ConorOberst Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 16 minutes ago, Kersenne said: Well talking about sources, perhaps the president himself should get his facts straight... Remember the famous terrorist attack in Sweden, that he completelty invented? Right, because one of his TV channels had aired a documentary about terrorism, Trump just assumed that there had been an actual terrorist attack in Sweden when in truth... nothing happened! Sweden is by the way one of the safest countries in Europe... So who's get their facts wrong? Erm - you mean the Sweden that is now the rape capital of europe and has the 2nd highest number of rapes in the world, second only to a small town in South Africa...that Sweden? Violent crime is up by 300% and rapes have increased by 1472%!!! https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape Maybe a terrorist attack in Sweden didn't happen when trump said it did....but it did happen a week later, don't you remember? https://nuntiussweden.wordpress.com/2017/04/09/terrorist-attack-in-stockholm-bomb-found-in-oslo/ Link to post Share on other sites
Ankh-Morpork Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, ConorOberst said: Erm - you mean the Sweden that is now the rape capital of europe and has the 2nd highest number of rapes in the world, second only to a small town in South Africa...that Sweden? Violent crime is up by 300% and rapes have increased by 1472%!!! Ehm ... Sweden changed the way how incidents are recorded in statistics and it differs to other countries. If someone raped his partner every week in the last year it's counted as 52 incidents. In other countries that would count only once. Edit: It's even more than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden#Swedish_rape_statistics 12 minutes ago, ConorOberst said: Maybe a terrorist attack in Sweden didn't happen when trump said it did....but it did happen a week later, don't you remember? Trump can predict the future? Link to post Share on other sites
Kersenne Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Soooooooo about global warming, here I come: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309170804000478 (Labat et al., 2004) This contribution provides the first experimental data-based evidence demonstrating the link between the global warming and the intensification of the global hydrological cycle. This corresponds to more intense evaporation over oceans coupled to continental precipitation increase or continental evaporation decrease. This process finally leads to an increase of the global continental runoff http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378003000669 (Boykoff and Boykoff, 2003) This paper focuses on the norm of balanced reporting, and shows that the prestige press's adherence to balance actually leads to biased coverage of both anthropogenic contributions to global warming and resultant action. Media hasn't been exactly reliable about global warming (money money money...) http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.2307/1941591/full (Vitusek, 1994) an old one, but so interesting! While ecologists involved in management or policy often are advised to learn to deal with uncertainty, there are a number of components of global environmental change of which we are certain–certain that they are going on, and certain that they are human—caused. Some of these are largely ecological changes, and all have important ecological consequences. Three of the well—documented global changes are: increasing concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere; alterations in the biogeochemistry of the global nitrogen cycle; and ongoing land use/land cover change. That's just a part of teh extract, but what this guy basically demonstrates is how human based activites have affected global warming - and that's in 1994, and things have only gotten worse from there! https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10584-006-9060-3?LI=true Oooh I like this one, it explains why most people don't action about global warming and pretty much just ignore the problem! (Weber, 2006) When people fail to be alarmed about a risk or hazard, they do not take precautions. The time-delayed, abstract, and often statistical nature of the risks of global warming does not evoke strong visceral reactions. A must read, quite inspiring! Now something more down to eart: https://climate.nasa.gov/causes/ As you can see, it's a government site - adress is California, in the USA. And just in case you decided not to click on the link: Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal. - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change And about the increase of natural disasters: https://www.livescience.com/414-scientists-natural-disasters-common.html Along with the Office of US Foreign Disaster Assistance (OFDA), CRED maintains an emergency disaster database called EM-DAT. An event is categorized as a natural disaster if it kills 10 or more people or leaves at least 100 people injured, homeless, displaced or evacuated. An event is also included in the database if a country declares it a natural disaster or if requires the country to make a call for international assistance. According to the EM-DAT, the total natural disasters reported each year has been steadily increasing in recent decades, from 78 in 1970 to 348 in 2004. I can come up with more, but I still want to post my answer... Link to post Share on other sites
Prufrock, but like, worse Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, Ankh-Morpork said: Trump can predict the future? And he wasn't even claiming to predict the future. He was claiming to describe the past. Your whataboutism doesn't change the fact that in that moment, he was wrong. Not because of any phony media's bias, but because he was enfeebled by his ignorance. Link to post Share on other sites
