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♣Ryan♣
3 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

In my case I was saying mean things about a very controversial trans YouTuber (who claims that if you have sexual preferences then you're a sexist bigot, pretty much). This person claims that they're a lesbian with a penis, which is fine, but then said if a lesbian doesn't want to have sex with a woman who has a penis she's a transphobe and a bigot and needs to consider re-adjustung her attitude :S So I said some mean things about this YouTuber and made it very clear I wasn't referring to transpeople in general, just this transperson, and that's when I got the warning for stalking and harassment.... Even though the person isn't a member of AVEN..and even though I've literally never stalked or harassed them, I was just bitching about their beliefs. And yes I did bitch about their identity but made it clear it was only them this applied to, not anyone else on AVEN (though, sorry, anyone who thinks they're entitled to sex with whoever they want just because they identify as a minority is a jerk in my book!). I got banned from AVEN for two weeks and got banned from the Gender discussion forum for I think 6 months? (convo didn't even happen in that forum) and I got a 6 month active warn for stalking and harassment as a result of that rant about this jerk YouTuber lol. 

This is not what that clause is talking about at all. Now I’m really curious about what the heck is going on back there. In my experience Stalking and harrassing was rarely used and only used when one member was stalking and harrassing another member, it doesn’t even make logical sense ever to accuse someone of stalking and harrassing someone who isn’t a member.

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5 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

In my case I was saying mean things about a very controversial trans YouTuber (who claims that if you have sexual preferences then you're a sexist bigot, pretty much). This person claims that they're a lesbian with a penis, which is fine, but then said if a lesbian doesn't want to have sex with a woman who has a penis she's a transphobe and a bigot and needs to consider re-adjustung her attitude :S So I said some mean things about this YouTuber and made it very clear I wasn't referring to transpeople in general, just this transperson, and that's when I got the warning for stalking and harassment.... Even though the person isn't a member of AVEN..and even though I've literally never stalked or harassed them, I was just bitching about their beliefs. And yes I did bitch about their identity but made it clear it was only them this applied to, not anyone else on AVEN (though, sorry, anyone who thinks they're entitled to sex with whoever they want just because they identify as a minority is a jerk in my book!). I got banned from AVEN for two weeks and got banned from the Gender discussion forum for I think 6 months? (convo didn't even happen in that forum) and I got a 6 month active warn for stalking and harassment as a result of that rant about this jerk YouTuber lol. 

No. 

 

If you read your warning, it says you were warned for this clause in the ToS:

 



c. Offensive and bigoted content
AVEN does not tolerate elitist, racist, queerphobic, or sexist bigotry, as these create an environment that is hostile to the reasonable exchange of views. You may not post hateful, abusive, or disparaging content about people's race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, romantic orientation, age, or mental or physical disability. This includes anything bigoted against 'asexuals', 'sexuals', 'aromantics' or 'romantics' as identifiable categories.
Posting offensive content, or bigoted propaganda, may result in an immediate and permanent ban from the forum. Offences judged less serious by the Admod Team will be dealt with under the Warning system outlined below. 

 

Stalking and harassment were not once mentioned in your warn. The only mention is that in the "type" of warn, it's listed as "Abusive Behavior (stalking/harrassment/etc.)"  The fact that Abusive Behavior was selected, does not make it a warn for harassment or stalking, what's said in the warn is much more important.   

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
3 hours ago, pook said:

No. 

 

If you read your warning, it says you were warned for this clause in the ToS:

 

 

 

 

Stalking and harassment were not once mentioned in your warn. The only mention is that in the "type" of warn, it's listed as "Abusive Behavior (stalking/harrassment/etc.)"  The fact that Abusive Behavior was selected, does not make it a warn for harassment or stalking, what's said in the warn is much more important.   

nlanut.jpg
 
 

 

The top one (stalking/harassment) is for the YouTuber. It was about someone who wasn't on this site and I made it clear I was only talking about this person specifically and their bigoted opinions which have led people to question whether they're just using the trans label to force people into sex - which yes is what it sounds like a lot of the time,  and it was about no one else's transness which I made very clear. I was only speaking about that person and the way they use the 'if you don't have sex with me just because I have a penis then you're a transphobe and a bigot' card and encourage other people to use it too. if you can be warned for being mean about someone with shitty opinions then maybe everyone who is mean about Trump should get a warn too? Cause I've seen him called all sorts of names around here. Maybe admins should be more clear about the titles of their warns if they don't want to be misunderstood? Pretty sure that other one there (the bottom one) was for when I said that sexual fluidity is much less common than people seem to think it is, which was a general statement not aimed at anyone and there was no one in the thread identifying as sexually fluid (which was the one I appealed for being completely ridiculous). But my point was that maybe certain admods should actually issue warns for things covered in the ToS instead of twisting something they personally don't like to try to make into a ToS violation when it wasn't one, or if they're going to do that - do it for everyone who bitches about a famous persons identity/beliefs/whatever. I like how you responded to the part about the way the warn was worded (when all I saw there was 'Abusive Behavior - Stalking, Harassment, etc') when the whole point was that I wasn't actually 'judging' anyone on site, and specifically said it was only this YouTuber I was talking about. That was the point I was making. And it's still not Abusive Behavior - Stalking and Harassment regardless (even if you personally view my comments as bigoted statements against all transpeople which they absolutely were not) so that really was a weird way to title of the warn I was given for it.

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Guest

My point is you weren't given a warning for stalking and harassment. You were given a warning for posting offensive and bigoted content. The content of the warn supersedes the category chosen. Saying the wrong category was chosen is a totally valid criticism, but don't make it out like the warn itself didn't make it obvious what it was actually about. 

