Sally Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Because AVEN has a number of German members, I wonder if they can talk about the political situation in Germany now. Link to post Share on other sites
Yatogami Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 16 minutes ago, Sally said: Because AVEN has a number of German members, I wonder if they can talk about the political situation in Germany now. What happened? Did she finally get fired? Link to post Share on other sites
iff Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 37 minutes ago, Yato said: What happened? Did she finally get fired? Talks about forming a coalition government after the recent election broke down. Link to post Share on other sites
SorryNotSorry Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 2 hours ago, iff said: Talks about forming a coalition government after the recent election broke down. Yep, members of a libertarian faction walked out and said the meeting was pointless. Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Woodworker1968 said: Yep, members of a libertarian faction walked out and said the meeting was pointless. After speaking to Theresa May over the last twelve months European politicians have had plenty of practice uttering that phrase Link to post Share on other sites
XYZ96 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 the whole situation in short and as objective as possible is: the christian democrats, the liberals and the greens were going to form a coalition, they have been having trouble agreeing on things since the coalition meetings started, and the liberals a few days ago walked out on the coalition, because they weren't willing to make compromises that would make them go against what they stand for. The only other coalition that could be thinkable, that would make a majority government is the christian democrats and the social democrats (that's the coalition we've had the past four years, and the one we still have till a new coalition is formed), though the social democrats have said both after the election and after the liberals walked out on the coalition, that they will stay in the opposition. So, there are a few possibilities: - the Social democrats change their position and the christian democrats and social democrats form a coalition for another four years (the social democrats are against this though) - the liberals change their mind and the coalition meetings continue (the liberals against this though) - we get a minority government of either liberals and christian democrats or greens and christian democrats (this has never been tried on the federal level though) - we get re-elections (this would be a complicated process and the president is against this) so it's all a rather complicated issue... but that's the over view of what is happening.. Link to post Share on other sites
Antihero. Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 . Link to post Share on other sites
timewarp Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 As a German living in the UK, I must say I'm more than happy about this. Part of the UK government's Brexit strategy seems to have been to try and convince the German government of their case once the election was over. Now that there is a slightly more complex parliament with six quite different parties, they can forget about that for the time being. Nobody knows what the future German government's position on Brexit (or anything else) will be, because nobody knows who will form the government. Regarding the consequences for Germany - I expect none. Germany hasn't had a proactive government ever since Angela Merkel became chancellor. All her governments have been administrations, as in doing administrative tasks rather than any significant piece of legislation. If the parties are finally more insistent on having at least the hint of their own profile, I'm more than happy about it. The social democrats can blame their bad results in the last general election on being part of the last "grand coalition" as much as they want - the reason I didn't consider voting for them is that they had only platitudes in their electoral programme. Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 On a European level Germany needs a strong leader. They are the strongest industrial economy, the largest population and the biggest contributor to the EU budget. German funding is keeping many Mediterranean countries afloat. This will become even more significant post Brexit, as that will mean the loss of one of the few net contributors to the EU If Germany was to elect an isolationist chancellor and withdraw from the EU, it would probably collapse. Yet there are many far right people in Germany who, using immigration as their weapon, want just that. So they need a chancellor who will minimise the influence of this faction Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainYesterday Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 [deleted] Link to post Share on other sites
ThaHoward Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 The liberals basically broke with the greens and conservatives as both sides couldn't give concessions to their views on immigration, enviorment and EU. The social democrats don't want to be in another grand coalition with the conservatives due to the government tear. The conservatives don't want to rule in a miniority government nor a reelection to give more ground to the rightwing radicals and social Democrats (the conservative government had a bad election result). So that is the whole thing in a nutshell. Conservatives can't form a majority government, meanwhile they don't want a miniority government and it is doubtful if they will benefit from a re-election On 22.11.2017 at 4:41 AM, Woodworker1968 said: Yep, members of a libertarian faction walked out and said the meeting was pointless. Well the FDP (Free Democratic Party) is a political party on its own. And they are Libertarian as the SPD are Communist and the CDU/CSU are Prussian Monarchists... On a European level Germany needs a strong leader. They are the strongest industrial economy, the largest population and the biggest contributor to the EU budget. German funding is keeping many Mediterranean countries afloat. This will become even more significant post Brexit, as that will mean the loss of one of the few net contributors to the EU If Germany was to elect an isolationist chancellor and withdraw from the EU, it would probably collapse. Yet there are many far right people in Germany who, using immigration as their weapon, want just that. So they need a chancellor who will minimise the influence of this faction Germany isn't at risk of leaving the EU.. Right now though the economy etc is true, but it is a bigger risk that Brexit as a whole will be postponed, or that Macron will take the advantage to make France the leading nation in the negotiations for now. Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 @ThaHoward, if it means Brexit getting postponed or better still scrapped then maybe it's a good thing Link to post Share on other sites
Homer Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 13 hours ago, ThaHoward said: The social democrats don't want to be in another grand coalition with the conservatives due to the government tear. I believe it's more because of the right-wing AFD, which scored 13% in the election. If the Social Democraps teamed up with Merkel's CDU to form a government, the AFD would be the strongest opposition party and neither CDU nor SPD would really like that. Link to post Share on other sites
ben8884 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 It looks like Thu SPD will form a coalition with the CDU. Link to post Share on other sites
Homer Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 SPD don't stick to what they said... who would have thought Link to post Share on other sites