Kersenne Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, Ankh-Morpork said: Ehm ... Sweden changed the way how incidents are recorded in statistics and it differs to other countries. If someone raped his partner every week in the last year it's counted as 52 incidents. In other countries that would count only once. Edit: It's even more than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden#Swedish_rape_statistics Trump can predict the future? You're right. And to back you up further: http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ This explains how Sweden considers raping, as opposed to other countries. And it also explains how they encourage their women to stand up to their agressors and to denounce them. Since what happened with Weisenstein (sorry if I mispell his name), many, many women have started to report their sexual offenses. It's a shame it took so long for them - for us - to feel free to do so. Sweden's example is exemplaray, in the way they treat their women. And about the attack in 2017, although it did look like how Islamic state opperates, they didn't claim it. And this one attack doesn't make Sweden suddenly the most dangerous country to live in... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Trump is amazing... ly terrible fixed Link to post Share on other sites
ConorOberst Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 @drjohnhwatson If I believed what you believe then I would dislike trump as well, but the things you believe just aren't true (or at least, not enough evidence to believe them to be true). Trump gave up his lifestyle and his family's future. Trump could have quite easily lived the billionaire lifestyle with no stress and worries. Now look at him, look at the life he lives and the future he will face. The media has completely slaughtered him and his family. He will live forever with the threat of assassination hanging over his head. He stood to gain absolutely nothing from becoming President but he has lost a lot by taking the job - he's far braver than me, I would have taken the easy road. He's going to cost the tax payer a ton whatever he does - you can't really hold that against him. I think that's just the way things are. And when it comes to hiring family - who wouldn't do that? Who can you trust more than your own family? I'd do the same if I was in his shoes. As long as they are good at their job what does it matter? Yes it does matter about 0.4c change in global temperature. As I said in my original post - the Paris agreement stated that it would cost america around 80-100 trillion dollars to reduce global temperature by a fraction of a degree. In the mean time, none of the other big countries played by the same rules. Is that really good for america? Do they get a good deal from that? Why is it America's responsibility and not the rest of the world? Even if you do believe in global warming, then wouldn't it be a better strategy to keep using fossil fuels and then use the $100 trillion you saved and invest that into new technologies? Instead of reducing CO2 emissions (which is a fools errand as the global population keeps expanding, you are only delaying the inevitable) - why not invest in new power sources? He isn't against global warming, he just doesn't agree with the strategy to combat it! You can do a lot with $100 trillion, reducing the global temperature by 0.4c is ridiculous - truly a monster waste of money that could go towards solving any number of other pressing issues. A cure for cancer would save more lives than reducing the global temperature by 0.4c. it's just a waste of money, plain and simple. The disgusting racist accusations against trump are just that - they were hit pieces written by journalists funded by the DNC. Lots of companies settle things out of court because it's easier, not because they are guilty. Just because one of Trump's businesses does something, it doesn't mean trump thinks like that. Most of the racist accusations are from one person, kip brown - or they are taken from a book written by John O'Donnell...why do you believe them over trump? What evidence do they have? Zero. Zero evidence. You believe them simply because you want to believe them. For example, I used to work at a fancy hotel and we used to have a Saudi prince come and dine at our restaurant - one of the rules was that he didn't want to be served or see any women. On the days he was there, all the women were taken off the schedule and they weren't allowed to work. It's not racist or sexist - if the guest wants it like that, then you do it. That's just money talking - it's not racism or sexist - you do what the guest pays you to do, that's hospitality. I would suggest that you reevaluate your view of trump - don't believe everything you read. Look for evidence. Read multiple sources. The deep state is out to destroy trump - don't fall for their crap. Link to post Share on other sites
Kersenne Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 @ConorOberst There's no price on saving humanity. There's also clearly no way to convince you, so I won't bother with furhter evidence. Just this: global warming has a desastrous effect on the planet, and it's not because you haven't felt the effects yet that it isn't real. Global wamring is happening faster and faster, and if we keep plundering Earth's resources, we're just going to accelerate our own death. Hear me - Humankind's death. Earth will keep on living after us, without any trouble. But we will become the next massive extinction. And honestly, I don't want to live through this, and I don't want to pay for the deliberate mistakes a few of the richest people made for their own profit. Link to post Share on other sites
