. But, there are interviews and such you can find on Youtube of couples in asexual relationships. 

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EvangelineAngel
On 12/17/2017 at 6:59 AM, Chimeric said:

This hasn't been my experience.

 

I am not asexual, but there is a tremendous separation between romantic and sexual desire for me. They overlap, but they aren't the same thing. And it may be a bit simplistic to imply that asexuals don't want to feel desired - maybe not sexually, but there are so many other ways to 'desire' someone, and no one wants to not feel loved in their relationship.

 

My ex-husband was very sexual, but it became quickly evident that it was also very carnal. The emotional attachment was rarely there. Even in the height of our relationship, he cheated, which makes me think he was more interested in the sex than in the bond.

 

My current partner identifies as ace/ace spectrum, and has done a way better job fulfilling my emotional needs than my ex ever did. 

 

Admittedly there are days when I just really need to get off - which I'm happy to do on my own - but there are more days when I need to feel loved and listened to and cared for. Sometimes I want these things to happen at the same time, but I am not willing to deal with the consequences of asking my partner to put himself in a situation that compromises who he is. I don't want him to resent me and I don't want to feel the guilt of having put him in that position. It's not worth it. But the rest of what I receive from the relationship very, very much is.

Isn't it ironic that I have been celibet for 15 years only to have my desires awakened by a man I admire and came to love who now tells me he is asexual.  Like Cherimec, I felt more used than loved in my marriage.  I do not know to what level  my dear  friend's  repulsions extend.  So far lending me his arm, hugs and kisses on the cheek are fine.  I cut off our lunches  when I was frustrated at the non progression of physical closeness,  then he got the courage to tell me why.  I feel priveleged he shared this with me.  I am very romantic and feel i could be satisfied with cuddling and perhaps kisses,  Things I felt shortchanged of in my marriage.  His(husbands) ejaculation was always the goal by whatever means I had energy for.  I really do need the closeness of being held.  So further communication will be key in determining  if I have to move on to find a romantic parther.  Having been used myself, I would never want to do that to him.

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insecurelyace

1. I'd like to think it's not? But it seems like it is to a lot of people. And society seems to tell us it should be. To not find it important, it's hard to fit in with someone who finds it so important. Love and sex are separate but people like to pair them together as if one can't have sex without love. Ergo, why not love without sex?

 

3. I've compromised many times in my life. Maybe sometimes it wasn't exactly a compromise when it hurt me. I once forced myself through a lot because I knew it's what the men I was with wanted, and what they expected out of me. That it was the only way they would believe me that I loved them and was actually interested in them. I did it because it was necessary to hold a relationship together since they wanted it. I guess I'll say, this kind of compromising to hold a relationship together never holds up, simply it seems it's never enough. You can't compromise with someone who won't accept your wavering attraction, or that it's not personal.

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Perspektiv

I think its very important to a person who loves that level of intimacy (whether its a nymphomaniac, or anyone with a healthy sex drive from low to high).

 

It will bring you closer to your partner, and its essentially you giving your entire self to them. I don't think it gets any closer than that. As a result, a partner would likely feel unattractive and potentially even like they weren't good enough for you, in having the intimacy of the relationship fully removed.

 

I'd probably compare it to salt in cooking. Sure there are alternatives out there, however unlike sugar--most of your dishes would wind up suffering. The food likely would still be edible, but you'd be choking it down, knowing something is missing from it. This would be great, if... would be the description most would give to your dishes. Now, you can sort of put yourself in the shoes of someone who is sexual.

 

Essentially, you'd have to be able to accept to continue eating salt free, and not being met halfway, with simply putting less salt, or healthier more natural versions of salt. That's a tough pill to swallow, for someone who loves food.

 

I've always compromised in relationships. I can't handle the frequency a nymphomaniac would want, as have been there--but I'm not disgusted by sex, so can meet a partner halfway. I just don't have any desire for it, so would struggle with a partner who was hot and bothered every moment of the day. Knowing: "OMG, put ice on your genitals, woman!" would not be the correct approach to take.

 

They however, need to accept my need for intimacy is based on everything but sex. I could easily go without. I'm actually happiest, without. So someone who needs it 5 times a day, would be dating the wrong person if they wanted a relationship with me. I just could not keep you happy long term, as at this level--it would be at the expense of my own happiness. Not a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

 

I've however made relationships work, where the levels were toned down to where I don't feel overwhelmed by it, but they're still getting their needs met. Its a major compromise, but if I love the person it won't feel like one.

 

I'll never date another nymphomaniac again, however. People would look at me weird for saying this--but it was torture. Its both sides. Mine, knowing I'll never be able to keep her happy, and her--feeling unattractive, that I'm cheating, or inadequate for me. Not worth the misery.

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Ilovecake
On 30/11/2017 at 1:33 PM, PoisonPoppy said:

More so aimed at sexual/ asexual relationships but obviously open to all answers. Like, as an asexual I don't see what wrong with being loving, affectionate, cuddling, kissing and spending my life with someone without sex (other than to have kids).

 

1. Is sex really an important part of a relationship?

2. If it is, what would you compare its importance to? 

3. How would you compromise as an asexual? 

1) I think for a sexual it is the difference between being friends or lovers.

2) I have been told the comparison is as significant as time spent together i.e. Little or no sex is as damaging as little or no meaningful time spent together.

3) I’m not asexual. Demisexual more like.

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