timewarp Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 6 hours ago, Homer said: SPD don't stick to what they said... who would have thought And they still keep wondering why nobody votes for them. Link to post Share on other sites
Homer Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 They still managed 20,5%... -.- Link to post Share on other sites
ThaHoward Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 On 24.11.2017 at 1:36 PM, Homer said: I believe it's more because of the right-wing AFD, which scored 13% in the election. If the Social Democraps teamed up with Merkel's CDU to form a government, the AFD would be the strongest opposition party and neither CDU nor SPD would really like that. Yes that's true, but at least they think it's better than a relection with a possibly stronger AfD? Link to post Share on other sites
timewarp Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 14 minutes ago, ThaHoward said: Yes that's true, but at least they think it's better than a relection with a possibly stronger AfD? With a strong emphasis on possibly. It is very important to realise that the AfD has done something that, measured by the usual standards, should be greatly appreciated: they've mobilised voters who never ever voted before. The rest is taken from parties over (almost) the whole political spectrum, to a great extent probably protest voters. That said, I'm quite convinced that the AfD vote is pretty much saturated. To be clear, I don't think they are likely to disappear any time soon, but there is no reason to be afraid either. Also practically every extreme right party in German post WW2 history has managed to destroy itself, either through in-fights or financially. In the case of the AfD my bet is it will be in-fights. They are already in the middle of that. Link to post Share on other sites
rhwrd Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 On 12/3/2017 at 12:52 AM, Santa's little timewarp said: Also practically every extreme right party in German post WW2 history has managed to destroy itself, either through in-fights or financially. In the case of the AfD my bet is it will be in-fights. They are already in the middle of that. As a German I can assure you that the AfD party, as much as I dislike it and its members, is not an extreme right party. The NPD party is. Link to post Share on other sites
timewarp Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 5 hours ago, rhwrd said: As a German I can assure you that the AfD party, as much as I dislike it and its members, is not an extreme right party. The NPD party is. As a German I can assure you that there are different views on that. Link to post Share on other sites
rhwrd Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Good to see a fellow German here I know that some people do see that a little different. It's easier to put them all into the extreme corner than to distinguish and easy is what humans prefer - very visible with the 'habit voters'. I still agree with the point that the right-wing parties tend to destroy themselves from within and there have been rumors that Mrs Petry bought a web domain for her own sub party even before the election. ^^ Link to post Share on other sites
ThaHoward Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 34 minutes ago, rhwrd said: Good to see a fellow German here I know that some people do see that a little different. It's easier to put them all into the extreme corner than to distinguish and easy is what humans prefer - very visible with the 'habit voters'. I still agree with the point that the right-wing parties tend to destroy themselves from within and there have been rumors that Mrs Petry bought a web domain for her own sub party even before the election. ^^ I don't remember the exact statistic, but many just vote for AfD as a protestparty. And I guess it depend on how you define extremist, at least they are radical populists. It is also kinda ironic that right wing radicalism and extremism is more prevelant in the east Link to post Share on other sites
timewarp Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 So... this is still going on. Right now it seems the social democrats are actually stupid enough to enter yet another coalition. It seems they are still not worried about dropping further in the polls. Good luck with that... Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamer23 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Better than new elections, but yeah, I'm not a fan of the Afd being the largest opposition party either :/ Link to post Share on other sites
ben8884 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I think that there needs to be a coalition. I guess minority governments are not allowed in Germany? Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamer23 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 46 minutes ago, ben8884 said: I think that there needs to be a coalition. I guess minority governments are not allowed in Germany? Actually they are, but they don't really want one. The assumption is votes would be too much along party lines and they'd get nothing done, giving Afd and others even more ammo to use during the next election. President Steinmeier said that he'd call for new elections before recommending a minority government (not sure if that's actually the case, but presumably no one wants to risk it) Link to post Share on other sites
iff Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 hour ago, ben8884 said: I think that there needs to be a coalition. I guess minority governments are not allowed in Germany? We have a Minority government here and it is very shaky, as examples to their shakiness, it nearly collapsed last December about whether someone read an e-mail or not and also slow in legislation as it took over a year to pass a very important bill, companies accounting act 2017 into law which hurt small businesses by not having in place reduced reporting requirements for companies for accounting periods starting 1st January 2016 until June 2017 meaning any company accounts signed off before 9th June 2017 had to be full FRS 102. In 2016 and 2017, the years of our minority government, 63 acts passed by our parliament altogether compared to 66 acts in 2015 alone so reduction in legislative efficiency. Link to post Share on other sites
ben8884 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Ah Ok I wasn't sure Yeah Canada had about 10 years of minority governments and they can be shaky. If new elections are called I hope the FDP get wiped out, they should have never left the bargening table. Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamer23 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 hour ago, ben8884 said: Ah Ok I wasn't sure Yeah Canada had about 10 years of minority governments and they can be shaky. If new elections are called I hope the FDP get wiped out, they should have never left the bargening table. Hm, I don't think it's simple enough that you can just blame the FDP for that. For example, while it was them breaking off the coalition debate, it was because they couldn't come to an agreement with the Green Party. As a matter of fact, CDU and FDP are relatively close in ideology and already had their agreements figured out - it was just the Greens that didn't fit the bill. The FDP was just the first party to call it off to avoid unnecessarily dragging unsuccessful attempts at coalition building out any further. That being said, I didn't mean to blame the Green Party for the coalition failure either (hope it didn't sound like that). There are very fundamental differences between those parties, and I can see how they would feel like they are betraying their voters if they compromise too much just to be part of the coalition (as a matter of fact, the green party is usually significantly happier in the opposition anyway) Link to post Share on other sites
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