ConorOberst Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 34 minutes ago, Ankh-Morpork said: Ehm ... Sweden changed the way how incidents are recorded in statistics and it differs to other countries. If someone raped his partner every week in the last year it's counted as 52 incidents. In other countries that would count only once. Edit: It's even more than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden#Swedish_rape_statistics Trump can predict the future? 22 minutes ago, Kersenne said: You're right. And to back you up further: http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ This explains how Sweden considers raping, as opposed to other countries. And it also explains how they encourage their women to stand up to their agressors and to denounce them. Since what happened with Weisenstein (sorry if I mispell his name), many, many women have started to report their sexual offenses. It's a shame it took so long for them - for us - to feel free to do so. Sweden's example is exemplaray, in the way they treat their women. And about the attack in 2017, although it did look like how Islamic state opperates, they didn't claim it. And this one attack doesn't make Sweden suddenly the most dangerous country to live in... You are just moving the goal posts...however it is reported, Sweden is now the rape capital of europe. Just go watch videos online. Go look at the video of the reporter who volunteered to go over to Sweden to "disprove" how violent it has become....only to be too scared to leave his room! Maybe the fact that they opened their doors to hundreds of thousands of completely unvetted people has something to do with the massive spike in crime? You are disingenuous to yourself if you don't see the evidence staring you in the face. To say that Sweden changed their crime reporting strategy is just a hopeless defense that only puts people in danger because of political correctness...that is awful and god help the poor women there if their leaders actually believe that nonsense! Europe is crumbling and america should thank God they have a leader like trump who puts the safety of his people above political correctness!! Again - come on, you really don't believe that because Isis didn't claim responsibility for the terrorist attack that it wasn't them? That's just denial - all you are doing is putting innocent people in danger by thinking like that. Link to post Share on other sites
Kersenne Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 @ConorOberstI've been in Sweden. I've actually lived there. Among immigrants. I played frisbee with immigrants, Somalians, Afghans, Syrians. Oh, should I mention I'm white, and a girl? Well I've never felt in danger, my friends have never felt in danger, nothing ever happened to me in Sweden. There's so much more to say but as I've said above, you don't want to hear it. That's ok. I can live with your ignorance. And please stop saying I don't want to face the truth - I can turn back the compliment. You haven't come up with any concrete evidence of what you say. That's just too easy, bragging about things you know nothing about. At least, I check my sources. Link to post Share on other sites
Ankh-Morpork Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, ConorOberst said: You are just moving the goal posts...however it is reported, Sweden is now the rape capital of europe. How so? They record many things thst wouldn't be reported elsewhere – of course they have higher numbers! Do you have any source for your claim? 4 minutes ago, ConorOberst said: Maybe the fact that they opened their doors to hundreds of thousands of completely unvetted people has something to do with the massive spike in crime? Austria and Germany did that too and both are safe countries. I actually live in Vienna and can't see all the crumbling that Europe is facing in your opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
ConorOberst Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 @Kersenne I can post a hundred links to climatologists who say the environment is changing through natural causes. The evidence isn't solid, because the problem is so complex no one has a definate answer. Most of the reports on global warming are created by scientists funded by government grants - no global warming = no funding. It stands to reason that if someone's livelihood depends on it then they will doctor the evidence. And this has been shown to be the case time and time again. I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen these climatologists fudge the data to make it seem far worse than it actually is. They don't even know if co2 is the primary cause of global warming (or climate change as it's now called because the world didn't warm up for 20 years!). I've seen compelling evidence that it's actually to do with water vapor and solar cycles....the point is, we have no idea why it's happening and we have no idea what will happen if the world warms up. Just look at the predictions made years ago....the predictions were so off, so crazy that the climatologists are basically guessing what will happen. Trillions of dollars spent on climate research and our best scientists are basically guessing what will happen! It's a total waste of money. It's a scandal! I'll repeat it again - it will cost $100 trillion to reduce global warming by 0.4c. They don't even know IF global warming can be reduced and they don't even know what causes it. Would YOU spend $100 trillion dollars on this if this was the only evidence presented to you?!?! You would have to be crazy to agree to is. $100 trillion could be used for so many other things, as I said, you could cure cancer if you spent that much money on it and you can bet that more lives would be saved this way. I'm not against climate change as such. I just don't think we know what causes it, I don't think we have any idea on how to stop it and i don't think we have any idea about the results of it. $100 trillion is a huge gamble to make on something that we have been so spectacularly wrong about. We don't even know if global warming is a bad thing as we don't know what the ideal temperature of the world is any way!!! Would the world be better if it was a few degrees hotter? Plants would obviously thrive, food production would increase and famine would be reduced. CO2 may even balance itself out this way. The whole thing is one big scam, with thousands of people making a lot of money basically guessing and fear mongering.... Link to post Share on other sites