 

Now, if you want to have a conversation about whether it's okay to post offensive and bigoted content about groups as long as it doesn't specifically target AVEN members, that's an entirely different discussion. 

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CaptainYesterday

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Janus DarkFox
On 18/11/2017 at 1:36 AM, FaerieFate said:

Warnings only last 3-6 months. It's pointless to appeal after a warning expires. That might be for bans or something. 

Yeah partial or full bans this applied to.  If I remember there's a possibility for an appeal straight away, but the 2nd one would have been in a few weeks as the 3rd would be at 3 months, if such a warn/ban is not the first for a member.  Some may desire to have warns and bans expunged completely from records.  The action  of warns and bans are still there on the profile, witch fair enough int seen by everyone.

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TheAP
2 minutes ago, Janus DarkFox said:

Some may desire to have warns and bans expunged completely from records.  The action  of warns and bans are still there on the profile, witch fair enough int seen by everyone.

Can't it only be seen by admods (I'm not sure about the rest of the staff)?

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Janus DarkFox
50 minutes ago, CaptainYesterday said:

I thought that was already allowed?  People post videos all the time that would otherwise break our rules, because the videos themselves are the topic of the conversation.

 

I distinctly remember this, because I thought it was a very weird position to have.  "You can't type this stuff, but if you post it in a video, then that's fine."

Yeah, topics on controversial subjects via video is fine, but when a YouTuber goes out of their way to make a video about AVEN, its Admods and/or specific AVEN members that include those subjects then that's quite something else.

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CaptainYesterday

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Janus DarkFox
3 minutes ago, TheAP said:

Can't it only be seen by admods (I'm not sure about the rest of the staff)?

Depends how it's set-up, and mod could find that out, there's probably a thread in Admods on that specific detail.

 

At th minimum its only seen by the owner of the account, the webmaster and at least admins, mods I cant fully know.

 

Still it's a permanent reminder on a members profile regardless it is active or not.

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Janus DarkFox
3 minutes ago, CaptainYesterday said:

But it seems like that isn't the case here.  Ficto says the video was about someone who has nothing to do with AVEN.

In my view that's fine provided its in a healthy debate environment.

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TheAP
8 minutes ago, Janus DarkFox said:

Depends how it's set-up, and mod could find that out, there's probably a thread in Admods on that specific detail.

 

At th minimum its only seen by the owner of the account, the webmaster and at least admins, mods I cant fully know.

 

Still it's a permanent reminder on a members profile regardless it is active or not.

I can see people's warnings on their profiles.

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Sea Lemon
2 hours ago, TheAP said:

Can't it only be seen by admods (I'm not sure about the rest of the staff)?

Just admods I think - I can't even see my own disciplinary record on my profile :P

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TheAP
54 minutes ago, sea-lemon said:

Just admods I think - I can't even see my own disciplinary record on my profile :P

That's probably because you don't have one. I can't see it on your profile either.

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Sea Lemon
3 minutes ago, TheAP said:

That's probably because you don't have one. I can't see it on your profile either.

Ohhhhh :lol: that makes sense! Although when I was mod, I could see a little banner on profiles that said '0/1/2/3 warning points', so maybe that changed in the last update 

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TheAP
1 minute ago, sea-lemon said:

Ohhhhh :lol: that makes sense! Although when I was mod, I could see a little banner on profiles that said '0/1/2/3 warning points', so maybe that changed in the last update 

That's still there, but not for staff.

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Sea Lemon
Just now, TheAP said:

That's still there, but not for staff.

Oooo cool, that's new then!

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G0D

I think the best tip and trick anyone could be given when writing a warning, is to do the following:

 

Have a stiff drink, go over to another asexual hang out like the one in my signature, have a good moan about how shit AVEN is, and do nothing else. 

 

I have yet to hear of any ones appeal actually having any effect other than making one wait longer, and get outraged twice.

 

Just accept that making any joke, or comment about anything that is in any way negative can be dealt with in the ToS, If I felt like being a dick I could go through the Incel thread and report every person that says something negative about incels, and according to the way AVEN has interpreted the ToS making a comment that negatively portrays a group that an AVEN member might be part of is an offence. It would be funny picking through the double think in the declass 6 months from now, but it's not my style. 

 

Really though, just take it on the chin, and if your stupid like me, you will keep coming back, and if you're sensible you'll self suspend. 

 

Telling AVEN that it is unfair, or that what you did, didn't breach anything will do nothing what so ever, no mod on aven ever said "You make a really good point, let's change our minds". Just doesn't happen..

 

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Skycaptain

@G0D, obviously I can't cite the individual case because of admod breaching, but I can safely state, having been involved in the process, that at least one appeal has resulted in a warning being rescinded because the appellant was able to demonstrate that the post concerned didn't breach ToS 

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G0D

How long have you been a mod @Skycaptain I mean in total, not just this stint?

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Skycaptain

@G0D, just over two years, plus I've seen most discussions during time "off", so I've a reasonable recollection over three years. 

I'm posting as one who has lost an appeal as well, BTW 

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G0D

I am just interested @Skycaptain , so you guys deal with at least one disciplinary action a week? that's what the declassed stuff seems to indicate, so, thats 52 a year, and say 100 over 2 years, and you have seen 1 who's appeal worked, so that's what a 1 in 100 chance? That's what a bookie would call pretty long odds... 

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TheAP

Not all disciplinary actions are warnings, and most people don't appeal their warnings.

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G0D
5 minutes ago, TheAP said:

Not all disciplinary actions are warnings, and most people don't appeal their warnings.

wow really? Tell me, has anyone yet bothered to see how many people who get warnings and nudges go silent afterwards? IE they leave?

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