Kersenne Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 @ConorOberst to finish before I go to bed (yes, because it so happens that I live in one of the most dangerous countries in the world, ouuuuh dangerous!), if you believe whatever you find on the internet without checking your sources... well, the USA is the country with the most rapes in the world, as are France, Sweden and Germany. And the countries with lowest rapes would be Egypt, Syria, Armenia and so on (ooooh but those are immigrants' countries! then I guess that if immigrants come from the safest places on Earth regarding rape crimes, then... perhaps they are the victims of rape when they arrive in Sweden??? And since immigration increased, and apparently rape increased as well... it all makes sense! Immigrants are all rape victims in the countries they arrive in!) I hope you can figure the rest by yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Kersenne Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Oh so actually this will be my last post since I read it just in time to reply - I'm so sorry you can't come up with any conclusive evidence about the fact that global warming is just a scam and that nobody knows why the planet is warming. And I'm sorry for myself that I spent so much time trying to convince you with solid evidence... Well, good night! Link to post Share on other sites
ConorOberst Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 13 minutes ago, Kersenne said: @ConorOberstI've been in Sweden. I've actually lived there. Among immigrants. I played frisbee with immigrants, Somalians, Afghans, Syrians. Oh, should I mention I'm white, and a girl? Well I've never felt in danger, my friends have never felt in danger, nothing ever happened to me in Sweden. There's so much more to say but as I've said above, you don't want to hear it. That's ok. I can live with your ignorance. And please stop saying I don't want to face the truth - I can turn back the compliment. You haven't come up with any concrete evidence of what you say. That's just too easy, bragging about things you know nothing about. At least, I check my sources. Wow - it didn't happen to you so everything is ok. Who cares about the hundreds of people who got raped? It didn't happen to you so it's fine? What about the people who did get raped? What about the people who got mugged, robbed and beaten up? Because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it hasn't happened to hundreds of other people.... Link to post Share on other sites
Prufrock, but like, worse Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 I've directly felt the weather get hotter during my life and I haven't even been alive that long. No media narrative to be seen. Link to post Share on other sites
ConorOberst Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, Kersenne said: @ConorOberst to finish before I go to bed (yes, because it so happens that I live in one of the most dangerous countries in the world, ouuuuh dangerous!), if you believe whatever you find on the internet without checking your sources... well, the USA is the country with the most rapes in the world, as are France, Sweden and Germany. And the countries with lowest rapes would be Egypt, Syria, Armenia and so on (ooooh but those are immigrants' countries! then I guess that if immigrants come from the safest places on Earth regarding rape crimes, then... perhaps they are the victims of rape when they arrive in Sweden??? And since immigration increased, and apparently rape increased as well... it all makes sense! Immigrants are all rape victims in the countries they arrive in!) I hope you can figure the rest by yourself. I just don't know what evidence you are looking at - virtually all the countries you mentioned have a high number of rapes. And the other places you mentioned....well, the person who reports the rape normally gets blamed for BEING raped!!! Would you report it under those circumstances?! Link to post Share on other sites
ConorOberst Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 Just now, J. Alfred Prufrock said: I've directly felt the weather get hotter during my life and I haven't even been alive that long. No media narrative to be seen. The earth is 4.55 billions years old. You haven't even been alive for a speck of time compared. It's impossible to make a judgement like that based on such flimsy evidence... Link to post Share on other sites
ConorOberst Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 25 minutes ago, Ankh-Morpork said: Austria and Germany did that too and both are safe countries. I actually live in Vienna and can't see all the crumbling that Europe is facing in your opinion. ...As long as you aren't 10 years old and you aren't in the changing rooms at your local swimming pool... You only have to look at the rise of the far right in Austria to see that the people there do see immigration as an issue. Link to post Share on other sites
Prufrock, but like, worse Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 14 minutes ago, ConorOberst said: The earth is 4.55 billions years old. You haven't even been alive for a speck of time compared. It's impossible to make a judgement like that based on such flimsy evidence... Humans don't age. Link to post Share on other sites
drjohnhwatson Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 @ConorOberst you are the one who has blinders on. There's no way you're going to change your mind. But how on earth do you think his family is qualified to do the jobs that they've been put into? They have literally no background on it; the only reason they even got it was because they have his DNA. If this was any other President putting up their children--and spouses of their children--Republicans would be having an utter meltdown. Even as it is, some Republicans actually have a spine and are sticking up for their beliefs and moral values. As to the "it's not sexism/racist" thing, holy fucking shit. Saying "I don't want any women out" or "I don't want to see any black people" and then removing women and black people...that is ABSOLUTELY sexist and ABSOLUTELY racist. When a hotel complies with it, it is ALSO racist. They're taking the needs of one person who is wealthy over others. Link to post Share on other sites
Ankh-Morpork Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, ConorOberst said: ...As long as you aren't 10 years old and you aren't in the changing rooms at your local swimming pool... Even then you have nothing to worrry. Btw: A couple of my friends, family members and aquaintances were raped – all of them by someone they already knew (family member or close friend). 7 minutes ago, ConorOberst said: You only have to look at the rise of the far right in Austria to see that the people there do see immigration as an issue. It's an issue, but the far right tends to make it worse. And the issue is not safety, it's money and accomodation. Just ask yourself why areas with very low numbers of immigants have the most right wing voters. Vienna has a left wing majority and a high immigration rate. But now I'm going to bed, too. (It's 2 AM here) Link to post Share on other sites
Polygon Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Conor's bait list: Imply asexuality is an illness imply certain people don't meet the qualifications of "asexual", and furthermore dabble in ace superiority topics Take the worst examples of the Left and try to apply that to anyone/anything left of /pol/ Unnecessarily contrarian threads that go above and beyond praising the President to the extent that it's borderline worship eugenics thread Question/criticize/shit on trans issues "Is x, y, z identity a real thing, or snowflake blah blah blah?" "Anyone that so much as looks at MSM is a sheep" I don't have a crystal ball, but running down the list of things that get people riled up can give some good indications of the future. Link to post Share on other sites
ConorOberst Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 @Polygon I can't help it if I have strong beliefs in things. I like evidence and I refuse to believe things just because everyone else does. I can back up everything I've said - I just look at the evidence and then follow where it takes me. I admit a lot of my views aren't politically correct...but that's probably because I hate political correctness. You are definitely right though - as I seem to be alone in most of my views, this forum obviously isn't for me. Maybe this place is a little too polite, it's hard to have a real conversation when everyone is trying to be nice. I think I'm giving the mods a bit of a headache so I'm off to find a new home. If anyone would like to continue any conversations they have had with me then my email address is mrrightwing@mail.com - who knows, you may change my opinion or I may change yours I leave knowing a hell of a lot more about myself than when I first found this palace. Stay awesome guys! Link to post Share on other sites
Mostly Peaceful Ryan Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 I'm a conservative and I don't think I could call Trump amazing. He isn't as bad as the media makes him out to be, but that isn't a high standard. He doesn't meet my standards on morality, but neither did Hillary. I do find humor in some of the things he does that upsets democrats and the media, but that's not really helpful in passing good policies, so it's not what I want him to be doing. His presidency just makes me think we need the federal government to have less power. Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Quote Yes he said some disgusting things about women. But that's all he did, he said some bad words, he didn't rape anyone or molest anyone. I'll let you in on a little secret - that's how 99.9% of men talk about women when women aren't there. It's just how it is. Men are pigs, what can I say? rofl Yeah okay dude. I'm sure if he were actually beating women you'd be here saying "but at least he hasn't killed any of them!" Link to post Share on other sites
TheSmokingSkellie Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 3 hours ago, Polygon said: Conor's bait list: Imply asexuality is an illness imply certain people don't meet the qualifications of "asexual", and furthermore dabble in ace superiority topics Take the worst examples of the Left and try to apply that to anyone/anything left of /pol/ Unnecessarily contrarian threads that go above and beyond praising the President to the extent that it's borderline worship eugenics thread Question/criticize/shit on trans issues "Is x, y, z identity a real thing, or snowflake blah blah blah?" "Anyone that so much as looks at MSM is a sheep" I don't have a crystal ball, but running down the list of things that get people riled up can give some good indications of the future. And yet, people still took the bait. Link to post Share on other sites
Comrade F&F Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Well, there's one good thing that came from this discussion. It's a valuable insight in the boggling question of why people support Trump. ...Gimme a few to analyze and attempt an understanding of these posts. Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 8 hours ago, NerotheReaper said: I got my information from his own mouth, so unless a primary source is suddenly now not a good source let me know. In the case of DT, I'd question that, as what spots from there is 50% speechwriter 30% cliché 15% rhetoric 5% random rantings Incidentally I discovered the other day the chemical formulation for snake oil 50% someone else's work, 30% cliché 15% rhetoric 5% random rantings Link to post Share on other sites
Kersenne Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 10 hours ago, ConorOberst said: I just don't know what evidence you are looking at - virtually all the countries you mentioned have a high number of rapes. And the other places you mentioned....well, the person who reports the rape normally gets blamed for BEING raped!!! Would you report it under those circumstances?! And that's exactly why Sweden has more cases of rapes than other countries - because women are free to report them, and because sexual harassement is taken a lot more seriously than in any other countries... I mean, listen to yourself, you've just given the answer to the ongoing debate, you've just given the explanation as to why Sweden has a higher rape count compared to other countries where women are blamed for BEING raped!!! I just don't know what evidence you are looking at either And I took the bait^^ I've always been gluttonous Link to post Share on other sites
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